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prometheus59650

Episode 1.12 "Vaulting Ambition" Discussion Thread

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9 hours ago, Justin Snead said:

Well dam.... this episode... dont know what to say.

There were bits that were good, even great like the Culber/Stamets scene, but it doenst cohere as its own 45 minute story. I can't help thinking that in previous series the Culber/Stamets scenes would have gotten an entire 45 minutes.    

 

45 minutes is a step up from tonight which clocked in at 37:25, give or take!

I was hoping for a musical reference to the Fred Steiner Mirror theme when the “palace” was revealed. 

I will miss Culber. A character in a relationship that will worked beautifully on screen. One thing that weakens Dr Who so much these days is beloved characters who “die” somehow end up coming back with variations of the “but wait, what’s this switch?” routine. Even the poor old Brigadier couldn’t be left to rest In peace but ended up resting alive in a Cyberman! It will be wonderful for Star Trek to take on the dramatic power of the best dramas of the current new “golden age” and leave beloved, likeable characters that we care about dead. 

 

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10 hours ago, Justin Snead said:

There were bits that were good, even great like the Culber/Stamets scene, but it doenst cohere as its own 45 minute story.

Well, it’s serialized storytelling...what are ya gonna do, right?

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Oh why isn't this show set in the Mirror Universe on a permanent basis, everything works so well, the characters, the plots, the general feeling of darkness, doom and despair that the show carries. They should have done this. It would have erased any fan complaints about "this is not Star Trek" and the continuity issues wouldn't have been there either, etc etc. WHHHHYYYYYYYYYY

All that being said, I enjoyed this episode, especially the Kelpian food moment (if anyone comes at me with "cannibalism not belonging on Star Trek", I will gladly remind them of TNG's various references to it in its first season :P), Georgiou casually getting rid of everyone around her with that super cool murder frisbee and, of course, the agonizer scenes and that dude getting a taste of that parasite (very "Conspiracy", haha), etc. This is the kind of stuff I like, I approve massively of this sort of thing. Discovery is basically  creepy sci-fi horror by now and I'm here for it. I don't want for them to leave the Mirror Universe...

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1 minute ago, prometheus59650 said:

Win.

Somebody is going to make a .gif of that, I'm sure.

tumblr_p2xsj7EvLC1sr2bbuo1_500.gif

tumblr_p2xsj7EvLC1sr2bbuo4_500.gif

:laugh: honestly this was such a cool moment!

 

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1 minute ago, Mr.Picard said:

tumblr_p2xsj7EvLC1sr2bbuo1_500.gif

tumblr_p2xsj7EvLC1sr2bbuo4_500.gif

:laugh: honestly this was such a cool moment!

 

It's only convinced me that I'm pretty sure I want an MU series, with maybe some stranded primeverse humans for contrast.

Like Game of Thrones, only cooler, because let's see Arya Stark do ^^^that^^^ %$#&  ;)

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I'd SO be here for an Emperor Georgiou or, even better, Emperor Lorca series.

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1 hour ago, Mr.Picard said:

I'd SO be here for an Emperor Georgiou or, even better, Emperor Lorca series.

Spin off!

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3 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

tumblr_p2xsj7EvLC1sr2bbuo1_500.gif

tumblr_p2xsj7EvLC1sr2bbuo4_500.gif

:laugh: honestly this was such a cool moment!

 

Wished I had one of those back when I was in retail management...it would’ve made some of those boring meetings a lot shorter. :laugh:

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3 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Wished I had one of those back when I was in retail management...it would’ve made some of those boring meetings a lot shorter. :laugh:

Yeah, but the subsequent jail time would make for a healthy mix of worrying and more boring.

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3 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Wished I had one of those back when I was in retail management...it would’ve made some of those boring meetings a lot shorter. :laugh:

 

7 minutes ago, Tupperfan said:

Yeah, but the subsequent jail time would make for a healthy mix of worrying and more boring.

Unless he’s in the Mirror Universe, in which case he’d just be considered a straight shooter with upper management written all over him.  

Edited by Locutus

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1 minute ago, Locutus said:

 

Unless your in the Mirror Universe, in which case you’d be perfect upper management material.

As long as you keep an eye on these ambitious minions everyone.

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3 hours ago, Locutus said:

 

Unless he’s in the Mirror Universe, in which case he’d just be considered a straight shooter with upper management written all over him.  

A real go-getter...:laugh:

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Lt. Saru said in one of the earlier episodes that humans were predators but his people were prey. Their purpose in life was to be eaten. I wouldn't be surprised if they were bred to taste good at some point. But somehow they developed intelligence. I wonder how that would work?

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26 minutes ago, scenario said:

Lt. Saru said in one of the earlier episodes that humans were predators but his people were prey. Their purpose in life was to be eaten. I wouldn't be surprised if they were bred to taste good at some point. But somehow they developed intelligence. I wonder how that would work?

Kelpians...a people of good taste. :giggle:

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So, if I were the Emperor, and had access to an advanced ship from a parallel universe where it seems most have doppelgangers, I feel like I would look up pretty much anybody I know, even if it's only for sh*t and giggles. 

I wonder if Emperor Georgiou did so with her own adoptive daughter. Any insight on what her Starfleet file might say about her ten years from now could help her decide her next move.

I'm also curious about what the Defiant's library has to say about that weird switcharoo a few of her sister ship's command officers had with their parallel universe counterparts...

On a side note, it seems - as DS9's happy naming coincidence and Mirror Universe events later suggests - that the Defiant's name in the Mirror universe is as significant for Terrans as the Enterprise's is for the Federation.

Edited by Tupperfan

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Man, these last three episodes have been a stunning roller-coaster ride!  I'm just amazed at all they've crammed into these episodes and how well it's all coming together.  Some top-notch writing in Discovery! 

My biggest qualm about the revelation that Lorca is actually Mirror Lorca is what this means for next season. Jason Isaacs has been absolutely RIVETING all season long, and I don't want to lose him.  I had a lot of qualms about him at first, because I like ETHICAL Starfleet captains, but Isaacs is just so very good that I can't look away from him, even when I deplore him. :happy:

I hope that either there's a good reason for them to bring Mirror Lorca back with them, or they find that regular Lorca has been tied up in Mirror Lorca's quarters on the Discovery or something, so we can continue to have Isaacs in the show.  Finding that Mirror Lorca has kept regular Lorca prisoner would probably be best, since we'd get to keep Jason Isaacs AND get a real Starfleet captain back.  I'm afraid regular Lorca probably died on the Buran, though.

I thought the revelation about sensitivity to light was brilliant.  We've seen Lorca deal with that all season long, and why did they keep harping on his sensitivity to light -- it seemed like a strange thing for them to keep pointing out.  But it all makes sense now.  So cool!

I'm wondering why Lorca was so gung-ho about killing Klingons in the regular universe if it wasn't his universe, and he didn't actually care what happened to it.  I guess it might have been an excuse for his Mirror tendencies, a way to make his "barbarian" characteristics (to use the TOS word) make sense to the Starfleet crew?

And god, how hard must it have been for Burnham, to hear Mirror Georgiou tell her that she used to call Georgiou "Mother"?

But how the heck did Lorca GET to the regular universe?  Can the Discovery use that method -- whatever it is -- to get home, now that they've delivered Lorca to where he wants to be?

I'm still wondering how they're going to get from a Mirror Universe where Sarek is a big wheel in the Resistance to a Mirror Universe where Sarek's son is the first officer on the ISS Enterprise only ten years from now.  They're gonna have to do a lot to change the Mirror universe AND they have to end the Klingon war in the regular universe (at least, according the interviews the showrunners have given), all in the next couple of episodes?  Geeze.  Can't wait!

 

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I'm still of the fervent hope that Primeverse Lorca is still around and could perhaps make his way to the bridge of Discovery.

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8 minutes ago, Mike Thompson said:

Wow, another fantastic episode.......short too but you wouldn't question it.

So much happened in it that I certainly didn't feel short-changed! ;)

 

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5 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

I'm still of the fervent hope that Primeverse Lorca is still around and could perhaps make his way to the bridge of Discovery.

From your lips to Harbert's and Berg's ear! ;)

 

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5 minutes ago, Corylea said:

From your lips to Harbert's and Berg's ear! ;)

I don't want Star Trek production to be a democracy, but if it were, I'd vote for this, too.

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6 hours ago, Corylea said:

My biggest qualm about the revelation that Lorca is actually Mirror Lorca is what this means for next season. Jason Isaacs has been absolutely RIVETING all season long, and I don't want to lose him.  I had a lot of qualms about him at first, because I like ETHICAL Starfleet captains, but Isaacs is just so very good that I can't look away from him, even when I deplore him. :happy:

I don't expect Isaacs to return as a regular. We'll hopefully get another riveting actor playing a different but equally compelling character. 

When I think about it, Lorca had to be dispensed with. He was just too powerful a presence, and his identity too much based on secret intentions and manipulations that he could not be the regular captain of his ship for the full series. Think about those episodes where he is not allowed to plot or manipulate or be a badass--he looks bored to death, which I guess he is. We are left wanting him to be his devious self, but that won't fit into every episode. No, Lorca has got to go. But hopefully he can pop in from time to time.  

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