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prometheus59650

Episode 1.5 "Choose Your Pain" Discussion Thread

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This show continues to impress. Rainn Wilson's Mudd is homage enough to remind one of the original, but with enough darkness to fit and to remind you that, at his core Mudd was always sort of scummy.

Saru's -- "I know what I did."

Stamets showing some humanity, not to mention seeing him and Culber just...living.

And Lorca's reputation as Lorca is maintained as I can imagine him as the only Starfleet Captain that would off his own crew and not flinch. :)

And Burnam actually becomes a little more relatable to me.

 

Am loving this show.

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This episode REALLY felt like Star Trek; more so than any of the previous episodes.  

 

****** SPOILER ALERT ******

 

Harry Mudd was sufficiently reined in to make him less campy but not inconsistent with what we see in TOS.  I was also impressed by the consistency of Rainn Wilson’s interpretation as well.  Loved the story of he and Stella’s courtship (figured bribery played a role in it).

Stamets was the real hero of this episode, and that was nice to see.  

As was seeing a genuinely normal domestic pairing aboard a starship; ST has a long, sad history with showing couples in love.  Maybe that curse is finally broken with Stamets and Culber...

Speaking of which, I really like Culber; he’s warm, humane, and seems much more like the Starfleet the show will (hopefully) aspire to be.   

Lorca was great.   He was a swaggering, two-fisted badass with a dark past.   He and his newly ‘adopted' crewman Tyler really had fun tossing those Klingons into Sto Vo Kor...

Liked Saru’s research into successful starship captains; the names made me geek a little bit (Robert April, Christopher Pike, Jonathan Archer and Matthew Decker! :thumbup:).  And the bit with Burnham giving him the telescope was sweet.  A nice overture to an eventually renewed trust in each other, I hope.

The resolution with the tardigrade was CLASSIC Star Trek.  Muuuuuuuch better!  And having a human step up to the challenge was also very... Star Trek.   I can finally see this series evolving closer to something we recognize as ST.   Not that I wasn’t enjoying what came before, but it’s nice to see ST’s warm heart beating in there somewhere. 

In short, this was the most Star Trek of DSC so far.

 

Keep it up, guys. :thumbup:

 

PS:  Oh and to anyone who thinks the spore drive isn’t up to snuff with ST’s usual pseudoscience?  Well, I think they technobabbled it just enough to make it work.   

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Hammer   
12 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

 

PS:  Oh and to anyone who thinks the spore drive isn’t up to snuff with ST’s usual pseudoscience?  Well, I think they technobabbled it just enough to make it work.    

They've made enough of an attempt to explain it that I can buy in for the sake of following the show. It seems like they are just expanding on the concept of subspace. This poses some continuity problems of course, why weren't Kirk or Picard popping around the universe at will? I think that Enterprise is the only canon for this show. I don't think that the events of TOS or TNG will happen in Discovery's timeline/future.

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4 minutes ago, Hammer said:

They've made enough of an attempt to explain it that I can buy in for the sake of following the show. It seems like they are just expanding on the concept of subspace. This poses some continuity problems of course, why weren't Kirk or Picard popping around the universe at will? I think that Enterprise is the only canon for this show. I don't think that the events of TOS or TNG will happen in Discovery's timeline/future.

Easy enough to make it somehow unusable later.

Stamets probably has something to do with that

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Corylea   

It's funny, I've had a lot of reservations about Captain Lorca, but when he was in Klingon hands, it was clear to me that I was rooting for him.  I guess my current position is that he might be a bad guy, but he's OUR bad guy. :P

Watching them release the tardigrade into open space made me tear up a little.

Okay, so what's going on with Stanmets' reflection lingering in the mirror after he himself has left the room? It's like the reverse of being a vampire. :-) Is this just the way mirrors work in the 23rd century, or does it have something to do with his new DNA?

 

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2 minutes ago, Corylea said:

It's funny, I've had a lot of reservations about Captain Lorca, but when he was in Klingon hands, it was clear to me that I was rooting for him.  I guess my current position is that he might be a bad guy, but he's OUR bad guy. :P

Watching them release the tardigrade into open space made me tear up a little.

Okay, so what's going on with Stanmets' reflection lingering in the mirror after he himself has left the room? It's like the reverse of being a vampire. :-) Is this just the way mirrors work in the 23rd century, or does it have something to do with his new DNA?

 

Perhaps beginning to see infinite alternatives?

Anthony Rapp on tonight's episode and the show.

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20 minutes ago, Hammer said:

They've made enough of an attempt to explain it that I can buy in for the sake of following the show. It seems like they are just expanding on the concept of subspace. This poses some continuity problems of course, why weren't Kirk or Picard popping around the universe at will? I think that Enterprise is the only canon for this show. I don't think that the events of TOS or TNG will happen in Discovery's timeline/future.

Same reasons we didn’t see transwarp drive in wide use after STIII (?).  Perhaps it’ll be revealed to be unstable or too dangerous or some other reason...?

13 minutes ago, Corylea said:

It's funny, I've had a lot of reservations about Captain Lorca, but when he was in Klingon hands, it was clear to me that I was rooting for him.  I guess my current position is that he might be a bad guy, but he's OUR bad guy. :P

Pretty much.  He was pretty damn heroic in tonight’s episode; I was rooting for him too.  Kind of like rooting for Dallas’ J.R Ewing to pull through after he was shot. :laugh:

15 minutes ago, Corylea said:

Watching them release the tardigrade into open space made me tear up a little.

That was a VERY Star Trek moment.   Applause ensued... :happy:

16 minutes ago, Corylea said:

Okay, so what's going on with Stanmets' reflection lingering in the mirror after he himself has left the room? It's like the reverse of being a vampire. :-) Is this just the way mirrors work in the 23rd century, or does it have something to do with his new DNA?

I’m guessing THIS (whatever it will be) is the reason we don’t see spore drive in wide use in ST’s ‘future.’ 

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Corylea   

Okay, so what's going on with Stanmets' reflection lingering in the mirror after he himself has left the room?

17 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

Perhaps beginning to see infinite alternatives?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.  Stanmets himself wasn't IN the room.  Maybe Stanmets can now see the mycelium network and all, but he wasn't THERE to do any seeing.

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40 minutes ago, Corylea said:

Okay, so what's going on with Stamets' reflection lingering in the mirror after he himself has left the room? It's like the reverse of being a vampire. :-) Is this just the way mirrors work in the 23rd century, or does it have something to do with his new DNA?

 

I took it to mean that it's a glimpse into the mirrorverse. That one of those possibilities Stamets saw when he was hooked up tot he spore drive was the neighbors' evilverse. 

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Corylea   
Just now, Robin Bland said:

I took it to mean that it's a glimpse into the mirrorverse. That one of those possibilities Stamets saw when he was hooked up tot he spore drive was the neighbors' evilverse. 

Hee!  Love the phrase "the neighbors' evilverse." :thumbsup2:

 

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17 minutes ago, Corylea said:

 

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.  Stanmets himself wasn't IN the room.  Maybe Stanmets can now see the mycelium network and all, but he wasn't THERE to do any seeing.

Stamets could see any point in the universe when he was connected to the drive. It's possible some part of him has been left behind at one of those points that can...look back at him.

That might also have something to do with their mirror universe jaunt.

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Stamets has this irascible exterior, but damn, he really listened to Burnham. He realized that the tardigrade was sentient and that they couldn't go on forcing it to operate as navigator of the spore drive. (Liked the explanation - that these things populate subspace and connect everything via some kind of understructure, quantum filament-type deal.) Really, really liking Stamets. Loved the "Freedom of the tardigrade" sequence. 

Lorca too. He's so badass he makes me wonder what his mirror version is like - either really nice or Emperor Palpatine's bruh, basically. And finally we get to see Lt. Ash! Bet he's a Klingon plant. He's been shagging a Klingon for six months, so maybe she turned him and all that fighting in the corridor was just play-acting to sell him to Lorca.

Saru and Burnham's conversation at the end was an excellent and satisfying bit of character development for both. 

Ooh, and profanity on Star Trek! Tilley, you're a badass too! 

Feels like Disco is really finding its feet. 

Edited by Robin Bland

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8 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Ooh, and profanity on Star Trek! Tilley, you're a badass too! 

That was a bold new first for ST; the F-bomb has been dropped...:laugh:

 

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Corylea   
6 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

That was a bold new first for ST; the F-bomb has been dropped...:laugh:

 

But the F-bomb was dropped to geek out over how cool the science was; it wasn't used in a hostile or aggressive fashion. I submit that using an F-bomb to be exuberant over cool science is, in fact, a very Trekkian usage of the F-bomb.  :)

Edited by Corylea

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2 minutes ago, Corylea said:

But it was dropped to geek out over how cool the science was.  That's sooooo great!  It wasn't used in a hostile or aggressive fashion; it was used to say that science is SO cool.  I submit that it's a very Trekkian usage of the F-bomb. :)

Agreed! :) 

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29 minutes ago, Corylea said:

But the F-bomb was dropped to geek out over how cool the science was; it wasn't used in a hostile or aggressive fashion. I submit that using an F-bomb to be exuberant over cool science is, in fact, a very Trekkian usage of the F-bomb.  :)

Seconded! :)

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*runs in* SO MUCH LORCA IN THIS EPISODE *flails wildly*

I liked this one, I really did. I'm still not keen on the idea of Mudd being there, but it could have been done a lot worse. There was a lot of respect for the original in the performance and I could see the parallels.

HOW RELATABLE IS LORCA THO WITH HIS EYES. I also need to constantly put something into my eyes, I can never go anywhere without my eye drops, and I soooo feel Lorca here, with his "turn off the lights!" hiss to the admiral and later his eyes acting up when he woke up and then him rubbing his forehead because pain in the eyes causes headaches. This is EXACTLY what it's like! Did they speak to someone with a chronic eye condition? Because they nailed it. Either someone knew this from their own experience or they talked to someone.

OH AND SHUTTLE PILOT WHO DIS

DiscoveryShuttlePilotWhoDis.png

Too bad he was only there for a few seconds, haha. But still pleasant to look at.

And I so ship Lorca/Tyler now. I don't trust Tyler at all, but I still ship it. The way Lorca came back for him and the way they looked at each other in the transporter room. :inlove:

 And bwahahahahahahaha, Lorca leaving Mudd behind! I liked that. I also like how he was ready to pick Mudd when the Klingon made him "choose your pain". HAHAHA

 I also enjoyed the non-Lorca parts of the episode, though... they finally realized Ripper is sentient and probably doesn't like it very much to be used in this manner so yay for them setting it free. And I adore the ending. We already know the mirror universe will play into this, so I guess this is some kind of hint.

Also, SO MUCH SARU this time. I enjoy seeing him in command. Not as much as Lorca tho

Anyways, good episode, this. Me like!

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9 hours ago, Corylea said:

But the F-bomb was dropped to geek out over how cool the science was; it wasn't used in a hostile or aggressive fashion. I submit that using an F-bomb to be exuberant over cool science is, in fact, a very Trekkian usage of the F-bomb.  :)

A little late, but thrirded...:P

1 hour ago, Mr.Picard said:

And bwahahahahahahaha, Lorca leaving Mudd behind! I liked that. I also like how he was ready to pick Mudd when the Klingon made him "choose your pain". HAHAHA

^
That was simply awesome.   Anyone else would’ve probably tried to rescue him, even Kirk.   But Lorca didn’t have two s#!ts to rub together for Mudd... I loved that!  :laugh:

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4 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

That was simply awesome.   Anyone else would’ve probably tried to rescue him, even Kirk.   But Lorca didn’t have two s#!ts to rub together for Mudd... I loved that!  :laugh:

Not Gabriel Lorca. He just flat out leaves Mudd behind because "you tried to sell us out, kthxbai". :laugh: This is why he is my favorite on this show. :laugh:

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11 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:


That was simply awesome.   Anyone else would’ve probably tried to rescue him, even Kirk.   But Lorca didn’t have two s#!ts to rub together for Mudd... I loved that!  :laugh:

I love that he did it, but think Lorca's going to regret that. Especially if Ash Tyler turns out to be planted by Klingons and it turns out he rescued the wrong guy. Especially if Ash turns out to be a surgically altered Klingon spy and that tribble Lorca's got freaks out ...but that would mess with continuity, wouldn't it? Maybe it's too obvious - but he was a Klingon's sexual plaything for six months...! All that corridor fighting could've just been to sell it to Lorca. I think they escaped too easily. That comment about "being glad to be back in the fight" could be taken different ways...

(I want Shazad Latif to be a good guy, though!) 

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1 minute ago, Robin Bland said:

I love that he did it, but think Lorca's going to regret that. Especially if Ash Tyler turns out to be planted by Klingons and it turns out he rescued the wrong guy. Especially if Ash turns out to be a surgically altered Klingon spy and that tribble Lorca's got freaks out ...but that would mess with continuity, wouldn't it? Maybe it's too obvious - but he was a Klingon's sexual plaything for six months...! All that corridor fighting could've just been to sell it to Lorca. I think they escaped too easily. That comment about "being glad to be back in the fight" could be taken different ways...

(I want Shazad Latif to be a good guy, though!) 

I don't trust that Tyler dude But I still ship him with Lorca they bonded so well ahem

BUT... I don't think Lorca trusts him either. Lorca is a master manipulator. He might SEEM all loving towards Tyler but if there's one thing we know about Lorca it's that, with him, things aren't always as they seem.

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20 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

I don't trust that Tyler dude But I still ship him with Lorca they bonded so well ahem

BUT... I don't think Lorca trusts him either. Lorca is a master manipulator. He might SEEM all loving towards Tyler but if there's one thing we know about Lorca it's that, with him, things aren't always as they seem.

This is true. It seems doubtful that Lorca would miss that possibility about Ash. 

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1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:

That was simply awesome.   Anyone else would’ve probably tried to rescue him, even Kirk.   But Lorca didn’t have two s#!ts to rub together for Mudd... I loved that!  :laugh:

I have to say, if it were me, given the way Mudd had already screwed me over and bearing in mind that we don't know how long he's been there, so, maybe he's let two....four...five people get beaten to death in the meantime while spying on them.

Oh, he can take a beating. I am definitely team Lorca there.

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