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The Orville

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1 hour ago, Vampire Kirk said:

So far the stories, themes, settings, music and even commercial breaks are pure 90's Trek and I love it. The fact that this and DIS are on at the same time is an excellent balance. What a time to be alive!

It is very much like the 1990s, isn’t it?  You have the ‘sunnier’ Trek (VGR/Orville) and you have the ‘deeper’ Trek (DS9/DSC).   An embarrassment of riches.

I just consider Orville to be an unofficial member of the ST family; just like I consider “Galaxy Quest” to be an unofficial ST movie as well.   My only wish is that Orville tones down its dumb jokes and goes for humor from within the characters; I find myself getting into the stories and then bam!   That stupid helmsman makes a joke that breaks the 4th wall for me.

Here’s hoping Seth McFarlane eventually reaches a place where he full faith in his own show’s potential and drops the comedic crutches altogether.   “About a Girl” shows what can be done when the show tones down the funny and ups the drama, and it’s no surprise that it’s my single favorite episode of the show so far. 

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9 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

Indeed. Stop setting up the humor and just take it naturally from the story.

I would also drop all of the 21st century pop-culture references.   It’s almost as bad as TNG’s overuse of 20th century jazz...

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33 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I would also drop all of the 21st century pop-culture references.   It’s almost as bad as TNG’s overuse of 20th century jazz...

Yeah. DSC can crack wise about the Beatles a little, but the vast majority of centuries old pop culture would have all but vanished. 

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10 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Yeah. DSC can crack wise about the Beatles a little, but the vast majority of centuries old pop culture would have all but vanished. 

The Beatles will probably be easily remembered 240 years from now (in DSC’s time), just as Shakespeare or Mozart.   But the problem with Orville is that ALL of the references are 21st century; I realize we live in dynamic times, but I’m sure (if humanity avoids total self-destruction) there will be gobs of new pop-culture iconography between now and the 25th century of Orville.  Best if the Orville PTB keep it kinda universal; with maybe an occasional 20th-21st century reference thrown in for punctuation.  

At least TOS, TNG and its successors referenced earlier centuries as well; the Mozart musical concert in “Sarek” or the many literary references to Shakespeare, Dickens, Poe, etc.    It wasn’t only 20th-21st century stuff all of the time (despite TNG’s overuse of jazz).

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Just now, Sehlat Vie said:

The Beatles will probably be easily remembered 240 years from now (in DSC’s time), just as Shakespeare or Mozart.   But the problem with Orville is that ALL of the references are 21st century; I realize we live in dynamic times, but I’m sure (if humanity avoids total self-destruction) there will be gobs of new pop-culture iconography between now and the 25th century of Orville.  Best if the Orville PTB keep it kinda universal; with maybe an occasional 20th-21st century reference thrown in for punctuation.  

At least TOS, TNG and its successors referenced earlier centuries as well; the Mozart musical concert in “Sarek” or the many literary references to Shakespeare, Dickens, Poe, etc.    It wasn’t only 20th-21st century stuff all of the time (despite TNG’s overuse of jazz).

Build some lore while you're at it. Wanna make a Justin Bieber joke? Create some Justin Bieber equivalent in a line or two that paints a picture of the brat, then dig at him. If your audience is as bright as you would hope they'll make the connection on their own.

No one's going to know who Britney Spears is in 400 years either.

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7 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Build some lore while you're at it. Wanna make a Justin Bieber joke? Create some Justin Bieber equivalent in a line or two that paints a picture of the brat, then dig at him. If your audience is as bright as you would hope they'll make the connection on their own.

No one's going to know who Britney Spears is in 400 years either.

Britney who? :P

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21 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I would also drop all of the 21st century pop-culture references.   It’s almost as bad as TNG’s overuse of 20th century jazz...

What's wrong with Jazz? :rolleyes: I love Jazz, and I'm happy with a future where it's everywhere. :P

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20 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Yeah. DSC can crack wise about the Beatles a little, but the vast majority of centuries old pop culture would have all but vanished. 

I very much disagree. What we're witnessing now is that twentysomethings have access to an entire body of musical work on services such as Apple Music and Spotify. Many of the people I know stick with what's cutting edge, but most people find their niche. I listen to a lot of 60s folk, for example, and I wasn't born until the 90s.

What about something very specific and niche, like 90s shoegaze? There's no real emotional equivalent anywhere else in music history before or since, but it's there to be found and consumed. Someone who wants that emotion/tone will find it, via ever-advancing search functions and AI that is programmed to give you the perfect emotional experience. You tell the computer "Play something melancholic" and through the process of elimination ("No, darker than that", etc.) it will find you the perfect music, regardless of how popular it may have been in its respective time.

Before the internet, and before these streaming services, it didn't seem possible, but I think "current" pop will be what dies out, because the novelty of something being "new" won't matter as much anymore.

So The Beatles will be remembered, yes, along with the greats such as Led Zeppelin, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, etc. but so will 20th century jazz, 21st century dubstep, and 90s shoegaze. But only to those who need them most. Because each one has a place in music history, and an emotional resonance to some fraction of the human species.

 

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22 minutes ago, Garak the spy said:

What's wrong with Jazz? :rolleyes: I love Jazz, and I'm happy with a future where it's everywhere. :P

Nothing wrong with it, it’s just that it’s the only music we ever seem to hear in TNG and its sequels/prequel.   I only remember “First Contact” (the movie, not the episode) having rock music, and it was Roy Orbison & Steppenwolf (nice, but a bit dated; even in 1996, let alone 2063).

But no, I’m not criticizing jazz itself; there’s quite a bit of it that I like (sadly, it’s none of the stuff ever played on TNG...:( ).

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Good episode. Interesting overall. And, good Lord this show spends ridiculous amounts of money on effects. 

Also, good Lord, the whole thing with the leg was absolutely unnecessary.

Every bit of it.

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Hammer   
On 10/5/2017 at 7:20 AM, Sehlat Vie said:

The Beatles will probably be easily remembered 240 years from now (in DSC’s time), just as Shakespeare or Mozart.   But the problem with Orville is that ALL of the references are 21st century; I realize we live in dynamic times, but I’m sure (if humanity avoids total self-destruction) there will be gobs of new pop-culture iconography between now and the 25th century of Orville.  Best if the Orville PTB keep it kinda universal; with maybe an occasional 20th-21st century reference thrown in for punctuation.  

At least TOS, TNG and its successors referenced earlier centuries as well; the Mozart musical concert in “Sarek” or the many literary references to Shakespeare, Dickens, Poe, etc.    It wasn’t only 20th-21st century stuff all of the time (despite TNG’s overuse of jazz).

I'd argue more remembered than Shakespeare or Mozart.... It's only in the past century that we could record performances. That makes it more accessible and relate-able to future audiences. Future pop culture will probably borrow from our century. That said, they probably wouldn't be watching the junior mint episode of Seinfeld on the job.

As for last night's episode, I thought it was an improvement over last week. We learn that teleportation will eventually happen in the Orville-verse, but not for a few centuries. However, propulsion is more advanced than Voyager's time, with a trip from the Delta quadrant taking approximately 9 months for the Orville. I had a good laugh at the leg amputation, that was a good send-up of Data's misunderstandings.

Edited by Hammer

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4 hours ago, Hammer said:

I'd argue more remembered than Shakespeare or Mozart.... It's only in the past century that we could record performances. That makes it more accessible and relate-able to future audiences. Future pop culture will probably borrow from our century. That said, they probably wouldn't be watching the junior mint episode of Seinfeld on the job.

As for last night's episode, I thought it was an improvement over last week. We learn that teleportation will eventually happen in the Orville-verse, but not for a few centuries. However, propulsion is more advanced than Voyager's time, with a trip from the Delta quadrant taking approximately 9 months for the Orville. I had a good laugh at the leg amputation, that was a good send-up of Data's misunderstandings.

Good point about recorded music arguably having a longer life, but I would add that Mozart will probably stand the test of time, because it survived for centuries WITHOUT being recorded.   I can't see most modern music surviving that long if, say, some kind of global nuclear or EMP event/disaster wiped out tons of computer drives, etc. 

But I digress; last night's episode "Pria."

Really enjoyed it. Charlize Theron was a bit of an overkill in star power for a role that could've been played by anyone just as well, but sure. If you have the city bus or a limo offering you a ride to work, you take the limo, right?   I thought the practical joke gag was a bit much; more shocking and disturbing than funny, but I do admit; it effectively proved the point.  If Data had no ethical program, he might've done the same (he DID throw Crusher into freezing water, after all...).  

If I had one major complaint, it's that the wormhole time-travel device was WAY too simple; and it always deposits them to and from the same year?  It made time travel (and the dangers of a wormhole)  look about as dangerous as a walk in the park.

Overall a solid episode in what is essentially a concurrent Star Trek series; party like it's 1999, indeed. :thumbup:

 

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****** SPOILER FOR ORVILLE: “PRIA” ******

 

And one more thing; did anyone else think that the story (however enjoyably done) was virtually a 1:1 remake of TNG’s “A Matter of Time”?   Not that a lack of originality made it less enjoyable, and it had some interesting differences, but in the end it was a time traveler hoping to exploit a different era for profit.  

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Just watched Pria and was disappointed.  It was terribly derivative and cliché ridden.  Introduction of teleportation by Pria affirms that it doesn't exist in the Orville universe.

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3 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

(he DID throw Crusher into freezing water, after all...).  

In fairness to Data's supposed lack of understanding of humor, I found the scene hilarious.

Maybe it's because I have Crusher...but either way. :)

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8 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

In fairness to Data's supposed lack of understanding of humor, I found the scene hilarious.

Maybe it's because I have Crusher...but either way. :)

I liked the water scene as well.  It felt strangely cathartic in 1994 when I had (at that point) endured six years of her malpractice. :laugh:

******SPOiLERS FOR ORVILLE: PRIA ********

 

Orville's redux of "A Matter Of Time" just seemed like a bit of overkill to retrieve a 'collectible' and the wormhole time travel bit had no real element of danger to it (despite a decent representation of a three-dimensional wormhole; they wouldn't be cosmic sink drains, contrary to TNG or DS9).   Still, I enjoyed it primarily for seeing Oscar-winning Charlize Theron slumming it for a night (and seemingly having fun doing it, I might add).   Like much of Orville thus far, if you turn your brain off, it's a decent time-passer.  But what really chaps my derrière is that it has the potential to be so much MORE if it wanted to...

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I binged the first five episodes of The Orville, and overall, it was an enjoyable enough experience. It's Trek-lite, a pleasant stroll through some old memories of the way the future used to be. We're back to that spartan, antiseptic look in which everything is bright and human society is improved to the point that exploration of the universe takes place in faster-than-light luxury hotels whose special reception guests include the likes of Charlize Theron.

But what's it for? Is it a comedy? The humor's pretty asinine and mostly serves only to undermine any sense of serious plot developments. It's not daft enough to be Red Dwarf and so slick it outdoes Galaxy Quest while totally missing the charm and genuine laughs of that movie. It's not really terribly adventurous SF, but the moral dilemmas are at least updated and explored with a certain measure of aplomb and social awareness. Unfortunately we also have to suffer through tedious characterizations like the "Dude, that's above my pay-grade" helmsman. Get rid. I like the super-strong security officer and Isaac the AI though. I am always a sucker for Data-esque robots (although the leg joke was excruciatingly unfunny). And it's nice to see Penny Johnson as the doctor. 

I think the biggest problem with the show is Seth MacFarlane himself - why on earth did he cast himself as a lead? Because he really wanted to be on Star Trek? Amiable enough though he is, he just doesn't have leading man chops, not even in a big-budgeted comedy like this which can safely buoy up charisma-free leads owing to its ensemble nature. You get the sense it's his wish fulfillment that's driving the show, but he's also the center of its blandness... I never thought it would be possible to stylistically outbeige TNG or Voyager, but here we are. He's the living embodiment of that comfort-over-curiosity ideal, white America in space with bit parts for our friends in either real or invented ethnic minorities to show how cool and aware we are. 

What this show needs is a bloody great dose of genuine irreverence and some self-sabotaging jokes. Some genuinely far-out SF and social concepts and moral dilemmas that can take the piss out of contemporary issues to make it an exercise in relevance rather than blinding us with its smug, blinding beigeness. It needs to be hungry, not a rich dude's exercise in wish fulfillment. We don't need DisneyTrek. It could really be good as opposed to just pleasant and mildly diverting, but the curve of its improvement needs to happen at a much greater rate of knots if it's going to survive and be anything more than forgettable comfort food. 

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1 hour ago, Robin Bland said:

I binged the first five episodes of The Orville, and overall, it was an enjoyable enough experience. It's Trek-lite, a pleasant stroll through some old memories of the way the future used to be. We're back to that spartan, antiseptic look in which everything is bright and human society is improved to the point that exploration of the universe takes place in faster-than-light luxury hotels whose special reception guests include the likes of Charlize Theron.

But what's it for? Is it a comedy? The humor's pretty asinine and mostly serves only to undermine any sense of serious plot developments. It's not daft enough to be Red Dwarf and so slick it outdoes Galaxy Quest while totally missing the charm and genuine laughs of that movie. It's not really terribly adventurous SF, but the moral dilemmas are at least updated and explored with a certain measure of aplomb and social awareness. Unfortunately we also have to suffer through tedious characterizations like the "Dude, that's above my pay-grade" helmsman. Get rid. I like the super-strong security officer and Isaac the AI though. I am always a sucker for Data-esque robots (although the leg joke was excruciatingly unfunny). And it's nice to see Penny Johnson as the doctor. 

I think the biggest problem with the show is Seth MacFarlane himself - why on earth did he cast himself as a lead? Because he really wanted to be on Star Trek? Amiable enough though he is, he just doesn't have leading man chops, not even in a big-budgeted comedy like this which can safely buoy up charisma-free leads owing to its ensemble nature. You get the sense it's his wish fulfillment that's driving the show, but he's also the center of its blandness... I never thought it would be possible to stylistically outbeige TNG or Voyager, but here we are. He's the living embodiment of that comfort-over-curiosity ideal, white America in space with bit parts for our friends in either real or invented ethnic minorities to show how cool and aware we are. 

What this show needs is a bloody great dose of genuine irreverence and some self-sabotaging jokes. Some genuinely far-out SF and social concepts and moral dilemmas that can take the piss out of contemporary issues to make it an exercise in relevance rather than blinding us with its smug, blinding beigeness. It needs to be hungry, not a rich dude's exercise in wish fulfillment. We don't need DisneyTrek. It could really be good as opposed to just pleasant and mildly diverting, but the curve of its improvement needs to happen at a much greater rate of knots if it's going to survive and be anything more than forgettable comfort food. 

^

My thoughts on the series exactly.  

The whole thing feels a bit like Seth McFarlane finally got his picture taken in the captain’s chair at a convention, and is now forcing himself to write a series around it.   He’s a charisma-free choice for a lead; at this point, I’d be very much okay with his exec taking over.

And that Danny Bonaduce-lookalike Lt. Malloy (Scott Grimes)...can we just flush him out an airlock, please?  I’m almost wishing Isaac had chopped off his head instead of his leg.

orville.gordon_malloy.jpg

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Robin and Sehlat?

 

All of that.

 

Every bit of it.

And...

"And that Danny Bonaduce-lookalike Lt. Malloy (Scott Grimes)...can we just flush him out an airlock, please?  I’m almost wishing Isaac had chopped off his head instead of his leg."

 

If they had and had to end up attaching him to the helm in a jar ala Futurama, that might have been actually funny.

Of course, then you'd end up with actual jokes ABOUT Futurama on this show. Probably isn't worth it.

Edited by prometheus59650

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Interesting idea to put Mercer on the enemy ship to put a face to the Krill. And the moral dilemma when they discover the children. There are some solid sci-fi moments here.

Really? Avis and Hertz Rent-a-car are still known in 400 years so you can grind out some really bad jokes?

 

And the only thing I could think of when they were in services was that Malloy needs to Shut. The Hell. Up. 

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On 10/11/2017 at 10:07 AM, prometheus59650 said:

Robin and Sehlat?

 

All of that.

 

Every bit of it.

And...

"And that Danny Bonaduce-lookalike Lt. Malloy (Scott Grimes)...can we just flush him out an airlock, please?  I’m almost wishing Isaac had chopped off his head instead of his leg."

 

If they had and had to end up attaching him to the helm in a jar ala Futurama, that might have been actually funny.

Of course, then you'd end up with actual jokes ABOUT Futurama on this show. Probably isn't worth it.

Ha! Missed this the other day.

In the UK, "Orville" means this:

...which is not a good look.

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1 hour ago, Robin Bland said:

Ha! Missed this the other day.

In the UK, "Orville" means this:

...which is not a good look.

:laugh:

 

 

Well, I saw the latest Orville episode, “Krill” and once again, the humor sabotages the potentially interesting TNG-style story.

At this point, I’m really hoping Lt. Malloy sees the business end of an airlock without a spacesuit.  I’d go so far to say he is the Jar-Jar/Neelix of this show, if Jar-Jar or Neelix looked like ex-Partridge Family member Danny Bonaduce’s little brother.   The rest of the cast could easily regroup and turn this into a decent show if Malloy would disappear and if Seth McFarlane grew some gravitas and acting chops...

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2 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

:laugh:

 

 

Well, I saw the latest Orville episode, “Krill” and once again, the humor sabotages the potentially interesting TNG-style story.

At this point, I’m really hoping Lt. Malloy sees the business end of an airlock without a spacesuit.  I’d go so far to say he is the Jar-Jar/Neelix of this show, if Jar-Jar or Neelix looked like ex-Partridge Family member Danny Bonaduce’s little brother.   The rest of the cast could easily regroup and turn this into a decent show if Malloy would disappear and if Seth McFarlane grew some gravitas and acting chops...

Haven't seen that one yet, but yeah, I think it could be a good and far more engaging show with a serious overhaul, and my number one requirement would be to dispose of Malloy in just the way you suggest. Promote MacFarlane's number two Palicki to the captain's chair and Seth, you need to return to behind-the-camera duties and bring in a couple of new cast members to add a bit of fire to the rest of the cast. Get in some angry comedy writers and throw them in a bear pit (sorry, "writer's room") with some SF conceptualists. 

MacFarlane seems like a really good guy - maybe Mercer could come back as a recurring character? 

See, look how easy it is! I just solved all this show's problems. Seriously, I'd rather it succeeded than didn't. It obviously has a lot of love behind it, and actually a lot more heart than some of the more cynical exercises in so-called SF out there. 

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17 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Haven't seen that one yet, but yeah, I think it could be a good and far more engaging show with a serious overhaul, and my number one requirement would be to dispose of Malloy in just the way you suggest. Promote MacFarlane's number two Palicki to the captain's chair and Seth, you need to return to behind-the-camera duties and bring in a couple of new cast members to add a bit of fire to the rest of the cast. Get in some angry comedy writers and throw them in a bear pit (sorry, "writer's room") with some SF conceptualists. 

MacFarlane seems like a really good guy - maybe Mercer could come back as a recurring character? 

See, look how easy it is! I just solved all this show's problems. 

Easy-peasy...:P

17 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

Seriously, I'd rather it succeeded than didn't. It obviously has a lot of love behind it, and actually a lot more heart than some of the more cynical exercises in so-called SF out there. 

It feels like there’s a potentially good show in there, if only they can remove the unneeded bits. 

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