Corylea

Episode 1.4 "The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry" Discussion

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9 hours ago, Justin Snead said:

What we saw with the spore tech proves that classic rule of Trek storytelling: you can get away with anything if it's sufficiently geared into the plot and has heart. Seeing Lorca put the the spore drive in action to destroy those Klingon attack ships, after the triumph of Burnham's problem solving with the Tardigrade creature, combined with the fact that we are seeing the show's entire premise--that this ship will be able to go anywhere--being demonstrated, makes it very satisfying when we see the ship spin like a top. 

If it was as simple as a new kind of dilithium crystal that needed to be plugged into the warp core, we would not care. It's the gears of storytelling, and how they fit together, that can make us care, that can make us believe in the realism of an otherwise outlandish concept. There is a lot of comments like: "they didnt have to do it this way" "It didnt have to be a prequel" "Burnham's mentor did not have to be Sarek" "The alien threat did not have to be Klingons." Well, sure, Ok. The fact the remains that Discovery is all of those things. If you get hung up on what the story could have been, you miss the story they are actually telling.  

All of this.

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Finally managed to watch this one... I didn't like it as much as the previous episode but I still liked it better than the first two episodes.

 

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

SPOILERS

 

 

 

The Good Stuff:

- It was REALLY good to see Lorca in action. Like, REALLY REALLY REALLY good. I love the way he says "Black Alert". Yes, please. If he continues like this he'll become my second favorite captain in no time, haha. He's already overtaken Archer, and it's only a tiny step now to overtake Pike.

- And I SHIP LORCA AND STAMETS ARGHHHHHHHH FAN FIC I WANT FAN FIC WHERE IS IT

- Speaking of Lorca... why didn't they call this episode "Lorca's Little Monster"? That was the perfect line right there!

- LORCA LORCA LOOOORCAAAAAAAA did I mention LORCA yet :laugh:

 

The Meh Stuff:

- Everyone's totally cool with torturing that animal to make it navigate for them? Cool. Not Star Trek ish at all, but hey. Whatever. :P

- Are we making pointless security chief deaths a thing again? Not that I'm really that sad about this one, I already saw people shipping her with Lorca and didn't like that pairing even ONE bit

 

The Bad Stuff:

- Less Klingons, please. PLEASE. It's boring. Sorry, but it's boring. At least they had a bit of a Klingon-ish plot going on this time, what with "you betrayed me oh wait you didn't".

- I wish they would turn on the lights, just a little would be enough. I'm as sensitive to light as Lorca, and therefore my screen is REALLY on a dark setting and I can't see half of what's happening. Humph.

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9 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

Less Klingons, please. PLEASE. It's boring. Sorry, but it's boring. At least they had a bit of a Klingon-ish plot going on this time, what with "you betrayed me oh wait you didn't

At least it finally looks like they're about to do something with them this week.

But, I agree. Right now they're the weakest part of the series.

Edited by prometheus59650

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4 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

At least it finally looks like they're about to do something with them this week.

Yeah, at least that. I'm still not into them, though. (They could just as well have put TNG or TOS Klingons there and I'd be saying NOT THE KLINGONS AGAIN as well.) Ah well. As long as there's enough Lorca I'm not gonna complain too much. :P

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Corylea   
1 hour ago, Mr.Picard said:

 Everyone's totally cool with torturing that animal to make it navigate for them? Cool. Not Star Trek ish at all, but hey. Whatever. :P

I thought it was very clear from Burnham's face at the end of the episode that she was NOT cool with torturing the tardigrade, and I'm almost positive that we'll see more on this issue. 

I think they could make an interesting show about the moral dilemma, there, if they choose to.  All of the people on Corvan II would have died if they hadn't used the tardigrade.  Letting them die is wrong.  But torturing the tardigrade is also wrong.  Which of those courses of action is MORE wrong?  And if it turns out that the tardigrade is sentient -- and that seems likely to me, given that it can hold star maps in its head -- does that change the answer?

(And if you thought that torturing the tardigrade was more wrong than letting people die, do you eat meat?)

I didn't watch the previews of next week, but just from what I saw THIS week, I'm predicting that Burnham will say that they can't use the tardigrade again, Lorca will overrule her, and sparks will fly.  But maybe Lorca will surprise me.

 

And I SHIP LORCA AND STAMETS ARGHHHHHHHH FAN FIC I WANT FAN FIC WHERE IS IT

Well, get writing, boy! ;) The last time I looked to see what was happening in Discovery fanfic, it was mostly Burnham/Georgiou, but I imagine you can find readers for Lorca/Stanmets.  I personally think Burnham/Saru would be the most interesting, but not enough to actually write it. :)

 

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1 hour ago, Corylea said:

I didn't watch the previews of next week, but just from what I saw THIS week, I'm predicting that Burnham will say that they can't use the tardigrade again, Lorca will overrule her, and sparks will fly.  But maybe Lorca will surprise me.

I'll say that it's not up to Lorca and leave it at that.

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SPOILER

SPOILER

SPOILER

 

 

Burnham really looked like as if at least she wasn’t cool with using Ripper as the ship’s navigator indeed, but mostly after the deed had been done already. I’m not saying they should have let the people die either, no. It is an interesting moral dilemma, I guess I’m too used to a Trek that would have had a long debate about this before anyone did anything, haha.

Yeah there’s a lot of Georgiou/Burnham happening in the fic department. I can see Lorca/Stamets but also Lorca/Saru for myself. I need more information on the characters first though, I can’t write anything yet. But, maybe, at some point. ;) 

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Integral   

To those who say I hate the show... Yeah... It's a grind. The only reason why I put up with it is because of the title Star Trek. Thankfully there's only six more episodes to go and then I'm done- I don't wanna see another season.

I'm still cheesed off by Captain Georgiou dying. She was the only character I liked who had a nice Picard aura about her. But no- kill off the most interesting and endearing character... I mean why couldn't they have swapped it around- Jason Isaacs plays the Captain who dies in the pilot and Michelle Yeoh plays the Captain of the Discovery. Michelle Yeoh fitted into this show- despite its stupid, insane and inane moments. But Jason Isaacs... He's one of those classically trained British actors and he seems a bit lost with the material. He should work on paper but he doesn't...

Why wasn't Captain Georgiou the central/main character?

Watching this is like watching the abominable TNG season 1, except there are no endearing characters. No Picard or Worf or Data; even during the worst of TNG season 1 those three had some good moments in the middle of all the dreck.

/

With each episode I see some promising developments then the next scene happens and smashes whatever good things there are to pieces.

I liked the dynamic between Burnham and Georgiou in the 1st half of the pilot and that tense conversation was great. Then Burnham Vulcan death grips Georgiou. Oh God...

I loved seeing Georgiou fight and strategise her way through a battle. The Klingon Prophet stabs her right through the heart. Why waste such a great character?

I liked the notion of Burnham doing grunt work and of the Discovery being a science vessel coopted by military matters. The characters are either cold to snarky or just out of place (Burnham's roommate).

I liked the idea of a Starfleet Captain forcing his subordinates to do unethical things to a creature in the name of the war effort. The creature was actually a docile thing which just needed some spore-feeding; ugh, too easy. At least still make it act violent and aggressive even despite being fed correctly; at least get to act like a cornered, trapped animal would that's wild and wants to get out.

I liked the idea of a purely scientific starship... It's powered by spores and mushrooms... I still laugh at this.

/

This series cannot make up its mind or pull punches. It wants to go dark- then have that creature dissected and its remains used in the name of the war effort. That's exploration of Voyager's Equinox themes and let's go full on dark and gory Alien 3. Give it to me! Nope- it's edgy stuff without the impact to be dark nor the consideration to be lighter.

The series wants to go light- it's gets so fully on preachy, obvious and ridiculous that it places subtlety on a blazing neon sign. The problem here is the tone and the lack of intelligence on the part of the writers and story-tellers. They seemed to have forgotten the notion of humanity shining through the darkness, instead the writers are content with the murky depths. That's why every character is snarky, passive aggressive and cold in a monotone way. Adding humanity to the writing is very tricky because you need all kinds of characters to see this humanity and it means considering every situation very carefully in regards to context and feel.

You want edgy, dark, viseral and something with humanity- watch Prime Suspect. Watch a show which does this stuff right and with brilliant characters and story-telling.

Also, and maybe because I don't haven't watched any new TV series since oh... early 2000s, and what I have watched is nearly all pre 2000. But... Have TV series just got dumber in the last 15 years?

/

As for the technology and believability. At least warp drive (space-time folding) has been proven to be a method of propulsion- though at sublight speeds. At least scientists have teleported particles on the atomic level. At least replicators may be viable thanks to 3-D printers. At least padds and wireless communication is actually today's reality. The good old Star Trek took scientific and technological ideas and vastly extrapolated their progress and implications. Discovery is utter science mumbo jumbo... Seriously... A spore-powered warp drive.

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1 hour ago, Integral said:

To those who say I hate the show... Yeah... It's a grind. The only reason why I put up with it is because of the title Star Trek. Thankfully there's only six more episodes to go and then I'm done- I don't wanna see another season.

There are 15 episodes.

 

1 hour ago, Integral said:

Discovery is utter science mumbo jumbo... Seriously... A spore-powered warp drive.

Seriously.....a magic life torpedo...

 

And, I'm sorry, just because it makes more sense in your head...that doesn't make it any LESS fantastically impossible. 

As to shows getting dumber...I think it's just your perception.

Edited by prometheus59650

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Have enjoyed the 4 episodes so far but.........

If Dr McCoy was on this ship, he would resign his commission over the treatment of Ripper, or give the Captain a good earful Captain Sir. The navigation thing just felt wrong, not what we were taught by my stars of Trek.

The Georgiou hologram seemed to me to be  a kick in the balls to the Shatner appearance in 2009. Like the use of the mirror though, and the uniform coming out of the cupboard thingy.

Bored with the Klingon bits especially with the subs and yes they seem too made up to the effect there faces look like ill fitting masks.

Love the noises and effects though, just seems an era after TNG VOY and DS9 not decades before.

But will continue :)

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

Everyone's totally cool with torturing that animal to make it navigate for them? Cool. Not Star Trek ish at all, but hey. Whatever. :P

I think the regret and the empathy for the creature is coming soon.  

This is just a different type of ST; things are so spread out and serialized that it seems some longtime ST fans can’t see the forest for the trees.   It’s like "Devil in the Dark" ending with Spock about to mind-meld with the Horta. 

8 hours ago, Corylea said:

I thought it was very clear from Burnham's face at the end of the episode that she was NOT cool with torturing the tardigrade, and I'm almost positive that we'll see more on this issue. 

I think they could make an interesting show about the moral dilemma, there, if they choose to.  All of the people on Corvan II would have died if they hadn't used the tardigrade.  Letting them die is wrong.  But torturing the tardigrade is also wrong.  Which of those courses of action is MORE wrong?  And if it turns out that the tardigrade is sentient -- and that seems likely to me, given that it can hold star maps in its head -- does that change the answer?

I definitely see the tardigrade storyline evolving into something resembling a more familiar ST resolution.

6 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

Burnham really looked like as if at least she wasn’t cool with using Ripper as the ship’s navigator indeed, but mostly after the deed had been done already. I’m not saying they should have let the people die either, no. It is an interesting moral dilemma, I guess I’m too used to a Trek that would have had a long debate about this before anyone did anything, haha.

Moral dilemmas are what ST does best; but in the new delivery system, they’re just protracted a bit longer than one hour resolutions.   But I can understand some old time fans being frustrated.  Personally I don’t mind arcs in my Star Trek, as long as they’re well done.  So far, I’m liking what I’m seeing.

5 hours ago, Integral said:

I liked the dynamic between Burnham and Georgiou in the 1st half of the pilot and that tense conversation was great. Then Burnham Vulcan death grips Georgiou. Oh God...

First off, there IS no Vulcan death grip; it was a simple neck pinch to take her out of action for awhile.   No different than McCoy hypo-spraying Kirk and Spock in “The Empath” to relieve them from the burden of a decision they were reluctant to make.

5 hours ago, Integral said:

As for the technology and believability. At least warp drive (space-time folding) has been proven to be a method of propulsion- though at sublight speeds.

No it hasn’t.   Most theories for ‘warping’ of space require materials that don’t exist yet;  even Alcubierre’s ‘warp drive’ uses generous quantities of ‘exotic matter’ (i.e. unknown substances).  Who’s to say that unknown substance won’t involve spores?  All mass is essentially energy at some level anyway...

5 hours ago, Integral said:

Why wasn't Captain Georgiou the central/main character?

Because captain-centric ST has been done to death.  

Personally I like the idea of a show focusing on a central character who is not a captain; I find that I relate to it a little better.   It’s like the first week in an unfamiliar office, with established cliques and personality clashes.   And no one likes the boss...

5 hours ago, Integral said:

Also, and maybe because I don't haven't watched any new TV series since oh... early 2000s, and what I have watched is nearly all pre 2000. But... Have TV series just got dumber in the last 15 years?

Not really.  And with shows like the 2003 Battlestar Galactica, Doctor Who, Westworld, Humans and many others, I’d say it’s getting smarter.  You’re missing out.

4 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

And, I'm sorry, just because it makes more sense in your head...that doesn't make it any LESS fantastically impossible. 

As to shows getting dumber...I think it's just your perception.

^
Agreed. 
There are lots of fine shows out there.   Too many, if anything.   I always think I’m missing out not watching five or six shows recommended to me by friends/family.   And I don’t watch them for sheer lack of time, not because I know they’ll be terrible shows.

5 hours ago, Integral said:

I liked the idea of a purely scientific starship... It's powered by spores and mushrooms... I still laugh at this.

Yeah, because transporters and Genesis torpedoes make perfect sense.

5 hours ago, Integral said:

At least scientists have teleported particles on the atomic level.

They have teleported atomic information and photons ONLY.  Energy was teleported, not molecules.   Big difference.  

Long way off from beaming down to a planet without a receiving station...

5 hours ago, Integral said:

At least replicators may be viable thanks to 3-D printers

A replicator is essentially alchemy.  

A 3D printer will only make an object out of its source material.  If you fill it with plastic, you get a plastic object; not a metal or wooden one.   To say nothing of organic substances like foodstuffs.   Not congruent at all.  

3D printers make shapes or even tools if needed, but they’re no more a pathway to ST-style replicators than a fireplace is to a television set.   3D printing is an amazing technology; but it can’t make one substance into another (like clothing into food), and that is the miracle god-tech of replicators. 

6 hours ago, Integral said:

Discovery is utter science mumbo jumbo... Seriously... A spore-powered warp drive.

If you listened to Stamets, he made sense; all mass is essentially energy at a different state (Einstein proved this).  So what if you found a substance (i.e. a mass that interchangeable with energy) that travels between worlds and stars and resonates throughout the universe?   Personally I think it would’ve worked better with dark matter than spores, but whatevs. 

Honestly, it is no more ludicrous than so much of the pseudoscience seen on Star Trek in years past. 

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I must admit to some ambivalence about this episode. There were bits I didn't like, but I have to say that there was more that I enjoyed.

I think the new Klingons are kind of woeful. The make-up and new design just isn't working for me. I feel like those actors are working really hard to emote through those masks, and not quite managing it, and not through any lack of ability. Even with the ol' crab-heads and their extra teeth, that was never a problem. I appreciated the development of the characters, but some of those more romantic scenes cried out for subtleties that just weren't made available to them as performers via those cumbersome facial prosthetics. Voq especially, when he wasn't wearing his armor, looked like he had an outsized head perched on a little body. Try as I might, I'm not yet buying them, and those subtitled scenes seemed slow and laborious. I was always relieved when we switched back to the Discovery. Haberts said something about "You'll think we're breaking canon, but we're not," so I'm still hoping they'll at least address the visual differences between these and Klingons we've seen before later in the season, but the real problem is that the showrunners say they're bringing greater layering to Klingon culture and to my mind, they're actually preventing exactly that. Maybe this lot are from a different province on Quo'nos. 

I'm okay with the crazy science. I can't see how it's any less nutty than anything we've ever heard on Trek before. While Reka Sharma's death scene was totally telegraphed (I'm still kind of shocked by gore in Star Trek, but I reminded myself of TNG's Conspiracy) afterwards, I really enjoyed Burnham's problem-solving sequence and identification of the Tardigrade's true nature. Some nice echoes of Devil in the Dark, there. 

I'm really liking Lorca. Isaacs is clearly having a ball with this role, and I'm enjoying him enjoying himself. I like how we don't know how to take him as sinister or dedicated - or maybe both. Stamets is also really endearing himself to me. I loved the scene where he was wowed and enthused by Burnham's discoveries. It's the beginning of a beautiful friendship. 

Finally getting to see the Discovery fly with its whole new box of tricks and rescue the Dilthium mining colony was fun, though I'm not sure about the look of that that twisty folding-space thing it does. Toleja the saucer section would revolve, though. 

Indeed, there's a weird look to some of the cinematography in this show. What's with the super-fluorescent lighting that picks up every detail in the actor's make-up and skin? In that final scene, both Cadet Tilley and Burnham had every single pore and vein revealed in unflattering detail. 

But a lot of progression and incident, and much intrigue. Some of it felt very Trekkian to me - Stamet's protests to his captain, Burnham's remorse over the use of the Tardigrade - and some of it does not. Warmonger Lorca did not but at the same time, he is deeply intriguing, so I'm in. 

So far, I have some reservations, but I think I'm also getting used to the style of this new take on Star Trek. 

Edited by Robin Bland

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3 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

I'm okay with the crazy science. I can't see how it's any less nutty than anything we've ever heard on Trek before. While Reka Sharma's death scene was totally telegraphed (I'm still kind of shocked by gore in Star Trek, but I reminded myself of TNG's Conspiracy) afterwards, I really enjoyed Burnham's problem-solving sequence and identification of the Tardigrade's true nature. Some nice echoes of Devil in the Dark, there. 

^ All of this.

3 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

I'm really liking Lorca. Isaacs is clearly having a ball with this role, and I'm enjoying him enjoying himself. I like how we don't know how to take him as sinister or dedicated - or maybe both. Stamets is also really endearing himself to me. I loved the scene where he was wowed and enthused by Burnham's discoveries. It's the beginning of a beautiful friendship. 

^  Stamets is growing on me as well.   I thought I might not like him, but I enjoy how he fights on behalf of us science geeks, so... yay! :thumbup:

4 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Finally getting to see the Discovery fly with its whole new box of tricks and rescue the Dilthium mining colony was fun, though I'm not sure about the look of that that twisty folding-space thing it does. Toleja the saucer section would revolve, though.

You called it. ;)

5 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Indeed, there's a weird look to some of the cinematography in this show. What's with the super-fluorescent lighting that picks up every detail in the actor's make-up and skin? In that final scene, both Cadet Tilley and Burnham had every single pore and vein revealed in unflattering detail. 

Luckily we have a smaller (43”) TV and I wear glasses, so it wasn’t as apparent to me. :P 

I did see what looked like somewhat pronounced pimples on Tilly’s face (and I’m not trying to shame anyone here at all).  Given the character’s youth, that’s entirely possible.    I actually enjoy Mary Wiseman’s Tilly very much; she is nice audience avatar, and she adds a welcome splash of awkward humor to the serious tone of the show (so far).

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We get one of the best bridge entrances in this episode, when Lorca is running the battle simulation. I thought, this is how a bridge would actually be used. Not the staid, sitting back curled up in the big chair like a cat watching people quietly read monitors. It was much more dynamic than we are used to. I really am digging the look of these new bridges and how realistic they feel. 

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29 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Because captain-centric ST has been done to death.  

This. That's all Trek has ever been. Literally. Let's try something else.

And it's working. Also, it's not like Lorca is some faceless head in the foreground that they talk to. He is definitely a presence every bit as powerful as any captain before him.

17 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

   I actually enjoy Mary Wiseman’s Tilly very much; she is nice audience avatar, and she adds a welcome splash of awkward humor to the serious tone of the show (so far).

She's VERY necessary for that.

 

38 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

A replicator is essentially alchemy.  

A 3D printer will only make an object out of its source material.  If you fill it with plastic, you get a plastic object; not a metal or wooden one.   To say nothing of organic substances like foodstuffs.   Not congruent at all.  

3D printers make shapes or even tools if needed, but they’re no more a pathway to ST-style replicators than a fireplace is to a television set.   3D printing is an amazing technology; but it can’t make one substance into another (like clothing into food), and that is the miracle god-tech of replicators. 

All of this. A 3D printer re-forms its base material; plastic to plastic, metal to metal, edible to edible.

A replicator? Basically energy into anything. And that's not "science."

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Corylea   

I thought Tilly was a great idea on the writers’ part, because she’s such a marvelous contrast to Burnham; she’ll really help to point up what’s going on with Burnham.

Burnham is an experienced officer who’s had her whole world collapse on her, she’s full of guilt and self-blame, and she’s also been thrown under the bus by Starfleet. (Yes, she did commit mutiny, and she did deserve to be court-martialed for that. But she didn’t START the freaking war; T’Kuvma made it perfectly clear that he was bound and determined to start a war, no matter what the Shenzhou did.) Contrast that with Tilly’s young, gung-ho enthusiasm, and the script practically writes itself. :-)

I notice that they cast an actress who’s physically the opposite of Burnham — she’s redheadly pale, has long hair, and has a roundish face, so the contrast in their characters and situations is brought home to us all the more by the contrast in their physical appearance.

One guesses that Tilly herself may be sadder but wiser by the time Burnham — and the writers — are done with her. :-)  I can't wait to see how they use her.

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49 minutes ago, Justin Snead said:

We get one of the best bridge entrances in this episode, when Lorca is running the battle simulation. I thought, this is how a bridge would actually be used. Not the staid, sitting back curled up in the big chair like a cat watching people quietly read monitors. It was much more dynamic than we are used to. I really am digging the look of these new bridges and how realistic they feel. 

Yep! Loved that, too. It felt like a future workplace, not a comfy set. 

35 minutes ago, Corylea said:

I thought Tilly was a great idea on the writers’ part, because she’s such a marvelous contrast to Burnham; she’ll really help to point up what’s going on with Burnham.

Burnham is an experienced officer who’s had her whole world collapse on her, she’s full of guilt and self-blame, and she’s also been thrown under the bus by Starfleet. (Yes, she did commit mutiny, and she did deserve to be court-martialed for that. But she didn’t START the freaking war; T’Kuvma made it perfectly clear that he was bound and determined to start a war, no matter what the Shenzhou did.) Contrast that with Tilly’s young, gung-ho enthusiasm, and the script practically writes itself. :-)

I notice that they cast an actress who’s physically the opposite of Burnham — she’s redheadly pale, has long hair, and has a roundish face, so the contrast in their characters and situations is brought home to us all the more by the contrast in their physical appearance.

One guesses that Tilly herself may be sadder but wiser by the time Burnham — and the writers — are done with her. :-)  I can't wait to see how they use her.

Sylvia Tilly's great. And I love her physical difference to Burnham - Wiseman's body shape does not conform to the usual "Starfleet pajamas" clothes horse look. She's a slightly bigger girl, and damn, do we need to see that in the future too. 

1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:

^ All of this.

^  Stamets is growing on me as well.   I thought I might not like him, but I enjoy how he fights on 

Luckily we have a smaller (43”) TV and I wear glasses, so it wasn’t as apparent to me. :P 

I did see what looked like somewhat pronounced pimples on Tilly’s face (and I’m not trying to shame anyone here at all).  

No, me neither - but it must be a deliberate aesthetic decision on the part of the showrunners to point it up in the way they did. I happen to love the imperfections and many shapes us human beings wear - and as far as I'm concerned, it all needs representation. 

1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Given the character’s youth, that’s entirely possible.    I actually enjoy Mary Wiseman’s Tilly very much; she is nice audience avatar, and she adds a welcome splash of awkward humor to the serious tone of the show (so far).

Her wide-eyed smile and enthusiasm is a joy. 

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26 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

I happen to love the imperfections and many shapes us human beings wear - and as far as I'm concerned, it all needs representation. 

Me too.  Flawless people are boring. :laugh:

27 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Her wide-eyed smile and enthusiasm is a joy. 

I adore her, and what Mary Wiseman brings to the role. 

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Hammer   

Is Commander Landry part Pakled? Let's find out what makes Ripper so good at killing heavily armed Klingons... release the anesthetic and open the pen even though Ripper is still clearly awake! Ahhhh!

It's too bad, because I thought she had some good lines in the first episode (the first onboard Discovery) like "Starfleet says we have to feed the animals.... Who's hungry?"

How about Captain Lorca though... delaying the jump to spore warp and risking his crew just to get some extra damage in. He IS a warmonger. I think Stamets, Burnham Tilly and Saru are going to team up on 'Team Science' vs Lorca's 'Team Warmonger'

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Lorca is a warmonger, no doubt. Which makes him even more interesting, IMO. We definitely didn't have this kind of "main" captain before. (He reminds me of Benjamin Maxwell, btw - only Maxwell isn't as cunning and sneaky though, of course.)

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I love him okay

Also, did anyone else draw parallels between Lorca playing the messages throughout the ship and the scene in Jean-Luc's quarters in "Pen Pals" when Data "accidentally" (I have always questioned just how 'accidental' this is because yeah sure, he switches on the thing and a message sounds through, amazing coincidence, huh) switching on the frequency with Sarjenka's pleas for help/an answer? Very interesting, IMO.

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't like Tilly at all, everyone but me seems to be fond of her. She makes me severely uncomfortable because she's so overly emotional. I just can't deal with someone like her. She'd make me even more nervous and anxious than I already am and I'd just end up yelling at her to stop talking. Ack. I like her even less than Burnham.

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1 hour ago, Mr.Picard said:

 

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't like Tilly at all, everyone but me seems to be fond of her. She makes me severely uncomfortable because she's so overly emotional. I just can't deal with someone like her. She'd make me even more nervous and anxious than I already am and I'd just end up yelling at her to stop talking. Ack. I like her even less than Burnham.

I think that's partially why I like her. She's so recognizable - you really do encounter people like that in the workplace. Yeah, she's anxious, talks too much, is socially a bit clumsy. But she means well. And when it comes down to it, she's got your back. 

8 hours ago, Hammer said:

Is Commander Landry part Pakled? Let's find out what makes Ripper so good at killing heavily armed Klingons... release the anesthetic and open the pen even though Ripper is still clearly awake! Ahhhh!

That did come across to me like a moment of "I will be very, very dumb so as to service the plot."  

8 hours ago, Hammer said:

It's too bad, because I thought she had some good lines in the first episode (the first onboard Discovery) like "Starfleet says we have to feed the animals.... Who's hungry?"

How about Captain Lorca though... delaying the jump to spore warp and risking his crew just to get some extra damage in. He IS a warmonger. I think Stamets, Burnham Tilly and Saru are going to team up on 'Team Science' vs Lorca's 'Team Warmonger'

I think you're right, and it means Burnham's going to have to face being a mutineer again. 

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13 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

I think that's partially why I like her. She's so recognizable - you really do encounter people like that in the workplace. Yeah, she's anxious, talks too much, is socially a bit clumsy. But she means well. And when it comes down to it, she's got your back. 

 

I carefully avoid such people in the workplace. :laugh: (I'm just glad I work in IT now, where everyone just hides behind their computer and says nothing, lol.) I''m socially clumsy myself but more for the opposite reason, I don't really know what to say in the first place so I prefer saying nothing or it just comes out as totally not how I meant it because ugh, talking, can't I just write things down?

I guess Tilly just scares me. If I had to share a room with her I'd practically BEG Lorca to put me somewhere else. I'd rather sleep in Ripper's "cage"

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45 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

I think that's partially why I like her. She's so recognizable - you really do encounter people like that in the workplace. Yeah, she's anxious, talks too much, is socially a bit clumsy. But she means well. And when it comes down to it, she's got your back. 

When I was younger, I was a bit like her at times.  She’s awkward socially, but there’s an undercurrent of strength as well.  I have a feeling her arc might be as dramatic as Nog’s in DS9.  Remember the scene when they boarded the Glenn in 1.3 and she ORDERED that Klingon to come out of the shadows and show himself.  

I think that moment had a hint of the Tilly to come...

 

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8 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

When I was younger, I was a bit like her at times.  She’s awkward socially, but there’s an undercurrent of strength as well.  I have a feeling her arc might be as dramatic as Nog’s in DS9.  Remember the scene when they boarded the Glenn in 1.3 and she ORDERED that Klingon to come out of the shadows and show himself.  

I think that moment had a hint of the Tilly to come...

 

"You in the shadows. Show yourself!" 

Yeah, command material. 

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6 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

"You in the shadows. Show yourself!" 

Yeah, command material. 

When she confesses to Burnham that she intends to be a captain someday?  I believe her. 

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