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Mutai Sho-Rin

The Orville

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9 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

But Mercer acts almost like everyone's sidekick. He doesn't have the gravitas to pull the misfits together in spite of his own issues. And I don't know if McFarlane's actor enough to pull off a tougher Mercer

I realize that, to an actor/producer, the ego must be a factor and I respect that.   Most (if not all) actors/singers/what-not NEED a healthy ego to be performers.   But I also kinda wish that McFarlane would have the vision to get out of his own way a bit.   Whenever I watch the show, I can’t help mentally recasting Mercer; and the choices I come up with in my head are usually loads better.  I think a lot of that is also wish fulfillment; he’s a ST fan (as are we all) and what ST fan doesn’t have a ‘big chair’ fantasy, right?   Well, McFarlane has the resources to make his own fantasies come true, but the show is hurting for it. 

As played, I agree that he feels more like the sidekick than the captain.   

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kenman   

I work for a Fox affiliate, and I think they want this show to succeed, because of their ties to MacFarlane and because it probably was a bit more expensive for a comedy than they are used to. My main reason is that usually on Sunday nights with Football, they cut into whatever show they've got on.  Rarely do we have to worry about them pushing shows back, and thus pushing back our news.  But they pushed it back because it was "new."  Where was that mentality when Futurama was on?  So I think Fox is definitely trying to help it along. But I don't think the audience rarely is gonna care.  It's aiming at such a niche audience, as it seemed to be trying to grab those offended by the "not your father's Star Trek" campaign of 2009...saying "oh but we kinda look like your fathers Star Trek!"  And ultimately that's only a sliver of loud Trekkies.  MacFarlane, maybe counting himself among them (who knows really), is overemphasizing the size of such a group...and then filling his TNG fantasy with nothing but predictable humor. 

And Sci-fi or anything off kilter and weird never lasts long on Fox.  I joke each year at work that they should just title some shows "Soon to be Cancelled!" This fits the bill of that kind of show. I think it is being given a chance because of the guy behind it...but I think it is more of a "throw him a bone Family Guy makes money" kind of deal. Unfortunately MacFarlane hasn't constructed an actual joke in years.

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11 minutes ago, kenman said:

And Sci-fi or anything off kilter and weird never lasts long on Fox.  I joke each year at work that they should just title some shows "Soon to be Cancelled!"

:laugh:


Each new season they could just number them for convenience;  STBC #2, STBC #3, etc.  :P

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1 hour ago, kenman said:

  It's aiming at such a niche audience, as it seemed to be trying to grab those offended by the "not your father's Star Trek" campaign of 2009...saying "oh but we kinda look like your fathers Star Trek!"  And ultimately that's only a sliver of loud Trekkies.  MacFarlane, maybe counting himself among them (who knows really), is overemphasizing the size of such a group...and then filling his TNG fantasy with nothing but predictable humor. 

Basically this.

Its back half hour crashed on Sunday without football and starting on the 28th it has to compete.

And, to paraphrase Stewie, I don't think it's got the grapes.

 

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22 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Basically this.

Its back half hour crashed on Sunday without football and starting on the 28th it has to compete.

And, to paraphrase Stewie, I don't think it's got the grapes.

Again, it either has to punch up the humor (and actually make it funny) or just play it as a straight scifi show with bits of levity.  

Either approach has to happen soon, because the show is on a collision course with real network competition soon and I agree; it doesn’t have the grapes. 

I would suggest (as if my opinion mattered, right?) that it get moved to a Fox subsidiary, like FX, it might hold out a while longer.

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54 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Either approach has to happen soon, because the show is on a collision course with real network competition soon and I agree; it doesn’t have the grapes. 

It's not going to be a match for ABCs "Shonda Thursday."

55 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I would suggest (as if my opinion mattered, right?) that it get moved to a Fox subsidiary, like FX, it might hold out a while longer.

Yup. Or throw it to Hulu or something. Anywhere without the expectations of network.

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55 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

It's not going to be a match for ABCs "Shonda Thursday."

Yup. Or throw it to Hulu or something. Anywhere without the expectations of network.

It would thrive on Hulu.  Hell, it could and would be flagship series (NPI) for a streaming service...

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2 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

It would thrive on Hulu.  Hell, it could and would be flagship series (NPI) for a streaming service...

Hulu was actually my first thought with this thing, as with a notable exception their original stuff tends toward lighter fare.

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I have yet to see an episode of this, but I saw RottenTomatoes's tomato meter rating and it's still quite bad (20%). Probably will end up being mercifully cancelled. Though then again, stuff happens.

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Holodecks?

No. No. Please, dog, make them stop.

I have to say...this was pretty good. The humor was balanced, the episode well-paced, and the topic actually handled well and with sensitivity in as much as all sides were represented with a complete absence of fart jokes. The twist was nice and the end was not all hearts and flowers. 

Can't really find a lot negative to say about it and I'm happy for that. May it continue to improve. 

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11 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Holodecks?

No. No. Please, dog, make them stop.

I have to say...this was pretty good. The humor was balanced, the episode well-paced, and the topic actually handled well and with sensitivity in as much as all sides were represented with a complete absence of fart jokes. The twist was nice and the end was not all hearts and flowers. 

Can't really find a lot negative to say about it and I'm happy for that. May it continue to improve. 

Watched the 3rd episode last night as well.

And, like you, I really enjoyed it.  It really wasn’t a space spoof at all; and it dealt with its topic just as any good TNG episode would have done.  

The only thing that felt awkward was when Lt. Malloy was placed on the stand during the tribunal.  The forced comedy of that scene felt at odds with the tone and content of the rest of the episode, which was otherwise a solid piece of science fiction television.   Hate to say this, but I wish Malloy would find himself exiting the business end of an airlock soon; his character’s dumb, would-be blue collar humor is poorly executed and painfully unfunny (the actor isn’t helping matters either; he has the comedic timing of lead-based paint).   He’s like a poorly cloned copy of Firefly’s Wash; similar, but without the charm, wit and talent of Alan Tudyk. 

Otherwise?  I enjoyed the episode itself.  I loved the irony of Kelly defending her gender and some of her humorous quips actually fit the context of the episode (“Ooh sorry, but I gotta bad case of the +!+s this morning...” LOL!).   And as you say, the topic was handled with unexpected sensitivity.   No dumb fart or penis jokes to spoil it.   The ending reminded me of the few times that TNG wasn’t allowed to ‘go sunny’ on a topic; such as when Worf refused to save the dying Romulan in “The Enemy” or his discommendation in “Sins of the Father.”   The image of the affected baby was more than a bit haunting.

If Malloy gets s#!t-canned then I think it is possible for the show to revamp itself as a straight science fiction show and nix the need for dumb one-liners.   The humor could come organically from its characters, instead of being tacked on last-minute in a nervous writers’ room.   Malloy could just be another Neelix/Jar-Jar sort of mistake that is never heard from again...

 

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31 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

The only thing that felt awkward was when Lt. Malloy was placed on the stand during the tribunal.  The forced comedy of that scene felt at odds with the tone and content of the rest of the episode, which was otherwise a solid piece of science fiction television.   Hate to say this, but I wish Malloy would find himself exiting the business end of an airlock soon; his character’s dumb, would-be blue collar humor is poorly executed and painfully unfunny (the actor isn’t helping matters either; he has the comedic timing of lead-based paint).   He’s like a poorly cloned copy of Firefly’s Wash; similar, but without the charm, wit and talent of Alan Tudyk. 

Do you really want somebody in a position who's THAT stupid? Either completely relegate the character to the, "Course laid in, sir." guy or make him a little less "dumb mook."

If it were me, borrowing from MacFarlane's television nostalgia, Mallow can head to the ship's basketball court, basketball in hand and simply never be seen again ala Chuck Cunningham.

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2 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

If it were me, borrowing from MacFarlane's television nostalgia, Mallow can head to the ship's basketball court, basketball in hand and simply never be seen again ala Chuck Cunningham.

Or he could be one of those kid actors in a soap opera who runs upstairs to their room, and comes downstairs the following week 15 years older and fully recast.   In this case, maybe Malloy sobers up, dyes his hair blonde, and is now played by Alan Tudyk... :laugh:

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4 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Or he could be one of those kid actors in a soap opera who runs upstairs to their room, and comes downstairs the following week 15 years older and fully recast.   In this case, maybe Malloy sobers up, dyes his hair blonde, and is now played by Alan Tudyk... :laugh:

Ratings: Gotham 1.0/The Orville 1.1

...that may well adjust down...

...on a night of repeats everywhere else.

 

This is not looking good.

 

 

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The third episode was really good! It was like Measure of a Man, a good episode, meets the Outcast, a not so good episode, only it was good. Hopefully it will continue and the ratings will not tank. The ratings did go down.

Edited by Chimera82405

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16 hours ago, Chimera82405 said:

The third episode was really good! It was like Measure of a Man, a good episode, meets the Outcast, a not so good episode, only it was good. Hopefully it will continue and the ratings will not tank. The ratings did go down.

Agreed.  The very timely subject of gender identity/modification done with a good story and some very powerful acting.  There was a bit of sophomoric humorearly in the ep but the meat of it was really solid.

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I hope I don't derail this thread but I was curious to think about what does The Orville do now that Discovery debuted? I haven't watched this show but I'm reading here that the show plays it more straight than comedy. Does ST Discovery push The Orville into more Galaxy Quest territory, which I thought it was going to be in the first place?

Otherwise, it sounds like right now there are two spaceship shows, something we haven't seen since the 90's. 

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1 hour ago, Nombrecomun said:

I hope I don't derail this thread but I was curious to think about what does The Orville do now that Discovery debuted? I haven't watched this show but I'm reading here that the show plays it more straight than comedy. Does ST Discovery push The Orville into more Galaxy Quest territory, which I thought it was going to be in the first place?

Otherwise, it sounds like right now there are two spaceship shows, something we haven't seen since the 90's. 

Orville actually seems to be moderating a bit. The first episode was slapsticky and I find pretty bad. If it continues on its path and doesn't get cancelled there's certainly room for both. I think Orville just keeps its lighter tone and continues on. It's less Galaxy Quest than TNG with a little casual funny.

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3 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Orville actually seems to be moderating a bit. The first episode was slapsticky and I find pretty bad. If it continues on its path and doesn't get cancelled there's certainly room for both. I think Orville just keeps its lighter tone and continues on. It's less Galaxy Quest than TNG with a little casual funny.

I am going to continue watching the Orville, as it is on TV not behind a paywall. I will wait for Discovery on bluray. After the one episode of DSC that was on TV, it was okay, but not worth the all access. At least Fox was smart. (Odd to comment on Fox being smart, but here it was). They just showed it on TV first. I may also get the Orville on bluray.  I'm in the US where we do not get DSC after the first story.

As for the gender story, I liked that the show tackled the idea that the federation ship, or union ship, did not really impact the planet's culture and change their minds with a speech. When Picard used to do that, it used to strike me as pretentious. Who's to say the aliens would even listen to him? They'd just do what they do. It was actually shocking and not a humor ending. It was kind of messed up. But the Orville crew couldn't do anything about it. They could not change the planet's society for one person, which oddly enough, is like saying 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few'. It was handled way better than The Outcast, which is borrows from.

Although one squeamish aspect of it, is the planet is basically all male gendered and presented as wrong, for making everyone born a male. It sounds from the description of the story like it would be homophobic (gender phobic, female phobic?).. 

It does beg the medically odd question of their species, do they actually transform them functionally? That  would be some amazing technology. Is it a gene thing or a surgery? It's described as a procedure or surgery. Sexual reassignment doesn't literally make a person a new gender. Cosmetically they are, but functionally, they cannot transplant the working parts yet. So wouldn't the mate who was revealed to have been a girl be sterile and infertile? They likely didn't dig too deep into that. So on the planet they have fully the ability to gender swap completely, functionally?

Edited by Chimera82405

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4 hours ago, Nombrecomun said:

I hope I don't derail this thread but I was curious to think about what does The Orville do now that Discovery debuted? I haven't watched this show but I'm reading here that the show plays it more straight than comedy. Does ST Discovery push The Orville into more Galaxy Quest territory, which I thought it was going to be in the first place?

Otherwise, it sounds like right now there are two spaceship shows, something we haven't seen since the 90's. 

It is nice having two space shows running simultaneously again; party like it’s 1999... :punk: :giggle:

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27 minutes ago, Chimera82405 said:

As for the gender story, I liked that the show tackled the idea that the federation ship, or union ship, did not really impact the planet's culture and change their minds with a speech. When Picard used to do that, it used to strike me as pretentious. Who's to say the aliens would even listen to him? They'd just do what they do. It was actually shocking and not a humor ending.

I quite agree. Many a week, Starfleet sermonized and magically it starts a groundswell that changes the world. With this episode of The Orville? "Yeah, ummm...good points. Really. But we're going to be doing what we've always done, thanks."

30 minutes ago, Chimera82405 said:

Is it a gene thing or a surgery?

The child's facial appearance changed significantly, so it seems a genetic procedure to me. 

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S1, E4  If the Stars Should Appear  Another worthy episode slightly marred by silly sexual banter.  They discover a monster spaceship reminiscent in concept of Clarke's Rama with a civilization living inside believing it is the entire universe.  Resolved too easily but still, an interesting effort.  I'll keep watching.

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3 minutes ago, Mutai Sho-Rin said:

S1, E4  If the Stars Should Appear  Another worthy episode slightly marred by silly sexual banter.  They discover a monster spaceship reminiscent in concept of Clarke's Rama with a civilization living inside believing it is the entire universe.  Resolved too easily but still, an interesting effort.  I'll keep watching.

The "humor" (using the term very loosely) pretty much sunk this one for me.  And yes, while the story reminded me of Clarke's Rama series, it was also a bigger budgeted remake of TOS' own "For the World is Hollow..."   A disappointing one as well.  '

Such a shame, since last week's episode was actually a solid piece of science fiction television.   Two steps forward, one backward.]

I'll watch in the hopes that it can return to the heights of "About A Girl."

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3 hours ago, Mutai Sho-Rin said:

  Resolved too easily but still, an interesting effort. 

My issue, too.

Not so much the simple fix, but more that murderous zealot seems to simply fold.

Edited by prometheus59650

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So far the stories, themes, settings, music and even commercial breaks are pure 90's Trek and I love it. The fact that this and DIS are on at the same time is an excellent balance. What a time to be alive!

Edited by Vampire Kirk

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