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prometheus59650

"The Shape of Water" plagarised?

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8 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Very superficially at best.

Eliza Esposito’s muteness was a defining part of the character, and the creature was hardly a dolphin...

A researcher developing a bond with a dolphin is nothing new; but “Shape of Water” isn’t that story at all.   If one wants to go that broadly, they could say that Tom Hanks breaking mermaid Daryl Hannah out of a lab in “Splash” is the same idea, but it’s just not.

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If it even gets to court, I'm sure del Toro can prove his independent development process and that's all he'd really need to do.

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2 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

If it even gets to court, I'm sure del Toro can prove his independent development process and that's all he'd really need to do.

I mean, it’s obvious the movie drew from multiple sources; Creature From The Black Lagoon is an obvious inspiration, or even Swan Lake if you go far enough.  But a deliberate swipe? I doubt it.   We’ll see.  Kinda late for an injunction at this point anyway.    

Even if del Toro loses, I’m imagining a bit of cash will quiet the plaintiff...

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2 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Even if del Toro loses, I’m imagining a bit of cash will quiet the plaintiff...

Works for Harlan Ellison, and a more....fervent... defender of his copyrights you will not find. :)

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1 minute ago, prometheus59650 said:

Works for Harlan Ellison, and a more....fervent... defender of his copyrights you will not find. :)

Yeah, I’m surprised he hasn’t retroactively sued the estate of H.G. Wells, since "The Time Machine" is clearly based on the Guardian of Forever, right? :giggle:

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Just now, Sehlat Vie said:

Yeah, I’m surprised he hasn’t retroactively sued the estate of H.G. Wells, since "The Time Machine" is clearly based on the Guardian of Forever, right? :giggle:

Basically. LOL.

I mean, as you say, there are mutiple  paths of inspiration that could have led del Toro to where he ended up..

This is not like Michael Bolton being sued for ripping Otis Redding's "Sittin' on the Dock of the Bay" WORD FOR WORD, then claiming he'd never heard the song before.

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1 minute ago, prometheus59650 said:

Basically. LOL.

I mean, as you say, there are mutiple  paths of inspiration that could have led del Toro to where he ended up..

This is not like Michael Bolton being sued for ripping Otis Redding's "Sittin' on the Dock of the Bay" WORD FOR WORD, then claiming he'd never heard the song before.

Yeah, that was horse$#!t, that one...

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5 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Yeah, that was horse$#!t, that one...

I don't have access to a supercomputer, but I'll wager the odds of that happening are about the same as the odds of Jupiter collapsing on itself to form a star in the next 10 minutes.

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Heres the real deal: not that uncommon an idea it seems. Del Toro clearly took a ton of inspiration from Creature from the Black Lagoon...and so did a bunch of students in the Netherlands or something, who also made a similar short recently (which lead to both sides commenting that it is merely an interesting coincidence and even got Del Toro to speak to the students class or something, which is pretty neat!). 

And from what I've read of the Zindel synopsis, there are really only superficial similarities.  Del Toro has been working on this project for a few years, and I doubt he was trying to ape a little known play that originates in a country he does not come from.  They could sue, but the ideas seem different enough that they couldn't get too far in that. 

And either way, Shape of Water was tremendous so I really don't care if it was a stolen idea or not, because every idea has been recycled over and over so much, that I'd rather just see exciting execution of these old ideas, then worry about where the germ of the idea originated. If Del Toro wanted to take the premise of that play, mix it with Creature from the Black Lagoon, and slap on some style and cold war paranoia?  Well then it is original enough in my book. 

Also, it wasn't (Sittin' On) a Dock on the Bay...it was Love is a Wonderful Thing by the Isley Bros that got Bolton sued. Which if you listen to both of them it's actually kind of amazing that it ever made it to court, beyond the title and a chorus using said title...they sound nothing alike in my opinion.  If you look at lyrics websites, they will list the Isleys song with Bolton's lyrics, but if you listen to their song, it has NONE of the same words.  It's kind of a weird that they managed to even WIN that case let alone get in the courtroom.  Bolton did cover the Otis Redding song, but he rightfully attributed that and was even commended for the performance by Redding's widow!  (I knew nothing of this case until I read it here, and I probably know even less about Michael Bolton, this all quick google research...but fascinating!) 

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This is weird. It would be like comparing Flipper and SeaQuest, or Swamp Thing and Create from the Black Lagoon, because there is a sea creature. 

As for Dock of the Bay, it would be silly that Bolton did not know where he got that song. I was even thinking of it last week actually, when he did the cover. I assumed he just did a cover of it. It was on the play list at coffee shop, and I was like, this isn't the original, but it's okay.

Also Bolton did rip off the other song. Like Blurred Lines year ago ripped off some Marvin Gaye. They only get noticed for doing this after the grammys.

Still, artist should credit their sources.

I think Del Toro does credit his sources in the SoW. Saw it yesterday. It's clearly inspired by old movies, and by the swamp creature films. It is not inspired by dophin films.

Actually, Splash could be considered a distant cousin of this film. Ha. Even The Little Mermaid. In Shape of Water, he dude is clearly mre a merman than an anphibian. He must be more of an aquatic mammal. He just looks like a swamp thing. With a twist, (spoilers, there is a hybrid mermaid also).

 

 

Edited by Chimera82405

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7 hours ago, Chimera82405 said:

Actually, Splash could be considered a distant cousin of this film. Ha. Even The Little Mermaid.

Or even Tchaikovsky’s Swan Lake, for that matter...

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