Sehlat Vie

Episode 1, 2, “Vulcan Hello”/“Battle at the Binary Stars” discussion thread; spoilers allowed, but with WARNINGS

Recommended Posts

Discussion thread for the first two episodes of DSC, “Vulcan Hello” and “Battle at the Binary Stars.”   

Please place warnings AHEAD of any major spoilers! 

 

Just want to throw down a few, non-spoilerish impressions: 

* Looks like the Kelvinverse, but ‘feels’ like the prime timeline.   A nice, streamlined mix of both.

* Michael Burnham (Sonequa Martin-Green) IS the show’s lead; there is no disputing that.

* The Klingons look more like their Kelvinverse counterparts; for better or worse.  Personally I think they look more ‘alien’ but others might disagree

* The action is much more visceral than regular ST; the TV-14 rating isn’t entirely unearned.

* Lots of nice nods, touches, references, and even sound FX nods to TOS woven into this new series’ DNA.   


Looks modern, but definitely has the ‘soul’ of Star Trek.

 

Overall?  I loved it!  I think it’s a nice compromise between old and modern.   Love the serialized format too; really keeps you on the edge of your seat.  No sedentary, ‘all is groovy now' codas where everything is neatly wrapped in a bow for next week.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very good opener. Enjoyed the second episode better than the first. The Klingons worked nicely so far.

But those couple of times where Burnam waxed poetic about the beauty of the galaxy? Clunky as all get out. She needs to not do that anymore.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well this was definitely more like it, and considerably better than the J.J. reboot and its sequels.

As with Sehlat Vie, yeah there were TOS sound effects. There were also TNG sound effects too if you listen closely.

I know some might be put off by the look. I'm not. Yes it may look a bit like the JJ-Trek although the sets are anything but super-bright. They actually have a darker tone, which nicely adds to the nitty-gritty of the series.

Now to SPOILERS!

Michael Burnham is a very different character than we're used to seeing in Trek. A vast departure from the NuKirk, she's not a captain but is placed up for it by her current captain, Georgiu (or however you spell her name). However, she performs a number of actions that ultimately lead up to a court-marital and life imprisonment as per the end of "Battle of the Binary Stars." I noticed her rank is full commander in this - she obviously gets reduced in rank when re-activated by Captain Lorca eventually. Her transgressions make what Tom Paris did in Voyager look like mild infractions.

The opening scene was a nice touch, exploration on an alien world. Miles better than what we had in ST:ID with that whole Enterprise underwater thing. THIS worked much better. Not to mention the aliens that Georgiu and Burnham were helping look much more alien.

I like the lampshade about the Shenzhou being an old ship, especially with that unique crude transporter room that the Vulcans state is inefficient.

I was hoping to see the Discovery herself by the end of the second episode, but I guess you can't get your way all the time. At least we only have to wait seven days (and I have other things to pass the time in between that week span).

From the preview at the end of "Battle at the Binary Stars," it seems like Burnham is more or less a pariah, a hated person for the stunts she pulled that led to this newfound war with the Klingons. She has a long path to redemption, beyond the shadow of a doubt. Captain Lorca is definitely taking a chance with Burnham on this as well (I wonder how her commission gets reactivated, after what occurs). It's quite possible she might not be back in active service by the third episode, or even the one after that. It's not going to be an easy "rest button" for her, and that's not a bad thing.

I have to say this is probably the best of the Trek pilot episodes, at least that's what I think now.

Edited by Rusty0918

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
C.Lovett   

I have to say that is this one awesome series and can't wait for more episodes, but man it sucks to be Michael Burnham! (Normally I would agree with the main hero's/heroine's plan in Star Trek but I going to side with Captain Georgiu, that was not a good move Michael!)

Image result for ouch gif

 

Edited by C.Lovett

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not seen the second episode just yet but the first one was pretty good. Decent pilot thus far. I'll give a deeper review when I see part 2.

Although ... no contact with Klingons for nearly a century ...? So ... immediately after ENT they disappeared?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, C.Lovett said:

I have to say that is this one awesome series and can't wait for more episodes, but man it sucks to be Michael Burnham! (Normally I would agree with the main hero's/heroine's plan in Star Trek but I going to side with Captain Georgiu, that was not a good move Michael!)

Image result for ouch gif

 

She screwed up hard and deserved what she got.

I see no reason whatsoever, given what she went to the ready room to have that conversation with Sarek about that she couldn't have brought Georgiou in on it aside from "plot requires only Burnam know what the right thing to do is."

2 minutes ago, The Founder said:

I have not seen the second episode just yet but the first one was pretty good. Decent pilot thus far. I'll give a deeper review when I see part 2.

Although ... no contact with Klingons for nearly a century ...? So ... immediately after ENT they disappeared?

They probably decided Porthos was the living incarnation of Fek'lahr and ran away.

Edited by prometheus59650

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

Well this was definitely more like it, and considerably better than the J.J. reboot and its sequels.

As with Sehlat Vie, yeah there were TOS sound effects. There were also TNG sound effects too if you listen closely.

I know some might be put off by the look. I'm not. Yes it may look a bit like the JJ-Trek although the sets are anything but super-bright. They actually have a darker tone, which nicely adds to the nitty-gritty of the series.

Now to SPOILERS!

 

  Hide contents

 

Michael Burnham is a very different character than we're used to seeing in Trek. A vast departure from the NuKirk, she's not a captain but is placed up for it by her current captain, Georgiu (or however you spell her name). However, she performs a number of actions that ultimately lead up to a court-marital and life imprisonment as per the end of "Battle of the Binary Stars." I noticed her rank is full commander in this - she obviously gets reduced in rank when re-activated by Captain Lorca eventually. Her transgressions make what Tom Paris did in Voyager look like mild infractions.

The opening scene was a nice touch, exploration on an alien world. Miles better than what we had in ST:ID with that whole Enterprise underwater thing. THIS worked much better. Not to mention the aliens that Georgiu and Burnham were helping look much more alien.

I like the lampshade about the Shenzhou being an old ship, especially with that unique crude transporter room that the Vulcans state is inefficient.

I was hoping to see the Discovery herself by the end of the second episode, but I guess you can't get your way all the time. At least we only have to wait seven days (and I have other things to pass the time in between that week span).

From the preview at the end of "Battle at the Binary Stars," it seems like Burnham is more or less a pariah, a hated person for the stunts she pulled that led to this newfound war with the Klingons. She has a long path to redemption, beyond the shadow of a doubt. Captain Lorca is definitely taking a chance with Burnham on this as well (I wonder how her commission gets reactivated, after what occurs). It's quite possible she might not be back in active service by the third episode, or even the one after that. It's not going to be an easy "rest button" for her, and that's not a bad thing.

I have to say this is probably the best of the Trek pilot episodes, at least that's what I think now.

 

 

^
Pretty much mirrors my thoughts on the pilot.

As far as pilots go?  This was one of, if not the most entertaining ST pilot I’ve seen since “The Cage.” 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

They probably decided Porthos was the living incarnation of Fek'lahr and ran away.

Head_canon_accepted.gif

Edited by The Founder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kenman   

I really enjoyed both episodes. Solid opener to a new Trek.  I do think that the Klingons look a little too "Generic Alien" to me.  Look about as generic alien as Idris Elba in Beyond.  But I like what they did with em story wise, so I won't complain too much.  Same kinda goes for the new uniforms...I think they are bland and ugly in the end...but that is nitpicky, because I rather like the people in the suits so far. 

I am in for the show. It feels like Star Trek, feels like it wants to explore characters and the human condition, in new modern ways. Right on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had no idea this was going to be on tv until earlier today. I thought this was an online thing only. 

 

SPOILERS?

I missed the first 12 minutes. Overall, I liked it. Kinda interesting to place the brunt of the ep on the first officer rather than the captain. Also enjoyed that although they seem to have a healthy history, the captain and the first officer were at odds. That's definitely different for Trek. 

While glad to have Michelle Yeoh on board, I was also surprised to hear the ship's name as something Chinese. Is this a marketing appeal to China? Things like these are not happenstance. 

I liked the Klingon look. It wasn't 'alien with a different forehead of the week'. 

I liked the overall look. I'm concerned about cost. It really looks like a big screen release.

Sarek. Well, whadayaknow? Just hope they don't continue 'name dropping' characters and references without having a solid reason to have them there just to appeal to fanbase. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it was absolutely phenomenal, and elsewhere on the internet I have to wonder if I'm living in the same universe as the critics.

It makes me really happy that you lot seem to agree with my positivity. My whole family got together to watch the pilot like old times and when, at the end of the credits, it said "based on Star Trek created by Gene Roddenberry" I lost it. I couldn't contain myself, and I didn't expect to react so viscerally. I was so embarrassed, but I turned to my brother and we had both burst into tears. 

It was perfect. It was a culmination of so many personal wishes. I grew up with Trek, as so many of us did, and that one moment sealed the deal. Like before that, I didn't really believe it was back, but then I was forced to face it. The world had a drought of Star Trek for over a decade and it's back!

I know it's silly to get emotional about a TV show, but Star Trek is so much a part of my soul. the JJ Abrams movies didn't give me the same feeling, though I thought they were entertaining. It's just, I know Star Trek when I see it, and I saw it tonight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hammer   

I just love the look and feel of this show. I was skeptical about the Klingons, but now seeing them in action, they make the TNG era prosthetics look a bit silly. I'm willing to buy in to yet another evolution of the Klingon look. It was cool that they speak their lines in Klingonese considering the effort put into constructing the language, but it also means having to read subtitles. They feel more alien now, but maybe that's a good thing. I can't wait for episode 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Nombrecomun said:

I liked the overall look. I'm concerned about cost. It really looks like a big screen release.

^
I think this is one of the advantages to a shorter season; more money spent on individual episodes.   My wife said that if she’d walked in on it and didn’t know otherwise, she’d swear she was watching a feature film.   I can’t help but agree. 

4 hours ago, doctor_odd said:

I think it was absolutely phenomenal, and elsewhere on the internet I have to wonder if I'm living in the same universe as the critics.

It makes me really happy that you lot seem to agree with my positivity. My whole family got together to watch the pilot like old times and when, at the end of the credits, it said "based on Star Trek created by Gene Roddenberry" I lost it. I couldn't contain myself, and I didn't expect to react so viscerally. I was so embarrassed, but I turned to my brother and we had both burst into tears. 

It was perfect. It was a culmination of so many personal wishes. I grew up with Trek, as so many of us did, and that one moment sealed the deal. Like before that, I didn't really believe it was back, but then I was forced to face it. The world had a drought of Star Trek for over a decade and it's back!

I know it's silly to get emotional about a TV show, but Star Trek is so much a part of my soul. the JJ Abrams movies didn't give me the same feeling, though I thought they were entertaining. It's just, I know Star Trek when I see it, and I saw it tonight.

^
Very much sympathize.  I was surprised by my own level of excitement.  

And it wasn’t just an overreaction of gratitude brought on by 'ST drought’ either; this show really hit the mark in ways I wasn’t sure that it could.   I was also impressed with how vividly some of the characters registered.   The first two episodes also managed to fuse a solid war story yet still retain a few moments of wonder and awe about space as well.

This is a new standard that may be difficult to sustain in the weeks ahead, but I’m very excited by the possibilities. 

 

Also belated kudos to the designers of the title sequence for avoiding the ST-cliches of generic ship porn and flyby shots.   This was new and fresh; celebrating many bits of ST iconography, and even ST history.   Reminded me a little bit of HBO’s Westworld (in a good way, because I’m a fan of both).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sim   

Just watched it and have a hard time getting my thoughts on it into an order... so much new input all at once!

First of all, I liked it. This was a very promising start of an amazing looking SF series, and it makes me curious about how it's all going to go on from here. Plus the visuals and sets are impressive, it really looks amazing. As for the characters, it only focused on three characters, one of which is dead by the end -- too early to say much about it so far. Burnham is interesting, but I don't have the feeling yet to know much about her, after two episodes. Guess that's what the rest of the season is for.

But for the most part, I had troubles considering it a Star Trek show. It did not feel like Star Trek to me ... at all. Doesn't mean that in a bad way: It was really good. Just that I somehow feel on first impression, it appears to be closer to shows like "The Expanse" or even "Game of Thrones" than to "old" Star Trek -- two shows I really like. But I never had this "wow, this feels familiar"-Star Trek-feeling, or even hints of nostalgia. But maybe I just need some time to process all the new impressions, let them sink in and rewatch the episodes.

So for the time being, after first watching? Most promising new SF show. But if I'll be able to convince myself it's in the same universe, or has anything remotely to do with the old Star Trek shows, time will tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sim said:

But for the most part, I had troubles considering it a Star Trek show. It did not feel like Star Trek to me ... at all. Doesn't mean that in a bad way: It was really good. Just that I somehow feel on first impression, it appears to be closer to shows like "The Expanse" or even "Game of Thrones" than to "old" Star Trek -- two shows I really like. But I never had this "wow, this feels familiar"-Star Trek-feeling, or even hints of nostalgia. But maybe I just need some time to process all the new impressions, let them sink in and rewatch the episodes.

I think that's a good thing. It has to be different than what we view as 'Star Trek' in order to survive. Let's face it: the franchise we knew and love couldn't make it in today's media intense environment. 

It's not and won't be BSG but it has to be closer to that than TOS-ENT, you know? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, doctor_odd said:

Saru is my favourite thing. <3

Saru is terrific.  I've been a fan of Doug Jones since the Hellboy movies, and my wife and I met him 5 years ago at Comic Con.  He was very open, kind and gracious.  So yeah, I was sort of predisposed to like Saru anyway but Jones really delivered.

He could be this ST's Data in terms of popularity. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked it, but I didn't love it - not yet. For a Star Trek show, it felt wildly unfamiliar, despite all the stylistic nods to past iterations of the franchise. I'd guess that's because the storytelling format is so different to any previous versions. Thought the characters were all very well-rounded and interesting - Yeoh as Giorgiou was superb, and if that's all we see of her, what a shame. Martin-Green did a great job communicating a complex, slightly conflicted character - sometimes vulnerable, always resourceful and instantly compelling - but Doug Jones as Saru just stole it. Even under all that makeup. Frain was a wise, warmer-than-usual Sarek, and I wondered if Ben Cross' wonderful performance as Spock's dad from Star Trek 2009 didn't inform this version more than Mark Lenard's. 

As a character piece, it was wonderful, even if we only met a couple of the regulars. Hate to say this, but I found the Klingon sequences mostly kind of slow and a bit tortuous. The only scene which really felt dramatic to me was when T'Kuvma picked out the albino Klingon as his new torchbearer. It felt like mythology for the sake of mythology, and frankly, I don't care - just get the story moving. The first episode came across as an extended prologue, and I'd question that structure as a wise move, because it wasn't until ep 2 that things really got into some kind of swing. The battle was all fabulous-looking, the brig sequence in particular a great showcase for Burnham's particular talents, but somehow i was left at the end thinking that despite this show walking and talking like Trek, there was very little (so far) of it that felt of a part with what's gone before. (No pun intended.) I also was left wondering why this had to be a prequel - with a few adjustments (Sarek didn't have to be Sarek), it would've worked as a post-Voyager story.

Promising start though - it looks incredible, has a set of characters I want to follow and I remind myself that all Trek shows traditionally start with slightly shaky pilots, after which they find their feet and engage the warp engines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
scenario   

I only watched the first episode so far. I enjoyed it. It felt like ST to me. You can't develop great chemistry in two episodes. 

Imo, the Star Trek feeling for a show cannot happen in just two episodes. The first two episodes of TOS aired were The Man Trap and Charlie X. An opinion of ST based on just those two episodes would be a lot different than an opinion based on a few seasons of ST. 

I was reading some of the reviews on other sites and I swear that there are people who are disappointed that they didn't have a scene where they tilted the camera and told everyone to pretend to fall towards the right side of the stage and then tilted the camera the other way and had them all run to the other side of the stage. All while dramatic music played and the lit off some firecrackers and poured in smoke. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only got to see the pilot first episode "The Vulcan Hello", and it was a decent scifi episode of something, but it is not Star Trek. It has elements of Star Trek, but might as well be a fan film, based on the material.

The not-Axanar but maybe plotline does explain the lawsuit with them in 2015, 2016, that and they made money off of a copyrighted property at Axanar studio.

The pros: The space effects and vistas are fantastic, movie quality, and look like even an update of the Abrams films. The ship is neat, small, and compact, an Akira/NX hybrid, but with TNG era nacelles, consoles, etc. It might as well be set in 2394.

The cons: 2256, really, a prequel again? Now we know it takes place in the NX timeline, not the prime timeline. In the NX timeline, started when First Contact was changed slightly, (and presumably TNG from 2373 on, when they get back), the TNG light feel is evident.

The Klingons. What were these new 'old scary crypt keeper Klingons? Not interested enough to tune in to find out.

Commander Burnham was a little too anxious to disobey orders and stage an attack?

How does that subspace comm work? It would have to be hyper light speed travel, even faster than trans warp, in order for a real time talk with Sarek. The only way that works is if he is on the fleet approaching, and is not that far off.

Cliffhanger and not aired in all two parts on network TV in the US (where I am), and this gave me no reason to buy up a subscription for one show on the clunky mess that is All Access. (I have friends who have it, and it has a library missing a third of its shows, and it crashes frequently, but am still not going to watch this at their house).  Not going to do it. Going to wait until the bluray comes out.

They ended part one like The Best of Both Worlds/Redemption. Why?

It's not that I was sticking up for the silly Axanar thing, (as they did breach copyright), but that they just wouldn't come our and admit it at CBS that indeed theirs was set in a similar time period. Now we know. It was.

Do not support piracy. Watch it legally. I will not watch it until the bluray.

I suspect it will be cancelled in one season, as people will not flock to All Access. But they can save it. If the chips fall down, then they have to do a marathon for the sweeps in November, release it all on CBS on TV, and show it all, and then everyone gets to see it.

The characters were fine. It is odd though that they seemed to have forgotten Ben Sisko was the first black Star Trek commander. That is odd. Burnham is the second black female commander. The first was in Star Trek IV.

Saratoga captain 'Alexander' does bear a resemblance to Bunrham, in 2286. Could be her daughter. :)

Edited by Chimera82405

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Chimera82405 said:

Saratoga captain 'Alexander' does bear a resemblance to Bunrham, in 2286. Could be her daughter. :)

Not unless Burnham has a daughter who’s already 12-15 years old at the start of DSC.   And with a Jamaican accent... 

Sorry, but they look (and sound) absolutely NOTHING alike.    

23 minutes ago, Chimera82405 said:

Commander Burnham was a little too anxious to disobey orders and stage an attack?

Or because time was running out?   Given her anxiety, Burnham wasn’t relishing the moment.

31 minutes ago, scenario said:

Imo, the Star Trek feeling for a show cannot happen in just two episodes. The first two episodes of TOS aired were The Man Trap and Charlie X. An opinion of ST based on just those two episodes would be a lot different than an opinion based on a few seasons of ST

Agreed.

If you look at episodes in production order, the first two didn’t really have most of the regular cast; Spock is the only constant throughout.   TOS didn’t really start ‘feeling’ like TOS till about “Corbomite Maneuver” when the cast and ship are more or less settled. 

That said?  I thought “Vulcan Hello” & “Battle at the Binary Stars” had more genuine ST feeling in its 85 min. running time than most of the Bad Robot movie trilogy combined (and I say that as someone who liked ST09 and STB).

1 hour ago, Robin Bland said:

Hate to say this, but I found the Klingon sequences mostly kind of slow and a bit tortuous.

While I didn’t find them tortuous, per se (I was too busy gawking at the exquisite makeup & costumes  :thumbup:), I agree that they did kinda slow things down a bit.  Probably my biggest nit with the premiere episode(s).   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Locutus   

As with most productions these days, I wish I hadn't read so many damn spoilers before I saw the pilot.  I blame myself for that of course.  In particular, the fact that ...

(SPOILER WARNING HERE ON OUT)

 

 

Commander Burnham becomes a disgraced officer.  That was a huge source of the drama and in my opinion success of the episode.  It is a good hook.  I will say that I did not expect outright mutiny, so that was a shocker!

I've read a lot of online reactions and am disappointed but some of the negativity.  I will say it is by far an improvement over Voyager and Enterprise thus far.  And I loved those shows!  So I will love Discovery.  

I agree with some criticism that the Klingon makeup appliances seem to be making it hard to act through.  Otherwise, the show is very aesthetically pleasing.  A real step-up much like the Abrams movies but with darker sets.  I hope the series moves beyond the Klingon war to some extent.  I don't mind the conflict as a backdrop but I do want to see some actual exploration and less pew-pew-pew phasers and batleths.

I am bigtime bummed that Michelle Yeoh's Captain Georgiou is dead so soon.  I wish the whole show was about her.  I loved her.  But we were meant to feel that loss, so I can't exactly criticize the storytelling! 

Sometimes I felt like Ms. Martin-Green was over-acting, but I am overall pleased with her performance.  Hers is a complex character in the best traditions of Star Trek, and we have a lit to look forward too.  

I'm just trying to figure out how to watch this on the cheap (and without pirating!).  I'm not shelling out for CBS All-Access just yet :-/

Edited by Locutus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

While I didn’t find them tortuous, per se (I was too busy gawking at the exquisite makeup & costumes  :thumbup:), I agree that they did kinda slow things down a bit.  Probably my biggest nit with the premiere episode(s).   

"Tortuous" might be a little strong, but in ep 1 those scenes, after the initial impact of the new Klingons, seemed a bit on the slow side. No argument over how it all looked - the entire production was stunning. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Locutus said:

Sometimes I felt like Ms. Martin-Green was over-acting,

When she was waxing poetic about the universe, exploration, and her Starfleet values? Definitely. I think certain bits of that dialogue were weak to start with and she pushed too hard trying to sell it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Locutus said:

As with most productions these days, I wish I hadn't read so many damn spoilers before I saw the pilot.  I blame myself for that of course.  In particular, the fact that ...

(SPOILER WARNING HERE ON OUT)

 

 

Commander Burnham becomes a disgraced officer.  That was a huge source of the drama and in my opinion success of the episode.  It is a good hook.  I will say that I did not expect outright mutiny, so that was a shocker!

I've read a lot of online reactions and am disappointed but some of the negativity.  I will say it is by far an improvement over Voyager and Enterprise thus far.  And I loved those shows!  So I will love Discovery.  

I agree with some criticism that the Klingon makeup appliances seem to be making it hard to act through.  Otherwise, the show is very aesthetically pleasing.  A real step-up much like the Abrams movies but with darker sets.  I hope the series moves beyond the Klingon war to some extent.  I don't mind the conflict as a backdrop but I do want to see some actual exploration and less pew-pew-pew phasers and batleths.

I am bigtime bummed that Michelle Yeoh's Captain Georgiou is dead so soon.  I wish the whole show was about her.  I loved her.  But we were meant to feel that loss, so I can't exactly criticize the storytelling! 

Sometimes I felt like Ms. Martin-Green was over-acting, but I am overall pleased with her performance.  Hers is a complex character in the best traditions of Star Trek, and we have a lit to look forward too.  

I'm just trying to figure out how to watch this on the cheap (and without pirating!).  I'm not shelling out for CBS All-Access just yet :-/

I'm sure it will, they say it will move beyond the Klingon War in the second season.

As with Captain Georgiou dying, I saw this coming (something had to happen for Burnham to end up on Discovery).

I have a feeling that the rest of this arc is going to feature a long path to redemption. We know that somehow Burnham ends up on Discovery, most likely reduced a rank for the crap she pulled, but somehow gets enough leverage so that she doesn't spend the rest of her life rotting away in prison. I was expecting them to unveil the Discovery herself in "Battle at the Binary Stars" but they didn't. She may not even be out of her rut after the third episode, given what I've seen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now