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prometheus59650

Episode 1.9: “Into the Forest I Go” Discussion Thread

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24 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Hopefully Lorca will soon have his eyes fixed as red laser pointers.

"Lt. Arium... play with that ball of wool there."

"Yessir."

"Commander Saru... I want you to bat this piece of scrunched up paper about."

"Immediately, sir."

...

Oh, the possibilities for real drama...

I would SO watch that show :laugh: 

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1 hour ago, Mr.Picard said:

I would SO watch that show :laugh: 

"And you, Michael Burnham... make purring noises."

"Meeeeowww, prrrrrrrrrr, sir."

Etc.

:biggrin: 

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On 11/13/2017 at 7:02 AM, Sehlat Vie said:

Just hoping they’re not ‘lost in space’ for good...:giggle:

lostinspace.jpeg?w=605

 

Funny that you put up the Lost in Space comparison. My thoughts after watching this episode compared Lorca to Dr. Smith. Oh...definitely not the hammy but fun original interpretation but more along Oldman's interpretation. Dangerous and morally ambiguous. You could never quite tell if he was good or bad entirely since there were flashes of both or if simply the circumstances dictated his behaviour. 

My other thought is that somehow he is from another parallel reality and he's trying to get home, borrowing a page from CW's The Flash. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Nombrecomun said:

My other thought is that somehow he is from another parallel reality and he's trying to get home, borrowing a page from CW's The Flash. 

^
This might very well be...

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Corylea   

My husband didn't feel well enough to watch this episode the day it was released, but he didn't want me to watch it without him, so I didn't get to see it until last night.  Finally!!!

God, what an episode!  From Culber and Stamets kissing to Stamets hanging limply in the chamber to Tyler's PTSD flashbacks to Lorca's manipulation of Stamets to Burnham's insisting on going on the mission to Burnham's stalling for time by calling out Kol to getting Cornwall back alive to Tyler's confession to Burnham ... damn, that was something!

I have an idea about the Tyler-is-Voq theory.  I'm not saying that this IS what's happening, but it's something that COULD be happening, and it would fit with what we know about the writer's overall intentions for the show.

Many Americans have been suspicious of Muslims for awhile, and men who LOOK as if they MIGHT be Muslim have been harassed at airports, followed on the street, and treated badly, even though most American Muslims are perfectly ordinary citizens, just like everybody else. We know that the writers of Discovery are interested in giving the show some social commentary.

Shazad Latif looks like the kind of man who is getting harassed on "suspicion of being Muslim" these days. What if the writers left a trail of breadcrumbs to make us THINK that Tyler was probably Voq, when he's actually an innocent man who has already been through hell by being in Klingon custody for 7 months? The entire fandom is suspicious of this man who's been tortured and raped, and won't we feel bad if the poor guy is exactly who he seems to be?

What if that suspicion IS the point? Perhaps all of those clues suggesting that Tyler might be Voq are a subtle attempt to make Americans re-think their reflexive suspicion of men who look like Shazad Latif?  What if the message is, "Look, you suspected this guy, and he's a big damn hero who survived seven months of captivity, torture and rape?  All that suspicion was for nothing!  Aren't you ashamed of yourselves?  And wouldn't you like to stop being reflexively suspicious of men who look like Shazad Latif?"

 

Edited by Corylea

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1 hour ago, Corylea said:

I have an idea about the Tyler-is-Voq theory.  I'm not saying that this IS what's happening, but it's something that COULD be happening, and it would fit with what we know about the writer's overall intentions for the show.

It really lines up when you think about it; though I don’t think Tyler is aware that he was Voq.  My guess is that he is a programmed sleeper agent, with memories of his Klingon life buried deep underneath his now primary human memory implants.   If you’ve ever seen 2003’s Battlestar Galactica and its character(s) of Sharon/Boomer, you’ll get the idea. 

1 hour ago, Corylea said:

Shazad Latif looks like the kind of man who is getting harassed on "suspicion of being Muslim" these days. What if the writers left a trail of breadcrumbs to make us THINK that Tyler was probably Voq, when he's actually an innocent man who has already been through hell by being in Klingon custody for 7 months? The entire fandom is suspicious of this man who's been tortured and raped, and won't we feel bad if the poor guy is exactly who he seems to be?

For me, it’s more about what if he discovers who/what he really is, but CHOOSES to be Ash Tyler?  The same way BSG’s Sharon chose to remain Sharon instead of a Cylon?

1 hour ago, Corylea said:

What if that suspicion IS the point? Perhaps all of those clues suggesting that Tyler might be Voq are a subtle attempt to make Americans re-think their reflexive suspicion of men who look like Shazad Latif?  What if the message is, "Look, you suspected this guy, and he's a big damn hero who survived seven months of captivity, torture and rape?  All that suspicion was for nothing!  Aren't you ashamed of yourselves?  And wouldn't you like to stop being reflexively suspicious of men who look like Shazad Latif?"

And that’s possible, but ultimately (for me) a less interesting idea than a human who doesn’t know he’s something else.  But upon learning the truth (someday?), he chooses to be a human being instead.   To be honest, the actor’s ethnicity never really factored into my theory, since he’s playing a generically named “Ash Tyler.”  

He could’ve just as easily been caucasian or African-American or hispanic and I still would’ve held to the theory that he’s really the former Klingon albino Voq.   Because if the Klingons are that good at cosmetic surgery (Arne Darvin in TOS’ “Trouble With Tribbles” being another example), I suspect he could’ve been made to appear as any kind of human.

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1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:

For me, it’s more about what if he discovers who/what he really is, but CHOOSES to be Ash Tyler?  The same way BSG’s Sharon chose to remain Sharon instead of a Cylon?

Works for me.

It's gotta be fairly tempting to remain. He was an outcast among his own, and I don't know that Lorca would necessarily cut him loose even if he knew.

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20 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

Works for me.

It's gotta be fairly tempting to remain. He was an outcast among his own, and I don't know that Lorca would necessarily cut him loose even if he knew.

Lorca has a thing for outsiders; like his affection for Burnham.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if he'd enjoy having a secret Klingon in his crew (secret to Starfleet, but not him...).

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13 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Lorca has a thing for outsiders; like his affection for Burnham.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if he'd enjoy having a secret Klingon in his crew (secret to Starfleet, but not him...).

Wha?

Are you implying that Lorca is a ...disreputable sort?"

He is a Starfleet Captain, sir, therefore above that sort of thing. ;)

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4 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Wha?

Are you implying that Lorca is a ...disreputable sort?"

He is a Starfleet Captain, sir, therefore above that sort of thing. ;)

Aaaaaaaand we all know better.  ;) :giggle:

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6 hours ago, Corylea said:

I have an idea about the Tyler-is-Voq theory.  I'm not saying that this IS what's happening, but it's something that COULD be happening, and it would fit with what we know about the writer's overall intentions for the show.

I hadn't thought about that at all. Interesting. I was wondering where that character went all the while thinking I must have missed some dialog explaining his disappearance. 

While it does make sense that Ash is Voq I wish he wasn't. I like the 'broken soldier/sleeper agent' aspect. It does bring an interesting dramatic element to Star Trek. I liked how he froze when confronted with L'Rell. I suppose that could also be explained by some type of brainwashing or that deep down inside he knows who he is and his relationship with her. 

If he is Voq then there are some real heavy questions here: surgery, psychological implantation, etc...How does L'Rell do all of that given that Klingons aren't necessarily a species that care much for science, at least science not related to war and in the middle of what seems to be a Klingon civil war. Her manner of being is more akin a Romulan using deception to get by rather than honor. 

If she has that capability then why wouldn't she then be a Romulan agent using the same procedure to change a Klingon into a human? While this may all be cool it may too convoluted for my tastes. 

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