Comiskeybum

Episode 1.3 “Context is for Kings” discussion thread.

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50 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Aren't Tribbles born pregnant? Why is this one not replicating itse;f all over Discovery?

Genetic modification perhaps, courtesy of Capt. Lorca’s chamber of horrors? 

50 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

No, this is... this is me agreeing with almost her whole article. This is very, very worrying.

Think of it this way; you’re not agreeing with her...she’s agreeing with you :laugh:.  

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1 hour ago, Integral said:

SPOILER:

 

Pro: Burnham seems a little more human.

We get to see Discovery.

The Captain is reasonably good.

 

Cons: So cold, so very, very cold!

Quantum level spores connecting the universe is the dumbing thing I have seen in Star Trek- and Star Trek has had its dumb moments.

Saying that quantum level spores enables some kind of transwarp drive... What?

The characters feel like something from today's time.

Too much SNARK!

Ginger-haired cadet lady- how the hell did she get through Starfleet Academy's pysche test? She seems WAY to fragile.

 

I found this episode cold and boring. The main characters don't have any light inside of them, they seem stuck on cold, frigid and annoyingly sarcastic. It can't just be explained away by the war, it's like even before the war they would come off sarcastic, cold and too serious. It's that classic TV/Film trap of creating "dark" and "edgy" stuff- make everyone into this monotone cold, tense and snarky personality. Too much GoT spiel...

I mean don't writers know that to make something dark you contrast it with the humanity: with goodness, with laughter and with sticking to principles? So by showing the lack of it really highlights the difference and has more of a gutpunch effect? Watch Gladiator or Braveheart, those are dark films but there is also a levity to them in general and a gutteral warm feeling- because the characters have humanity and a warmth... Maximus, William Wallace, Proximo... 

And the science... I don't want to know, it's that bad, I really, really have phased it out of my brain... Insanely stupid.

At least I could root for Burnham a little bit, but those first two episodes have murdered this character's storyline. There's no coming back from having seen such stupidity and reckless, which is why it is poor story-telling. The wrong things were shown and they shown in the wrong order.

This episode should have been the proper pilot and it should have had more meat to its bone. It also badly needed some levity, some humanity and some soul. Why is everything so blue? Why are the characters so monotone?

I'm watching this show to the bitter end, despite the feeling being so off...

In spite of the dark - which I too, was a bit wary of - I found quite a lot of humane elements in this one, particularly with fragile Tllly, whose intellect surely was what got her through the Academy no matter how much her snoring irritated her fellow students). And certainly those couple of exchanges between Saru and Burnham - those scenes really gave the episode a heart for me. It was otherwise, yes, dangerously dark for Star Trek, sometimes seeming to lack the requisite gentle intellectual curiosity that's informed every other iteration of the show (excepting perhaps the first two JJ movies). But it erred on just the right side for me - guess it's a matter of taste.

As for the science - at first I was, "What?" but it's no more absurd than any other theory of quantum entanglement. Why shouldn't microscopic spores have a greater catchment on the micro world than what we currently perceive? If there was a way of retracing their steps, if they were very, very old... I dunno, yeah, it's insane, but it also felt poetic, and left me wanting to know more. It's no more insane than disassembling a human body and sending it along a matter transmitter beam. 

1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Genetic modification perhaps, courtesy of Capt. Lorca’s chamber of horrors? 

I watched AfterTrek earlier, and it was shown to be [gasp]... dissected! But i clearly heard Tribble coos...

1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Think of it this way; you’re not agreeing with her...she’s agreeing with you :laugh:.  

You always know when to say the right thing. :dance:

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10 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

In spite of the dark - which I too, was a bit wary of - I found quite a lot of humane elements in this one, particularly with fragile Tllly, whose intellect surely was what got her through the Academy no matter how much her snoring irritated her fellow students). And certainly those couple of exchanges between Saru and Burnham - those scenes really gave the episode a heart for me. It was otherwise, yes, dangerously dark for Star Trek, sometimes seeming to lack the requisite gentle intellectual curiosity that's informed every other iteration of the show (excepting perhaps the first two JJ movies). But it erred on just the right side for me - guess it's a matter of taste.

As for the science - at first I was, "What?" but it's no more absurd than any other theory of quantum entanglement. Why shouldn't microscopic spores have a greater catchment on the micro world than what we currently perceive? If there was a way of retracing their steps, if they were very, very old... I dunno, yeah, it's insane, but it also felt poetic, and left me wanting to know more. It's no more insane than disassembling a human body and sending it along a matter transmitter beam. 

I thought the idea of an organic 'quantum drive' to be very original.   The kind of 'out-of-the-box' science that creates real-world breakthroughs.  It also vaguely reminded me of the VGR "Equinox" two parter where stranded Capt. Ransom was harvesting living creatures for warp energy.   

And yes, I found Burnham and Tilly to be almost mirror images of each other.  I love the dynamic; Tilly is eager and on her way up.  Burnham has been near the top and has fallen to earth.  Interesting pairing; they're at near-exact opposite points in attitude and career.  

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I find most of the *cold* aspects of this episode mostly to be the way that Burnham was treated, which of course isn't surprising. In most of the Discovery crew's eyes, she's a total pariah, one who screwed up in the most epic fashion. So it doesn't fully surprise me about how she was treated.

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I found the whole episode totally confusing and cadet tully,why would there b a cadet on a  highly classified and dangerous mission,dont think picard would had put Wesley in a dangerous situation.

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36 minutes ago, mr Pointy Ears said:

I found the whole episode totally confusing and cadet tully,why would there b a cadet on a  highly classified and dangerous mission,dont think picard would had put Wesley in a dangerous situation.

She had special qualifications and expertise.  It was also wartime.  Every and any able body needed...

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5 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

She had special qualifications and expertise.  It was also wartime.  Every and any able body needed...

It's not like they made her acting first officer or captain!

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6 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

It's not like they made her acting first officer or captain!

Right. 

And I recall Wesley piloting the ship during MANY dangerous missions; and that was in a time of peace

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50 minutes ago, mr Pointy Ears said:

I found the whole episode totally confusing and cadet tully,why would there b a cadet on a  highly classified and dangerous mission,dont think picard would had put Wesley in a dangerous situation.

Picard routinely put Wesley in danger. Not deliberately - but "whose damn idea was it putting children on a starship anyway?"

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3 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Picard routinely put Wesley in danger. Not deliberately - but "whose damn idea was it putting children on a starship anyway?"

hideandq_hd_288.jpg

Yep...

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10 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Oh dear. Picard really hated Wesley, didn't he? :confused:

Make him so...dead. :P

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1 minute ago, Vampire Kirk said:

I agree that this doesn't feel like Trek yet, but there are five other series' that the feel like Trek. I'm digging the differences.

Keep in mind these aren't standalone episodes, but very serialized. Things at the moment seem quite grim.

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5 hours ago, Integral said:

Quantum level spores connecting the universe is the dumbing thing I have seen in Star Trek- and Star Trek has had its dumb moments.

Saying that quantum level spores enables some kind of transwarp drive... What?

Is this REALLY any dumber than "magic life torpedo that brings back the dead?" 

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Just now, prometheus59650 said:

Is this REALLY any dumber than "magic life torpedo that brings back the dead?" 

Or red matter = black holes?  

Cold fusion (but not cold fusion) stopping volcanoes?

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1 minute ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Or red matter = black holes?  

Cold fusion (but not cold fusion) stopping volcanoes?

Magic pills that do your hair and makeup?

Activating all your latent genes doesn't insta-kill you?

A main deflector dish that could spray whipped cream if you need it to to save the day?

Star Trek is full of dumb science you sort of just have to buy to get along.

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Or transporters that turn people into kids or can bring you back even though you’re nothing but energy, etc etc. :laugh: 

Honestly, dumb/weird science that makes little to no sense is a TRADEMARK of Trek. I’d be miffed if it WASN’T there.

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12 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

Magic pills that do your hair and makeup?

Activating all your latent genes doesn't insta-kill you?

A main deflector dish that could spray whipped cream if you need it to to save the day?

Star Trek is full of dumb science you sort of just have to buy to get along.

 

2 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

Or transporters that turn people into kids or can bring you back even though you’re nothing but energy, etc etc. :laugh: 

Honestly, dumb/weird science that makes little to no sense is a TRADEMARK of Trek. I’d be miffed if it WASN’T there.

^
It’s pseudoscience.   There are occasional ‘real’ scientific ideas thrown in to make the technobabble a bit more convincing, but don’t think of an episode of ST as an issue of Scientific American.  It’s not.  It’s entertainment.

The spore warp drive actually has something to it in that matter and energy are interchangeable and that the universe (theoretically) contains spores traveling between worlds.  I think the ‘organic warp drive’ was basically tapping into this energy/mass that spans the universe and (somehow, via the magic of technobabble) making it some kind of conduit for travel. 

The fact that we’ve already seen the drive fail on the Glenn may also be one of the reasons we don’t see it in TOS or TNG; like TSFS’s ‘transwarp’ drive, it dead-ended. 

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6 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

Or transporters that turn people into kids or can bring you back even though you’re nothing but energy, etc etc. :laugh: 

Honestly, dumb/weird science that makes little to no sense is a TRADEMARK of Trek. I’d be miffed if it WASN’T there.

Don't forget transwarp drive that makes you evolve into - a salemander?

Yeah, there were a lot of absurd things in Trek, some things I just can't wrap my head around. I'm not too fond of them myself.

2 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

 

^
It’s pseudoscience.   There are occasional ‘real’ scientific ideas thrown in to make the technobabble a bit more convincing, but don’t think of an episode of ST as an issue of Scientific American.  It’s not.  It’s entertainment.

The spore warp drive actually has something to it in that matter and energy are interchangeable and that the universe (theoretically) contains spores traveling between worlds.  I think the ‘organic warp drive’ was basically tapping into this energy/mass that spans the universe and (somehow, via the magic of technobabble) making it some kind of conduit for travel. 

The fact that we’ve already seen the drive fail on the Glenn may also be one of the reasons we don’t see it in TOS or TNG; like TSFS’s ‘transwarp’ drive, it dead-ended. 

Good point there. I mean, this attempt at propulsion might not work at all, which is why we don't see it in canon. Or do we?

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Has everyone forgotten the Genesis Device? That was the biggest reordering of science over biology I can think of in Trek canon. Totally crazy, but I bought it.

Maybe this spore-field instaneous quantum-shift thingie ended up as the unstable protomatter in the Genesis Device's matrix wot got Kirk Jr. killed (ironically) by a Klingon. 

You can join all the dots if you wanna. 

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Sim   

Funny bit I didn't know: A friend who's into gardening told me he loved they called the scientist Paul Stamets -- as the real Paul Stamets is "the Pope, the Messiah and the Santa Claus of funghi breeding and mykology". He's read two books by him. :laugh:

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Yes, The new Trek, like the old, honors real, living people by naming a character after one. I think that's great. Geordi was named after George LaForge, IRRC and I'm sure there are other examples. 

Another thing I've been pondering - tonal change again - everyone we've met so far feels like someone doing their job - a tough job. There's a verisimilitude to the characters and the overall mood; the way they're presented. It's beautiful and slickly filmed, moreson perhaps than any previous Trek, but the characters are all presented with the tics and foibles modern human beings have. hence Sylvia Tilley's nervous ramble, Lorca's vision impairment (and choice to keep it), Burnham's bleak resignation to her situation, even Saru's embarrassment about his involuntary evolutionary responses. The characters are imperfect, and really, really nicely detailed and brought to life by every actor. Great care has gone into creating those character subtleties. This is something I really appreciate and am looking forward to seeing develop. 

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7 hours ago, Robin Bland said:

Has everyone forgotten the Genesis Device? That was the biggest reordering of science over biology I can think of in Trek canon. Totally crazy, but I bought it.

Maybe this spore-field instaneous quantum-shift thingie ended up as the unstable protomatter in the Genesis Device's matrix wot got Kirk Jr. killed (ironically) by a Klingon. 

You can join all the dots if you wanna. 

Genesis was essentially alchemy, but throw In a few well-placed pseudoscientific bits of gobbledygook and voila; it sounds vaguely reasonable.  I can buy spore-based warp drive the same way.

And as Rusty pointed out above, there's probably a good reason we never hear from it in later canon.   My guess is that it dead ends; just as Excelsior's transwarp drive failed and was replaced by a conventional warp system.   

SPOILERISH TALK

 

Lorca's seeming obsession with spore-based warp may become some kind of Ahab-like obsession with him.  Maybe it drives him to really dark places within his own psyche.  There's hints that he's not too stable; maybe subconsciously he sought a disgraced mutineer because he knew, on some level of his mind that still wants a functional fail safe, that she could stand up to him if he truly crosses the line (which he might've already done).

I'm guessing that may be the ticket to Burnham's eventual redemption; having to stop her mentally unstable captain who crosses the line in favor of his experiments.  In fact, for all we know, Lorca's little menagerie of horrors may also be one of the reasons for Starfleet's permanent ban on genetic engineering, aside from the Eugenics Wars (which happened before Starfleet was even chartered).

On the other hand, I hope they don't dismiss Lorca too easily or quickly; he's a potentially fascinating character.  

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SPOILER

SPOILER

SPOILER

SPOILER

 

 

I really hope Lorca will stick around for a while. I like him QUITE a lot and I want to learn a lot more about him. I know that he'll eventually probably be kicked out of the captain's chair and probably also the next airlock (or he becomes "kitty food", hah) but I hope it'll take a while for this to happen. I'm totally Team Lorca, I'm not even sorry. He just SPEAKS to me. :P

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