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Tuvix

Favorite Overall Trek Series/Movie   199 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your overall favorite Star Trek series?

    • Star Trek: Enterprise
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  2. 2. What is your overall favorite Star Trek movie?

    • Star Trek - I: The Motion Picture
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37 posts in this topic

You're not wrong. They did live on in Tuvix, but it's not the same thing.

Their individual presences were gone.

One question would have to be what would Tuvok and Neelix want? Would they want to be merged together for the rest of their lives?

It's a very tough decision but I think that Janeway's duty was to the pre-accident officers.

Tuvix pleading for his life adds the the moral dilemma. But it also shows that he was a separate entity from Tuvok and Neelix. That's what made the decision so tough.

I do think Kirk would have split them in two as well. I can't with 100 percent certainty say what Picard and Sisko would do though I do lean toward Sisko splitting them as well.

MAYBE Picard considers keeping them together. But I don't know if he goes through with it. I think a captain has to take personal feelings out of it.

What would Spock do? He would attack the problem with logic. If you take emotion out of it, I think that the decision to split the two becomes easier. If Tuvix has a desire to live, and he's a mixture of Tuvok and Neelix, then logically, Tuvok and Neelix would want to live too.

You may have to weigh in the issue of who has the right to the body? Who owns it? When Janice Lester switched minds with Kirk, she didn't want to give the body back. Assuming it was an accident and not a criminal act, would she have a right to Kirk's body? I would say no.

I think that the body in question belonged to Tuvok and Neelix, and while the decision was horrible, it was the right one.

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You're not wrong. They did live on in Tuvix, but it's not the same thing.

Their individual presences were gone.

One question would have to be what would Tuvok and Neelix want? Would they want to be merged together for the rest of their lives?

That's just the point; their individual desires plus that of the combined organism, lived on through Tuvix. Their desires were merged; not destroyed.... big difference.

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You're not wrong. They did live on in Tuvix, but it's not the same thing.

Their individual presences were gone.

One question would have to be what would Tuvok and Neelix want? Would they want to be merged together for the rest of their lives?

That's just the point; their individual desires plus that of the combined organism, lived on through Tuvix. Their desires were merged; not destroyed.... big difference.

This. Add to that that the desire of both was to stay as they became (I believe he states so in the episode) and the crime's heinous nature goes up a notch.

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I'd have to watch the episode again, which in all honesty, isn't likely to happen soon.

But either way, a merged brain isn't the same as the two individuals. Tuvix was essentially Reeses Pieces, but Janeway had to decide if the chocolate and peanut butter were better off in separate jars.

She did not have the ability to really ask THEM and had to take Tuvix's word.

Again, long time since I saw it, but are you saying that Tuvok and Neelix said they would have been ok living merged after they were unmerged? Did they show memories of their time as Tuvix?

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I suffered through skimming bits of this episode, and no, the episode ends with them simply unmerged.

No, we don't have anything, but Tuvix's word, but I think that counts for something for the simple fact that he's alive and Tuvok and Neelix aren't. The kicker is that The Doctor wasn't entirely sure that the separation would work, so it's kill one with no guarantee that the other two would be restored.

In the face of that Janeway's choice was made simply because Kes cried and Janeway was always fond of the pixie.

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But Tuvix had motivation to lie about it. He wanted to live. Tuvok and Neelix had no advocate--they couldn't speak for themselves. So Janeway had to weigh her knowledge of them to make her decision.

Janeway was an idiot. She made a lot of stupid decisions. A LOT of stupid decisions.

I just don't think this was one of them.

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But Tuvix had motivation to lie about it. He wanted to live. Tuvok and Neelix had no advocate--they couldn't speak for themselves. So Janeway had to weigh her knowledge of them to make her decision.

Janeway was an idiot. She made a lot of stupid decisions. A LOT of stupid decisions.

I just don't think this was one of them.

What did Tuvix lie about? Wanting to live? I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have to fake that..

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But Tuvix had motivation to lie about it. He wanted to live. Tuvok and Neelix had no advocate--they couldn't speak for themselves. So Janeway had to weigh her knowledge of them to make her decision.

Janeway was an idiot. She made a lot of stupid decisions. A LOT of stupid decisions.

I just don't think this was one of them.

What did Tuvix lie about? Wanting to live? I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have to fake that..

Nope. He said as much. Further:

Tuvok and Neelix had no advocate--they couldn't speak for themselves.

My response is simply that dead people do not have rights of person to be protected. Tuvok is dead. Neelix is dead.

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But Tuvix had motivation to lie about it. He wanted to live. Tuvok and Neelix had no advocate--they couldn't speak for themselves. So Janeway had to weigh her knowledge of them to make her decision.

Janeway was an idiot. She made a lot of stupid decisions. A LOT of stupid decisions.

I just don't think this was one of them.

What did Tuvix lie about? Wanting to live? I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have to fake that..

Nope. He said as much. Further:

Tuvok and Neelix had no advocate--they couldn't speak for themselves.

My response is simply that dead people do not have rights of person to be protected. Tuvok is dead. Neelix is dead.

And yet in my view they both kind of 'live on' via Tuvix; who is also a unique (and protected) individual. He didn't ask to be given life, he (either of his disparate selves) didn't manipulate the transporter to make his existence possible.

To me, he should have had all the rights you'd grant a newborn child.

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But Tuvix had motivation to lie about it. He wanted to live. Tuvok and Neelix had no advocate--they couldn't speak for themselves. So Janeway had to weigh her knowledge of them to make her decision.

Janeway was an idiot. She made a lot of stupid decisions. A LOT of stupid decisions.

I just don't think this was one of them.

What did Tuvix lie about? Wanting to live? I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have to fake that..

Nope. He said as much. Further:

Tuvok and Neelix had no advocate--they couldn't speak for themselves.

My response is simply that dead people do not have rights of person to be protected. Tuvok is dead. Neelix is dead.

And yet in my view they both kind of 'live on' via Tuvix; who is also a unique (and protected) individual. He didn't ask to be given life, he (either of his disparate selves) didn't manipulate the transporter to make his existence possible.

To me, he should have had all the rights you'd grant a newborn child.

Exactly so. Tuvok and Neelix ceased to exist as individuals. They are gone and combined into this new being. It's this new being that's here and speaking out for his rights and in the end, literally begging to live.

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I just saw this episode for the first time and thought it was interesting and thought-provoking.  I don't actually know what the right thing to do here is; I could make good arguments for both sides.

I thought the guest star did a nice job showing us elements of both Tuvok and Neelix in his performance, and it was noteworthy how the weaknesses of each of them were balanced by the strengths of the other, such that Tuvix is actually more useful and more fun to have around than either one.  I wonder if either Tuvok or Neelix will think about this in the days ahead and modify their behavior any, or if this is just over and behind them.  I guess maybe Voyager is too episodic for this to have any effect, and that's a pity, because it would be great to see this have ramifications in the days to come.

I thought Kate Mulgrew was absolutely fantastic, especially in the final scene.  She's made her choice, and she's carried it out, but look at her face:  my god, that face!  Having to destroy one man to reclaim two others is a tragedy, and she clearly feels the full weight of that tragedy.  I don't know what Mulgrew was thinking that allowed her to give us that face, but geeze, she really nailed it there; she lets us know that it cost Janeway, bigtime, to make this decision and to carry it through.

If this is the kind of decision they have to make, I'm glad I'm not a starship captain; this is the kind of situation where there IS no good choice; there's only bad and worse.

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This was easily the most controversial episode of Voyager. The positive I take out of it was that the guest actor playing Tuvix puts in a memorable performance. You're right, they don't really seem to learn much from the episode. Although I would say that going forward, the relationship between Tuvok and Neelix went from mutual annoyance to mutual respect.

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