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prometheus59650

Episode 1.13 "What's Past is Prologue" Discussion Thread

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Does anyone think that the mirror Lorca might actually be the prime Lorca, still? That'd be a twist on a twist. I'm not saying that I think that, just that it could happen. All he'd have to have done is looked up the mirror Lorca, pretended like he knew who Ava was and who worked with the mirror Lorca. It's still possible. Obviously, highly unlikely.

Edited by Enterprise Discovery

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52 minutes ago, scenario said:

He might win and become the new emperor. We don't know the emperor was in TOS.

I just want "A" Lorca back with Discovery, and I kinda don't care who. :)

1 minute ago, Enterprise Discovery said:

Does anyone think that the mirror Lorca might actually be the prime Lorca, still? That'd be a twist on a twist.

Not me anyway.

I suspect the original Lorca went down with his ship.

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2 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

I just want "A" Lorca back with Discovery, and I kinda don't care who. :)

Not me anyway.

I suspect the original Lorca went down with his ship.

Agreed, Lorca is too interesting a character to write out of the show. Many of the characters are too interesting to write out. For me, it's like the other Star Trek TV series and films. Great casts who portray great characters and it'd be sad to see them leave the series.

I feel like the mirror Lorca is the mirror Lorca, but I'm just thinking of the possibilities. There are a great many.

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1 hour ago, Enterprise Discovery said:

Agreed, Lorca is too interesting a character to write out of the show. Many of the characters are too interesting to write out. For me, it's like the other Star Trek TV series and films. Great casts who portray great characters and it'd be sad to see them leave the series.

I feel like the mirror Lorca is the mirror Lorca, but I'm just thinking of the possibilities. There are a great many.

The only reason that I wouldn't mind if they write a character out of the show at this point is if the actor wants to leave. On other shows, actors playing aliens have left because they have developed an allergy to the makeup. In cases like that, I'd rather see them write out the character than recast.

In a way, I'd like to see some turnover in the cast after a few years. Slowly turn a regular character into a recurring character and introduce a new one. Or kill off a character if the actor wants to leave. A slow churn of characters can keep a show fresh. But you really don't need character churn until a few years down the line when the writers start running out of ideas. 

Maybe Riker should have gotten his own ship after year 5 or so. Then have them as sister ships patrolling the same area of space so Riker could show up in many of the episodes. This would have given an opportunity for new characters. It would have been an easy way to introduce a gay character. Have one of Rikers officers show up with their same sex spouse at a dinner or something and don't even mention it beyond a quick introduction.  

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23 minutes ago, scenario said:

Maybe Riker should have gotten his own ship after year 5 or so.

Fact is, Riker should have been told after BoBW, "We're down 11,000 people and 40 experienced Captains, so we don't particularly care if the Enterprise is where all your friends are, you will accept a command or resign."

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1 hour ago, scenario said:

The only reason that I wouldn't mind if they write a character out of the show at this point is if the actor wants to leave. On other shows, actors playing aliens have left because they have developed an allergy to the makeup. In cases like that, I'd rather see them write out the character than recast.

In a way, I'd like to see some turnover in the cast after a few years. Slowly turn a regular character into a recurring character and introduce a new one. Or kill off a character if the actor wants to leave. A slow churn of characters can keep a show fresh. But you really don't need character churn until a few years down the line when the writers start running out of ideas. 

Maybe Riker should have gotten his own ship after year 5 or so. Then have them as sister ships patrolling the same area of space so Riker could show up in many of the episodes. This would have given an opportunity for new characters. It would have been an easy way to introduce a gay character. Have one of Rikers officers show up with their same sex spouse at a dinner or something and don't even mention it beyond a quick introduction.  

 

1 hour ago, prometheus59650 said:

Fact is, Riker should have been told after BoBW, "We're down 11,000 people and 40 experienced Captains, so we don't particularly care if the Enterprise is where all your friends are, you will accept a command or resign."

There are so many moments in the history of the Star Trek franchise where different stories could have happened, that didn't. That's another reason to be thankful for a new series. New stories, new characters, new classic moments and a way to now have moments on Star Trek: Discovery that could've happened, but didn't, on other TV series and films.

Also, Riker, could've even had his own series, if he had taken command of another ship. They did do Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager, after all.

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2 minutes ago, Enterprise Discovery said:

 

There are so many moments in the history of the Star Trek franchise where different stories could have happened, that didn't. That's another reason to be thankful for a new series. New stories, new characters, new classic moments and a way to now have moments on Star Trek: Discovery that could've happened, but didn't, on other TV series and films.

Also, Riker, could've even had his own series, if he had taken command of another ship. They did do Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager, after all.

They could have had stories where the Enterprise calls for help and since Rikers ship is his sisters ship they are coming to help meeting all sorts of stories along the way. Enterprise the A story and Rikers ship the B story. People could transfer. A minor character fan favorite could be bridge crew on Rikers ship, etc. 

In Discovery, you could have two storylines going that overlap a few episodes down. 10 minutes of the episode is dedicated to the B ship with someone from Discovery in command. 

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3 hours ago, Enterprise Discovery said:

Agreed, Lorca is too interesting a character to write out of the show. Many of the characters are too interesting to write out. For me, it's like the other Star Trek TV series and films. Great casts who portray great characters and it'd be sad to see them leave the series.

I feel like the mirror Lorca is the mirror Lorca, but I'm just thinking of the possibilities. There are a great many.

While it will be sad to see Lorca go,  I’m confident the show will still be interesting and well worth watching without him.  I remember the end of the first season of Game of Thrones.  I did not think I could keep watching the show with the death of my favorite character, yet here I am dying to see season 7.

Frankly, I enjoy the drama of killing major characters.  As much as I love love love Jean-Luc Picard, I fantasize about how TNG would have gone if they killed Picard in “Best of Both Worlds, part 2.”  It’s one area where I think to be more modern, Star Trek: Discovery has to go there and let Lorca die.  It would also be more powerful if they never find Prime Lorca, that he went down with his ship like a good captain would.  

As an aside, It never made sense to me that Mirror Lorca escaped yet destroyed his own ship to “save” his crew and that Starfleet was just fine with that.  He couldn’t save any of them!  Not even grab an ensign to join him in the escape pod!!  Unbelievable.  I’d imagine there would be a court martial.

As for the rest of the season, part of me wonders if Lorca will kill Georgiou and Burnham will kill Lorca, and suddenly she will be recognized as emperor?  That would be kind of a WTF moment.

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18 minutes ago, Locutus said:

While it will be sad to see Lorca go,  I’m confident the show will still be interesting and well worth watching without him.  I remember the end of the first season of Game of Thrones.  I did not think I could keep watching the show with the death of my favorite character, yet here I am dying to see season 7.

Frankly, I enjoy the drama of killing major characters.  As much as I love love love Jean-Luc Picard, I fantasize about how TNG would have gone if they killed Picard in “Best of Both Worlds, part 2.”  It’s one area where I think to be more modern, Star Trek: Discovery has to go there and let Lorca die.  It would also be more powerful if they never find Prime Lorca, that he went down with his ship like a good captain would.  

As an aside, It never made sense to me that Mirror Lorca escaped yet destroyed his own ship to “save” his crew and that Starfleet was just fine with that.  He couldn’t save any of them!  Not even grab an ensign to join him in the escape pod!!  Unbelievable.  I’d imagine there would be a court martial.

As for the rest of the season, part of me wonders if Lorca will kill Georgiou and Burnham will kill Lorca, and suddenly she will be recognized as emperor?  That would be kind of a WTF moment.

Who knows where this story could go? So many different possibilities. As for the series continuing without Lorca, it would be sad to see a great character go, but I at least want them to mention that prime Lorca is out there on his own ship, so that the character still continues and would have the possibility of returning to the series, even if only in a guest role.

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Oh, sweet Lorca, that was good.

Isaacs will never het a better death scene and Michelle Yeoh's still got it and some to spare.

It's a lovely twist (and no small irony) that it looks to be Emperor Georgiou's casual brutality that may well bring an end to the war.

 

This show has really become something.

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7 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

Oh, sweet Lorca, that was good.

Isaacs will never het a better death scene and Michelle Yeoh's still got it and some to spare.

It's a lovely twist (and no small irony) that it looks to be Emperor Georgiou's casual brutality that may well bring an end to the war.

 

This show has really become something.

I'm still hoping for a prime reality Lorca by the end of Season 1 and/or in Season 2. However, Saru was great in leading the Discovery.

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Just now, Enterprise Discovery said:

I'm still hoping for a prime reality Lorca by the end of Season 1 and/or in Season 2. However, Saru was great in leading the Discovery.

Agreed on both counts.

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3 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

Agreed on both counts.

I'll also add, that I want a prime reality Lorca who is a good guy and who stands up for what Starfleet believes in. It'd be great to see that version of Lorca. The mirror Lorca was completely different when he showed that he was from the mirror universe.

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UM wow........did not expect mirror to go away tonight.  Lorca was clearly beamed away before he died.  For a second i thought they were going to "overshoot" to a post TNG era........oh well.  

So we're done with mirror and now we're doing time travel.........very interesting.

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Just now, Comiskeybum said:

UM wow........did not expect mirror to go away tonight.  Lorca was clearly beamed away before he died.  For a second i thought they were going to "overshoot" to a post TNG era........oh well.  

So we're done with mirror and now we're doing time travel.........very interesting.

It's still possible to see them jump to a time after Star Trek Nemesis, in the future. Maybe in the Season 1 finale.

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They have to jump back if they expect people to believe that this is the prime universe. There is no way that what happened at the end of the show wouldn't have been mentioned in TOS.

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1 minute ago, scenario said:

They have to jump back if they expect people to believe that this is the prime universe. There is no way that what happened at the end of the show wouldn't have been mentioned in TOS.

Why would it? Television in 1966 didn't do serialization beyond soap operas. They didn't even remotely begin to even flesh out the concept of Starfleet until Coon showed up.

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I agree, none of that Klingon war stuff is known canon.  Has to be fixed in order to be Prime.

 

However if you look at TrekYards recent video, they have good evidence that this is JJ verse, contrary to the powers that be saying its prime.

If not, its a prime reboot and they reuse to say it still.

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spoilers:

 

 

 

 

 

A major war that destroyed 1/3 of the Federation 10 years before TOS just wasn't mentioned at all. I can't buy it. 

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1 minute ago, scenario said:

spoilers:

 

 

 

 

 

A major war that destroyed 1/3 of the Federation 10 years before TOS just wasn't mentioned at all. I can't buy it. 

Destroyed? Maybe occupied...but destroyed is something else. The Dominion, before the tide even began to turn, all but shredded Starfleet. The Federation still existed.

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