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JayTheTrekkie

Prey

Favorite Overall Trek Series/Movie  

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  1. 1. What is your overall favorite Star Trek series?

    • Star Trek: Enterprise
      16
    • Star Trek: The Original Series
      51
    • Star Trek: The Animated Series
      0
    • Star Trek: The Next Generation
      55
    • Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      50
    • Star Trek: Voyager
      34
  2. 2. What is your overall favorite Star Trek movie?

    • Star Trek - I: The Motion Picture
      10
    • Star Trek - II: The Wrath of Khan
      41
    • Star Trek - III: The Search for Spock
      7
    • Star Trek - IV: The Voyage Home
      22
    • Star Trek - V: The Final Frontier
      4
    • Star Trek - VI: The Undiscovered Country
      29
    • Star Trek - VII: Generations
      11
    • Star Trek - VIII: First Contact
      64
    • Star Trek - IX: Insurrection
      7
    • Star Trek - X: Nemesis
      11


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Title: Prey

Episode: Season 4, Episode 16

WRITTEN BY: Brannon Braga

DIRECTED BY: Allan Eastman

First Aired: Feb 18, 1998

Stardate: 51652.3

The Hirogen pursue a member of Species 8472 onto Voyager, where Janeway must decide whether to turn the deadly alien over to their mutual enemy or sacrifice it to save her crew.

............

Another Hirogen episode and return of a species 8472

This was a really good episode and Seven disobeyed an order near the end of the episode...bad idea

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I actually like the fact that seven disobeyed orders, I think it says a lot about her character and how she still hate species 8472 despite the fact that she is no longer Borg and that the Borg were actually the bad guys.

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Great ep, both for Species 8472 and Seven's actions in this, they were certainly expedient. It's odd the way Seven still feel loyal towards the Borg, but then, they were all the family she knew.

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I actually like the fact that seven disobeyed orders, I think it says a lot about her character and how she still hate species 8472 despite the fact that she is no longer Borg and that the Borg were actually the bad guys.

The confrontation between Seven and Janeway is one of my favorite moments of the entire series. Jeri Ryan did a fabulous job during this scene, as I absolutely loved her intensity.

--Captain Sisko

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A good episode. I don't agree with Janeway's reasoning here. She draws parallels between helping a wounded Cardassian and their situation with species 8472 being hunted by the Hirogen. Compassion has no chance of being reciprocated, as it might be with the Cardassians. I totally agree with Seven's reasoning and her decision to send 8472 to the Hirogen ship. 2 birds - 1 stone. 8472 was a menace, and if the Hirogen want it they can have it. Lots of action in this episode, with two of the more interesting alien races from Voyager's run.

8/10

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A five.

(and that's only because it had a lot of Seven in the story; the ending was a bulls#!t slap on the wrist).

Far better versions of this same tired 'turn over the injured alien' story were told on DS9 with "Captive Pursuit" and TNG with "I Borg."

And Species 8472 are just CGI crap. :thumbdown:

There's no physical thing there; just a special effect. I prefer my ST aliens to be of the 'makeup & costume' variety.

At least there's something there in the room for the actor to play against....

BTW, does anyone else think S8472 are a bit of a rip off of TAS' Lt. Arex (the three armed, three legged navigator)? :laugh:

923880-arex_large.jpg250px-Species8472.jpg

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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I disagree.

I love CGI aliens. Because these look like real aliens.

All other aliens in star trek are just humans with spot there, bump here ect...

Specie 8472 are real alien specie. Specie that looks and act like real alien. In my opinion maybe the best alien specie in star trek.

The best star trek would be in my opinion with alot of CGI alien species, that look like real aliens, not humans.

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these look like real aliens.

And what exactly do "real aliens" look like?

Have you seen one?

Don't ask, don't tell.... :P:laugh:

I don't care if Species Arex--er, 8472 look more 'alien' or not; they have no physicality.

They're about as 'realistic' as a 1990s Tomb Raider video game.

And Zef'No is right; NONE of us really know what an alien will look like... for now, anyway.

I just think that a human actor under latex makes them relatable. Something you can look in the eye and get a reading off of emotionally.

Species 8472just looks like pretty pixels rendered on my Mac.

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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A five.

(and that's only because it had a lot of Seven in the story; the ending was a bulls#!t slap on the wrist).

Far better versions of this same tired 'turn over the injured alien' story were told on DS9 with "Captive Pursuit" and TNG with "I Borg."

Captive Pursuit was OK for a 1st season DS9 episode, I'd still say 'Prey' was better.

'I Borg' I thought was a bit weak. Individuals were getting assimilated at Wolf 359, but they change the rules here and say they were only interested in assimilating whole species at a time. I think Hugh makes the transition to individual a little too easily, and his friendship with Geordi wasn't even addressed in the sixth season finale/seventh season opener.

And Species 8472 are just CGI crap. :thumbdown:

There's no physical thing there; just a special effect. I prefer my ST aliens to be of the 'makeup & costume' variety.

At least there's something there in the room for the actor to play against....

OK, and the Founder's species wasn't CGI crap? Sure, they were usually played by actors, but the transitions and the link? That goo was their natural state, they detested taking humanoid form. Who cares if there isn't actually anything there for the actors to see? Picard had to act with an imaginary view-screen all the time.

BTW, does anyone else think S8472 are a bit of a rip off of TAS' Lt. Arex (the three armed, three legged navigator)? :laugh:

Now that you mention it, yes, but it isn't the first time TAS has inspired stuff in 'canon' trek. A nice nod to TAS I'd say.

I don't care if Species Arex--er, 8472 look more 'alien' or not; they have no physicality.

They're about as 'realistic' as a 1990s Tomb Raider video game.

And Zef'No is right; NONE of us really know what an alien will look like... for now, anyway.

I just think that a human actor under latex makes them relatable. Something you can look in the eye and get a reading off of emotionally.

Species 8472just looks like pretty pixels rendered on my Mac.

Somehow I doubt that they would look like humans, with slight changes here or there like pointy things on their ears, tattoo like squiggles on their skin or forehead ridges.

This documentary had some interesting ideas though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNLfNe12BKE

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'I Borg' I thought was a bit weak. Individuals were getting assimilated at Wolf 359, but they change the rules here and say they were only interested in assimilating whole species at a time. I think Hugh makes the transition to individual a little too easily, and his friendship with Geordi wasn't even addressed in the sixth season finale/seventh season opener.

Beg to differ. It was very much addressed.

Watch "Descent part 2" again (I know; thats asking a lot... its not very good :P ). Geordi's welfare is the REASON Hugh decides to help the Enterprise crew defeat Lore. Hugh asks about his 'friend' Geordi and Riker replies he's been taken captive; hence Hugh's assistance.

OK, and the Founder's species wasn't CGI crap? Sure, they were usually played by actors, but the transitions and the link? That goo was their natural state, they detested taking humanoid form. Who cares if there isn't actually anything there for the actors to see? Picard had to act with an imaginary view-screen all the time.

Yes, the Founder's morphing FX weren't good, granted.

But when they were talking to another character, they weren't just FX. They were physical; there was something to give the actors an eyeline and a reaction! The FX were only when they were in a transitional state (no different than the transporter). That's the point. With Species Arex--er, 8472, there was NONE of that interaction or underlying humanity. And that's also of one of the points of ST; as far out into the universe as our characters go, they're always holding up a mirror to the human condition right here on spaceship Earth. ST is not about utopias or pretty special FX; it's about humanity in the here and now; it always has been. For that? You need aliens that are relatable on some human level... because they're supposed to be US.

Somehow I doubt that they would look like humans, with slight changes here or there like pointy things on their ears, tattoo like squiggles on their skin or forehead ridges.

Agreed; we will have more in common genetically with a tree than we will with true aliens that evolve on another planet.

But thats not the point; Star Trek is not PBS' Nova, or Carl Sagan's COSMOS. It's an entertainment. It's Gulliver's Travels for the space age. With aliens and different planets serving as allegories for all the rich diversity of human beings and cultures right here on Earth! That was the point. It was the original mission statement of the show; not to speculate on what aliens will look like; but to show our current petty problems and squabbles today against a futuristic cosmic arena backdrop....

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these look like real aliens.

And what exactly do "real aliens" look like?

Have you seen one?

Like aliens. Alien. Not like humans, like most of the species in star trek. I always disliked that.

these look like real aliens.

And what exactly do "real aliens" look like?

Have you seen one?

Don't ask, don't tell.... :P:laugh:

I don't care if Species Arex--er, 8472 look more 'alien' or not; they have no physicality.

They're about as 'realistic' as a 1990s Tomb Raider video game.

And Zef'No is right; NONE of us really know what an alien will look like... for now, anyway.

I just think that a human actor under latex makes them relatable. Something you can look in the eye and get a reading off of emotionally.

Species 8472just looks like pretty pixels rendered on my Mac.

That is the whole point. You can not read emotions of the aliens, because they are alien. They are strange, different.

They evolved differently, they whole structure, constitution is different, exotic. That is the whole point of something been alien.

To me actor under latex is not belivible. To me almost all aliens from star trek look like different races of humans, not like aliens.

Edited by Esmeralda

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To me actor under latex is not belivible.

None of Star Trek is believable. - It's not meant to be. It's fiction, not a documentary.

Warp drive, transporters, replicators, universal translators... it's all fiction. None of it will ever really exist, certainly not like we see it on TV anyway.

It's the same with aliens. - If there are any, they won't look like us, they won't talk like us, they won't breathe the same atmosphere, their proper nouns will not be easy to pronounce words from our mythology... but it doesn't matter!

If you want Star Trek to be realistic, it would be incredibly boring to watch. - Like watching those guys on the International space station or something like that.

In order to get some good drama, at some point you have to take a bit of artistic licence and suspend your disbelief.

So, I'm happy to see Troi on a "Romulan" ship speaking casually with someone called "Toreth" who is really a human in makeup. - That's an incredibly unrealistic scenario, but it's necessary in order to get a good story.

I would be more inclined to accept CGI if it was up to it, but on a 1990's TV budget, it clearly wasn't.

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these look like real aliens.

And what exactly do "real aliens" look like?

Have you seen one?

Like aliens. Alien. Not like humans, like most of the species in star trek. I always disliked that.

these look like real aliens.

And what exactly do "real aliens" look like?

Have you seen one?

Don't ask, don't tell.... :P:laugh:

I don't care if Species Arex--er, 8472 look more 'alien' or not; they have no physicality.

They're about as 'realistic' as a 1990s Tomb Raider video game.

And Zef'No is right; NONE of us really know what an alien will look like... for now, anyway.

I just think that a human actor under latex makes them relatable. Something you can look in the eye and get a reading off of emotionally.

Species 8472just looks like pretty pixels rendered on my Mac.

That is the whole point. You can not read emotions of the aliens, because they are alien. They are strange, different.

They evolved differently, they whole structure, constitution is different, exotic. That is the whole point of something been alien.

To me actor under latex is not belivible. To me almost all aliens from star trek look like different races of humans, not like aliens.

That's the point!

ST is not about aliens; its a metaphor for the different races and cultures we encounter on Earth. It's Gulliver's Travels, for goodness' sake.

tumblr_m9x2mxzAhq1ql07zs.gif

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Yes, the Founder's morphing FX weren't good, granted.

But when they were talking to another character, they weren't just FX. They were physical; there was something to give the actors an eyeline and a reaction! The FX were only when they were in a transitional state (no different than the transporter). That's the point. With Species Arex--er, 8472, there was NONE of that interaction or underlying humanity. And that's also of one of the points of ST; as far out into the universe as our characters go, they're always holding up a mirror to the human condition right here on spaceship Earth. ST is not about utopias or pretty special FX; it's about humanity in the here and now; it always has been. For that? You need aliens that are relatable on some human level... because they're supposed to be US.

If Roddenberry had current CGI/FX technology available to him when he was pitching TOS, I bet that we would have seen a lot more non-humanoid intelligent lifeforms. We saw hints of this in TAS, where animation freed him from those technical constraints. If you don't have an objection to Arex, why object to 8472? I disagree that he intended the aliens to be us.

He wasn't trying to say that the Klingons are in fact (nudge-nudge-wink-wink) Iron curtain Eastern Europeans/Russians, he was saying the Klingon Empire's interaction with Star Fleet was reminiscent of NATO's interaction with the Eastern Bloc. When TNG came around, he made their appearance more obviously different from humans. Sure, they tried to explain the similarities with 'The Chase' and the augmentation virus, but that was after Roddenberry's time.

The reason that a vast majority of intelligent alien species looked like actors wearing make-up and masks had little to do with metaphor and more to do with practical considerations. For him, it was about the exploration of humanity relating with aliens, and what that says about human development that was on the threshold of a higher tier (Farpoint anyone?). Sure, he presented contemporary concerns with a Trek spin on them, but the alien appearances were a matter of convenience.

8472 was an example of Star Trek innovating when they had the technology to do so, and it's a risk I'm glad they took. They took a risk with the Founder species too, but the fans didn't seem to mind. Do I care that humans weren't able to sit down and have a conversation with 8472 until they mimicked human form? Not really, in the first episodes they appeared in, they were supposed to be beastly and scary, not reasonable. They probably didn't have the proper vocal cords to mimic human speech anyway. Star Trek way too often falls into the 'park in space, talk it out and settle our differences' trap, often as a cost saving measure. (Model ship battles were costly) Voyager was alone in the middle of nowhere, having a species like 8472 was something they did right. It's too bad they ended up neutering that threat with diplomacy so easily.

Edited by Hammer

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Yes, the Founder's morphing FX weren't good, granted.

But when they were talking to another character, they weren't just FX. They were physical; there was something to give the actors an eyeline and a reaction! The FX were only when they were in a transitional state (no different than the transporter). That's the point. With Species Arex--er, 8472, there was NONE of that interaction or underlying humanity. And that's also of one of the points of ST; as far out into the universe as our characters go, they're always holding up a mirror to the human condition right here on spaceship Earth. ST is not about utopias or pretty special FX; it's about humanity in the here and now; it always has been. For that? You need aliens that are relatable on some human level... because they're supposed to be US.

If Roddenberry had current CGI/FX technology available to him when he was pitching TOS, I bet that we would have seen a lot more non-humanoid intelligent lifeforms. We saw hints of this in TAS, where animation freed him from those technical constraints. If you don't have an objection to Arex, why object to 8472? I disagree that he intended the aliens to be us.

Roddenberry had a memo (that I saw on a documentary about TOS; I think it was on the bonus features of the remastered sets) where he said he always wanted the aliens to have human eyes so that the audience could look into their soul, so to speak. He didn't always take his own advice (as the Horta and Gorn would testify), but that's what was alleged anyway...

As for Arex? I never said I actually LIKED Arex ( :P ).... I was using Arex as an example of something that 8472 ripped off, that's all. :giggle:

And at least Arex could speak...

And I'm sure that if TOS had the money & tech to make CGI aliens back in the day? Yes, they might have.

This is one of those times that I'm grateful that the best art thrives on restrictions. A lesson George Lucas failed to heed on the Star Wars prequel trilogy.

I would've liked a species that was capable of serving the Borg their bionic a$$es on a plate, but one that Janeway could've talked to; or at least had a physical relation with (as in, she could share actual physical space with; and not stare at a green stick with a ping-pong ball taped to it). Species 8472 just didn't work for me, simple as that....

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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tumblr_m9x2mxzAhq1ql07zs.gif

Ok I actually wanted to post mostly because of this .gif. This is one of the most hilarious I've ever seen and the best Sehlat Vie found. I couldn't stop laughing at your use of it. I think I find it so funny because I've felt this way so many times in discussions and debates...

Ok..I'm not going to derail this topic...

I'll give this episode a 6. Hirogen are cool and Seven of Nine was the star of the show and her episodes are usually good. Species 8472 looks terrible but I can forgive it. It's 90s CGI...outside of Jurassic Park...most CGI in that time was garbage.

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