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Maltz

The Federation-Klingon War in 2257 (SPOILERS)

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I think in a story there is plot and setting. I really don't care all that much about changes in setting, like the clothes they wear or the technology up to a point.  But the plot I care about much more. Sarek was a decent version of a younger Sarek until the last episode. 

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5 hours ago, scenario said:

I think in a story there is plot and setting. I really don't care all that much about changes in setting, like the clothes they wear or the technology up to a point.  But the plot I care about much more. Sarek was a decent version of a younger Sarek until the last episode. 

Same.

I was going along with his being on diplomatic missions, though his ‘advice’ to Burnham in “Battle of...”  seemed out of character for Vulcans in general; at least the pacifist Vulcans of the 2200s.  However, I swallowed it, because they hadn’t always been so peaceful (as Archer’s crew realized). 

But his ‘boarding party duty’ in “The War...” seemed like the writers almost forgot who they were writing for; I could’ve seen Tim Russ’ Tuvok doing those earlier scenes more naturally than Frain’s Sarek (again, not a slight to the actor; but to how the character was written).

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8 hours ago, scenario said:

I think in a story there is plot and setting. I really don't care all that much about changes in setting, like the clothes they wear or the technology up to a point.  But the plot I care about much more. Sarek was a decent version of a younger Sarek until the last episode. 

I get why some don't like the mind meld. I was ok with it. The whole sequence really conveyed the desperate straits Starfleet is in. Considering that Sarek and Cornwell were desperate. From their point of view, there was a more than 50/50 chance that was not actually Saru but some kind of Klingon trick. Plus, the writers clearly did not want to spend a scene explaining all the MU stuff that the audience already knew. You might say it was the only logical solution.  

I suppose Sarek could have asked Saru for permission to mindmeld. And Saru did not protest in the same way Valaris did. 

If you thought the mindmeld was a blemish on his character, we are probably in for a shock when we find out the Emperor's plan for Kronos that Sarek convinced the Federation Council to accept.  

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On 2/10/2018 at 8:38 PM, Justin Snead said:

There's the rub! The POINT is allowing new creative energy to flow. If the show runners set a mandate that there must be perfect, slavish alignment to creative decisions that were made in 1964(!), that line of thinking must necessarily affect everything and not just the uniforms. If you're the show-runner and you actually believe (as Abrams apparently did), if you just give the fans the same uniforms they won't eat us alive, then you are going down a dangerous road. Too many potentially great stories will be tossed out because "Oh, Kirk would definitely mentioned THAT in that one episode!" The costume designer, Gersha Phillips, on DSC is a very innovative person and has been getting some well deserved online promotion for her good work. Her mirror universe costumes are excellent, inspired by "Mirror, Mirror" but she was not told by her boss that she can only create costumes that exactly match that episode. Good. The daggers are the same and the gold is there, but otherwise let's see something new. Same with the regular uniforms. There are so many in-universe explanations. 1) DSC will probably have TOS style uniforms by the end. 2) There is a familiar feel connecting the DSC and the film era uniforms. 3) During the TNG-DS9 years, Starfleet had at least two different styles of uniforms. 4) Maybe the TOS uniforms were the casual wear era of Starfleet? 5) The clothes are JUST NOT THAT important.         

In my view, the show runners have found a perfect balance of charting new creative storytelling and visual imagery, while respecting what came before. But that is just me.  

You won't get "new creative energy to flow" by creating a prequel. A prequel that is not a reboot. A prequel that is, by their own words, in the prime universe. That is the "trade off" of doing a prequel and it's sad that after ENT they didn't learn that lesson.

A good writer can navigate this and have continuity to what came before (not asking for perfect, slavish alignment).

In regards to the uniforms - I'm not asking for perfect alignment to the uniforms. The point I was making was the criticism that the old Star Trek is too archaic and silly looking to "modernize". We have to start from scratch.

Abrams' visuals proved that is garbage.

The last episode of DSC season 1 showed a perfect Enterprise. One that looks like an updated of the original. Hell - I'd argue it looks better than the Abrams' version. It can be done. It's not because they want to do a reboot without admitting it.

On 2/10/2018 at 8:43 PM, scenario said:

The uniforms bother me the least. Go google uniforms of the U.S. Navy (or any other country with a navy). The first page had a half a dozen different types of uniforms. The Enterprise and the Discovery are different type ships on different type missions. It's not unreasonable that they have different type uniforms. Ships built to be long distance explorer/military/science vessels have one type of uniform but experimental science vessels have a different one. It's like the navy vs the coast guard or the special forces vs a regular sailor but both under Starfleet Command. 

Look at the pictures for the British army. At any one time they had lots of different type uniforms. Desert uniforms were greyish. Jungle uniforms were greenish. The uniforms changed because of its purpose. 

The technology is annoying but I think that's more a problem of today's technology rather than Trek technology. TOS technology looked really advanced in a time when there were no cell phones, computers took up a whole room and cost $10,000 a month to rent, and things like touch screens weren't even thought of yet. The tech difference between 1967 and 2018 is bigger than the tech difference between Enterprise and Voyager. There really is no way to do it right. 

I read a lot of science fiction. Every once in a while, I pull out a book written in the fifties. It's pretty common to read something like this set on a spaceship 300 years in the future, "Oh darn, a vacuum tube just blew out. Go replace it Iernfmei." Most people much younger then me don't even remember vacuum tubes. They stopped using them when I was a kid. The stories were sometimes pretty good but if you made a movie and showed an actual vacuum tube, people would laugh.  

I'm not bothered by the uniforms. I am saying that the argument that the uniforms, technology, ships, etc. cannot be modernized because they would be laughed off screen is not true. It can be done. It has been done by both DSC and Abrams.

There is a choice being made to not even try. This choice will always be a detriment to some corner of fans. It is so peculiar that DSC can get some upgrades so right (The Enterprise and the Tellarites are examples of updates) but yet get some so horribly wrong (the Klingons).

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16 minutes ago, The Founder said:

You won't get "new creative energy to flow" by creating a prequel. A prequel that is not a reboot. A prequel that is, by their own words, in the prime universe. That is the "trade off" of doing a prequel and it's sad that after ENT they didn't learn that lesson.

A good writer can navigate this and have continuity to what came before (not asking for perfect, slavish alignment).

In regards to the uniforms - I'm not asking for perfect alignment to the uniforms. The point I was making was the criticism that the old Star Trek is too archaic and silly looking to "modernize". We have to start from scratch.

Abrams' visuals proved that is garbage.

The last episode of DSC season 1 showed a perfect Enterprise. One that looks like an updated of the original. Hell - I'd argue it looks better than the Abrams' version. It can be done. It's not because they want to do a reboot without admitting it.

I'm not bothered by the uniforms. I am saying that the argument that the uniforms, technology, ships, etc. cannot be modernized because they would be laughed off screen is not true. It can be done. It has been done by both DSC and Abrams.

There is a choice being made to not even try. This choice will always be a detriment to some corner of fans. It is so peculiar that DSC can get some upgrades so right (The Enterprise and the Tellarites are examples of updates) but yet get some so horribly wrong (the Klingons).

The uniforms may be fixed when we see the uniforms on the Enterprise. I see no reason why the crew of the Enterprise and Discovery have to have the same uniforms. The Klingons I'm not going to argue about. They could have simply modified the NG ones. Making the Klingons look so different doesn't make any sense. 

My problem is with the storyline. I've got no problem with the spore drive. It was a technology that was considered dangerous and they couldn't duplicate it so it was hidden. But an entire war just kind of disappears into history doesn't make much sense to me. 

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