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The Founder

Star Wars: Solo

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1 hour ago, kenman said:

And that big ol' bag of money.  I wonder if it was the same amount they plopped in Nimoy's lap to have him skype in for his bored scene in Into Darkness after he said he wanted ot be done forever. 

It paid for some grandchild’s college education, no doubt. 

Edited by Robin Bland

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8 hours ago, kenman said:

And that big ol' bag of money.  I wonder if it was the same amount they plopped in Nimoy's lap to have him skype in for his bored scene in Into Darkness after he said he wanted ot be done forever. 

I love Nimoy, but I absolutely HATED the Spock Skype...

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24 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I love Nimoy, but I absolutely HATED the Spock Skype...

It was the worst way for him to go out with that iconic character.  He seems like he doesn't give the tiniest of craps, it seems like it was shot in his living room, the scene itself is pointless to the story the movie is telling, and it just seems like they gave him a solid final line in the previous film, and this just undermines that.  At least his death was handled with some class in Beyond.

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1 hour ago, kenman said:

It was the worst way for him to go out with that iconic character.  He seems like he doesn't give the tiniest of craps, it seems like it was shot in his living room, the scene itself is pointless to the story the movie is telling, and it just seems like they gave him a solid final line in the previous film, and this just undermines that.  At least his death was handled with some class in Beyond.

I prefer to think of ST09 as his last ‘real’ ST film and STB was his tribute.  STID just doesn’t count for me; it was meaningless and insincere.

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22 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I prefer to think of ST09 as his last ‘real’ ST film and STB was his tribute.  STID just doesn’t count for me; it was meaningless and insincere.

STID doesn't count for me in oh so many ways. Even as a completist I don't own it.  I have 09 and Beyond, I just skipped over Into Darkness completely.

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16 minutes ago, kenman said:

STID doesn't count for me in oh so many ways. Even as a completist I don't own it.  I have 09 and Beyond, I just skipped over Into Darkness completely.

Totally understand that. 

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On 2/9/2018 at 9:39 PM, Sehlat Vie said:

I prefer to think of ST09 as his last ‘real’ ST film and STB was his tribute.  STID just doesn’t count for me; it was meaningless and insincere.

It was LITERALLY nothing.

So Spock needs Spock to tell him that Khan is dangerous and willl stop at nothing?

Did anything that happened up until then still leave things so up in the air that he needed to take time out in a crisis to find out for sure?

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3 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

It was LITERALLY nothing.

So Spock needs Spock to tell him that Khan is dangerous and willl stop at nothing?

Did anything that happened up until then still leave things so up in the air that he needed to take time out in a crisis to find out for sure?

Also does Spock call him each time they encounter something to see what his alternate self's take is?

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53 minutes ago, kenman said:

Also does Spock call him each time they encounter something to see what his alternate self's take is?

Quite a crutch that would be.

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21 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

Quite a crutch that would be.

Kelvin Spock: Yea I wanted to know if you guys ever discovered this giant doomsday machine floating in space?

Prime Spock: look we figured it out can't you?

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Do Star Wars fans want the new Han Solo movie to flop? I don't know. I take issue with such a title. Here's what I know as an 'oldie': as a fan of scifi/fantasy/etc... movies I loved Star Wars. There's a ton of reasons to like those movies. That there were only the initial trilogy made fans cherish it even more. Star Trek was there as my standby 'fix' since there were movies every couple of years and then TNG started. 

This brings up the point of saturation. Again, something that made SW special was that there wasn't this overflooded market of media back then. Oh, there were toys, comic books, novels, but not the cinematic media. The prequels overall left a bad taste in most fans mouth. We can argue over and over about them but generally most people feel that they were under par. And that's with a lot of excitement about them. 

Cut to present day and there are plans for pumping out a Star Wars movie every year. Will there be a good story presented? Who knows. We can debate the quality of these 3 newer films but they aren't the 'home run' that fans were expecting. What I do know is that any corporation wants new product for the masses to consume(clothes, cars, smartphones, etc..). Quality of such a product is irrelevant(see DCU movies) as long as someone at the top makes a boatload of cash. 

I think this is something that fans are reacting to. The artistic aspect of making a movie to further a story seems to have taken a back seat to simple profiteering. Fans are tired of handing out cash for something mediocre. 

I don't want Solo to fail. But I also don't care about it. 

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I can't say I care enough that I am putting much energy into Solo...but I do wish they'd find a more organic way of making blockbusters or franchise films. It al feels so boardroom right now, that I can't care. The alleged point of the standalone films is to show what an expansive universe Star Wars has...but so far all of their ideas are just expanding on something we already know.  It's taking the original opening crawl and expanding into a big fan service mess. It is taking Han Solo and giving us his origins. It is the possibility of more Obi Wan Kenobi.  So far it all just makes this universe look smaller to me. 

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1 hour ago, kenman said:

I can't say I care enough that I am putting much energy into Solo...but I do wish they'd find a more organic way of making blockbusters or franchise films. It al feels so boardroom right now, that I can't care. The alleged point of the standalone films is to show what an expansive universe Star Wars has...but so far all of their ideas are just expanding on something we already know.  It's taking the original opening crawl and expanding into a big fan service mess. It is taking Han Solo and giving us his origins. It is the possibility of more Obi Wan Kenobi.  So far it all just makes this universe look smaller to me. 

It is. All they're doing is expanding on what's already there when most people don't seem all that thrilled about it to begin with.

Hell, you like the Han Solo theme of redemption? Make a movie of some assassin in Boba Fett's guild that decides they can't do it anymore and joins the rebellion as a covert operative. Or maybe they just help people. It's a new take on the old theme, you can throw the Fett fans a cameo, and you take a chance of creating some badass NEW character that people like instead of just wringing the cash out of what's already there.

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6 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

It is. All they're doing is expanding on what's already there when most people don't seem all that thrilled about it to begin with.

Hell, you like the Han Solo theme of redemption? Make a movie of some assassin in Boba Fett's guild that decides they can't do it anymore and joins the rebellion as a covert operative. Or maybe they just help people. It's a new take on the old theme, you can throw the Fett fans a cameo, and you take a chance of creating some badass NEW character that people like instead of just wringing the cash out of what's already there.

I just miss the days when SW movies were events.  :(

Now they’re not all that different from Marvel produc---er, movies.  I mean, I can hope/wish that they succeed, and I do hope that Han Solo succeeds, but all the same... I miss the days when my imagination could fill in some of the blanks for myself.  

To riff on what kenman said upthread, it really did make the universe seem ‘bigger’ when I didn’t definitively know just how everything connected in the SW universe. 

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The thing is, I think if you really want them to go new places with the franchise, then you kind of need Solo to not be a he success, because a huge success just keeps the machine going.  Even though to me it was just taking some event that we knew enough about and expanded it pointlessly, you can argue that Rogue One at least had new players involved.  So if that is the more successful of these ventures, it should push them into trying new things rather than rehash the same ol same ol. 

But if everyone has brand loyalty to this quick diminishing franchise, then they won't take risks, they will keep shoveling the same ol garbage we've seen before over and over and it won't show signs of stopping. If you love it, set it free. If you don't really want to see the franchise become this, you just have to stop paying for it. 

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12 minutes ago, kenman said:

The thing is, I think if you really want them to go new places with the franchise, then you kind of need Solo to not be a he success, because a huge success just keeps the machine going. 

Pretty much this. 

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12 minutes ago, kenman said:

But if everyone has brand loyalty to this quick diminishing franchise, then they won't take risks, they will keep shoveling the same ol garbage we've seen before over and over and it won't show signs of stopping. If you love it, set it free. If you don't really want to see the franchise become this, you just have to stop paying for it. 

And then, perversely, you go to a place where you just blindly hate something with no awareness of it whatsoever.  I don’t want to be that guy.   And I have too much affection for Star Wars to just ignore it on principle.  

I saw “The Last Jedi” only once; no repeat business (I even went to each of the prequels more than once).   

That’s my preferred way of voting with my wallet for a franchise I otherwise enjoy.  I actually liked Rogue One a great deal, and Solo promises new characters as well, so it could work.  

I guess I come from a different place, because I want it to succeed. 

 

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1 minute ago, Sehlat Vie said:

And then, perversely, you go to a place where you just blindly hate something with no awareness of it whatsoever.  I don’t want to be that guy.   And I have too much affection for Star Wars to just ignore it on principle.  

I saw “The Last Jedi” only once; no repeat business (I even went to each of the prequels more than once).   

That’s my preferred way of voting with my wallet for a franchise I otherwise enjoy.  I actually liked Rogue One a great deal, and Solo promises new characters as well, so it could work.  

I guess I come from a different place, because I want it to succeed. 

 

Well, I'd want it to succeed if it's good, not by some sort of default because $1B worth of revenue will rush to Star Wars: Ewok Imperial Troopers because "Star Wars."

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1 minute ago, prometheus59650 said:

Well, I'd want it to succeed if it's good, not by some sort of default because $1B worth of revenue will rush to Star Wars: Ewok Imperial Troopers because "Star Wars."

^
Yes, and of course, I feel the same.  That’s the reason I only did TLJ once.  

I had to see it to sate my own SW fan curiosity, but it disappointed me so much that I didn’t feel a desire to see it again just for the sake of the Star Wars brand name.  

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I don't want Solo to fail and I think most fans don't want that either (even most of the critics). I think, however, there are those that want a message to be sent that these movies should be approached with much more care instead of making them yearly Transformer movies. So I don't think supporting this movie failing is a good idea, but if it's a success then Disney will think this is the direction they should keep going. It's a Catch 22 - either harm the SW brand by causing the movies to fail or let it continue to success with mediocrity (or terribleness with TLJ).

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18 minutes ago, The Founder said:

I don't want Solo to fail and I think most fans don't want that either (even most of the critics). I think, however, there are those that want a message to be sent that these movies should be approached with much more care instead of making them yearly Transformer movies. So I don't think supporting this movie failing is a good idea, but if it's a success then Disney will think this is the direction they should keep going. It's a Catch 22 - either harm the SW brand by causing the movies to fail or let it continue to success with mediocrity (or terribleness with TLJ).

^
Once again, the Founder is wise in all things.   It really IS a Catch-22, isn’t it? :confused:

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It is not a default of hating something...it's just seeing beyond the brand "Star Wars" and just looking at what the film seems to be.  The point of the trailers and marketing is to entice one to see a movie.  To me the marketing, though not much thus far, has only reinforced that the movie isn't going to surprise much. They'll show him do some early smuggling or heisting, the kessell run, gambling with Lando, Falcon, Chewie, blah blah blah...it looks exactly like what I thought it was going to be.  It looks pointless. Why should I pay to see something that looks pointless because I'd hate for Star Wars to finally take one hit.  If this movie fails, they will just change directions a bit, they aren't going to end the franchise.  The franchise is going to be run into the ground with a movie every year anyhow...if this movie doesn't succeed?  It isn't going to end Star Wars, just possibly slow down their input.  Is that a bad thing?

Again, in most ways I am indifferent to the movie. I am not rooting for failure.  But I do think success is possibly worse for the franchise than it's failure.  Because even if it is a solid movie, even a great one (which I severely doubt), they are still going to take few chances.  If you miss when Star Wars was an event, you can't blame them when you are a guarantee ticket for anything in the series.

Not that any of this matters...the movie will probably do just fine and people will be underwhelmed, others will vehemently defend it, others will despise it..and Star Wars will stay the course for years and years and people will say they'd NOT back Admiral Ackbar: The Early Years but then everyone will still just stay caught in the trap. 

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52 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

^
Once again, the Founder is wise in all things.   It really IS a Catch-22, isn’t it? :confused:

Sadly, yes :/

40 minutes ago, kenman said:

It is not a default of hating something...it's just seeing beyond the brand "Star Wars" and just looking at what the film seems to be.  The point of the trailers and marketing is to entice one to see a movie.  To me the marketing, though not much thus far, has only reinforced that the movie isn't going to surprise much. They'll show him do some early smuggling or heisting, the kessell run, gambling with Lando, Falcon, Chewie, blah blah blah...it looks exactly like what I thought it was going to be.  It looks pointless. Why should I pay to see something that looks pointless because I'd hate for Star Wars to finally take one hit.  If this movie fails, they will just change directions a bit, they aren't going to end the franchise.  The franchise is going to be run into the ground with a movie every year anyhow...if this movie doesn't succeed?  It isn't going to end Star Wars, just possibly slow down their input.  Is that a bad thing?

Again, in most ways I am indifferent to the movie. I am not rooting for failure.  But I do think success is possibly worse for the franchise than it's failure.  Because even if it is a solid movie, even a great one (which I severely doubt), they are still going to take few chances.  If you miss when Star Wars was an event, you can't blame them when you are a guarantee ticket for anything in the series.

Not that any of this matters...the movie will probably do just fine and people will be underwhelmed, others will vehemently defend it, others will despise it..and Star Wars will stay the course for years and years and people will say they'd NOT back Admiral Ackbar: The Early Years but then everyone will still just stay caught in the trap. 

I didn't say that this will destroy the franchise. If the prequels didn't - nothing will. Star Wars will always survive.

But if backlash after backlash after backlash continues - then it could negatively impact the future of Star Wars as movies. The same way the big wigs behind DC movieverse has people wanting to walk back this franchise. It isn't getting the love they thought it would. It's still getting money, of course, but will always be told "You're no Marvel". That is an impact. Same with these new Star Wars movies constantly being told "You're not original trilogy".

I don't want Star Wars to be "an event". In fact, I was so excited at the idea of a new trilogy, spin off films, and a possible t.v. show. I want to be over saturated with Star Wars. But I want GOOD Star Wars. Not garbage.

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