Mr.Picard

The Gabriel Lorca Topic (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

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10 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Thought you might enjoy this episode; my only worry was that you might squeal so hard you'd sprain something. :P:giggle:

Lorca is less ambiguous now; he makes more sense to me as a character.  That revelation truly put him in context.  When a person loses that much, sometimes they become hardened to the point where they seem unfeeling or uncaring.  

I would to see a flashback of Lorca before the incident.   What kind of man was he then?

I enjoyed it a LOT. My face hurts from grinning all the way through it, actually. :laugh: (I don't smile often enough I guess.)

It couldn't have been easy for Lorca to make that decision indeed. I'd love to see a flashback to the whole thing as well - how did he manage to blow his own ship up? Did he have consent from his crew (probably not)? How did he manage to blow it up and escape (this suggests that his crew DIDN'T know what he was doing)? Did he leave a bomb next to the warp core or something...? Hmm. I NEED TO KNOW

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I wonder if Lorca tried to go down with his ship, but he was taken off of it. He said that he escaped, but I wonder if the Klingons took him captive. I did have a feeling that he lost friends and crew and I was right. He seems like he cares about his crew, but remains somewhat unspoken about it. You can see that when he helps Tyler and also when he looks away when the Klingons are hitting him.

Possible spoilers below.

Also, I've seen theories that say that Ash Tyler is Voq in disguise.

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There’s something up with Ash.

I’m thinking Robin nailed it a while back with his guess that he’s some kind of Arne Darvin-surgically altered Klingon.   That’s something the Klingons were doing around this time as well.  Maybe it ties in with ENT and that augment DNA (?).   Even though the experiments were thought to be over, who’s to say if a rogue Klingon scientist figured out a way to make more new batches of ‘smoothies’ for infiltration work?   Maybe volunteers were placed high on the honor roll, hence the reason so many Klingons (such as Kor, Kang and Koloth) look that way; they volunteered on behalf of the war effort, but weren’t needed for infiltration work.

I’m just spitballing here...

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15 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

There’s something up with Ash.

I’m thinking Robin nailed it a while back with his guess that he’s some kind of Arne Darvin-surgically altered Klingon.   That’s something the Klingons were doing around this time as well.  Maybe it ties in with ENT and that augment DNA (?).   Even though the experiments were thought to be over, who’s to say if a rogue Klingon scientist figured out a way to make more new batches of ‘smoothies’ for infiltration work?   Maybe volunteers were placed high on the honor roll, hence the reason so many Klingons (such as Kor, Kang and Koloth) look that way; they volunteered on behalf of the war effort, but weren’t needed for infiltration work.

I’m just spitballing here...

Possibly. That's what I said above. It's a theory that I've seen, that Ash Tyler is Voq.

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2 hours ago, Enterprise Discovery said:

Possibly. That's what I said above. It's a theory that I've seen, that Ash Tyler is Voq.

The albino?  But... we just saw him in the last episode; that’s a bit soon, no? 

 

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7 minutes ago, Enterprise Discovery said:

The latest episode takes place weeks after the last episode. It's possible.

Possible perhaps, but unlikely.  But he became an expert in humans that fast?   At least L’Rell learned English through her family’s spy traditions, and she still has a thick Klingon accent.

I’d rather not have every other character be another character but in disguise; that’s nothing but a shell game.  

Why can’t Tyler just be a new character (human or Klingon spy) that we’ve not seen before?

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3 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Possible perhaps, but unlikely.  But he became an expert in humans that fast?   At least L’Rell learned English through her family’s spy traditions, and she still has a thick Klingon accent.

I’d rather not have every other character be another character but in disguise; that’s nothing but a shell game.  

Why can’t Tyler just be a new character (human or Klingon spy) that we’ve not seen before?

Well, it is just a theory. Who knows? I'm wondering if it's true, does Lorca know? If so, it'd be great if Lorca used him to find out more about the Klingons, if he is Voq.

Edited by Enterprise Discovery

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Corylea   
38 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

The albino?  But... we just saw him in the last episode; that’s a bit soon, no? 

 

I've read that the surname of the actor credited for Voq is the same as the REAL name of the actor who plays Tyler.  Voq is told that he'll have to give up "everything" in order to follow L'Rell's plan, and that would sure be "everything."

I'm hoping that Tyler ISN'T Voq, because the theory seems to be very popular with fans, and I'd like to see the writers surprise us. :)

 

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2 minutes ago, Corylea said:

I've read that the surname of the actor credited for Voq is the same as the REAL name of the actor who plays Tyler.  Voq is told that he'll have to give up "everything" in order to follow L'Rell's plan, and that would sure be "everything."

I'm hoping that Tyler ISN'T Voq, because the theory seems to be very popular with fans, and I'd like to see the writers surprise us. :)

 

I'm sure that we'll find out soon enough. I'm hoping that it doesn't take until the season finale to know. If Voq doesn't show up in the next episode, or two, I'd assume that he is Tyler, but then, people would notice that.

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3 minutes ago, Enterprise Discovery said:

Well, it is just a theory. Who knows? I'm wondering if it's true, does Lorca know? If so, it'd be great if Lorca used him to find out more about the Klingons, if he is Voq.

 

Just now, Enterprise Discovery said:

I'm sure that we'll find out soon enough. I'm hoping that it doesn't take until the season finale to know. If Voq doesn't show up in the next episode, or two, I'd assume that he is Tyler, but then, people would notice that.

Well, I suppose it’s possible, but I’d rather he just be some random Klingon spy we’ve not yet seen.   Seems like an awful lot of logistical tap-dancing to make that one fit..

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2 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

 

Well, I suppose it’s possible, but I’d rather he just be some random Klingon spy we’ve not yet seen.   Seems like an awful lot of logistical tap-dancing to make that one fit..

Star Trek series and films tend to bring up questions and discussion. It's great. I'm really enjoying this series and looking forward to the next episode. Each new one has been better than the one before it, to me.

Edited by Enterprise Discovery

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29 minutes ago, Enterprise Discovery said:

Star Trek series and films tend to bring up questions and discussion. It's great. I'm really enjoying this series and looking forward to the next episode. Each new one has been better than the one before it, to me.

I enjoyed this latest episode most of all (so far).  If they do get better and better, this has the potential to be one of the best ST series of all.

It’s also interesting to me that my opinion of Lorca changed 180 in just one episode; now that I know of his survivor’s guilt (his refusal to get eye treatment), he’s far more sympathetic to me.  And his decision regarding his crew and last command could not have been easy...

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Lorca will know there’s a Klingon spy aboard as soon as the guy steps into his ready room and Mr. Tribble starts shrieking. ;) 

But then, I’m pretty sure Lorca already knows there’s something shady about Tyler. It would be somewhat out of character for him to really be as sweet towards him as he pretended to be. At least I hope so and I hope that the writers won’t give him a “dumb moment of the week” plot here. That would be... unfortunate.

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6 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

Lorca will know there’s a Klingon spy aboard as soon as the guy steps into his ready room and Mr. Tribble starts shrieking. ;) 

Not necessarily; it’s not widely known yet that Klingons react badly to tribbles and vise versa.   That little revelation comes 10 years later in “Trouble with Tribbles.”  

My guess is that Lorca will dismiss his tribble as being a bit particular about its choice of company, nothing more.   Lorca would only become suspicious if there were other Klingons around for the tribble to respond to as well...

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Corylea   
9 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

Lorca will know there’s a Klingon spy aboard as soon as the guy steps into his ready room and Mr. Tribble starts shrieking. ;)

I hope not!  They shouldn't know that for another ten or eleven years.

 

9 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

But then, I’m pretty sure Lorca already knows there’s something shady about Tyler. It would be somewhat out of character for him to really be as sweet towards him as he pretended to be. At least I hope so and I hope that the writers won’t give him a “dumb moment of the week” plot here. That would be... unfortunate

Very much agreed.

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Who knows what kind of information Lorca has access to though? He might keep the Tribble in his ready room precisely BECAUSE he knows they’re natural Klingon detectors. I mean to him, an animal has to be useful to keep it around. ;) 

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4 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

Who knows what kind of information Lorca has access to though? He might keep the Tribble in his ready room precisely BECAUSE he knows they’re natural Klingon detectors. I mean to him, an animal has to be useful to keep it around. ;) 

Also true.   I mean, he has a Gorn skeleton, and ‘first contact’ with that species is 10 years off.

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Corylea   
8 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

He might keep the Tribble in his ready room precisely BECAUSE he knows they’re natural Klingon detectors. I mean to him, an animal has to be useful to keep it around. ;) 

Oooh, good point! :thumbsup2:

 

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I’m just speculating though, it’s equally possible Lorca just keeps the Tribble around because he likes to torture it by waving fortune cookies around in front of it without allowing it to eat them or something. lol 

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Corylea   
16 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

I’m just speculating though, it’s equally possible Lorca just keeps the Tribble around because he likes to torture it by waving fortune cookies around in front of it without allowing it to eat them or something. lol 

I get the impression that you're observing our dear captain VERY carefully. :biggrin:

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48 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

I’m just speculating though, it’s equally possible Lorca just keeps the Tribble around because he likes to torture it by waving fortune cookies around in front of it without allowing it to eat them or something. lol 

That’s also very much much in keeping with the character we’ve seen so far....:laugh:

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2 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

That’s also very much much in keeping with the character we’ve seen so far....:laugh:

I feel like he does care about his crew and probably his tribble, but doesn't show it. He probably doesn't try to become friends with anyone after losing his past crew.

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5 hours ago, Corylea said:

I get the impression that you're observing our dear captain VERY carefully. :biggrin:

It's all for science, I swear. Ahem. (I totally did not publish a NSFW Picard/Lorca fic yesterday, of course not, I'd never do that.) I just find him so incredibly interesting and refreshing. He's a JR Ewing in space, and I love it, I've wanted such a main captain forever. Someone who just ISN'T interested in any kind of ethical debate, someone who just ruthlessly pursues his goal (winning the war) regardless of ANYTHING or ANYONE.... ooooh he's so good. He speaks to my evil side and I love him for it. He's my kind of captain. I wouldn't want to actually be near him because he's the kind of guy who drags others down with him but I'd admire him from afar and make sure Jean-Luc doesn't find out because can you imagine the outrage

 

3 hours ago, Enterprise Discovery said:

I feel like he does care about his crew and probably his tribble, but doesn't show it. He probably doesn't try to become friends with anyone after losing his past crew.

Oh, he cares. I'm not saying he didn't care about his crew well enough to prevent them from falling into Klingon hands, but still, it's exactly like he says:

tumblr_oxxn1mHvJG1wcyh2ao1_500.gif

tumblr_oxxn1mHvJG1wcyh2ao3_500.gif

Note the word "MY". HIS crew. HIS ship. HE decides... and I'm not sure they had any say in it. ;) On his ship(s), it's either Lorca's Law or GTFO.

tumblr_ox8smx4aES1wcyh2ao6_r1_500.gif

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