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Sherlock Holmes

Rated R Star Trek is a dumb idea.

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On 12/14/2017 at 6:13 AM, Justin Snead said:

GEN was a film that had a lot in common with the previous six in how it approached its story. FC was as well, but the action imperative was creeping in--it worked like gangbusters.

FC, for me, was no more or less "action" than any other action episode of TNG. The characters were who they always were and Picard, for instance, really didn't do much there that he didn't do in the likes of "Starship Mine."

INS had too many hands trying to play with the story with a question that is supposed to be some moral quandry. "Do you displace 600 people that aren't even indigenous to the planet to give every humanoid in the galaxy a life, not only disease free but with as much immortality as you can stand?"  

Yes, you do.

Then you watch Picard dune buggy around, and it's no wonder Nemesis box office dropped daily in opening weekend.

 

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I favor a PG Star Trek. To me, TOS, was the right combo. Anyone could watch it. If you want an 'R' rating, put it in the DVD extra. I bet there would be more sales!

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47 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Slashfilm’s meditations on the selected writer: 

http://www.slashfilm.com/quentin-tarantino-star-trek/

On the one hand, it's a relief to hear that QT isn't writing it, but on the other I'm not exactly jumping for joy to hear that the writer of "The Revenant" (an overlong, torture porn-ish revenge epic masquerading as Oscar contender) IS writing it.  

I'm still holding out hope that this deal isn't etched in stone; we've seen ST movies that have reached preproduction and get aborted in development hell ("Planet of the Titans" Harve Bennett's "Starfleet Academy" and Roberto Orci's ST3.0).  

My hope is that Paramount wakes up from its months-long bender and realizes 'edgy, R-rated Trek' is not necessarily the best way to go for a franchise rooted in optimism, and that many in ST's core audience are getting bored with revenge epics (thought STB was the best of that particular bunch, IMO; the attention to character and its optimism were not lost on this old fan, despite the lackluster box office...).

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It could be that they will bandy this around for months and not actually come up with something. QT would likely do a revenge story, once again, and also a nod to the 1960s, but with N words tossed in and lots of grit and long talks about the nature of film making, ending with a standoff where almost if not everyone dies. Is the studio even listening to hardcore fans? Seems that they did a little, but with Beyond under performing, they might not go in that direction again. R rated movies would not bring in as many fans. They know that.

The odd interview of them online cut and pasted a shot of the fan built Enterprise of Koerner on it, which is misleading. Gabe Koerner has nothing to do with the film. Do they give him royalties for using his ship cut and pasted into a shot of Quentin, ah Mr. Taraltino?

And just to kick a literal dead horse, there will be a Revenant style scene where a horse dies and Kirk must climb inside its belly to survive a cold night on the ice planet, after getting mauled by a bear, and healed later by an Indian from North America.

                                                                                                             

Edited by Chimera82405

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6 hours ago, Chimera82405 said:

QT would likely do a revenge story, once again, and also a nod to the 1960s, but with N words tossed in and lots of grit and long talks about the nature of film making, ending with a standoff where almost if not everyone dies. Is the studio even listening to hardcore fans? Seems that they did a little, but with Beyond under performing, they might not go in that direction again. R rated movies would not bring in as many fans. They know that.

I could see Tarantino writing a revenge epic, but I sincerely doubt he would do a ST movie with the N-word in it.  

As for meditations on filmmaking?  I doubt this as well.   As uneven as his recent movies have been, they haven’t been quite so meta...

Totally agree that an R-rating on a ST movie would be a nail in the ST movie coffin. 

6 hours ago, Chimera82405 said:

And just to kick a literal dead horse, there will be a Revenant style scene where a horse dies and Kirk must climb inside its belly to survive a cold night on the ice planet, after getting mauled by a bear, and healed later by an Indian from North America.

QT had nothing to do with The Revenant (as far as I know?) so I’m not sure why anyone would assume this either...

 

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A studio “casts” writers and directors the same way they do roles. QT is an incredibly odd choice for a Trek film,  as everything about his oeuvre is bleak and cynical, if often darkly humorous.  The more I come across this news item and its progression, the more I think it’s just a huge tonal mismatch. The pessimist in me is quite sure this is just down to the draw and notoriety his name provides, which smacks of studio desperation. 

But I could just be completely wrong. His films are always a smorgasbord of influences, so maybe his Trek film would be, too - but not all the usual cartoonish death and destruction. Maybe he wants to make a sleek vision of the future via the optimism of Star Trek, and surprise everyone. That would be a very QT thing to want to do, although he’s never really shown a penchant for that direction of storytelling. 

I think I might be in danger of repeating myself here. I’m just gonna wait and see on this one. 

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1 hour ago, Robin Bland said:

A studio “casts” writers and directors the same way they do roles. QT is an incredibly odd choice for a Trek film,  as everything about his oeuvre is bleak and cynical, if often darkly humorous.  The more I come across this news item and its progression, the more I think it’s just a huge tonal mismatch. The pessimist in me is quite sure this is just down to the draw and notoriety his name provides, which smacks of studio desperation. 

But I could just be completely wrong. His films are always a smorgasbord of influences, so maybe his Trek film would be, too - but not all the usual cartoonish death and destruction. Maybe he wants to make a sleek vision of the future via the optimism of Star Trek, and surprise everyone. That would be a very QT thing to want to do, although he’s never really shown a penchant for that direction of storytelling. 

I think I might be in danger of repeating myself here. I’m just gonna wait and see on this one. 

I'm hoping that the QT-Paramount meeting was less "I want to put my signature R-rated stamp on Star Trek" and more  "I think I can find the discipline to try to make a good, solid Star Trek movie, despite my earlier filmography." 

But, as you say, I'm going to wait and see...primarily to see if this even happens at all.  A part of me is still doubtful. 

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57 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I'm hoping that the QT-Paramount meeting was less "I want to put my signature R-rated stamp on Star Trek" and more  "I think I can find the discipline to try to make a good, solid Star Trek movie, despite my earlier filmography." 

But, as you say, I'm going to wait and see...primarily to see if this even happens at all.  A part of me is still doubtful. 

Secretly - or not so secretly, now - I’m hoping your doubt wins out and it never sees the light of day. 

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8 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Secretly - or not so secretly, now - I’m hoping your doubt wins out and it never sees the light of day. 

Unless, as you say, he surprises everybody...but I doubt it. :P

A little pessimism can be healthy, I think. 

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The Revenant quote is there because the writer of the Revenant movie, Mark L. Smith, has been asked to do the script. Interesting that Tarantino would not be the writer.

If he sticks to canon and doesn't go overboard, okay, but if he turns it into The Wrath of the Wrath of Khan and Klingons and lots of cussing, it would be, as Spock would say, 'Laced with certain colorful metaphors.' and not be Star Trek.

Ah, but Sam Jackson as a wise cracking Klingon would be 'extreme, yo!'. I am kidding.

And in Hateful 8? Incglorious Basterds? or some of those other pretty gritty gems? They were laced with not only film references, but long monologues on the nature of film, exploitation, and counter culture and cultural bias. IgB had a 15 minute diatribe on an obscure form of 1930s film, appropriate for the picture, but that would stop an action movie cold. H8 had at least two 15 minute movie genre tirades. Also, DJango Unchained did too.

The cultural wink and nod to a film genre is fine, such as doing a space western, referencing a western style obsession or quirk, or even some injustice, but a lecture would be a little boring is all.

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10 hours ago, Robin Bland said:

But I could just be completely wrong. His films are always a smorgasbord of influences, so maybe his Trek film would be, too - but not all the usual cartoonish death and destruction. Maybe he wants to make a sleek vision of the future via the optimism of Star Trek, and surprise everyone. That would be a very QT thing to want to do, although he’s never really shown a penchant for that direction of storytelling. 

I agree. He's a capable writer, director, etc... but can he deliver something that is not 'Tarantino-esque'? We haven't seen it. And why would he deliver something that's not him. That's who he's been. Similar to M. Night Shyamalan, they have their respective ways of doing things and have not shown any deviation from their path. 

Maybe with very strong influence he could deliver something cool but his insistence(if it is that) that the movie be R-rated is a huge red flag in my book that it's business as usual for him. 

The flip side is that he's been a fan. Maybe he changes his tone for something that is relatively well established compared to something that is solely his creation. I know I would go see it out of curiosity but I'm sure many parents would refrain from taking their families. It would be a very male-centric target audience. Big mistake. 

Edited by Nombrecomun

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1 hour ago, Nombrecomun said:

I agree. He's a capable writer, director, etc... but can he deliver something that is not 'Tarantino-esque'? We haven't seen it. And why would he deliver something that's not him. That's who he's been. Similar to M. Night Shyamalan, they have their respective ways of doing things and have not shown any deviation from their path. 

Maybe with very strong influence he could deliver something cool but his insistence(if it is that) that the movie be R-rated is a huge red flag in my book that it's business as usual for him. 

The flip side is that he's been a fan. Maybe he changes his tone for something that is relatively well established compared to something that is solely his creation. I know I would go see it out of curiosity but I'm sure many parents would refrain from taking their families. It would be a very male-centric target audience. Big mistake. 

Agreed. But note that Tarantino has never done a wholly original movie. All of his films are nods to other films, which in turn he spins in different directions, but are ultimately homages. The homage factor might make him palatable, but the cursing and the darkness likely will not. I still say he would be awesome doing something like "Valley of the Dolls" an exploitation sci fi flick about Venusians invading Earth, but you'd have to update it to just be female aliens, or "Forbidden Planet", a flick about lonely colonists going mad, and a monster, or even a remake of the 1990s western "Unforgiven", a desperate old grizzled cowboy returns and fights one last enemy.

Maybe with Trek he will go all day glow color 60s kitsch retro and have beehives and disco boots, and swag chairs, and shag rugs. Get Benicio Del Toro as Mudd. I dunno.

Edited by Chimera82405

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1 hour ago, Chimera82405 said:

Maybe with Trek he will go all day glow color 60s kitsch retro and have beehives and disco boots, and swag chairs, and shag rugs. Get Benicio Del Toro as Mudd. I dunno.

Worked for Thor:Ragnarok. ;)

 

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17 hours ago, Chimera82405 said:

The Revenant quote is there because the writer of the Revenant movie, Mark L. Smith, has been asked to do the script. Interesting that Tarantino would not be the writer.

I stand (or sit) corrected.  Thanks.

Doesn’t mean he’ll repeat that story though, but I still think (as Robin said earlier) it’s a tonal mismatch. 

14 hours ago, Chimera82405 said:

Maybe with Trek he will go all day glow color 60s kitsch retro and have beehives and disco boots, and swag chairs, and shag rugs. Get Benicio Del Toro as Mudd. I dunno.

Please oh please no more Mudd....

It was bad enough having him back as SuperMudd on DSC. 

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On 12/21/2017 at 11:53 AM, Nombrecomun said:

I agree. I"m not longing for another Bad Robot Trek film. Overall, they're mediocre. I enjoyed the first one through the flaws(and the amazingly annoying lens flares). 

Trek needs a different direction. It's not the action/adventure genre that JJ tried to sell. It can't be just that I should say. There really wasn't anything more in those movies. Now that I see a second JJ Star Wars movies I'm convinced he's too much flash with little substance. To me, his name attached to a project no longer inspires desire to see it.  

Critics started to sniff out this exact sentiment about Abrams as far back as his movie Super 8. the guy just cant put heart in him movies.

Ive become convinced that Paramount has no appetite to do a Trek IV, the Bad Robot take on the franchise simply has no box office legs. The only reason that we're talking QT is because people who want to do another one know that they cannot do the same kind of movie as the last three. They have to do something so brash and buzzworthy to get people to come back to see a Trek movie, and they think having QT attached will do it. 

My hunch is this will fall apart and there won't be another Trek movie for many years. Bad Robot will move on. Paramount will reboot it again somehow, possibly as the kind of movie that is not needed to make half a billion dollars, a cheaper, smaller kind of movie. Or they won't even bother.   

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If your going to have swearing. Don't have it in the movie. Have in in a special companion disc (sold separately) of "deleted scenes." The scenes aren't deleted, they're made for the disc while shooting. Have one labeled "The directors favorite scene" and have every character in the scene swear every other word. Make fun of stereotypes. Have McCoy say "I'm a doctor not a ____" with 20 different choices. Have Kirk have his shirt ripped off of him by 3 green women. Have a short love scene with Kirk, yell cut and replace the woman with Spock. Then have five second cuts with every combination of the bridge crew.  Play with it. He's dead Jim. The engines can't take it. Hailing frequencies open captain. Maybe even add a warp core breach in for good measure. 

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Just so Kirk doesn't fight Vger mano e mano, scream 'take this you stinkin' muthah bleeper' and fire all the phasers and torpedoes at it, hoping to blow it to pieces, ending with him making a joke about a burger he heard about in an old 1970s flick, as M'Benga walks in, (played by the dude from Star Wars) in an afro, and shouts' dang, dog, that be some bad hars bleep'.

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