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prometheus59650

Episode 1.11 "The Wolf Inside" Discussion Thread

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This is probably the most excited I've been about the show since it launched, and I've actually enjoyed a lot of it...but it feels like it has a really intriguing new direction. 

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31 minutes ago, kenman said:

This is probably the most excited I've been about the show since it launched, and I've actually enjoyed a lot of it...but it feels like it has a really intriguing new direction. 

Very this.

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This is definitely intriguing to say the least. I enjoyed that last episode, and it's amazing how many ties to canon it has, such as the events in the two-part "In a Mirror Darkly," not to mention the "quantum signature" stuff that was mentioned in TNG's "Parallels." Off topic a bit, I always considered the time jump in ST09 to be more like the "In a Mirror Darkly," with Nero and Spock Prime going into the past of a different reality, like what happened with the Defiant.

The mirror universe uniforms look more believable than those tacky ones from ENT and TOS (though to be fair with TOS, it was mostly a product of its time).

You know, looking at the Defiant and how the writing staff admits that the design was altered by the Terran Empire, I do wonder if they got some of the design inspiration from this picture here (which is a supposedly fake concept sketch of what the Enterprise was to look like in ST09):JLee-AprilFool-TrekXI-Ent-1280.jpg

I also like the touches such as telling Burnham that they modified the mirror-Shenzhou[/]'s transporter room (which looks like a cross between Discovery's and main Shenzhou). Sounds like they were trying to please the nitpickers who would have blasted it.

I do think we're going to see mirror Burhmam and mirror Lorca eventually (how could we not) - I mean the REAL ones.

I also liked how Tilly wasn't able to nail the "savage captain" role initially.

A good question would be how they do get back. I mean - if they go the way of the Defiant, they'll end up roughly around TNG's time period (although an alternate one in which the Klingons pwned the Federation back in the 2256).

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One thing that bugs me about this whole Voq-Tyler thing, how could they not tell he was Klingon from his DNA, let alone the shape of his organs? Oh well, I'll just roll with it I guess. Georgiou as Emporer? That's quite the promotion, not necessarily a believable one but again I'll roll with it. Mirror Sarek was obviously confused, the idea of a mirror universe doesn't occur to him even after melding with Burnham. Burnham obviously played a dangerous game and got called on it by Georgiou, something she obviously didn't bank on. Mirror Stamets? Okay, let's see where they go with this. Maybe mirror Disco has a spore drive after all...

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Oh my god that episode was pure epic.  These are perfectly written!  Whats up with that look on Lorca's face when empress Georgiou shows up????  hahahaha.  I love this show!!!

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2 minutes ago, Comiskeybum said:

Oh my god that episode was pure epic.  These are perfectly written!  Whats up with that look on Lorca's face when empress Georgiou shows up????  hahahaha.  I love this show!!!

She looked like she got caught in a compromising position. She definitely wasn't expecting to see her face, which is odd because she should have had intel on what the emperor looked like. There is some definite sloppiness in the writing, but it's still entertaining so I let it go.

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We dont know that.  The empress might fly under the radar a lot.  One data core might not be enough to reveal her identity.  

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1 minute ago, Hammer said:

She looked like she got caught in a compromising position. She definitely wasn't expecting to see her face, which is odd because she should have had intel on what the emperor looked like. There is some definite sloppiness in the writing, but it's still entertaining so I let it go.

Not when they spent last week telling us that the Emperor was faceless.

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Lorca looked like he was relieved to see her.  Like his plan was finally coming all together or something.  That look on his face meant something for sure.

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3 minutes ago, Comiskeybum said:

We dont know that.  The empress might fly under the radar a lot.  One data core might not be enough to reveal her identity.  

I would have thought that they would have had something on the emporer on the Shenzhou. Burnham would have had access to such intel. It's a minor point though. Voq's transformation is the plot thread that takes a lot more suspension of disbelief.

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Regardless. This mirror universe actually makes you feel the difference, unlike any we've seen before.  These episodes are well done. 

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1 minute ago, Hammer said:

I would have thought that they would have had something on the emporer on the Shenzhou. Burnham would have had access to such intel. It's a minor point though. Voq's transformation is the plot thread that takes a lot more suspension of disbelief.

This is a very paranoid universe. I can see it being a law punishable by death to have a picture, description, or name of the emperor published in any form. 

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Just now, scenario said:

This is a very paranoid universe. I can see it being a law punishable by death to have a picture, description, or name of the emperor published in any form. 

Easier to kill what you can ID, for sure.

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1 minute ago, scenario said:

This is a very paranoid universe. I can see it being a law punishable by death to have a picture, description, or name of the emperor published in any form. 

I'll have to re-watch it. I thought that the bridge crew recognized her right away.

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1 minute ago, Hammer said:

I'll have to re-watch it. I thought that the bridge crew recognized her right away.

Their captain is one of the Emperor's favorites. They obviously have some sort of relationship. They have seen her in person before. Plus, they were informed that the Emperor was calling.

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42 minutes ago, Comiskeybum said:

Lorca looked like he was relieved to see her.  Like his plan was finally coming all together or something.  That look on his face meant something for sure.

That's what I thought when I saw the episode. If he's from the mirror universe, what happened to the prime universe Gabriel Lorca?

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Just now, Enterprise Discovery said:

That's what I thought when I saw the episode. If he's from the mirror universe, what happened to the prime universe Gabriel Lorca?

That's the big question.

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1 minute ago, prometheus59650 said:

That's the big question.

Of course, that's if he is the mirror universe Lorca. That would also bring up the question of how he made it to the prime universe. Perhaps the Defiant, or at least using the same method of travel?

Edited by Enterprise Discovery
Added details to post.

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In the main universe Lorca was the only survivor of his previous ship. From what I've read, captains are usually among the last off of the ship in times of trouble. I think it would be difficult for a captain to explain why he was the only one left alive. So mirror Lorca either got there at just the right time to take prime Lorca's place, or destroyed the ship himself and then waited to be rescued. Any changes in behavior would be explained away because of the trauma he went through. 

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6 minutes ago, scenario said:

In the main universe Lorca was the only survivor of his previous ship. From what I've read, captains are usually among the last off of the ship in times of trouble. I think it would be difficult for a captain to explain why he was the only one left alive. So mirror Lorca either got there at just the right time to take prime Lorca's place, or destroyed the ship himself and then waited to be rescued. Any changes in behavior would be explained away because of the trauma he went through. 

That still leaves a few questions, if Lorca in the mirror universe was never on the Discovery, he would have to have another way of discovering alternate universes, as the prime universe Lorca (if he isn't the mirror Lorca), seems to have most of his knowledge of them through the spore drive. He did mention that there have been theories since the 20th century, but that still doesn't prove that they exist. Lorca being from the mirror universe would bring up many questions.

Edited by Enterprise Discovery

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2 minutes ago, Enterprise Discovery said:

That still leaves a few questions, if Lorca in the mirror universe was never on the Discovery, he would have to have another way of discovering alternate universes, as the prime universe Lorca (if he isn't the mirror Lorca), seems to have most of his knowledge of them through the spore drive. He did mention that there have been theories since the 20th century, but it still doesn't prove that they exist. Lorca being from the mirror universe would bring up many questions.

In this episode, Stamets met mirror Stamets in the spore universe. Since mirror Stamets was in the spore universe he had to be working on a spore drive or something similar. Perhaps Lorca knew about his work and went looking for prime Stamets and that's how he ended up on Discovery. Maybe mirror Stamets abandoned him in the prime universe to get rid of him without killing him. 

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7 minutes ago, scenario said:

In this episode, Stamets met mirror Stamets in the spore universe. Since mirror Stamets was in the spore universe he had to be working on a spore drive or something similar. Perhaps Lorca knew about his work and went looking for prime Stamets and that's how he ended up on Discovery. Maybe mirror Stamets abandoned him in the prime universe to get rid of him without killing him. 

It's possible. I feel like we'll know by the end of the season. Also, when Lorca talks with Cornwell, she mentions spending time with him before, an event which he doesn't seem to react to, causing her to ask if he remembers and he says that it's been a long time. That may be another hint that he is from the mirror universe.

Edited by Enterprise Discovery

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Annd with this episode, I have begun to love this series. It has found its footing as far as I am concerned...this is now a series.  This was a great episode, from the slow build up of what the Mirror Universe is making Burnham feel, to the long coming reveal of Tyler (which sure, a lot of us had figured out, but it was a nice roll out in my view), to that great ending....I loved this episode.  My favorite so far, and I look forward to sticking it out with this show. I am officially, 100% sold on it. 

Also to echo what was said above...that look on Lorca's face when the Emperor appeared...that all but confirmed my suspicions that he was a Mirror Lorca all along. It really did look like he was pleased with how things were progressing.  As if he knew this would happen to Burnham.  Things are still gonna be interesting!

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