Mr.Picard

The Gabriel Lorca Topic (SPOILERS INCLUDED)

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10 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

They just might have done me a favor with Lorca's fate - that network thing he was thrown into might not only have healed him but also caused him to jump in time... a perfect way to end up on the Enterprise-E in a certain other captain's bed, err, ready room, I mean ready room. :angel_not:

I wish they had made this Burnham's final episode as well. She could have chosen to sacrifice herself in a final battle with Georgiou, who also dies. Lorca is now the Emperor and hands the Discovery a shivering, haggard and beaten Prime Lorca before they leave. "Here's your real captain - he's as weak as you and your entire Federation". Done.

^

That is the very reason we have fanfic and mutlverses; to allow alternative ideas breathe.  

And yes, your idea for a Picard-Lorca 'ready room' meet sounds wonderfully X-rated ---er, I mean plausible. :angel_not:

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1 minute ago, Sehlat Vie said:

^

That is the very reason we have fanfic and mutlverses; to allow alternative ideas breathe.  

And yes, your idea for a Picard-Lorca 'ready room' meet sounds wonderfully X-rated ---er, I mean plausible. :angel_not:

It works incredibly well with a little random scene I wrote a little while ago!

 

Picard stared at the man who had just appeared out of nowhere in his ready room. He seemed tired and exhausted, and yet there was an aura of tension around him that made Picard wary - it was like looking at a wild animal that had been backed into a corner, ready to strike at any given point.

"Who are you?" Picard asked while he cautiously stood up from his chair.

The man looked at him and Picard could not help but notice a pair of extremely beautiful blue eyes.

"I'm Captain Gabriel Lorca. And who the hell are you?"

 

Weird. It's like as if I knew. :laugh: I'm so gonna use this, partly to comfort myself and partly because I'm still annoyed they didn't at least let him live until the end of the season. 

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1 hour ago, Mr.Picard said:

It works incredibly well with a little random scene I wrote a little while ago!

 

Picard stared at the man who had just appeared out of nowhere in his ready room. He seemed tired and exhausted, and yet there was an aura of tension around him that made Picard wary - it was like looking at a wild animal that had been backed into a corner, ready to strike at any given point.

"Who are you?" Picard asked while he cautiously stood up from his chair.

The man looked at him and Picard could not help but notice a pair of extremely beautiful blue eyes.

"I'm Captain Gabriel Lorca. And who the hell are you?"

 

Weird. It's like as if I knew. :laugh: I'm so gonna use this, partly to comfort myself and partly because I'm still annoyed they didn't at least let him live until the end of the season. 

Your intuition is uncanny...:thumbup:

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I was HOPING they'd give him a death that can be interpreted in a "he might have survived" way in fan fics, and they delivered.

Also, I find this interesting:

While Lorca’s situation in Season 1 is pretty well set, Isaacs said that “Season 2 is not scheduled. They’re writing it now. So who knows what they’ll come up with? If they come up with something that’s great for me, and I’m interested in doing it and they’re interested in it, then I’ll always have discussions, because I liked everybody so much and I had such a good time.”

 

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49 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

I was HOPING they'd give him a death that can be interpreted in a "he might have survived" way in fan fics, and they delivered.

Also, I find this interesting:

While Lorca’s situation in Season 1 is pretty well set, Isaacs said that “Season 2 is not scheduled. They’re writing it now. So who knows what they’ll come up with? If they come up with something that’s great for me, and I’m interested in doing it and they’re interested in it, then I’ll always have discussions, because I liked everybody so much and I had such a good time.”

 

With Lorca falling into a big ball of timey-wimey energy, I say anything could happen... who knows?   After all, this is Star Trek; the show that brought back Mr. Spock with the help of an alchemy torpedo, and educated a mentally blank Uhura back to college-level in a week.   What’s impossible??

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6 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

Well, time to cancel my Netflix account, I suppose...

While I'm with you that the show simply won't be the same without Lorca, this is also the show that gave us Lorca in the first place. Don't they deserve a chance to do something as good again?

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A couple of times one of the evil characters said something along the lines of I'm not going to give you an easy death. The emperor kept Lorca's followers in a the agony booths for months. I doubt that the emperor would have just quickly killed Lorca Prime if she caught him. If they want to bring Lorca Prime in it would be easy. The next Emperor found him in an agony booth, figured out he wasn't Mirror Lorca and let him go for some devious reason. 

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17 minutes ago, spectator said:

While I'm with you that the show simply won't be the same without Lorca, this is also the show that gave us Lorca in the first place. Don't they deserve a chance to do something as good again?

I will always be grateful for Lorca - he was the first Trek character I adored at first glance. I hold no grudge against the show, the writers did what they had to do with Mirror Lorca. (Just wish they had waited for the season finale.)

Of course they deserve all the chances, and I’m sure the Discovery section of the fandom will be eager to embrace them. I have always said that I’m not interested in Trek as a whole, however, and Mirror Lorca was the one in a million for me that made me watch the show despite my non-interest in it’s genre, Trek universe era and rest of the characters. I’m not saying it’s impossible they’ll pull something off again, I’ll glance at trailers for episodes if they introduce a new character, but that’s all for now. My interest has gone to zero, and it makes no sense for me to watch a show I’m not interested in. Trailers, sure. I’m not against the the show now, on the contrary, I wish it all the best.

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48 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

I have always said that I’m not interested in Trek as a whole, however, and Mirror Lorca was the one in a million for me that made me watch the show despite my non-interest in it’s genre, Trek universe era and rest of the characters.

Ah, ok- fair enough. I had extrapolated from your Picard interest that you were a fan of Trek in general.

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46 minutes ago, spectator said:

Ah, ok- fair enough. I had extrapolated from your Picard interest that you were a fan of Trek in general.

I only really love TNG - which I wouldn’t be watching either if it didn’t have Jean-Luc. So... same pattern. ;) 

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Also, since the Discovery can jump through time, it'd be really easy to have even mirror Lorca return. If they jump back to stop the fight with the Klingons, then Lorca could return. He'd probably get his command taken away quickly, which would leave him asking how they knew. Again, possibilities.

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I don't see evil Lorca making it back, if for no other reason, than Isaacs doesn't seem like he's too enthusiastic about the idea of being White Hat Lorca.

I wouldn't discount a return, but I wouldn't expect it to last long.

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23 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

I don't see evil Lorca making it back, if for no other reason, than Isaacs doesn't seem like he's too enthusiastic about the idea of being White Hat Lorca.

Sorry, you're confusing me. You don't anticipate more evil Lorca because Isaacs isn't into good Lorca?

:huh2:

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33 minutes ago, spectator said:

Sorry, you're confusing me. You don't anticipate more evil Lorca because Isaacs isn't into good Lorca?

:huh2:

Well, evil Lorca is well and truly incinerated, so unless they want to pretzel the multiverse to bring him back...okay, I guess.

Otherwise, it doesn't seem like Isaacs is interested in being a good guy in the show.

And I dunno how interested I am in them twisting things around again anytime soon. Otherwise it's a crutch, an admission that Burnam, and now, apparently, Saru, can't hold onto the show by themselves.

Or it turns into, Star Trek: Sliders, and, while it may be interesting, that's not what I was sold either.

 

PS, yeah, that other post of mine was missing bits. Sorry. :)

Edited by prometheus59650

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In a recent interview Isaacs DID say he wasn’t sure how interesting Prime Lorca would be to play. I mean he’s right, Mirror Lorca was such a sneaky force of nature that Prime Lorca would be in danger of looking somewhat boring in comparison.

But then, Isaacs is now very skilled at lying in interviews after having to hide the Mirror Universe thing for so long, people aren’t believing anything he says anymore. :laugh: 

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4 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

I only really love TNG - which I wouldn’t be watching either if it didn’t have Jean-Luc. So... same pattern. ;) 

Well, you kind of enjoy ENT too, right?  Or at least a couple of characters in it (Archer & Travis)? ;)

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2 hours ago, mr Pointy Ears said:

So if lorca is dead in both universe who will be discovery's captain now?.will they explain the prime universe lorca where about.

From the preview

Admiral Cornwall seizes control of Discovery with a boarding party. Presumably this doesn't work out well for Burnham. Her wartime draft into starfleet should be undone by the war ending and by her sponsor being an impostor. I expect that she'll be locked back up in the brig by Cornwall. With, presumably, a lack of ships, I doubt that they promote Saru rather than transferring over someone who has captain's rank as there would be a surplus of captains looking for jobs.

As for Prime Lorca, I get the impression from his After Trek appearance that we won't find out in the next two episodes. Whether they decide to sign Isaacs to a contract for season 2 should be an interesting story to watch.

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5 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

 

Well, evil Lorca is well and truly incinerated, so unless they want to pretzel the multiverse to bring him back...okay, I guess.

Otherwise, it doesn't seem like Isaacs is interested in being a good guy in the show.

And I dunno how interested I am in them twisting things around again anytime soon. Otherwise it's a crutch, an admission that Burnam, and now, apparently, Saru, can't hold onto the show by themselves.

Or it turns into, Star Trek: Sliders, and, while it may be interesting, that's not what I was sold either.

 

PS, yeah, that other post of mine was missing bits. Sorry. :)

Evil Landry and good Landry didn't seem all that different from each other. Maybe Lorca and Mirror Lorca are really similar except that Lorca won't kill people without a really good reason. He could play the character the same. Lorca has skeletons in his closet, same as Mirror Lorca. 

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5 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Well, you kind of enjoy ENT too, right?  Or at least a couple of characters in it (Archer & Travis)? ;)

Yes, but it’s more a casual thing. But yes, Archer and Travis are my main reasons for watching it. Same pattern, again, although by no means as strong as it is with TNG and Discovery - Archer and Travis are nice but they sure ain’t no Jean-Luc Picard or Gabriel Lorca. ;) 

1 hour ago, scenario said:

Evil Landry and good Landry didn't seem all that different from each other. Maybe Lorca and Mirror Lorca are really similar except that Lorca won't kill people without a really good reason. He could play the character the same. Lorca has skeletons in his closet, same as Mirror Lorca. 

That might sound somewhat interesting from an audience’s point of view, but would it be interesting for Isaacs? (He is a lot like Sir Patrick, he has the luxury to choose what roles he accepts, and he needs good reasons.) I mean he did a phenomenal job with Mirror Lorca being shady and yet also manipulative enough to pass as a Federation starship captain. If they make Prime Lorca similar to him, would this be interesting for Isaacs? He’d essentially have to play the same character again, only tuned down a bit or two. I’m not sure this holds a lot of fascination and if this wouldn’t diminish the job he did with Mirror Lorca. It might be just as meh as suddenly having to play a nice Prime Lorca. Isaacs has said that he got the impression that the Mirror characters aren’t THAT different from their Prime counterparts, however, so I do think Prime Lorca would be somewhat shady as well. Not sure if either option holds fascination for Isaacs tho. It all depends on the writing of the character, I suppose.

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5 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

Yes, but it’s more a casual thing. But yes, Archer and Travis are my main reasons for watching it. Same pattern, again, although by no means as strong as it is with TNG and Discovery - Archer and Travis are nice but they sure ain’t no Jean-Luc Picard or Gabriel Lorca. ;) 

Well, they make for a decent pacifier at times, right? :laugh:

5 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

That might sound somewhat interesting from an audience’s point of view, but would it be interesting for Isaacs? (He is a lot like Sir Patrick, he has the luxury to choose what roles he accepts, and he needs good reasons.) I mean he did a phenomenal job with Mirror Lorca being shady and yet also manipulative enough to pass as a Federation starship captain. If they make Prime Lorca similar to him, would this be interesting for Isaacs? He’d essentially have to play the same character again, only tuned down a bit or two. I’m not sure this holds a lot of fascination and if this wouldn’t diminish the job he did with Mirror Lorca. It might be just as meh as suddenly having to play a nice Prime Lorca. Isaacs has said that he got the impression that the Mirror characters aren’t THAT different from their Prime counterparts, however, so I do think Prime Lorca would be somewhat shady as well. Not sure if either option holds fascination for Isaacs tho. It all depends on the writing of the character, I suppose.

What if prime-Lorca was very different?   As wildly different from his mirror-counterpart as Kirk or Archer were from theirs?   At the very least, I would imagine him to be a deeply intelligent man, as his mirror-self could keep himself reigned in enough to pass in the prime universe (no easy feat).   And the fact he was assigned a science vessel so quickly after losing the Buran (was there the standard court-martial, I wonder?).    There could be some interesting character stuff there; a man who had a year of his life robbed from him by an imposter...what would that feel like?

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29 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Well, they make for a decent pacifier at times, right? :laugh:

What if prime-Lorca was very different?   As wildly different from his mirror-counterpart as Kirk or Archer were from theirs?   At the very least, I would imagine him to be a deeply intelligent man, as his mirror-self could keep himself reigned in enough to pass in the prime universe (no easy feat).   And the fact he was assigned a science vessel so quickly after losing the Buran (was there the standard court-martial, I wonder?).    There could be some interesting character stuff there; a man who had a year of his life robbed from him by an imposter...what would that feel like?

It really all depends on the writing. If Lorca was the centerpiece of the show (which he should be, sorry but not sorry), this would totally work. Or if they at least had every single character on the same level and gave each of them their fair share of character development treatment. But their "Burnham is the most important person on our show and we sideline everyone else, most of our bridge crew hasn't even spoken more than five lines in our entire first season" approach kinda makes a thoroughly-written version of this Lorca rather difficult to implement, IMO.

The "very different" thing is just difficult to do because Isaacs is right, the mirror characters aren't THAT different from the Prime characters, not on Discovery. It was wildly different on TOS and ENT because the characters weren't as "morally grey" as the Discovery ones already are. They aren't exactly like the characters from previous Treks, which is why their counterparts don't seem TOO outrageous in comparison, just more extreme and on an even darker path. I'm not sure a "super soft fluffy Prime Lorca" would fit into that narrative.

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3 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

It really all depends on the writing. If Lorca was the centerpiece of the show (which he should be, sorry but not sorry), this would totally work. Or if they at least had every single character on the same level and gave each of them their fair share of character development treatment. But their "Burnham is the most important person on our show and we sideline everyone else, most of our bridge crew hasn't even spoken more than five lines in our entire first season" approach kinda makes a thoroughly-written version of this Lorca rather difficult to implement, IMO.

The "very different" thing is just difficult to do because Isaacs is right, the mirror characters aren't THAT different from the Prime characters, not on Discovery. It was wildly different on TOS and ENT because the characters weren't as "morally grey" as the Discovery ones already are. They aren't exactly like the characters from previous Treks, which is why their counterparts don't seem TOO outrageous in comparison, just more extreme and on an even darker path. I'm not sure a "super soft fluffy Prime Lorca" would fit into that narrative.

I did find it very amusing that the Commander Landry we see in DSC earlier this season was NOT a mirror-character; she was just an ill-tempered creep. :laugh:

In fact, her mirror-counterpart smiled a lot more.

Nevertheless, I would like to see a prime-Lorca.   Who knows?  Maybe he’s still a bit shady, and that’s how mirror-Lorca had such an easier time of it.  :giggle:

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No Lorca in the latest episode. My guess for the next episode and season finale, is that prime Lorca shows up, possibly with mirror Burnham, having escaped the mirror universe. It's just a thought, especially with the latest episode mentioning that it'd be unlikely for someone to make it through the mirror universe by themselves. It would be a big way to end a season.

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36 minutes ago, Enterprise Discovery said:

No Lorca in the latest episode. My guess for the next episode and season finale, is that prime Lorca shows up, possibly with mirror Burnham, having escaped the mirror universe. It's just a thought, especially with the latest episode mentioning that it'd be unlikely for someone to make it through the mirror universe by themselves. It would be a big way to end a season.

Please let me know if he shows up. I’ll start watching the show again, then. ;) 

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