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prometheus59650

Episode 1.10 “Despite Yourself” Discussion Thread

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3 hours ago, Locutus said:

There is the slight problem that Tyler is chief of security.  I doubt he could call security without Tyler getting wind.  He should have at least told some of the other medical staff.  Have three armed with hyposprays set to KILL ;-)

Of course he could.

There are two people farther up the chain he can get permission for the teams for.

Even if not, you call Saru, or you call Lorca, you bring them down, explain it, then you call security and then it hardly matters if Tyler shows up with them or not.

Really, it's a dumb trope because there are a dozen things Culber could have done to protect himself.

Culber's dead 'cuz stupid, and stupid 'cuz script says so. Not giving him a pass. :)

 

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46 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

Of course he could.

There are two people farther up the chain he can get permission for the teams for.

Even if not, you call Saru, or you call Lorca, you bring them down, explain it, then you call security and then it hardly matters if Tyler shows up with them or not.

Really, it's a dumb trope because there are a dozen things Culber could have done to protect himself.

Culber's dead 'cuz stupid, and stupid 'cuz script says so. Not giving him a pass. :)

 

I could see Culber not having much confidence in the chain of command at that particular point in time, given all the horrible decisions Lorca had made in the last 48 hours.  Incapacitating his hubby, ordering him away from his care.  He probably didn't really trust Lorca or the chain of command.  I'd be a bit paranoid too.  He also might not have been thinking too clearly with his dying lover ten feet away. 

But yeah, there's a dozen things he could have done, but he's not stupid.  He just lacks street smarts!  That's what happens when you're locked in a lab all day.

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6 hours ago, kenman said:

I know it is a total rebuild, but the basics are all there. The chairs are different but you can’t tell me the basic layout is really that dramatically different. Same basic shape, maybe a door was added or moved. But the helm console looks like the same basic design. The consoles along the walls share a fairly somilar line. It isn’t like a complete revamp of say, the standard classic series version of the TARDIS console room vs the TV movoe or the coral revision. Those are COMPLETE redesigns using the same skeletal structure, sure...but TMP looks updated and more realistic, but it it doesn’t strike me as a real radical departure in any way. Its toned down colors are sinilar to The Cage version toned down colors, and you can produce buttons and screens that look modern but don’t seem that different from TOS yet don’t look cheesy. I would say it is not nearly as impossible to modern that classic set up and make it work as you might think. 

I’m still wincing from the time I attended a convention and they screened a ST Continues episode (“White Iris”); the episode was generally well-recieved (the cast were present), but the scenes that showed the clunky flip communicators and tabulating computers got quite a bit of unexpected laughter (unexpected by me, at least, as I grew up watching such things).   It made me a little bit embarrassed and a bit oversensitive to the brazenly retro-tech of TOS.

If I were involved in DSC in any way, I’d be VERY careful how I roll that stuff out (if I did at all).   I don’t think the ship’s exterior is dated really; its clean lines are a bit time-proof, but the interiors are another story.  

Our own Founder put it best in his review of “The Cage” a few years ago when he called the tech of the episode almost steampunk in how its perceived today.   That review, as well as that somewhat embarrassing public screening of STC served to remind me of how quaint TOS can look to modern audiences.   It’d be especially so with DSC taking such great pains to look even more sleek and futuristic than anything seen in TOS or even the TOS movies.   

For me, the best way to reconcile the disparities would be either (a) don’t show the interiors at all, and have audio-only comms, or (b) revamp the interiors of a “Cage”-era Constitution class to something a more more bridging in its appearance.  

DSC is the most refined and cinematic ST series ever produced; to put its sets and interiors next to its 51 year old grandpa’s is inviting uneasy squirms...

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21 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I think they will have to be very careful treading too close to TOS; that could hurt the series in trying to set itself apart.   They need to really catch on and find their own groove before they connect with the strongest elements of TOS (much as TNG waited three years before “Sarek” and another two before reintroducing Spock).

Im less concerned about this than I used to be. The show clearly has it's own perspective and is willing and quite capable of taking previous Trek elements and putting their stamp in them. Like Rainn Wilson said about Mudd "The writers went for it" in a way that even surprised him. Same with the Mirror Universe. These are no mere retreads or nostalgic homages. While I want the show to continue to present new elements, like the tardigrade moral dilemma and the spore drive and the new characters, I think we are all really enjoying when they use the old Trek elements. 

Seeing the MU made me think they can do more of this, even to the point where I hope they do something with Shatner sooner rather than later.   

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23 hours ago, Selek said:

This week's episode of Discovery nearly confirmed that Lorca deliberately took Discovery to the Mirror Universe.  He does not want anyone looking into the navigation logs, and he took Culber off Stamet's case to keep Discovery in the MU.  I think it is safe to say everyone who believed Lorca was from the MU was correct.

How was this MU created?  It is possibly that the Defiant was thrown back in time and landed in the original MU.  Hoshi Sato then used the Defiant to conquer the Terran Empire and afterward reverse engineered Defiant. Thus, Terran technology advanced more than one hundred years.  Discovery was then refit several times until we get the schematic we saw in Sunday's episode.

More likely though, Defiant is not from "our" universe but from Discovery's universe.  It was thrown back in time and into this alternate MU.  Lorca read the files, found out about Discovery and realized the spore drive could be the key to defeating the empire.  If so, then where is our prime universe?

What say you?  Will we get to "our" prime universe?  If so, how?

I’m fairly certain that the Defiant being referred to in Sunday night’s episode is the same Defiant from ENT’s “In a Mirror, Darkly,” and that the TOS Defiant landed in the original Mirror Universe.  There is a time paradox, however, in that “The Tholian Web” took place after “Mirror, Mirror.”  So did Kirk and company visit a Mirror-universe timeline that had not experienced the incursion by the TOS Defiant and rise of Empress Sato?  If so, that might explain the visual inconsistencies (the emblem with upside down starfleet delta).  Or are we to believe that the Defiant had been in the Mirror universe while Kirk was there even though the “Tholian Web” had not happened yet?  

(MIGRAINE)

That’s somewhat inconsequential, however.  What REALLY intrigues me is that Lorca has set his crew on a mission to discover how the Defiant traversed to the Mirror Universe and reverse engineer it.  Assuming Burnham is successful in her mission and they successfully reverse engineer what happened to the Defiant, what are the implications of that?  The Tholians used a tricobalt weapon detonated in a dead star to open a rift from the 2155 Mirror Universe to the 2268 Prime Universe.  That is how the Defiant traversed into the Mirror Universe.

Assuming Discovery does the exact same thing, it would open a rift from the 2256 Mirror Universe to the 2369 Prime Timeline.  Hello Jean-Luc?  But wait!  Since the USS Discovery has vital information necessary to win the war with the Klingons, would a time-jump to 2369 bring us to a new TNG timeline were the Federation lost its war with the Klingons?  We could see a timeline similar to “Yesterday’s Enterprise.”  

Will the Discovery then travel back in time to prevent losing the war with the Klingons?  Will it stay in a new TNG timeline?  And what about Mirror ISS Discovery if the USS Discovery travels to 2369?  How might its presence have changed the course of history for 113 years? 

(MIGRAINE WORSENING)

Considering that Fuller originally conceived of the show as a anthology that takes us through the different time periods of Star Trek, a shift at season’s end to 2369 might have been their intention all along.  How that would return us to TOS-style exploration stories like the producers have hinted in Season 2 is dubious however.

Edited by Locutus

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Good episode, but I'm not a fan of what they did to Culber, one of the nicest characters on the ship.

Aside from killing off a character that I liked, the episode worked for me. Maybe Tilly was a bit too good at acting, but that's not a big deal. Ash, Lorca and Michael all worked well, and there was a decent balance between character and plot stuff.

Edited by Explorer3

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57 minutes ago, Explorer3 said:

Good episode, but I'm not a fan of what they did to Culber, one of the nicest characters on the ship.

Aside from killing off a character that I liked, the episode worked for me. Maybe Tilly was a bit too good at acting, but that's not a big deal. Ash, Lorca and Michael all worked well, and there was a decent balance between character and plot stuff.

Part of me thinks that Tilly wasn't really acting. She was channeling. Tilly is very intelligent but way too apologetic. I'm thinking she had a difficult upbringing. Parent(s) who were very mean and demanding and ready to fly off the handle at the least excuse. At one point she said she would cut someone's tongue out. Maybe someone said it to her when she was young because she talked too much. When she was getting dressed up to look like a serial killer she said something like Mother would approve of this. 

All through the show, she's had little comments that tell me she didn't have a good relationship with her parents. I think the sweetness is overcompensating for a really bad upbringing. I can see her getting so into character that she starts to get really scary when all that anger starts coming to the surface. 

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4 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I’m still wincing from the time I attended a convention and they screened a ST Continues episode (“White Iris”); the episode was generally well-recieved (the cast were present), but the scenes that showed the clunky flip communicators and tabulating computers got quite a bit of unexpected laughter (unexpected by me, at least, as I grew up watching such things).   It made me a little bit embarrassed and a bit oversensitive to the brazenly retro-tech of TOS.

If I were involved in DSC in any way, I’d be VERY careful how I roll that stuff out (if I did at all).   I don’t think the ship’s exterior is dated really; its clean lines are a bit time-proof, but the interiors are another story.  

Our own Founder put it best in his review of “The Cage” a few years ago when he called the tech of the episode almost steampunk in how its perceived today.   That review, as well as that somewhat embarrassing public screening of STC served to remind me of how quaint TOS can look to modern audiences.   It’d be especially so with DSC taking such great pains to look even more sleek and futuristic than anything seen in TOS or even the TOS movies.   

For me, the best way to reconcile the disparities would be either (a) don’t show the interiors at all, and have audio-only comms, or (b) revamp the interiors of a “Cage”-era Constitution class to something a more more bridging in its appearance.  

DSC is the most refined and cinematic ST series ever produced; to put its sets and interiors next to its 51 year old grandpa’s is inviting uneasy squirms...

STC is a different beast though. It is trying to perfectly replicate the look of the classic show.  It's props and sets are MEANT to look like the 60s stuff.  I'm saying there is definitely a way to recapture the general look of those original sets, but up the realism a bit to not make it look as cheesy and covered in candy and stuff.  The interiors are dated, that's not up for debate, its just true.  But to me the Motion Picture looks like taking that original set, and just diminishing the hokey factor.  Making it feel a little less TV show and a little more real.  I think that is entirely possible to do that while making the captains chair have that same basic shape, but maybe the buttons look fancier, and instead of that grey painted wood, it is a slightly sleeker grey metal.  I can genuinely picture it in my head, like what the ship was MEANT to be, as opposed to what it really looks like in HD nowadays.  Think Galaxy quest...you see the old sets from the crummy TV show, and then they cut to very similar looking sets but much more realistic.  I think there is a way to pull it off.  It's a delicate balance for sure, but I think it is more attainable.  Mainly because I don't think they should be trying to do the STC recreation of the 60s thing.  They need to modernize that basic look with better quality sets.  Take the blueprints of the original but use better materials. 

You've mentioned the screening where people laughed at the tech before, and I've often wondered about that. Are you certain they were laughing AT it, and not laughing at the joy of seeing such things?  They were presumably fans attending the screening of this fan film right?  Could it not have been a more loving laugh of "how great they did that!" I mean I have only ever watched the show alone, and I have laughed at tech and visual references because I find it humorous that they've gone to such lengths to recreate it.  It's fun! I mean I hate to say it but if I were with an audience, and we were into it, I can't say that the tech I grew up with being present in their show wouldn't make me laugh with a bit of joy.  But again, I wasn't there, it is possible the laugh was more derisive than I realize. Have I also asked this before?  Probably...

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3 hours ago, Locutus said:

 

Considering that Fuller originally conceived of the show as a anthology that takes us through the different time periods of Star Trek, a shift at season’s end to 2369 might have been their intention all along.  How that would return us to TOS-style exploration stories like the producers have hinted in Season 2 is dubious however.

Given what the Discovery now knows about 1) the future fate of the USS Defiant and 2)The existence of the Mirror Universe, not to mention the numerous elements that make Discovery stick out like a sore thumb (Spock's adoptive sister, the spore-drive, etc.), it feels like Discovery's journey will lead them away from their original timeline and/or universe...

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51 minutes ago, kenman said:

You've mentioned the screening where people laughed at the tech before, and I've often wondered about that. Are you certain they were laughing AT it, and not laughing at the joy of seeing such things? 

Pretty sure they were laughing at it.   It wasn’t quite “The Room”-level mockery, but it was definite ribbing.

And yes, I agree with you about subtly updating the basic TOS look, but I’m just saying it would need a MAJOR facelift to make those older sets more palatable.  Get rid of the clunky buttons, no more bright red plastic or primary colors on the bridge.   The Cage’s bridge had a more austere, black and metallic look that could be tweaked, but those chairs and gooseneck lamps, etc would need a major rethink...

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21 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Pretty sure they were laughing at it.   It wasn’t quite “The Room”-level mockery, but it was definite ribbing.

And yes, I agree with you about subtly updating the basic TOS look, but I’m just saying it would need a MAJOR facelift to make those older sets more palatable.  Get rid of the clunky buttons, no more bright red plastic or primary colors on the bridge.   The Cage’s bridge had a more austere, black and metallic look that could be tweaked, but those chairs and gooseneck lamps, etc would need a major rethink...

What if the gooseneck lamps moved on their own. Make them look less clunky and more lifelike. 

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Just now, scenario said:

What if the gooseneck lamps moved on their own. Make them look less clunky and more lifelike. 

Because it might be scary...:laugh:

tumblr_nn67yenWSZ1qaqx8xo1_500.gif

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On 1/8/2018 at 9:50 PM, Sehlat Vie said:

It still might, and I’d love it if they did!

I think they will have to be very careful treading too close to TOS; that could hurt the series in trying to set itself apart.   They need to really catch on and find their own groove before they connect with the strongest elements of TOS (much as TNG waited three years before “Sarek” and another two before reintroducing Spock).

I think if they ever have a close encounter with “The Cage" era’s Enterprise, it should only appear on a view screen or maybe an audio-only communique.    Personally I think they’re already doing enough with the crossover-thing by having Sarek as a semi-regular...

I was actually thinking exactly that!  I shot of a Constitution ship, probably not the Enterprise, would be just enough.  Do not show fans the inside, at least not right away.  Let them wonder for a while, and then, only do one episode on the inside, perhaps at the end of season 2.  It would be perfect from a metacognitive standpoint--build up the anticipation among the fans just as they built up anticipation of the series.  Give us a sense of wonder about what the plot is in the same way that Star Trek first gave us a sense of wonder about exploring the unknown.

On 1/8/2018 at 10:44 PM, scenario said:

There are other ships than the Enterprise. Maybe a young Matt Decker shows up as first officer of the USS Constellation.

It would be cool to have a half season arc in the original universe with short trips to the original bridges and uniforms. It would give the people who don't like change a taste of the original ST without upsetting the new fans. Then go back to the universe the show started with and start exploring. 

I agree that would be a great idea, but I would tease it.  Just give us a glimpse of a TOS Constitution. Then, make us wait a few more weeks, for another bit of TOS.  Build it up.

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On 1/9/2018 at 7:11 PM, Locutus said:

I’m fairly certain that the Defiant being referred to in Sunday night’s episode is the same Defiant from ENT’s “In a Mirror, Darkly,” and that the TOS Defiant landed in the original Mirror Universe.  There is a time paradox, however, in that “The Tholian Web” took place after “Mirror, Mirror.”  So did Kirk and company visit a Mirror-universe timeline that had not experienced the incursion by the TOS Defiant and rise of Empress Sato?  If so, that might explain the visual inconsistencies (the emblem with upside down starfleet delta).  Or are we to believe that the Defiant had been in the Mirror universe while Kirk was there even though the “Tholian Web” had not happened yet?  

(MIGRAINE)

That’s somewhat inconsequential, however.  What REALLY intrigues me is that Lorca has set his crew on a mission to discover how the Defiant traversed to the Mirror Universe and reverse engineer it.  Assuming Burnham is successful in her mission and they successfully reverse engineer what happened to the Defiant, what are the implications of that?  The Tholians used a tricobalt weapon detonated in a dead star to open a rift from the 2155 Mirror Universe to the 2268 Prime Universe.  That is how the Defiant traversed into the Mirror Universe.

Assuming Discovery does the exact same thing, it would open a rift from the 2256 Mirror Universe to the 2369 Prime Timeline.  Hello Jean-Luc?  But wait!  Since the USS Discovery has vital information necessary to win the war with the Klingons, would a time-jump to 2369 bring us to a new TNG timeline were the Federation lost its war with the Klingons?  We could see a timeline similar to “Yesterday’s Enterprise.”  

Will the Discovery then travel back in time to prevent losing the war with the Klingons?  Will it stay in a new TNG timeline?  And what about Mirror ISS Discovery if the USS Discovery travels to 2369?  How might its presence have changed the course of history for 113 years? 

(MIGRAINE WORSENING)

Considering that Fuller originally conceived of the show as a anthology that takes us through the different time periods of Star Trek, a shift at season’s end to 2369 might have been their intention all along.  How that would return us to TOS-style exploration stories like the producers have hinted in Season 2 is dubious however.

You might be right of the origin of the Defiant.  It is possible the ship was refit several times to get the schematic we saw.  But there is no way Lorca is telling the truth.  He is not looking for a way to reverse-engineer what happened with the Defiant.  Culber was right--Lorca took him off Stamets' case because he does not want Stamets to get better.  He does not want to leave the MU.  He wants to use Discovery to overthrow the emperor.

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On 1/9/2018 at 8:11 PM, Locutus said:

 

Considering that Fuller originally conceived of the show as a anthology that takes us through the different time periods of Star Trek, a shift at season’s end to 2369 might have been their intention all along.  How that would return us to TOS-style exploration stories like the producers have hinted in Season 2 is dubious however.

This has been repeated so much but I wonder how accurate it is. Was it Fuller's intention to make the show an anthology *up to the point he was fired*? Or was that something he was spitballing during the development phase and eventually decided against? I don't actually know the answer.

I think an anthology is not a good fit for Trek. Trek is a character based show. Would we really want to get invested in a cast of characters only to have them abandoned after one season? I certainly would not want that for the DSC characters... but at the rate they are killing them off they may all be gone by the end of season 1.    

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29 minutes ago, Justin Snead said:

This has been repeated so much but I wonder how accurate it is. Was it Fuller's intention to make the show an anthology *up to the point he was fired*? Or was that something he was spitballing during the development phase and eventually decided against? I don't actually know the answer.

I think an anthology is not a good fit for Trek. Trek is a character based show. Would we really want to get invested in a cast of characters only to have them abandoned after one season? I certainly would not want that for the DSC characters... but at the rate they are killing them off they may all be gone by the end of season 1.    

Maybe it'll be the same crew, just transported into the future and have to find a way to explore, adapting to the future. You could bring back past characters that way, too. Kirk, Riker and others, for example. I know that Kirk was written out of the franchise, but this could bring him back, if they wanted to.

Edited by Enterprise Discovery

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24 minutes ago, Enterprise Discovery said:

Maybe it'll be the same crew, just transported into the future and have to find a way to explore, adapting to the future. You could bring back past characters that way, too. Kirk, Riker and others, for example. I know that Kirk was written out of the franchise, but this could bring him back, if they wanted to.

 

53 minutes ago, Justin Snead said:

This has been repeated so much but I wonder how accurate it is. Was it Fuller's intention to make the show an anthology *up to the point he was fired*? Or was that something he was spitballing during the development phase and eventually decided against? I don't actually know the answer.

I think an anthology is not a good fit for Trek. Trek is a character based show. Would we really want to get invested in a cast of characters only to have them abandoned after one season? I certainly would not want that for the DSC characters... but at the rate they are killing them off they may all be gone by the end of season 1.    

From what I have read, it sounds like Fuller originally conceived the show would be focused more on one character, Michael Burnham.  I square that with the rumored anthology concept by assuming that she would be part of a generation-spanning mystery that would carry her into the future somehow.  In that way, it would not truly be an anthology.  Of course, now I’m the one that’s kind of spitballing.  Nonetheless, it seems like a plausible theory.

Edited by Locutus

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11 hours ago, Selek said:

I was actually thinking exactly that!  I shot of a Constitution ship, probably not the Enterprise, would be just enough.  Do not show fans the inside, at least not right away.  Let them wonder for a while, and then, only do one episode on the inside, perhaps at the end of season 2.  It would be perfect from a metacognitive standpoint--build up the anticipation among the fans just as they built up anticipation of the series.  Give us a sense of wonder about what the plot is in the same way that Star Trek first gave us a sense of wonder about exploring the unknown.

I agree that would be a great idea, but I would tease it.  Just give us a glimpse of a TOS Constitution. Then, make us wait a few more weeks, for another bit of TOS.  Build it up.

^ This.

But showing the Christmas lights and hard candy console-buttoned interior of the old style ships with the sleek, cinematic interior of DSC and Shenzhou would be too much to swallow; especially since the far-sleeker Shenzhou is supposed to be much older than the clunkier Constitution-class ships (the class of Starfleet’s flagship, BTW).

I say show the exterior of Defiant (if only a quick shot) but avoid the interior.    Just better that way IMO.  

Let the audience imagine an updated interior more in keeping with DSC’s overall look...

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48 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

^ This.

But showing the Christmas lights and hard candy console-buttoned interior of the old style ships with the sleek, cinematic interior of DSC and Shenzhou would be too much to swallow; especially since the far-sleeker Shenzhou is supposed to be much older than the clunkier Constitution-class ships (the class of Starfleet’s flagship, BTW).

I say show the exterior of Defiant (if only a quick shot) but avoid the interior.    Just better that way IMO.  

Let the audience imagine an updated interior more in keeping with DSC’s overall look...

If they'll finally admit that Discovery is from a different universe that is similar but more advanced in design, they could show the insides of the ship. They would need to update them somewhat but keep it as close as possible.  

I think they could have fun with it. They show a bridge that is similar to NCC1701. Then someone says, "What was that? They haven't built bridges like that in 50 years." Then someone else says "The bridge may look primitive but the ship it controls is slightly more advanced than this one is except for the spore drive." Then when they go over to the ship, the engineers talk. 

"This ship is very advanced but we changed the style 50 years ago."

"Yeah, don't I know it. Politics. Every time we try to change the look of the bridge, someone complains. The Delphinus complain that touch screens don't work properly with their flippers. I really don't know why the Federation backs down to a species that's never put anyone in starfleet, have only one ship that we special built for them and almost never leaves the planet. But, they have some of the best biological science in the federation and they're real touchy if they don't get their way. And then don't get me started about the Aracknids, they...."

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4 hours ago, scenario said:

If they'll finally admit that Discovery is from a different universe that is similar but more advanced in design, they could show the insides of the ship. They would need to update them somewhat but keep it as close as possible.  

I think they could have fun with it. They show a bridge that is similar to NCC1701. Then someone says, "What was that? They haven't built bridges like that in 50 years." Then someone else says "The bridge may look primitive but the ship it controls is slightly more advanced than this one is except for the spore drive." Then when they go over to the ship, the engineers talk. 

"This ship is very advanced but we changed the style 50 years ago."

"Yeah, don't I know it. Politics. Every time we try to change the look of the bridge, someone complains. The Delphinus complain that touch screens don't work properly with their flippers. I really don't know why the Federation backs down to a species that's never put anyone in starfleet, have only one ship that we special built for them and almost never leaves the planet. But, they have some of the best biological science in the federation and they're real touchy if they don't get their way. And then don't get me started about the Aracknids, they...."

Ha! Wonderful. Exactly, do it in the writing with some creative work on the sets. So many great ideas right here on this board: the Discovery writers room annex! I recently updated my 1960s kitchen. I basically stripped out all of the old masonite boards and doors plus the old ring cookers and emamel oven, but kept the entire framework as it was solid wood and not that damn particleboard that’s used these days. Made new doors from Tasmanian oak and put in stainless steel and ceramic ultities and now have a new, modern kitchen where everything is configured exactly like the old one. The original builder could walk in and after a few blinks feel right at home. 

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6 hours ago, scenario said:

If they'll finally admit that Discovery is from a different universe that is similar but more advanced in design, they could show the insides of the ship. They would need to update them somewhat but keep it as close as possible.  

I think they could have fun with it. They show a bridge that is similar to NCC1701. Then someone says, "What was that? They haven't built bridges like that in 50 years." Then someone else says "The bridge may look primitive but the ship it controls is slightly more advanced than this one is except for the spore drive." Then when they go over to the ship, the engineers talk. 

"This ship is very advanced but we changed the style 50 years ago."

"Yeah, don't I know it. Politics. Every time we try to change the look of the bridge, someone complains. The Delphinus complain that touch screens don't work properly with their flippers. I really don't know why the Federation backs down to a species that's never put anyone in starfleet, have only one ship that we special built for them and almost never leaves the planet. But, they have some of the best biological science in the federation and they're real touchy if they don't get their way. And then don't get me started about the Aracknids, they...."

 

1 hour ago, Yorick said:

Ha! Wonderful. Exactly, do it in the writing with some creative work on the sets. So many great ideas right here on this board: the Discovery writers room annex! I recently updated my 1960s kitchen. I basically stripped out all of the old masonite boards and doors plus the old ring cookers and emamel oven, but kept the entire framework as it was solid wood and not that damn particleboard that’s used these days. Made new doors from Tasmanian oak and put in stainless steel and ceramic ultities and now have a new, modern kitchen where everything is configured exactly like the old one. The original builder could walk in and after a few blinks feel right at home. 

I for one think this kind of on-screen exposition as to why Star Trek: Discovery's ships looks more sophisticated than the TOS Enterprise does far more harm than good.  Fans accepted altered Klingons for decades.  I found the augment virus story line fun and entertaining, but I detest the fact that it has created this precedent for having to explain every change in visual style.  

As for Discovery, they have a lot of complicated drama and story lines that need to be resolved in the next 5 hours of television.  I don't want them wasting their time bending over backward to appease fans who can't accept the update visual style.  It's a waste of breath.  

Edited by Locutus

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6 hours ago, Locutus said:

As for Discovery, they have a lot of complicated drama and story lines that need to be resolved in the next 5 hours of television.  I don't want them wasting their time bending over backward to appease fans who can't accept the update visual style.  It's a waste of breath.  

This.

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1 hour ago, prometheus59650 said:

This.

I agree about this year. I think it would work in a one off comedy type episode. The end of the season is where everything heats up. 

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