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Voyager

Caretaker

Favorite Overall Trek Series/Movie  

206 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your overall favorite Star Trek series?

    • Star Trek: Enterprise
      16
    • Star Trek: The Original Series
      51
    • Star Trek: The Animated Series
      0
    • Star Trek: The Next Generation
      55
    • Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
      50
    • Star Trek: Voyager
      34
  2. 2. What is your overall favorite Star Trek movie?

    • Star Trek - I: The Motion Picture
      10
    • Star Trek - II: The Wrath of Khan
      41
    • Star Trek - III: The Search for Spock
      7
    • Star Trek - IV: The Voyage Home
      22
    • Star Trek - V: The Final Frontier
      4
    • Star Trek - VI: The Undiscovered Country
      29
    • Star Trek - VII: Generations
      11
    • Star Trek - VIII: First Contact
      64
    • Star Trek - IX: Insurrection
      7
    • Star Trek - X: Nemesis
      11


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I just re-watched this episode. I'm not so sure anymore that Janeway could have maintained control of the array long enough to pull off a remote detonation trick. There was a battle going on for control of it when she blew it up.

 "Janeway to the Kazon fleet.I don't want the array, you do. Request an immediate truce to confer or I destroy it in ten seconds."

Guarantee that they stop. When they do, you lay it out. You want the array long enough to go home. After that you'll be gone and they can do what they want. If you can't use it, there's really no reason for anyone else to. They may want some of their own people on it while you're starting it up. Whatever. 

They'll agree because they want it and they can't destroy you before you destroy it.

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 "Janeway to the Kazon fleet.I don't want the array, you do. Request an immediate truce to confer or I destroy it in ten seconds."

Guarantee that they stop. When they do, you lay it out. You want the array long enough to go home. After that you'll be gone and they can do what they want. If you can't use it, there's really no reason for anyone else to. They may want some of their own people on it while you're starting it up. Whatever. 

They'll agree because they want it and they can't destroy you before you destroy it.

I'm not convinced that would have stopped the Kazon, either. It would have made sense for the Kazon to stand down, but they demonstrated time and again how untrustworthy they were. Even if they did stand down, I bet they would have just decided that the time Janeway needed to tinker with the array to get home would be a great opportunity to attack Voyager. I mean, they were pretty much street thugs in need of shampoo and conditioner. No amount of common sense was going to penetrate that thick, matted hair, let alone their thick skulls. 

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They couldn't let the Kazon gain control of the array. She couldn't just use it to go home and then leave it. She could have tried a time bomb, but that gives the Kazon a chance to disarm it once they left and before it detonated. All this also assumes that Voyager gains control of the array in the first place. The outcome of the battle was still in doubt.

After re-watching this, I am a bit surprised that the female caretaker, who this caretaker mentions had left a while ago, never comes up again in the series.

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The Kazon wanted the array badly enough that they would likely to have agreed to anything to start with and, knowing that, there really isn't any time to attack Voyager unless they could have destroyed her before she launched a few torpedoes which is unlikely.

Fact is Janeway could have bought enough time to at least explore other options, but she staked out a position without thinking, which is something she'd do for the next seven years.

Edited by prometheus59650

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You think the Kazon were smart enough to disarm the bomb? They couldn't even figure out, using warp-capable ships, they could easily find a world abundant in water...

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You think the Kazon were smart enough to disarm the bomb? They couldn't even figure out, using warp-capable ships, they could easily find a world abundant in water...

Not to mention water vapor could be extracted from any Earth-type planet's atmosphere, or even a comet (!).   Water is almost everywhere in the universe; it's even on our moon (in polar crater ice) and in stellar accretion disks.  There are several moons (and even an asteroid) in our solar system with subsurface oceans FULL of water ice.

Lack of water in the galaxy is one of the oldest (and most outdated) tropes in science fiction.  It needs to be put to bed sooner than later...

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The Kazon were just not the sharpest knives in the drawer. Or the brightest crayons in the box. And all of their crappy technology was stolen from the Trabe, so I highly doubt they even knew how to use it well enough to extract water vapor from an atmosphere.

After re-watching this, I am a bit surprised that the female caretaker, who this caretaker mentions had left a while ago, never comes up again in the series.

She did, in the second season episode "Cold Fire."

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The Kazon were just not the sharpest knives in the drawer. Or the brightest crayons in the box. And all of their crappy technology was stolen from the Trabe, so I highly doubt they even knew how to use it well enough to extract water vapor from an atmosphere.

After re-watching this, I am a bit surprised that the female caretaker, who this caretaker mentions had left a while ago, never comes up again in the series.

She did, in the second season episode "Cold Fire."

Whoops, I remembered parts of the episode without realizing she was in it. 

Also agreed, the Kazon were pretty thuggish and dumb. They were street gangs in space.

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Street gangs were literally the inspiration for the Kazon. I'm going to say that was probably a mistake. Though it was undoubtedly better than their second choice, which was to have each of the Kazon sects be an avant garde theater company.

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Street gangs were literally the inspiration for the Kazon. I'm going to say that was probably a mistake. Though it was undoubtedly better than their second choice, which was to have each of the Kazon sects be an avant garde theater company.

They looked like Klingons having bad hair days... 

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^^^ That.

 

They were terrible antagonists.

Agreed.  Among the worst bad guys in 'Trek's long history.

When it comes to Voyager I see a series with such promise, and it was just squandered away.  In Caretaker I think the episode could have been so much stronger had we seen Chakotay almost threatening violence to stop Janeway from taking away their only chance to get home, back to his war.  Ultimately the two just get along too well to be interesting.  In fact, everyone got along too well.

You know who would have been a better choice to play Janeway's XO?  Ro/Michelle Forbes.  But maybe the execs would have though that was too much woman for network television.

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A) Yeah, too many women in the command arena for it to fly

B) The show couldn't have survived. Ro would have chewed up and spit out Janeway, taken over within two weeks, and had Voyager home in six.

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^^^ That.

 

They were terrible antagonists.

Agreed.  Among the worst bad guys in 'Trek's long history.

When it comes to Voyager I see a series with such promise, and it was just squandered away.  In Caretaker I think the episode could have been so much stronger had we seen Chakotay almost threatening violence to stop Janeway from taking away their only chance to get home, back to his war.  Ultimately the two just get along too well to be interesting.  In fact, everyone got along too well.

You know who would have been a better choice to play Janeway's XO?  Ro/Michelle Forbes.  But maybe the execs would have though that was too much woman for network television.

Chakotay's character was mishandled throughout the series and it starts in the pilot. He is loyal to Janeway almost immediately. In the first episode after the pilot, he shuts down Seska's assurances that she is behind him if there is a coup. Pretty soon they all get along like it's the Enterprise-D and the Maquis even wear Starfleet uniforms when we were expecting Maquis vs Starfleet friction on top of being stranded on the far side of the galaxy. The Kazon were not a worthy opponent, so the worthy antagonist has to come from within the ship.

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^^^ That.

 

They were terrible antagonists.

Agreed.  Among the worst bad guys in 'Trek's long history.

When it comes to Voyager I see a series with such promise, and it was just squandered away.  In Caretaker I think the episode could have been so much stronger had we seen Chakotay almost threatening violence to stop Janeway from taking away their only chance to get home, back to his war.  Ultimately the two just get along too well to be interesting.  In fact, everyone got along too well.

You know who would have been a better choice to play Janeway's XO?  Ro/Michelle Forbes.  But maybe the execs would have though that was too much woman for network television.

Chakotay's character was mishandled throughout the series and it starts in the pilot. He is loyal to Janeway almost immediately. In the first episode after the pilot, he shuts down Seska's assurances that she is behind him if there is a coup. Pretty soon they all get along like it's the Enterprise-D and the Maquis even wear Starfleet uniforms when we were expecting Maquis vs Starfleet friction on top of being stranded on the far side of the galaxy. The Kazon were not a worthy opponent, so the worthy antagonist has to come from within the ship.

DS9 tackled the Maquis issue far better than VGR did, IMO... 

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^^^ That.

 

They were terrible antagonists.

Agreed.  Among the worst bad guys in 'Trek's long history.

When it comes to Voyager I see a series with such promise, and it was just squandered away.  In Caretaker I think the episode could have been so much stronger had we seen Chakotay almost threatening violence to stop Janeway from taking away their only chance to get home, back to his war.  Ultimately the two just get along too well to be interesting.  In fact, everyone got along too well.

You know who would have been a better choice to play Janeway's XO?  Ro/Michelle Forbes.  But maybe the execs would have though that was too much woman for network television.

Chakotay's character was mishandled throughout the series and it starts in the pilot. He is loyal to Janeway almost immediately. In the first episode after the pilot, he shuts down Seska's assurances that she is behind him if there is a coup. Pretty soon they all get along like it's the Enterprise-D and the Maquis even wear Starfleet uniforms when we were expecting Maquis vs Starfleet friction on top of being stranded on the far side of the galaxy. The Kazon were not a worthy opponent, so the worthy antagonist has to come from within the ship.

DS9 tackled the Maquis issue far better than VGR did, IMO... 

TNG handled the Maquis better than VGR did and they had them for like an episode. 

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^^^ That.

 

They were terrible antagonists.

Agreed.  Among the worst bad guys in 'Trek's long history.

When it comes to Voyager I see a series with such promise, and it was just squandered away.  In Caretaker I think the episode could have been so much stronger had we seen Chakotay almost threatening violence to stop Janeway from taking away their only chance to get home, back to his war.  Ultimately the two just get along too well to be interesting.  In fact, everyone got along too well.

You know who would have been a better choice to play Janeway's XO?  Ro/Michelle Forbes.  But maybe the execs would have though that was too much woman for network television.

Chakotay's character was mishandled throughout the series and it starts in the pilot. He is loyal to Janeway almost immediately. In the first episode after the pilot, he shuts down Seska's assurances that she is behind him if there is a coup. Pretty soon they all get along like it's the Enterprise-D and the Maquis even wear Starfleet uniforms when we were expecting Maquis vs Starfleet friction on top of being stranded on the far side of the galaxy. The Kazon were not a worthy opponent, so the worthy antagonist has to come from within the ship.

DS9 tackled the Maquis issue far better than VGR did, IMO... 

TNG handled the Maquis better than VGR did and they had them for like an episode. 

^^^ That.

 

They were terrible antagonists.

Agreed.  Among the worst bad guys in 'Trek's long history.

When it comes to Voyager I see a series with such promise, and it was just squandered away.  In Caretaker I think the episode could have been so much stronger had we seen Chakotay almost threatening violence to stop Janeway from taking away their only chance to get home, back to his war.  Ultimately the two just get along too well to be interesting.  In fact, everyone got along too well.

You know who would have been a better choice to play Janeway's XO?  Ro/Michelle Forbes.  But maybe the execs would have though that was too much woman for network television.

Chakotay's character was mishandled throughout the series and it starts in the pilot. He is loyal to Janeway almost immediately. In the first episode after the pilot, he shuts down Seska's assurances that she is behind him if there is a coup. Pretty soon they all get along like it's the Enterprise-D and the Maquis even wear Starfleet uniforms when we were expecting Maquis vs Starfleet friction on top of being stranded on the far side of the galaxy. The Kazon were not a worthy opponent, so the worthy antagonist has to come from within the ship.

DS9 tackled the Maquis issue far better than VGR did, IMO... 

The Maquis angle is all but forgotten, especially after Seska betrays them, until they happen upon the Hirogen network in Season 4 'Hunters'. B'lanna gets the news that the Maquis were all either locked up or dead and has a meltdown but that's it. There's no blowback for Voyager's Maquis to the news. Later Barclay develops some kind of micro-wormhole method to open up comms regularly with Voyager, but for most of the series they were isolated from Alpha Quadrant events. 

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The utter lack of continuity was one of Voyager's biggest problems, especially when it came to the Maquis. I mean, what's the point of having them aboard if there aren't any lasting consequences? They should have been a constant thorn in Janeway's side, especially in the beginning. But instead, we only get them when it's convenient for the story; the rest of the time they function as perfect Starfleet officers.

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