Comiskeybum

Episode 1.3 “Context is for Kings” discussion thread.

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OK wow.  Spoilers ahead!!!

 

 

 

 

So are they trying to duplicate Iconian gateway tech? Seemed very similar and I dont see how there cannot be a connection.  Obviously these experiments will fair since yanno, that tech isnt readily available by the time TNG comes around.  

 

Unless of course we're not in the prime timeline.

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Ep3-7.jpg

 

Please place warnings for spoilers!   

 

A non-spoilerish first impression.

I liked it, but it wasn’t entirely satisfying because of its deliberate serialized format.   Individual episodes are going to be less than whole unto themselves and more like chapters in a book.   The tone was a lot more “The Expanse” than “Star Trek”, and I’m not quite sure how I feel about that yet.   I like ST and The Expanse for what they are, but I’m not sure if I enjoy the mixing of so much darkness into ST (yet).  

However, this is a series in flux; it’s not like other ST pilots that were more or less set after the pilot episode.  I’m thinking that the whole of DSC S1 is just one long extended pilot episode.  The ‘real’ show will start in earnest in S2.

I also think Sonequa Martin-Green’s Burnham is showing glints of her eventual redemption and despite negative fan-lash online, I’m still Team Michael.   I think she’s going to have a lot of naysayers eating crow by S2.  Once again, the serialized format is like watching one frame of the opening of a horse race and trying to guess which horse will win.   

Loved her roomate Tilly, too.  

Capt. Lorca comes off a bit evil-ish.  Definitely missing the warmer tones of Capt. Georgiou at this point, though I’m pretty sure that’s by the show’s design. Lorca feels like an ambiguous stepdad than a Picard or Kirk.

Lt. Stamets may be an acquired taste, but we’ll see; I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.   Maybe when we see him with his husband Dr. Hugh Culber (Wilson Cruz), some of that edge will soften a bit.  Hope so. 

The USS Discovery looks magnificent on screen.  Seriously, there was some jaw dropping ship porn in this episode.   Her austere interior is not too out of step with the Kelvinverse Enterprise or even the darker, less colorful Enterprise interiors of TOS’ "The Cage."  Though the overuse of holographic interfaces and other tech continually reinforces my nagging belief that this series would’ve worked a LOT better as a post-VGR sequel but that’s neither here nor there at this point.

However, I’m still onboard for whatever may come. 

 

 

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You can delete my similar thread if you want, or merge it. 

 

Spoilers!!!!

 

Anyway, are they trying to duplicate Iconian gateway tech?  Seems there has to be a connection there.  I love it so far.

Edited by Comiskeybum

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Well anyways, I'll be honorable and hide my spoilers in hidden content tags.

Spoilers are hidden in hidden content!

Finally we are introduced to the titular ship, the USS Discovery. As expected, it's a brand new ship - as one of the inmates said, "fresh off the assembly line."

The treatment of Michael Burnham was very well done. Here we have probably a pariah, reviled even among people who are going to prison for other things. It's not surprising that there are many who would want her head for the stunt she pulled in the previous episodes. Especially when no one wants anything to do with her, sort of like how many people looked down upon Ensign Ro Laren in the TNG 5th season epsiode "Ensign Ro" (though Ensign Ro's infraction pales in comparison to Burnham's). Can't say I blame them either.

Unlike the other two episodes, this one ACTUALLY has a TV-MA rating - and you can see why, seeing all those twisted corpses on board the Discovery's sister ship, the USS Glenn (obviously named for astronaut John Glenn).

I like how the chief of security is a woman, a good update on gender roles, and someone who doesn't take crud.

It's nice that Burnham has gained some respect by the end of the episode, especially after helping save the lives of the away team that they were a part of.

Cadet Tilly is a good addition to the cast, I like her character, as does my mom and sister, as they hope she's not killed off. I presume she'll be learning a lot from Burnham since the two are roommates together.

The wild card in all of this has to be Captain Lorca. What's he up to? His autonomy has allowed him to re-instate Burnham to some extent (we do see her wearing the uniform again down the line). He has a pet tribble, which is interesting to say the least. His type of bio-propulsion system, or whatever he's doing is rather interesting too. I wonder what becomes of it? Does it work? Does it not work? And for that matter, what's with him and that monster animal that he beamed off from the Glenn before the ship was scuttled (which we saw in the preview thinking it was the Discovery that got it)? He's an obviously cryptic character.

Edited by Rusty0918

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First impressions...

 

SPOILER(ish)

 

...Again, it didn't feel very "Trek," but at the same time I thought it got a whole lot more interesting. Some weird SF concepts, a good bit of character development (loved the scenes between Saru and Burnham). Tilly is a new kind of regular character for Star Trek - much more "Lower Decks" than we've ever seen before, and it worked, softening many of Michael's harder edges. Michael: I don't care how cool you are, you wouldn't quote Alice in Wonderland/Through the looking Glass while being chased by a massive, savage, monster carnivore through a Jeffries tube. Nobody would. (Buy yay! A Jeffries tube!) Lorca: uh-oh. Little bit Fassbender-in-ALIEN Covenant there at the end. Do we need that in Star Trek? Do we need the body horror of the warp/travel accident on The USS Glenn? This seems a slightly obvious and crass way of saying, "Hey, we're more adult than those older shows." Nice way of doing a bottle episode, though. Two different ships, same sets. Stamets: wow. Another spikey character. They all seemed spikey. No-one in this Starfleet except Saru has a sense of humor. 

I came away more intrigued than last week, and I liked the brother/sister thing going on with Burnham and Saru. As a whole, it now feels as if the story has begun, especially with the introduction of the Discovery herself. She looks so much more advanced than TOS' Enterprise, though. That old "This should've been set post-VOY" feeling kicks in again. It felt like a much more confident, fluent episode than the previous two - I was bummed when it was over so quickly.  

 

I like not knowing what's going on. 

Edited by Robin Bland

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Amazing episode. Mild spoilers ahead but nothing plot-related really.

I love the crew immediately. The performances were far above what we're used to, as is the production quality.

31 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Do we need that in Star Trek? Do we need the body horror of the warp/travel accident on The USS Glenn? This seems a slightly obvious and crass way of saying, "Hey, we're more adult than those older shows."

There are plenty of gory precedents set by earlier Trek. They did what they could get away with.

Looking for some examples of body horror in Star Trek? See TMP or ENT: Strange New World when the transporter malfunctions, or TNG: Genesis, Conspiracy, or anything involving the Borg. The Borg are so grotesque as an idea but because we're so used to them, we're desensitized. But make no mistake; they count as extreme body horror, and that's not even counting the psychological horror of what the individuals taken in by the Borg go through. Then there's VOY: Course: Oblivion which I think is far far far far more disturbing than anything we've seen on Discovery, and one of my favourite Trek episodes, period.

And what about the Vidiians? Or Crewman Daniels, when different parts of his body existed at different ages? Or VOY: Scientific Method which makes my skin crawl just thinking about it?

It is interesting to me that the deaths of countless "redshirts" (dehumanized by the title, even) are shrugged off and can fit into peoples' definition of Trek so easily, and yet Discovery is being criticized for showing the weight of these wounds. Isn't it more disturbing that previous Trek series dealt with these themes so patly?

Also, the accident on the USS Glenn is extremely reminiscent to me of the accident on the USS Pegasus.

Edited by doctor_odd
spoiler warning added

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Wow. Okay, wow. I'm pleasantly surprised that a) I managed to watch the episode already and b) I actually really LIKED what I saw. A LOT more than ANYTHING I saw in the pilot episode(s) - except for Georgiou, of course. She became an immediate favorite and I'm still angry that the show isn't about her. *shakes fist*

 

SPOILERS

 

SPOILERS

 

SPOILERS

 

SPOOOOOILEEEEERRRRRSSSSSSSS

 

 

Pro:

- They actually brought in the two elements the show NEEDED for me to be interested in watching it: Another genre I like AND a character I can adore. They did EXACTLY what they had to do, at least for me.

- The genre they brought in was horror, my favorite genre, and everyone knows that, even though I may not be interested in sci-fi, I am always down for some nice sci-fi horror. And this was nicely done.

- The character they brought in was Lorca. I so wanted to like him, and I do. (I guess I can trust my instincts, I really had ALL the feelings that I'd like him.) I adore how different he is from the other captains. He's DARK. And I MEAN dark. AND HE KEEPS A TRIBBLE IN HIS READY ROOM. THIS IS MY KIND OF CAPTAIN. EXACTLY MY KIND. I love the Tribble in his ready room although I'm not sure the poor thing will survive very long, he's probably gonna feed it to his other "pet". lol

- Lorca's eyes are sensitive to light due to an injury he picked up or something? Did I hear that correctly? I'm sure this will be significant in some way sooner or later, but I just loved it because SAME, DUDE, SAME. (I have a chronic eye illness that makes me sensitive to light as well, and my eyes would adore Lorca's dark ready room. I feel represented, finally! This also explains why it's so freaking dark aboard the Discovery, I guess... and not just figuratively speaking.)

- I loved the Alien³ feeling I got when Burnham walked into the mess hall. Nice reference.

- Also, Alien Resurrection reference when Lorca visits his pet. It just reminded me of the scientists and their Alien Queen. I like how this show shamelessly steals from the Alien franchise when it comes to visuals, the constant zooming in and out of the ship is another reference, Alien Resurrection uses this, too.

- Stamets. I like him already. So arrogant, so cold. I like arrogant and cold characters, what can I say. I also have a feeling he ISN'T as cold and arrogant as he comes across, given how much he cared for his dead friend. Oh and I love how he's totally not a fan of Lorca. I'm writing the hate!fic already

- Speaking of fan fic... PLEASE I NEED LORCA/SARU. I NEEEEEED IT. I must have scenes with them. I literally squealed when Saru went on about "protecting my captain". THIS IS THE KIND OF CAPTAIN/FIRST OFFICER PAIRING I ADORE PLEASE GIVE ME MORE OF IT. *shakes the writers* PLEAAAAAASEEEEEE

- Saru, again. He doesn't get many scenes or lines, but he nails the ones he has. Doug Jones is amazing. Can we have a show about Saru instead of Burnham, please?

- The TNG fan in me spotted the "Genesis" reference with the Jefferies Tubes chase, and the TNG fan in me approved.

 

 

 

Whatever:

- The female Barclay cadet. I'm not sure yet if I like her or find her incredibly annoying. What's a cadet doing aboard a starship anyway isn't she supposed to be at the Academy or something

- If I were a Trekkie I would be seriously WTF about this. I'd hate all the darkness and the Section 31 undertones and whatnot. I mean it's pretty clear that there's something going on that won't become public knowledge in the future, and I can think of only one organization behind all this. (I don't like them AT ALL on DS9 or ENT, but wouldn't mind them here, strangely enough. They fit the tone of the show.) In short: This whole thing doesn't feel like Star Trek to me, and I'd probably be somewhat angry about that. It's a new interpretation of the whole thing, and I'm not sure I'd be down for it - it's RADICALLY different from what the franchise used to be. I can actually see why many Trekkies cling to the past with The Orville instead.

-  I also like not knowing what's really going on. Serialized formats do this these days, and as long as they don't pull a LOST and nothing makes sense anymore after a few seasons, I'm okay with it. They wouldn't have HAD to do it, but I don't mind it either.

 

Khan:

- I still don't like Burnham. At all. I don't feel sympathetic towards her and I don't care what she does, when she does it, how she does it. She's entirely unlikable, sorry. I'm totally not on board here and she could still sink the show for me. Martin-Green is great, don't get me wrong, but the character is utterly blergh to me. But maybe this show pulls a "Walking Dead" on me (haha the irony, I liked Sasha) and manages to make the other characters so likable that it doesn't matter that I don't like the main one (I don't like Rick, but I like many of the others).

- There were a few plot holes I guess but meh, there was horror and there was Lorca, and I'm okay with overlooking plot holes when there's horror and an attractive and mysterious captain for me to raise my eyebrows at. :P

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Sim   

Wow. Just watched the episode with my wife, and we totally loved it.

 

 

SPOILERS:

 

Yes, it's much darker in tone than previous Star Trek ... but all the elements that are there to make it dark have precedents in Star Trek: Like someone said above, we had the USS Pegasus, the military interest in the WMD capacities of the Genesis project, conspiracies in the fleet, twisted bodies and so on ... nobody can say these dark elements are not in Star Trek's DNA. Except it's much more explicit this time. So despite the unfamiliarly dark tone, it's all very familiar! :thumbup:

My first thought wasn't "Pegasus" (well okay, that too), but Project Genesis. Biology on the submolecular level? Sounds like Genesis.

I love how shades of grey the characters are, and the entire situation. Still no flawless, morally superior hero around. But is this truly Star Trek? What about the moral optimism? At least there are hints that Burnham will, despite her questionable past, uphold a moral standard and "do the right thing" in the end -- not because she's a flawless character, but as part of her personal learning curve. That's a great idea. If that's going to happen, it won't be entirely without precedent either, think of Riker in "The Pegasus".

The hostility Burnham meets after boarding the Discovery reminds me of what they were trying to do with Tom Paris at first, but failed to keep up.

So, this all is very much Star Trek, IMO!

Also, this episode was really thrilling and gripping. At least it felt so to me. I liked the first two episodes already, but the show IMO made another huge leap forward and I'm beginning to love it -- at very least, I'm absolutely hooked now.

And Burnham herself? I already find her much more sympathetic than in the first two episodes. (Last week, I was more like "let's see where they are going with her", but now, I even start sympathizing with her).

Only complaint: That quoting of Alice in Wonderland, like her attempts at poetry last week, are campy. Please stop it.

 

Also noticed that this episode is 48 minutes. Guess the short runtime of the first two episodes was indeed just because they were on regular network tv.

Edited by Sim

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1 hour ago, Mr.Picard said:

Wow. Okay, wow. I'm pleasantly surprised that a) I managed to watch the episode already and b) I actually really LIKED what I saw. A LOT more than ANYTHING I saw in the pilot episode(s) - except for Georgiou, of course.

^
This pleases me a whole lot, and I applaud your open-mindedness. :thumbup:

2 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

- Saru, again. He doesn't get many scenes or lines, but he nails the ones he has. Doug Jones is amazing.

And Doug Jones is also a ridiculously nice person, too!  Met him 5 years ago, and he was so friendly and open.  I’m over-the-moon excited that he is associated with Star Trek.  Been a fan of his since the Hellboy movies (he was Abe Sapien), as well as “Pan’s Labyrinth.” 

2 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

- The genre they brought in was horror, my favorite genre, and everyone knows that, even though I may not be interested in sci-fi, I am always down for some nice sci-fi horror. And this was nicely done.

The tone was a bit dark for what I was hoping for, but remembering the very serialized format, I tried to keep in mind that I was watching ONE moment in a 13-part pilot.   That made it easier for me to accept the abruptness of the horror movie feeling.   Even TOS kicked off with the ‘monster-on-the-loose’ story of “Man Trap.” 

 

7 hours ago, Robin Bland said:

Michael: I don't care how cool you are, you wouldn't quote Alice in Wonderland/Through the looking Glass while being chased by a massive, savage, monster carnivore through a Jeffries tube. Nobody would. (Buy yay! A Jeffries tube!) 

Yeah, that scene was a bit much, but then again Picard and the kids sang “Frere Jacques” while escaping a turbo lift.   I take it that Burnham was reliving a ‘comfort memory ‘ (from Amanda) that allowed her to better tackle and control her own fear, and given how little we know of Vulcan mental techniques?  I gave it a shaky pass...:P

There are kids who sing favorite songs during storms, etc. (my sister in the midwest can probably vouch for that; especially when she’s babysitting my niece’s kids).

7 hours ago, Robin Bland said:

I like not knowing what's going on. 

^
This is the most exciting part.   Seeing the whole 13 part introduction come together as one lengthy ‘pilot novel’ rather than a perfunctory meet-and-greet of all the characters and a nice ‘this-is-how-it’s-going-to-be’ format hammered out by the end of the 90 minutes. 

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One thought on the "darkness" of this Star Fleet. 

Human cultures change over decades. But organizational culture can change (and chance back) in a few years or even a few months. Imagine if you were an Army or CIA officer in 1992, after which the cold war had been won using techniques honed in the post-WWII era, a culture that had a certain code of honor about how you do spycraft, how you treat prisoners of war, rules of engagement about what a prisoner of war even is. Now imagine that officer jumping 10 years through time to 2002, and you are asked to waterboard some poor guy who was sent to your blacksite just because his neighbor wanted to get the Sunni out of his neighborhood. 

So I'm fine with a darker Star Fleet, so long as there are characters like Burnham who remember how it used to be and struggle to return to those values.     

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7 hours ago, doctor_odd said:

Amazing episode. Mild spoilers ahead but nothing plot-related really.

I love the crew immediately. The performances were far above what we're used to, as is the production quality.

There are plenty of gory precedents set by earlier Trek. They did what they could get away with.

Looking for some examples of body horror in Star Trek? See TMP or ENT: Strange New World when the transporter malfunctions, or TNG: Genesis, Conspiracy, or anything involving the Borg. The Borg are so grotesque as an idea but because we're so used to them, we're desensitized. But make no mistake; they count as extreme body horror, and that's not even counting the psychological horror of what the individuals taken in by the Borg go through. Then there's VOY: Course: Oblivion which I think is far far far far more disturbing than anything we've seen on Discovery, and one of my favourite Trek episodes, period.

And what about the Vidiians? Or Crewman Daniels, when different parts of his body existed at different ages? Or VOY: Scientific Method which makes my skin crawl just thinking about it?

It is interesting to me that the deaths of countless "redshirts" (dehumanized by the title, even) are shrugged off and can fit into peoples' definition of Trek so easily, and yet Discovery is being criticized for showing the weight of these wounds. Isn't it more disturbing that previous Trek series dealt with these themes so patly?

Also, the accident on the USS Glenn is extremely reminiscent to me of the accident on the USS Pegasus.

All true enough. (And so many examples for an off-the-cuff set of impressions as opposed to a review! I feel positively chastened. Did we agree on any of the other points? I came away with largely a very positive impression of this episode.) I recall being genuinely horrified by the transporter accident in ST:TMP when I first saw it - and that was much more a matter of suggestion. It's a question of tone, really, how things are presented and Discovery goes out of its way to present itself as a mature new take on Star Trek, much as TMP did back in the day. I can totally comprehend the producers' desires to distinguish this show from any that's gone before. To refine my own thoughts about the "body horror," it's a matter of tone. Vie says in his own blog post that he goes to Trek to find something optimistic, some "light at the end of the tunnel," and I do too. So that tonal shift feels somewhat at odds with what's gone before, that's all. However, I totally respect any storyteller's choice to use whatever they have in their tonal palette to tell their tale. It's their choice, not the audience's. 

44 minutes ago, Justin Snead said:

One thought on the "darkness" of this Star Fleet. 

Human cultures change over decades. But organizational culture can change (and chance back) in a few years or even a few months. Imagine if you were an Army or CIA officer in 1992, after which the cold war had been won using techniques honed in the post-WWII era, a culture that had a certain code of honor about how you do spycraft, how you treat prisoners of war, rules of engagement about what a prisoner of war even is. Now imagine that officer jumping 10 years through time to 2002, and you are asked to waterboard some poor guy who was sent to your blacksite just because his neighbor wanted to get the Sunni out of his neighborhood. 

So I'm fine with a darker Star Fleet, so long as there are characters like Burnham who remember how it used to be and struggle to return to those values.     

As an explanation, that makes perfect sense to me. I'm growing to like Michael - as they give her more experiences, we get more depth to her, especially in those great scenes with Tilly, which worked really well. they were the small, human moments around the big mission, and showing Micheal's experience alongside the raw young cadet's humanized her wonderfully. And the darkness of Lorca and his crew - Stamets excepted, who was very vocal in his displeasure of the situations he finds himself in - was intriguing. 

1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:

^
This pleases me a whole lot, and I applaud your open-mindedness. :thumbup:

And Doug Jones is also a ridiculously nice person, too!  Met him 5 years ago, and he was so friendly and open.  I’m over-the-moon excited that he is associated with Star Trek.  Been a fan of his since the Hellboy movies (he was Abe Sapien), as well as “Pan’s Labyrinth.” 

The tone was a bit dark for what I was hoping for, but remembering the very serialized format, I tried to keep in mind that I was watching ONE moment in a 13-part pilot.   That made it easier for me to accept the abruptness of the horror movie feeling.   Even TOS kicked off with the ‘monster-on-the-loose’ story of “Man Trap.” 

Again, I think maybe this is us getting used to the direction and methods of this new show. 

Quote

Yeah, that scene was a bit much, but then again Picard and the kids sang “Frere Jacques” while escaping a turbo lift.   I take it that Burnham was reliving a ‘comfort memory ‘ (from Amanda) that allowed her to better tackle and control her own fear, and given how little we know of Vulcan mental techniques?  I gave it a shaky pass...:P

There are kids who sing favorite songs during storms, etc. (my sister in the midwest can probably vouch for that; especially when she’s babysitting my niece’s kids).

Fair point. Picard in the turbo lift is Trek of old, this moment glared because they'd so far taken such pains to establish a gritty, dramatic tone. Burnham quoting Carroll (and I recognised it instantly) both made me laugh and see it as a bit tricksy. They're signaling she's going down the rabbit hole, and us with her. Okay. There's a thing like a huge Scott/Cameron-esque alien monster behind you while crawling at speed down a darkened Jeffries tube! It came across to me as a bizarre and unintentionally funny moment, but Martin-Green played it impeccably. 

Quote


This is the most exciting part.   Seeing the whole 13 part introduction come together as one lengthy ‘pilot novel’ rather than a perfunctory meet-and-greet of all the characters and a nice ‘this-is-how-it’s-going-to-be’ format hammered out by the end of the 90 minutes. 

They are teasing out story elements, developing characters and taking their time to tell it all slowly, so the overall shape of the audience's comprehension of the story changes with each new installment. That's how they said they were going to do it, and that's what they're doing, in admirable fashion with this episode. I really enjoyed that. 

 

Edited by Robin Bland

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Also - I didn't think I was going to like the design of the Discovery with those overlong nacelles, but she looked magnificent in flight, especially coming to the rescue of the prison shuttle. That was a genuine ship "hero" moment, especially when contrasted with the later fate of sister ship the Glenn. 

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3 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Also - I didn't think I was going to like the design of the Discovery with those overlong nacelles, but she looked magnificent in flight, especially coming to the rescue of the prison shuttle. That was a genuine ship "hero" moment, especially when contrasted with the later fate of sister ship the Glenn. 

OH MY GOODNESS, that ship was one sexy beast, wasn't she?  

I don't even CARE how weird that just sounded; it's true...:thumbup::laugh:

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1 minute ago, Sehlat Vie said:

OH MY GOODNESS, that ship was one sexy beast, wasn't she?  

I don't even CARE how weird that just sounded; it's true...:thumbup::laugh:

Huge big mothership. That's what I wanted. Every Trek show has a character that is "home" - the 1701, the 1701-D, DS9, Voyager, the NX-01, and now Discovery. 

Another slight niggle: what was the "Kitty" monster? Some kind of huge Klingon Targ? If that was its handler shushing the Feds, boy, did he ever let his dog get out of hand. I guess we'll find out at some point. This is me aligning myself with the new format to the storytelling. You don't get a nice wrap-up at the end. Instead you get more mystery, and Lorca's great and mystifying speech. So for a show with this name, that's all good. 

Iconian or similar methods of transport using organic spores - I'm all in. Seems more late 24th century again, but I love the idea that undermatter is all the same, so what separates the "living" from the inert? Reckon this idea is going to be explored in much greater detail, and that really caught my attention. 

8 hours ago, Rusty0918 said:

Well anyways, I'll be honorable and hide my spoilers in hidden content tags.

Spoilers are hidden in hidden content!

 

  Hide contents

 

...

The wild card in all of this has to be Captain Lorca. What's he up to? His autonomy has allowed him to re-instate Burnham to some extent (we do see her wearing the uniform again down the line). He has a pet tribble, which is interesting to say the least. His type of bio-propulsion system, or whatever he's doing is rather interesting too. I wonder what becomes of it? Does it work? Does it not work? And for that matter, what's with him and that monster animal that he beamed off from the Glenn before the ship was scuttled (which we saw in the preview thinking it was the Discovery that got it)? He's an obviously cryptic character.

 

 

And I just wanted to say... what's up with that pet tribble? It seemed innocuous at first, but then you see how he treats Kitty - as an asset. Is he Dr. Moreau, with all this organic experimentation? Seems very likely this will feed into the overarching Klingon storyline... 

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47 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Another slight niggle: what was the "Kitty" monster? Some kind of huge Klingon Targ? If that was its handler shushing the Feds, boy, did he ever let his dog get out of hand. I guess we'll find out at some point. This is me aligning myself with the new format to the storytelling. You don't get a nice wrap-up at the end. Instead you get more mystery, and Lorca's great and mystifying speech. So for a show with this name, that's all good. 

I’m still not sure.    Maybe the Klingons were genetically mucking with Targs to use as weapons (?).   We know they have no qualms with genetic engineering (ENT “Affliction/Divergence”).  At first, I thought it was some kind of creature from ‘spore space’ or what have you.   But I think it’s more to do with the Klingons and (possibly?) their genetic experiments. 

And yes, I like that everything doesn’t have to be so neatly wrapped up in a bow by the end.   Some mysteries remain mysterious. 

50 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

And I just wanted to say... what's up with that pet tribble?

I’m hoping Lorca had it fixed, otherwise this show will take a very awkward turn into comedy next week.

Unless of course...

****SPOILER****

 

 

 

 

Lorca uses them as Hungry Beast Chow.  :ohmy:

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SPOILER

SPOILER

SPOILER

 

I can't wait for the scene with Lorca in front of his "kitty cage" and he has the pet tribble and then just looks at it and is like "bye" and then throws it inside. Because that's what Lorca would totally do. :P 

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4 hours ago, Sim said:

And Burnham herself? I already find her much more sympathetic than in the first two episodes. (Last week, I was more like "let's see where they are going with her", but now, I even start sympathizing with her).

I don't know if I'm that far yet, but she's certainly acting more human.

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1 hour ago, Mr.Picard said:

 

SPOILER

SPOILER

SPOILER

 

I can't wait for the scene with Lorca in front of his "kitty cage" and he has the pet tribble and then just looks at it and is like "bye" and then throws it inside. Because that's what Lorca would totally do. :P 

:laugh:

 

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10 hours ago, doctor_odd said:

Amazing episode. Mild spoilers ahead but nothing plot-related really.

I love the crew immediately. The performances were far above what we're used to, as is the production quality.

There are plenty of gory precedents set by earlier Trek. They did what they could get away with.

Looking for some examples of body horror in Star Trek? See TMP or ENT: Strange New World when the transporter malfunctions, or TNG: Genesis, Conspiracy, or anything involving the Borg. The Borg are so grotesque as an idea but because we're so used to them, we're desensitized. But make no mistake; they count as extreme body horror, and that's not even counting the psychological horror of what the individuals taken in by the Borg go through. Then there's VOY: Course: Oblivion which I think is far far far far more disturbing than anything we've seen on Discovery, and one of my favourite Trek episodes, period.

And what about the Vidiians? Or Crewman Daniels, when different parts of his body existed at different ages? Or VOY: Scientific Method which makes my skin crawl just thinking about it?

It is interesting to me that the deaths of countless "redshirts" (dehumanized by the title, even) are shrugged off and can fit into peoples' definition of Trek so easily, and yet Discovery is being criticized for showing the weight of these wounds. Isn't it more disturbing that previous Trek series dealt with these themes so patly?

Also, the accident on the USS Glenn is extremely reminiscent to me of the accident on the USS Pegasus.

Don't forget the bizzareness of what happened to that Kazon ship in the Voyager episode "State of Flux," or perhaps the creepiest one - which is in a FAN FILM no less - New Voyages / Phase II's "Blood and Fire."

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7 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

 

SPOILER

SPOILER

SPOILER

 

I can't wait for the scene with Lorca in front of his "kitty cage" and he has the pet tribble and then just looks at it and is like "bye" and then throws it inside. Because that's what Lorca would totally do. :P 

He would, I think...:P

3 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Well, as they say; even a broken clock is right twice a day... :laugh:

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29 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

He would, I think...:P

Aren't Tribbles born pregnant? Why is this one not replicating itse;f all over Discovery?

29 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Well, as they say; even a broken clock is right twice a day... :laugh:

No, this is... this is me agreeing with almost her whole article. This is very, very worrying.

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This has a spoiler so I'm putting it in hidden tags again:

I do admit this biological transportation thing does make my head scratch. In some ways it reminds me a bit of the "transwarp beaming" we saw in "Star Trek: Into Darkness," something that I thought was way too over-the-top and absurd.

Does it ultimately work? We don't know. My guess says it doesn't work, but who knows?

Another little thing is intraship beaming (site to site) - in TOS's "Day of the Dove," it's mentioned it's risky. However, that being said, it's pretty much implied that Discovery is brand new. The Enterprise on the other hand has been around for more than a decade at this point in time, lower registry number notwithstanding.

 

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Integral   

SPOILER:

 

Pro: Burnham seems a little more human.

We get to see Discovery.

The Captain is reasonably good.

 

Cons: So cold, so very, very cold!

Quantum level spores connecting the universe is the dumbing thing I have seen in Star Trek- and Star Trek has had its dumb moments.

Saying that quantum level spores enables some kind of transwarp drive... What?

The characters feel like something from today's time.

Too much SNARK!

Ginger-haired cadet lady- how the hell did she get through Starfleet Academy's pysche test? She seems WAY to fragile.

 

I found this episode cold and boring. The main characters don't have any light inside of them, they seem stuck on cold, frigid and annoyingly sarcastic. It can't just be explained away by the war, it's like even before the war they would come off sarcastic, cold and too serious. It's that classic TV/Film trap of creating "dark" and "edgy" stuff- make everyone into this monotone cold, tense and snarky personality. Too much GoT spiel...

I mean don't writers know that to make something dark you contrast it with the humanity: with goodness, with laughter and with sticking to principles? So by showing the lack of it really highlights the difference and has more of a gutpunch effect? Watch Gladiator or Braveheart, those are dark films but there is also a levity to them in general and a gutteral warm feeling- because the characters have humanity and a warmth... Maximus, William Wallace, Proximo... 

And the science... I don't want to know, it's that bad, I really, really have phased it out of my brain... Insanely stupid.

At least I could root for Burnham a little bit, but those first two episodes have murdered this character's storyline. There's no coming back from having seen such stupidity and reckless, which is why it is poor story-telling. The wrong things were shown and they shown in the wrong order.

This episode should have been the proper pilot and it should have had more meat to its bone. It also badly needed some levity, some humanity and some soul. Why is everything so blue? Why are the characters so monotone?

I'm watching this show to the bitter end, despite the feeling being so off...

Edited by Integral

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