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Sehlat Vie

The Sylvia Tilly Appreciation Thread...

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Inspired by our own (brilliant) Mr. Picard, I decided to open a thread for those of us who absolutely adore Cadet (someday Captain) Sylvia Tilly.  

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First off, I love how we get a Starfleet character who is at the very beginning of her career and not an officer; she is like many of us would be in her situation.  Nervous, vulnerable, uncertain, sometimes geeking out and even (occasionally) surprising her colleagues with a flash of brilliance.   And I do very much believe that she WILL be captain someday.  

Mary Wiseman also deserves a lot of credit for making Tilly so much fun.  She has a tremendous amount of personal charm as well.  On paper, Tilly is a character who could get tiresome really quickly (the ‘annoying roommate’ cliche), but for me, the opposite has happened.   I find I enjoy her more and more each episode.   Part of me wishes that the show had been told from HER point of view and not Burnham’s. 

It doesn’t hurt that she’s cute as hell, too.  ;)

Oh, if I were unmarried and 100 years younger... :laugh:

 

 

Opinions?  Thoughts?  Heaping praise?  

 

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I haven't yet watched the latest episode so I don't know what she might have done there but I join you in your  Tilley-fest.  Mary Wiseman has appeared on "After Trek" a couple of times and adds some further depth to the character she is realizing for us.  The sequences where she has to act as Captain are simply acting gold.  As I said in the episode thread, "Need more Tilly!"

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She's wonderful. She's warm, decent, bright, and just fun to watch. She has such a great energy. I really look forward to her weekly. Hell, I hope the series goes on for quite a while for no other reason than I get to watch all the ways the character will grow.

And, yes, she's got the va-va-voom, and I'm good with that. :)

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I am surprised how many Star Trek fans have a bit of a thing for Tilly.  She’s not your typical Star Trek babe.

7of9-03.jpg

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I for one find Star Trek: Discovery’s female casting, characterization, and costumes refreshing, especially after looking at these rudiculous catsuits.

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They are both lovely women, but, even back in the day I thought those catsuits were awful, particularly Ryan's, as it pretty literally strangled her unconscious more than once.

 

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It's also nice to have a female ST character who isn't some size 1 in a catsuit.  Yes, the Disco uniforms are pretty form-fitting (much like TNG's first couple of seasons), but it's nice to have a character who looks like someone you could meet in the real world, and not just on an audition in an LA studio.  

And echoing Prome's thoughts, she's so vivacious, unfiltered and just fun to watch.  At first, I was worried she was going to be the 'annoying roommate' character, but these days?  I'm closer to giving that title to Burnham (no offense to Sonequa Martin-Green; who is a fine actress), who's always in a perpetual cloud of dour...

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I also like that Tilly doesn’t look like as of she’s being forced to starve (didn’t Marina Sirtis have to spit out the chocolate stuff they gave Troi after every take because the producers were worried she’d be “getting fat”?). I do appreciate Tilly’s role model status - it really was time for Trek to acknowledge that women come in different shapes and sizes, not just catsuit size. I love how the fans have embraced her, it clearly shows there was much need for a character like her.

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3 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

I also like that Tilly doesn’t look like as of she’s being forced to starve (didn’t Marina Sirtis have to spit out the chocolate stuff they gave Troi after every take because the producers were worried she’d be “getting fat”?). I do appreciate Tilly’s role model status - it really was time for Trek to acknowledge that women come in different shapes and sizes, not just catsuit size. I love how the fans have embraced her, it clearly shows there was much need for a character like her.

She’s the first time I think fans have had a real avatar on the show; she’s a bit geeky, she’s a little bit awkward socially (who isn’t to some degree, right?) and she even snores.  But like many ST fans, she’s also very intelligent and open for new experiences.   

As the show goes on, I really think the series would’ve been much more interesting if told from her perspective; a young cadet who ‘finds herself’ on the final frontier.    Something tells me that may have been their intention with Burnham (Horatio Hornblower in Space, Roddenberry’s original concept in fact), but sadly the producers sabotaged themselves by making Burnham a overly-capable, Vulcan-raised human.  Those choices immediately made her aloof and unapproachable; not to mention hard for regular audience members to relate to as a surrogate.  

Alpha characters are nothing new in Star Trek; Kirk, Picard, Sisko, etc.   In fact, it’s almost exclusively been populated by ‘top of their class, top of their fields’ types.  

But Tilly is fresh and genuinely different.  This is the first time since TNG’s “Lower Decks” where we finally a younger Starfleet crew member (or cadet, in this case) who isn't ’there’ yet (even those folks in “Lower Decks” were much further along than Tilly).  

I think this series might’ve had more success with the non-captain centric concept if they told the shoe through HER eyes and not Burnham’s.  I can relate to Tilly, but Burnham is too aloof at times.   Burnham is not a bad character, but she’s not the human heartbeat of the show;  that role is far more ably filled by Tilly, IMO. 

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5 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

She’s the first time I think fans have had a real avatar on the show; she’s a bit geeky, she’s a little bit awkward socially (who isn’t to some degree, right?) and she even snores.  But like many ST fans, she’s also very intelligent and open for new experiences.   

As the show goes on, I really think the series would’ve been much more interesting if told from her perspective; a young cadet who ‘finds herself’ on the final frontier.    Something tells me that may have been their intention with Burnham (Horatio Hornblower in Space, Roddenberry’s original concept in fact), but sadly the producers sabotaged themselves by making Burnham a overly-capable, Vulcan-raised human.  Those choices immediately made her aloof and unapproachable; not to mention hard for regular audience members to relate to as a surrogate.  

Alpha characters are nothing new in Star Trek; Kirk, Picard, Sisko, etc.   In fact, it’s almost exclusively been populated by ‘top of their class, top of their fields’ types.  

But Tilly is fresh and genuinely different.  This is the first time since TNG’s “Lower Decks” where we finally a younger Starfleet crew member (or cadet, in this case) who isn't ’there’ yet (even those folks in “Lower Decks” were much further along than Tilly).  

I think this series might’ve had more success with the non-captain centric concept if they told the shoe through HER eyes and not Burnham’s.  I can relate to Tilly, but Burnham is too aloof at times.   Burnham is not a bad character, but she’s not the human heartbeat of the show;  that role is far more ably filled by Tilly, IMO. 

The breakout star of the show isn't always who the makers of the show think it will be. Spock wasn't intended to be the star of the show and he's the most iconic character in the ST universe. TNG was intended to star the captain and first officer but Data stole the show and it became the Picard and Data show. They'll adjust. 

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10 minutes ago, scenario said:

The breakout star of the show isn't always who the makers of the show think it will be. Spock wasn't intended to be the star of the show and he's the most iconic character in the ST universe. TNG was intended to star the captain and first officer but Data stole the show and it became the Picard and Data show. They'll adjust. 

And sometimes breakout doesn't work out. I remember clearly Berman touting Neelix as Voyager's destined breakout character.

Nope.

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3 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

I remember clearly Berman touting Neelix as Voyager's destined breakout character.

Oy! Where's that Picard facepalm gif?

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2 minutes ago, spectator said:

Oy! Where's that Picard facepalm gif?

Here you go, double facepalm for good measure

tumblr_ohm6ki7ozJ1tiitrto1_500.gif

Anyways. I agree. Tilly is a LOT more approachable than Burnham. If I was forced to (sorry still not THAT fond of either Tilly or Burnham) I'd pick Burnham, but that's because I prefer characters with less emotions and I like her Vulcan behavior and reasoning. However, I do agree that this comes across as somewhat... cold and not exactly relatable for most humans. The writers would be wise to pick up the fandom's preferences here, which clearly tend to go towards characters like Tilly, Lorca, the Stamets/Culber pairing and Georgiou (honestly she is SO popular). They can still say the first season was about Burnham having a REALLY REALLY REALLY bad time, and the second season could do what previous Treks used to do - let the fandom pick its favorites without telling them "this is our main character, you gotta like this character now, OKAY". Nah. Fandom picks its own faves.

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3 minutes ago, spectator said:

Oy! Where's that Picard facepalm gif?

No kidding. Hated him then and hate him now.

- Loud.

- Cloying

- Pretends to want to reach out to the crew, but is disrespectful more often than not, particularly to Tuvok in trying to make him smile and implying that there's something wrong with him that he won't. And you don't try to cook for someone to give them a "taste of home" and then cook so you like the recipe better. Sorta defeats the purpose.

- Downright stalky when it came to Kes.

 

Not my kind of guy.

1 minute ago, Mr.Picard said:

They can still say the first season was about Burnham having a REALLY REALLY REALLY bad time, and the second season could do what previous Treks used to do - let the fandom pick its favorites without telling them "this is our main character, you gotta like this character now, OKAY".

Yes, please.

They planted the seeds, but I think the fandom wants it to be slightly different show than the producers envisioned.

If they can tilt towards the fan favorites and keep the crackling writing and pace that the past few weeks have had, this show could really be something.

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They don't necessarily have to tilt towards the fan favorites. But you can't ignore them. Sarek raised Burnham to be a bridge between Vulcans and Humans. At the start of the series, she is clearly thinking like a Vulcan but is starting to explore her feeling side. Tilly is a very emotional person who is also very intelligent, organized and insecure. I can see over a few seasons, Tilly learning emotional self control from Burnham and Burnham learning to show and feel her emotions without allowing them to control her.  

Both Tilly and Burnham have flaws. Tilly needs to have better control of her emotions and better self assurance. Burnham doesn't trust her emotions. She is too formal. The crew might respect her but a crew with Burnham as captain would never be able to reach it's top potential. Captains like Kirk or Picard didn't let their emotions rule them but the crew could tell what they were feeling. Most people feel more comfortable with someone who is not at the extremes either overly emotional or showing no emotions at all. 

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13 hours ago, scenario said:

Tilly is a very emotional person who is also very intelligent, organized and insecure. I can see over a few seasons, Tilly learning emotional self control from Burnham and Burnham learning to show and feel her emotions without allowing them to control her. 

^ Very much so.

Burnham could be an important role model in Tilly’s goal of becoming a (real) captain someday.

18 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

No kidding. Hated him then and hate him now.

- Loud.

- Cloying

- Pretends to want to reach out to the crew, but is disrespectful more often than not, particularly to Tuvok in trying to make him smile and implying that there's something wrong with him that he won't. And you don't try to cook for someone to give them a "taste of home" and then cook so you like the recipe better. Sorta defeats the purpose.

- Downright stalky when it came to Kes.

 

Not my kind of guy.

Trying to give VGR a rewatch a while back, and the biggest thing preventing me from fully enjoying the show was... well, Neelix.

And nothing against Ethan Phillips; at conventions, he’s hilarious.   But as written?  Neelix is the ‘breakout’ character who just didn’t.   If any character broke out of that show, it was probably the EMH.

18 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Yes, please.

They planted the seeds, but I think the fandom wants it to be slightly different show than the producers envisioned.

If they can tilt towards the fan favorites and keep the crackling writing and pace that the past few weeks have had, this show could really be something.

Agreed.

And, of course, more Tilly please...:thumbup:

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3 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

If any character broke out of that show, it was probably the EMH.

And then Seven.

For all the people that complain about how the show had gravitated heavily toward those  two in the end, there were definitely reasons behind that. And good ones.

Edited by prometheus59650

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1 hour ago, prometheus59650 said:

And then Seven.

For all the people that complain about how the show had gravitated heavily toward those  two in the end, there were definitely reasons behind that. And good ones.

Seven, as much as I like her, seemed more consciously designed to be a breakout character.   With that silly catsuit and heels.   But Jeri Ryan earned her stripes, as far as I’m concerned.  She had the chops to fulfill the promise of the character. 

Tilly seems a bit more modestly written, but Mary Wiseman infuses her with enough geeky charm to light up a small city.   She’s an unintentional breakout, I’m sure.  

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6 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

But Jeri Ryan earned her stripes, as far as I’m concerned.  She had the chops to fulfill the promise of the character. 

Subtelty, humor, the ability to handle dramatic weight. Yes. She definitely was network designed to bring attention to the show, but the writers got more than they bargained for in every good way.

Almost all the episodes of that show that I call favorites are with her or The Doctor.

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Finally got the chance last night to view Ep. #12 along with thee Lady Sho-Rin.  I really liked it but she is put off by the amount and graphic nature of the violence.  We both agree, however, that it "Needs more Tilly."

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