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Episode 1.10 “Despite Yourself” Discussion Thread

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1 minute ago, scenario said:

I agree. It annoyed and upset me as well. But I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for a few episodes. Since the show runner and several of the writers are gay, there might be more than it seems here.  

They've basically called this the end of Chapter one when it comes to that coupling, so...this was planned and not the end. Whether or not I like where they go is a different story. 

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5 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

To kill the Emperor, I imagine. He's the most wanted man in his universe. Burnam has him. He may well plan to use her to make one last run at the kill.

My question is: what happened to DSC's Lorca? Is he dead? In that universe somewhere, stowed away, perhaps to ultimately convince Burnam to get him to the Emperor?

This seems like it will wrap before or with S1.And the Terran Empire symbology is markedly different.

That would be super fun.

The uniforms don't mean much. In the Roman Empire the money changed with a new emperor. With replicators, why couldn't the uniforms and furnishings of the ship change.

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3 minutes ago, scenario said:

The uniforms don't mean much. In the Roman Empire the money changed with a new emperor. With replicators, why couldn't the uniforms and furnishings of the ship change.

I meant more that the "flag" changed. In "Mirror Darkly" the Terran Empire has the same single sword through Earth that "Mirror, Mirror" uses.

This universe's flag is, while not hugely, markedly different.

Edited by prometheus59650

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2 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

I meant more that the "flag" changed. In "Mirror Darkly" the Terran Empire has the same single sword through Earth that "Mirror, Mirror" uses.

This universe's flag is, while not hugely, markedly different.

Different emperor, different styles. Mirror Darkly and Mirror, Mirror had an emperor in the same family or party but this universe had an outsider as emperor who wanted to set their own mark. With replicators, there's no issue with expense. The fact that the single sword changed doesn't mean all that much. Countries do change flags. The U.S. changed its flag in 1959. Libya, Malawi, Venezuela, Georgia, and Myanmar have changed their flags recently. 4 of the 5 changed because of a revolution. 

A new emperor comes in and wants to sweep away the old one. There's a counter revolution and everything changes back. It's easy to change uniforms, colors, flags, room furnishings, agony booth design, etc.  Ships design, not so much. Anything superficial is changed to prove to the universe that there's a new boss in town. 

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50 minutes ago, scenario said:

I agree. It annoyed and upset me as well. But I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for a few episodes. Since the show runner and several of the writers are gay, there might be more than it seems here.  

I’m thinking this as well.   Wilson Cruz has dropped heavy hints that we’ve not seen the end of Culber.   ST is kinda like The Walking Dead when it comes to resurrecting ‘dead’ characters (hehe).  And I’m pretty sure that Cruz won’t be back as zombie-Culber either. :P

I’m saddened in the short term, but curious to see where they’re going with this.  
I was VERY disappointed that they killed Culber like a damn redshirt.  He certainly deserved better than that.   

But again...I’m holding out hope that this might be another classic ST fakeout death.  

59 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

To kill the Emperor, I imagine. He's the most wanted man in his universe. Burnam has him. He may well plan to use her to make one last run at the kill.

My question is: what happened to DSC's Lorca? Is he dead? In that universe somewhere, stowed away, perhaps to ultimately convince Burnam to get him to the Emperor?

This seems like it will wrap before or with S1.And the Terran Empire symbology is markedly different.

That would be super fun.

 

Riker said it better than I could:

 

 

I’m guessing Lorca is planting flags on two ships (Shenzhou and Disco) in a bid to double his odds of killing the Emperor.  He might also locate the Defiant, assuming it’s not been reverse-engineered to death by now.   Maybe once he helps free his people (in the short term, because we know his bid fails by the time of “Mirror, Mirror” 10 years later).

And yes, Captain Killy... she was great.   I'd say sexy if it didn’t make feel like an old pervert...  :giggle:

 

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3 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I’m thinking this as well.   Wilson Cruz has dropped heavy hints that we’ve not seen the end of Culber.   ST is kinda like The Walking Dead when it comes to resurrecting ‘dead’ characters (hehe).  And I’m pretty sure that Cruz won’t be back as zombie-Culber either. :P

I’m saddened in the short term, but curious to see where they’re going with this.  
I was VERY disappointed that they killed Culber like a damn redshirt.  He certainly deserved better than that.   

But again...I’m holding out hope that this might be another classic ST fakeout death.  

That's not the issue. The issue is that they used the trope DESPITE knowing how bad it looks. They will bring Culber back or make him not-dead in some way, yes, I know, but the fact remains that they used a trope that is well-known for being harmful and offensive to a particular minority community they keep trying to tell "we want for you to be represented, please watch our show, we will correct the mistakes that were made in the past, we will make up for how Trek treated you for decades". It's no wonder the LGBT community is upset now - imagine you're being told "we want you here" and then you get slapped across the face with the "bury your gays" trope for shock value/the full intention to retcon the whole thing anyway. Gay folks were/are involved in making this show. They of all people should know better than pulling a stunt like this.

It's a shame, really... I enjoyed the episode a LOT and would have given it a 10/10 if it hadn't resorted to this utterly unnecessary trope.

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3 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

That's not the issue. The issue is that they used the trope DESPITE knowing how bad it looks. They will bring Culber back or make him not-dead in some way, yes, I know, but the fact remains that they used a trope that is well-known for being harmful and offensive to a particular minority community they keep trying to tell "we want for you to be represented, please watch our show, we will correct the mistakes that were made in the past, we will make up for how Trek treated you for decades". It's no wonder the LGBT community is upset now - imagine you're being told "we want you here" and then you get slapped across the face with the "bury your gays" trope for shock value/the full intention to retcon the whole thing anyway. Gay folks were/are involved in making this show. They of all people should know better than pulling a stunt like this.

It's a shame, really... I enjoyed the episode a LOT and would have given it a 10/10 if it hadn't resorted to this utterly unnecessary trope.

I gasped aloud (literally) when they killed Culber.   And I still think (whatever the eventual outcome) that it was a mistake, unless the payoff is really good.   Maybe Stamets has some kind of Gary Mitchell-like powers and ‘heals’ Culber somehow (that’d be stupid, I know... I’m just spitballing here).    

The real shame is that Culber was finally coming into his own in this episode, and I felt I was better understanding who he was as a character.   And then?  They f#@king kill him off.

 

Really guys??

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4 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I gasped aloud (literally) when they killed Culber.   And I still think (whatever the eventual outcome) that it was a mistake, unless the payoff is really good.   Maybe Stamets has some kind of Gary Mitchell-like powers and ‘heals’ Culber somehow (that’d be stupid, I know... I’m just spitballing here).    

The real shame is that Culber was finally coming into his own in this episode, and I felt I was better understanding who he was as a character.   And then?  They f#@king kill him off.

 

Really guys??

The trailer for the next episode has a scene in which Stamets cradles Culber in his arms and then he seemingly enters the spore drive chamber again or something, he IS seen doing SOMETHING, and my guess is that, whatever he does, he does out of grief and/or rage. (I identify a lot with Stamets, and Culber matches a certain other person I happen to like a lot, and it's EXACTLY what I would do, too.) It will be interesting to see just what it is that he does. Turn back time? Alter the timeline as a whole? (He DOES exist outside normal time.) It will definitely be something that endangers HIM more than anyone, though. At least that's my guess from a dramatic character writer viewpoint.

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22 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I'd say sexy if it didn’t make feel like an old pervert...  :giggle:

I'm not that much younger than you, and I'll say it: she brought the sexeh.  ;)

Oh, Captain, my Captain.

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36 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

That's not the issue. The issue is that they used the trope DESPITE knowing how bad it looks. They will bring Culber back or make him not-dead in some way, yes, I know, but the fact remains that they used a trope that is well-known for being harmful and offensive to a particular minority community they keep trying to tell "we want for you to be represented, please watch our show, we will correct the mistakes that were made in the past, we will make up for how Trek treated you for decades". It's no wonder the LGBT community is upset now - imagine you're being told "we want you here" and then you get slapped across the face with the "bury your gays" trope for shock value/the full intention to retcon the whole thing anyway. Gay folks were/are involved in making this show. They of all people should know better than pulling a stunt like this.

It's a shame, really... I enjoyed the episode a LOT and would have given it a 10/10 if it hadn't resorted to this utterly unnecessary trope.

Should his character be immune to death then because killing him is a trope? It's not like he's the first or only character to die on the show.

It makes sense that his character would be the first to suspect his true identity. My issue is if Culber was unsure of who he was, he should have taken security precautions before calling him out on it. 

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9 minutes ago, Hammer said:

Should his character be immune to death then because killing him is a trope? It's not like he's the first or only character to die on the show.

It makes sense that his character would be the first to suspect his true identity. My issue is if Culber was unsure of who he was, he should have taken security precautions before calling him out on it. 

This.

The only real "trope" at play here is the ageless one that goes:

- "Hammer discovers that John is a serial killer."

- "Hammer confronts John, alone, with all his evidence, telling no one else.

- "To no one's surprise, except, for some reason Hammer's, John kills Hammer before John can be outed."

 

Culber determines that this man is not who he claims to be. He doesn't know WHAT he is, but, given the fact that his bones were physically sawed shorter, it ain't pretty and it ain't good.

As soon as Tyler entered Sickbay, the doors should have been sealed and he should have been met with a dozen security officers.

But, no. 

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4 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

I'm not that much younger than you, and I'll say it: she brought the sexeh.  ;)

Oh, Captain, my Captain.

She was... um, very cute.  How’s that? :giggle:

4 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

The trailer for the next episode has a scene in which Stamets cradles Culber in his arms and then he seemingly enters the spore drive chamber again or something, he IS seen doing SOMETHING, and my guess is that, whatever he does, he does out of grief and/or rage. (I identify a lot with Stamets, and Culber matches a certain other person I happen to like a lot, and it's EXACTLY what I would do, too.) It will be interesting to see just what it is that he does. Turn back time? Alter the timeline as a whole? (He DOES exist outside normal time.) It will definitely be something that endangers HIM more than anyone, though. At least that's my guess from a dramatic character writer viewpoint.

^
This.

I’m guessing there’ll be some kind of deus ex machina at play to bring him back; which is not uncommon in ST either, so if anyone sneers at it?   Hey, it’s Star Trek.   Scotty died.  Spock died. Uhura had her mind wiped (and was back on the job in a week!).  So death isn’t necessarily the ‘final frontier’ in ST, and it never has been. 

I’m usually against cheap resurrections, but in this case (and with the actors they’ve got)?  I’d gladly make an exception.

Besides, AfterTrek made it VERY clear that we’ve not seen the end of the Stamulber.  ;)

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* Agreed that this is a return to the scary, edge of your seat MU that was in Mirror, Mirror and the first DS9 visit. They got a bit tongue in cheek after that. Not here. 

* Though the episode was dark in places, it's really an adventure that hit several notes from romance to high tragedy to comedy. The Tilly scenes had me laughing out loud. And the look on Tyler's face when he is wrestling with his demons, and on Burmham's face when she had to kill the double of her former crewman were gut wrenching.

* Those three actors--the Tilly, Tyler and Burnham scenes--were their best acting so far. And that is in no small measure due to Frank's direction. Just imagine the notes he must have given Shazad Latif for his breakdown scene. That was not an easy acting job to convey and he carried so much more than was in the script. This ep was DIRECTED, from the emotional beats to that great tubolight fight--Franks needs to return.        

* After being unenthusiastic about the Voq/Tyler plot, Im now won over. Because it's not a simple cliche Manchurian plot that we've seen before (did you catch Culber's reference to some kind of Manchurian psychological test?). Even L'Rell said something is not working right with her plan, so we will be guessing till the end. It works.  

* Looks like we have an increase in the betting odds that Lorca is from the MU. I kind of hope not, because I am liking the idea of having a multi-dimensional and very damaged human in the prime universe. But the pieces fit, and it would make for a very cool story--just at the expense of reducing the character to a one note evil MU villain. 

 

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10 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

Okay, I'm gonna rant first, then I'm gonna say how much I liked the rest of the episode.

SPOILERS

 

SPOILERS

 

SPOILERS

As a gay man, this episode infuriated me. Killing off Culber is the same old tired "kill your gays because they're icky" trope we see so much of. Yes, I know, the showrunners have said this isn't the end of Culber's story, and they will retcon this one way or another. But that doesn't matter, what's done is done. They used the "kill your gays" trope, and what's worse, they used it DESPITE knowing that it existed. Trek has a terrible history with LGBT characters (meaning: We're either not there or we're twisted Mirror Universe versions of "the good and nice straight characters"), and the fact that they resorted to this trope now REALLY REALLY REALLY doesn't help ANYTHING. I get it that this might be a trivial issue for non-minority folks, but for us this is a big deal, especially since the show went out of its way to tell us "you're part of Trek's future now". But hey, the first chance of using the "kill your gays" trope and they jump at it. And a certain group of Trek "fans" applauds, of course - "so glad they killed off one of the gays", "now I can finally watch this show with my kids", "Finally, Star Trek is back to being the Star Trek I know and love", etc. Well done, writers. Really, really smart move. Not.

Anyways.

The rest of the episode? I loved. I wish they had set this show in the Mirror Universe from the beginning. It makes so much more sense and everyone fits in so nicely. Especially Lorca, of course, but then, he fits in because... well, we all know why by now I guess.

I'll jump over to the Lorca topic for the next things I have to say because honestly HE WAS SO GOOD IN THIS EPISODE. LEATHER LORCA *hnnnnggggg*

 

I hear you, truly. And I will not discount how it made you feel. At all. First, I did cringe a bit at the neck snap. Because I like the character. I also like what the relationship adds to the show, the tension of the doctor being in love with the one person that the Spore Drive is damaging each week. And, as a gay man who has been watching gay representation or lack thereof in pop culture since the 80s, I love the way their relationship is portrayed. I don't have qualms with the writers--we've never had this much gay representation in the Trek writers room--but it will feel like a cheat if they've spent all year saying how great DSC is for having a mature gay relationship only to end that relationship in season 1. Which is why I don't think they will end it.  

But I also kind of loved it when poor Culber had his neck snapped. It was surprising! It had that "oh no you didn't" thrill that TV shows need, but it also does important narrative work: it ratchets up the Tyler story line with needed tension and danger. There is no going back from that act--it must be followed by even more tension and danger until the ultimate resolution, probably between Tyler and Burnham. It's a good story, especially because it's morally ambiguous. We wan't to be on Tyler's side, but he just murdered his doctor! How will this end?!? Tyler had to start doing more than just have secret conversations with L'Rell, and this was it. 

I do not feel killing Culber--if he is actually dead--is the result of a 'kill the gay' cliche. I don't think that rule had been used in force since the early 90s, if not the 80s. I tend to prefer my diversity characters to be treated no different than any other characters. If they need to kill Culber for the good of the overall story, I guess I'll accept it. But I don't believe your average viewer sees the death through the lens of Culber's sexuality.      

 

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This week's episode of Discovery nearly confirmed that Lorca deliberately took Discovery to the Mirror Universe.  He does not want anyone looking into the navigation logs, and he took Culber off Stamet's case to keep Discovery in the MU.  I think it is safe to say everyone who believed Lorca was from the MU was correct.

How was this MU created?  It is possibly that the Defiant was thrown back in time and landed in the original MU.  Hoshi Sato then used the Defiant to conquer the Terran Empire and afterward reverse engineered Defiant. Thus, Terran technology advanced more than one hundred years.  Discovery was then refit several times until we get the schematic we saw in Sunday's episode.

More likely though, Defiant is not from "our" universe but from Discovery's universe.  It was thrown back in time and into this alternate MU.  Lorca read the files, found out about Discovery and realized the spore drive could be the key to defeating the empire.  If so, then where is our prime universe?

What say you?  Will we get to "our" prime universe?  If so, how?

Edited by Selek
typo

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58 minutes ago, Justin Snead said:

* Agreed that this is a return to the scary, edge of your seat MU that was in Mirror, Mirror and the first DS9 visit. They got a bit tongue in cheek after that. Not here.

Yeah, those agony booths aboard the ISS Shenzhou were intense... :ohmy:

12 minutes ago, Selek said:

This week's episode of Discovery nearly confirmed that Lorca deliberately took Discovery to the Mirror Universe.  He does not want anyone looking into the navigation logs, and he took Culber off Stamet's case to keep Discovery in the MU.  I think it is safe to say everyone who believed Lorca was from the MU was correct.

How was this MU created?  It is possibly that the Defiant was thrown back in time and landed in the original MU.  Hoshi Sato then used the Defiant to conquered the Terran Empire and afterward reverse engineered Defiant. Thus, Terran technology advanced more than one hundred years.  Discovery was then refit several times until we get the schematic we saw in Sunday's episode.

More likely though, Defiant is not from "our" universe but from Discovery's universe.  It was thrown back in time and into this alternate MU.  Lorca read the files, found out about Discovery and realized the spore drive could be the key to defeating the empire.  If so, then where is our prime universe?

What say you?  Will we get to "our" prime universe?  If so, how?

I just wanted to say I really liked your theory about the ship winding up in the ‘real’ prime universe... would’ve been pretty neat.

But in hindsight, Lorca seems at home in the MU, so yeah... I see why they went that way.  But I would’ve been equally okay with it if they went with your theory, too. 

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15 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Yeah, those agony booths aboard the ISS Shenzhou were intense... :ohmy:

I just wanted to say I really liked your theory about the ship winding up in the ‘real’ prime universe... would’ve been pretty neat.

But in hindsight, Lorca seems at home in the MU, so yeah... I see why they went that way.  But I would’ve been equally okay with it if they went with your theory, too. 

Who is to say both theories can't still be correct.  Lorca very possibly is from the MU...and maybe when the season wraps up, and Discovery escapes that universe...maybe they THEN end up in the real Prime universe. There has been some talk from the production team that Season 2 making the show more in line with TOS...maybe that's because we then enter that timeline! Never know!

I was holding that same theory before I read it here, so I am still hoping that they can pull that off. Because it is a neat idea for clearing up any perceived messes (which is not THAT important...but inner fanboy would rather enjoy it). 

Interesting discussion came from RedLetterMedia about the show, which covers their thoughts on both the first half of the show (before last night), as well as their thoughts on the Orville.  I lean more towards Mike. I saw less of the Orville than he did, but the episode I saw just felt like a retread with dick jokes...whereas while Discovery is not perfect, it does have me interested to keep going. I am maybe more positive about Discovery than Mike was...though Rich is really down on it, I think he is very much the old school fan who doesn't really want anything new.  Anyhow:

 

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1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Yeah, those agony booths aboard the ISS Shenzhou were intense... :ohmy:

I just wanted to say I really liked your theory about the ship winding up in the ‘real’ prime universe... would’ve been pretty neat.

But in hindsight, Lorca seems at home in the MU, so yeah... I see why they went that way.  But I would’ve been equally okay with it if they went with your theory, too. 

Oh, I m not giving up my theory.  I think the Discovery will eventually end up in our prime universe.  I predict the MU will take all or almost all of the remaining season, perhaps with a thrilling cliff hanger with a jump and reentry near a Cage-era Constitution class ship, possibly the Enterprise itself.

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1 minute ago, Selek said:

Oh, I m not giving up my theory.  I think the Discovery will eventually end up in our prime universe. 

It still might, and I’d love it if they did!

1 minute ago, Selek said:

I predict the MU will take all or almost all of the remaining season, perhaps with a thrilling cliff hanger with a jump and reentry near a Cage-era Constitution class ship, possibly the Enterprise itself.

I think they will have to be very careful treading too close to TOS; that could hurt the series in trying to set itself apart.   They need to really catch on and find their own groove before they connect with the strongest elements of TOS (much as TNG waited three years before “Sarek” and another two before reintroducing Spock).

I think if they ever have a close encounter with “The Cage" era’s Enterprise, it should only appear on a view screen or maybe an audio-only communique.    Personally I think they’re already doing enough with the crossover-thing by having Sarek as a semi-regular...

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49 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

It still might, and I’d love it if they did!

I think they will have to be very careful treading too close to TOS; that could hurt the series in trying to set itself apart.   They need to really catch on and find their own groove before they connect with the strongest elements of TOS (much as TNG waited three years before “Sarek” and another two before reintroducing Spock).

I think if they ever have a close encounter with “The Cage" era’s Enterprise, it should only appear on a view screen or maybe an audio-only communique.    Personally I think they’re already doing enough with the crossover-thing by having Sarek as a semi-regular...

There are other ships than the Enterprise. Maybe a young Matt Decker shows up as first officer of the USS Constellation.

It would be cool to have a half season arc in the original universe with short trips to the original bridges and uniforms. It would give the people who don't like change a taste of the original ST without upsetting the new fans. Then go back to the universe the show started with and start exploring. 

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I have finally caught up on my Trek Review blog, busy with baby and work and all that. Now I am in layoff and have some time on my hands...so I rewatched a few episodes for a refresher, reviewed them all up to last nights!  My review for this episode is here: https://honeyfuggletrek.blogspot.com/2018/01/the-second-chapter.html

Basically I've found the more I think about it, the more I am enjoying this episode, and how it has me very interested in how things unfold.  I also wrote up a bit of my theory on Lorca. 

2 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

It still might, and I’d love it if they did!

I think they will have to be very careful treading too close to TOS; that could hurt the series in trying to set itself apart.   They need to really catch on and find their own groove before they connect with the strongest elements of TOS (much as TNG waited three years before “Sarek” and another two before reintroducing Spock).

I think if they ever have a close encounter with “The Cage" era’s Enterprise, it should only appear on a view screen or maybe an audio-only communique.    Personally I think they’re already doing enough with the crossover-thing by having Sarek as a semi-regular...

I would say it is entirely possible to pull it off.  Doctor Who has managed to successfully recreate the original cheap 60s era TARDIS console, and update it so it doesn't look as cheesy but still feels like it came from that era.  They sort of did that in Series 9's finale as well, and then went full on into the First Doctor's console room...and it didn't look laughable. You could recreate hte TOS bridge, particularly the more muted colors of the Pike era, and make it not seem as laughable. Instead of the wood set walls painted grey, use metal or something...and light it a little more cinematic...I think there has got to be a creative way to get close to what the original looked like without it looking too Star Trek Continues.  And I could use some damn color so bring on the tri-colored uniforms, even the more muted affairs from the Cage pilot. You could also easily revamp those ever so slightly to make them look less cheap.  It is all possible I feel.  I don't see them going like Enterprise did in their Mirror story and just using the fan set...they need to build something that looks a little more real and sturdy...but you can use that basic design and do that. Look at the Motion Picture, that's basically what they did.  Revamped the original bridge to stand up to 35mm film.  You could meet in the middle somewhere surely in getting closer to that original bridge but making it have a bit more of the sturdiness and believability the TOS movies brought to it. 

That said...will they actually do it?  Who knows...and if they do will they get it right?  Even though I am enjoying this series I have to admit I doubt that.  As much as I am enjoying the show I don't think it has that same level of fan-lovingness that Who currently has at the helm (or had under RTD and Moff, we don't really know yet what Chibnall is bringing to the table).

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7 hours ago, kenman said:

I would say it is entirely possible to pull it off.  Doctor Who has managed to successfully recreate the original cheap 60s era TARDIS console, and update it so it doesn't look as cheesy but still feels like it came from that era.

I agree...and disagree a bit. 
Doctor Who has a bit more of a mythic, fantasy vibe about it (he IS an alien, after all) that isn’t quite as literal-minded as Star Trek tends to be at times.   It’s a very different kind of series.  I can’t really imagine the crew of a cinematic-quality looking starship (inside and out) beaming onto a plastic knobs and candy-light consoles that looks more like a bunch of cheap Christmas decorations than a starship.  DW’s Tardis (the white classic version) looks austere enough to pass muster as advanced technology; TOS’ bridge doesn’t. 

But...anything’s possible.

7 hours ago, kenman said:

Look at the Motion Picture, that's basically what they did.  Revamped the original bridge to stand up to 35mm film. 

They didn’t just ‘revamp’ the TOS bridge; they rebuilt it from the ground up.  It’s a total revision of the original design that only shares the same skeletal concept.  

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58 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

They didn’t just ‘revamp’ the TOS bridge; they rebuilt it from the ground up.  It’s a total revision of the original design that only shares the same skeletal concept.  

This.

Circular with dedicated stations. That's really all the two bridges share aesthetically.

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21 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

This.

The only real "trope" at play here is the ageless one that goes:

- "Hammer discovers that John is a serial killer."

- "Hammer confronts John, alone, with all his evidence, telling no one else.

- "To no one's surprise, except, for some reason Hammer's, John kills Hammer before John can be outed."

 

Culber determines that this man is not who he claims to be. He doesn't know WHAT he is, but, given the fact that his bones were physically sawed shorter, it ain't pretty and it ain't good.

As soon as Tyler entered Sickbay, the doors should have been sealed and he should have been met with a dozen security officers.

But, no. 

There is the slight problem that Tyler is chief of security.  I doubt he could call security without Tyler getting wind.  He should have at least told some of the other medical staff.  Have three armed with hyposprays set to KILL ;-)

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2 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I agree...and disagree a bit. 
Doctor Who has a bit more of a mythic, fantasy vibe about it (he IS an alien, after all) that isn’t quite as literal-minded as Star Trek tends to be at times.   It’s a very different kind of series.  I can’t really imagine the crew of a cinematic-quality looking starship (inside and out) beaming onto a plastic knobs and candy-light consoles that looks more like a bunch of cheap Christmas decorations than a starship.  DW’s Tardis (the white classic version) looks austere enough to pass muster as advanced technology; TOS’ bridge doesn’t. 

But...anything’s possible.

They didn’t just ‘revamp’ the TOS bridge; they rebuilt it from the ground up.  It’s a total revision of the original design that only shares the same skeletal concept.  

I know it is a total rebuild, but the basics are all there. The chairs are different but you can’t tell me the basic layout is really that dramatically different. Same basic shape, maybe a door was added or moved. But the helm console looks like the same basic design. The consoles along the walls share a fairly somilar line. It isn’t like a complete revamp of say, the standard classic series version of the TARDIS console room vs the TV movoe or the coral revision. Those are COMPLETE redesigns using the same skeletal structure, sure...but TMP looks updated and more realistic, but it it doesn’t strike me as a real radical departure in any way. Its toned down colors are sinilar to The Cage version toned down colors, and you can produce buttons and screens that look modern but don’t seem that different from TOS yet don’t look cheesy. I would say it is not nearly as impossible to modern that classic set up and make it work as you might think. 

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