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Rusty0918

Opinions on DSC's supposed TV-MA rating?

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1 hour ago, prometheus59650 said:

I was somewhat shocked that it aired, but thought they were just cool effects. I was never put off by it.

I guess living on a steady diet of American TV desensitized me a bit to “Conspiracy"’s “shock” factor, but I could see how it was off-putting to some.   At the time “Conspiracy" aired (early ’88, I believe?) I was also following the syndicated “War of the Worlds” TV series.  And while WotW was a bit of a hot mess, it featured a lot of creepy, gooey alien gross-out stuff.  

There was also the syndicated “Friday the 13th” TV show at the time (unrelated to the Jason slasher movies) that featured haunted curios and lots of gross-out FX as well.  So yeah, in that grouping?  “Conspiracy” barely stood out...

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23 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I guess living on a steady diet of American TV desensitized me a bit to “Conspiracy"’s “shock” factor, but I could see how it was off-putting to some.   At the time “Conspiracy" aired (early ’88, I believe?) I was also following the syndicated “War of the Worlds” TV series.  And while WotW was a bit of a hot mess, it featured a lot of creepy, gooey alien gross-out stuff.  

There was also the syndicated “Friday the 13th” TV show at the time (unrelated to the Jason slasher movies) that featured haunted curios and lots of gross-out FX as well.  So yeah, in that grouping?  “Conspiracy” barely stood out...

This is true.

I kinda liked Friday the 13th. Nothing terribly impressive, but on a Saturday night with nothing on, really, it was a passable hour.

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3 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

I was somewhat shocked that it aired, but thought they were just cool effects. I was never put off by it.

Interestingly enough, the son of visual effects guru Dan Curry was among the test audience for "Conspiracy." The kid's reaction was that his favorite part of the episode was Remmick's head exploding, further commenting that they could make an action figure of Remmick with an exploding head.

I have to say though, it's nowhere near as gruesome as that "New Voyages / Phase II" episode "Blood and Fire" part one, where we see someone getting eaten alive by Bloodworms - he's still screaming for help when his legs are eaten away, it's insane!

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Sim   

On German tv, the exploding head was cut out of the episode on free tv until they started using the remasters in the early 2010s. The uncut VHS release got a 16+ rating, IIRC.

When I first saw it, I was a bit surprised, because I did not see it coming, and it's pretty strong in the context of TNG's usual graphics.

Edited by Sim

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scenario   

With my own kids, I wasn't all that worried about the level of violence you'd be likely to see on regular TV or even most cable. They've had unrestricted internet since they were 10 years old. I watched TV mature shows with my son when he was in sixth grade and he's in college now. I just saw him for the first time in months last week when I drove him back to Charlottesville after he got home from his trip to Barcelona among other places. He is a very intelligent, independent, non-violent adult now. I drove my daughter to her first day a college on the same trip and she is also an upstanding, intelligent, resourceful adult.

Most kids handle mild or cartoon violence fine. Look at the fairly tales from the 1800. In Cinderella, the evil step sister cut off part of her own foot so it would fit in Cinderella's shoe. 

The only real problem is when the violence is totally unexpected. A police show with violence, fine. A Sesame Street character pulling out a gun and shooting at someone, not so good. 

If the new Star Trek starts out with a slightly higher level of violence than the original had, I probably wouldn't even notice. Times have changed since the 1960's when ST first came on the air. I wouldn't like over the top violence. On the other hand, on all the ST shows except sometimes DS9, they could destroy bad guys ships, killing hundreds of people and not think anything of it. Killing someone should have an effect on you if you're not a sociopath. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I guess living on a steady diet of American TV desensitized me a bit to “Conspiracy"’s “shock” factor, but I could see how it was off-putting to some.   At the time “Conspiracy" aired (early ’88, I believe?) I was also following the syndicated “War of the Worlds” TV series.  And while WotW was a bit of a hot mess, it featured a lot of creepy, gooey alien gross-out stuff.  

There was also the syndicated “Friday the 13th” TV show at the time (unrelated to the Jason slasher movies) that featured haunted curios and lots of gross-out FX as well.  So yeah, in that grouping?  “Conspiracy” barely stood out...

I never watched much of the "War of the Worlds" syndicated series; the only thing I knew most about it was that when it was on, it typically aired just prior to TNG. Guess it didn't have the staying power. I do know there were some disturbing parts to it, that much is certain.

I do remember the "Friday the 13th" series as well, also airing on the same channel, not to mention that 1980's revival of "The Twilight Zone."

7 minutes ago, scenario said:

Most kids handle mild or cartoon violence fine. Look at the fairly tales from the 1800. In Cinderella, the evil step sister cut off part of her own foot so it would fit in Cinderella's shoe. 

Ah yes, a lot of those fairy tales back then were quite disturbing. And oftentimes they weren't as rosy as they were re-written. For example, "Little Red Riding Hood" originally just had the grandmother and Little Red become wolf food, and that was it. And don't get me started on those cautionary tales from Germany such as a tale of one who refused to eat his soup and thinned to death, or another when a girl plays with matches and burns herself to ashes. Or some girl who was told not to roughhouse with her brothers but does it anyway and part of one of her legs breaks off (as in amputated) - complete with blood.

Back to Discovery's TV-MA rating, eventually we'll find out what it means. I'd be pretty sure it'd be mild though.

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IN my rewatch of TOS Im struck by how dark it was, at least in season 1. You might even call it "gritty" compared to TNG. Yes it has the optimistic vision, but a slew of people are killed off left and right. Entire ships are blow up. Crew are snuffed out of existence or mutilated--think Charlie X. Several critics noted this at the time--how anyone who expected a cheerful and optimistic vision of the space age would be disappointed by Star Trek. So DSC may be more graphic in its depictions of violence than TOS could be, TOS certainly suggested a lot of violence as well. And sometimes the suggestion leaves more of an imprint that an actual image. 

Also, the show runners have said cursing and nudity would not work on Trek. So as others have said the MA rating indicated  violence and adult themes. 

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16 minutes ago, Justin Snead said:

IN my rewatch of TOS Im struck by how dark it was, at least in season 1. You might even call it "gritty" compared to TNG. Yes it has the optimistic vision, but a slew of people are killed off left and right. Entire ships are blow up. Crew are snuffed out of existence or mutilated--think Charlie X. Several critics noted this at the time--how anyone who expected a cheerful and optimistic vision of the space age would be disappointed by Star Trek. So DSC may be more graphic in its depictions of violence than TOS could be, TOS certainly suggested a lot of violence as well. And sometimes the suggestion leaves more of an imprint that an actual image. 

Also, the show runners have said cursing and nudity would not work on Trek. So as others have said the MA rating indicated  violence and adult themes. 

In regards to the deaths/mutilations on ST, I don't think the first season is unique in that regard.

But when people refer to ST's optimism, I don't think they're necessarily referring to the violence of the show, or the action.  I think they're referring to the big picture; ST makes a statement about hope for the future just by BEING.  The fact that it depicts humanity still being alive and thriving (and working together with others) in the centuries to come, and not wiped out by H-bombs; THAT'S the optimistic message.  Not whether individuals or ships are killed/mutilated every week.   Death, however horrific at times, is simply a part of mortality; and ST never promised that we'd magically outgrow that aspect of our nature. 

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On 9/4/2017 at 8:32 AM, Sehlat Vie said:

In regards to the deaths/mutilations on ST, I don't think the first season is unique in that regard.

But when people refer to ST's optimism, I don't think they're necessarily referring to the violence of the show, or the action.  I think they're referring to the big picture; ST makes a statement about hope for the future just by BEING.  The fact that it depicts humanity still being alive and thriving (and working together with others) in the centuries to come, and not wiped out by H-bombs; THAT'S the optimistic message.  Not whether individuals or ships are killed/mutilated every week.   Death, however horrific at times, is simply a part of mortality; and ST never promised that we'd magically outgrow that aspect of our nature. 

Oh I totally get it. But over the years that #optimism! has sometimes been interpreted to mean that Trek has to be spotless, shiny, candy colored confectionary perfection. TNG and VOY propagated this. So I take heart that TOS--at least the season 1 Ive been watching--was able to say: Yes, we have achieved a more advanced, humanistic society, but it ain't easy, it's messy, there is still evil forces at work and gruesome dangers that must be faced if we wish to explore the unknown.     

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You know it's interesting when thinking about Discovery's TV-MA rating. I wonder what TV rating the TNG episode "Justice" got with all its steamy racy stuff? I was watching that particular one last night along with "The Battle" (watching 'em in sequence on Blu-Ray). It's also funny because while it wasn't when this episode aired, later on when watching it I had nightmares about that Edo God thingy - I remember pulling the covers over my head thinking the thing would appear through one of my windows!

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1 hour ago, Rusty0918 said:

I wonder what TV rating the TNG episode "Justice" got with all its steamy racy stuff?

I never figured out why, after Riker and Yar snicker about the Edo being cool with getting it on at the drop of a hat...any hat, someone thought it was a cool idea to let Wesley go with.

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8 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

I never figured out why, after Riker and Yar snicker about the Edo being cool with getting it on at the drop of a hat...any hat, someone thought it was a cool idea to let Wesley go with.

Well, it was a bad episode (like a number of first season episodes).

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55 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

Well, it was a bad episode (like a number of first season episodes).

Putting a sort of, if not necessarily 'best of,' at least 'ones I'm entertained by' grouping from each series and season on my phone on, I find that only:

 

"The Naked Now"

"Justice"

"Code of Honor"

"Haven"

"Home Soil"

and "Skin of Evil"

...are truly unpalatable to me. The rest are entertaining enough on their own merits, or when viewed as camp. There are a few gems like "We'll Always Have Paris," which is very nicely sci-fi. I agree that the first season is nothing to write home about, but I'd rather watch "Symbiosis" again than "Masks."

But, yes, "Justice" is a pretty horrible. 

 

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2 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Putting a sort of, if not necessarily 'best of,' at least 'ones I'm entertained by' grouping from each series and season on my phone on, I find that only:

 

"The Naked Now"

"Justice"

"Code of Honor"

"Haven"

"Home Soil"

and "Skin of Evil"

...are truly unpalatable to me. The rest are entertaining enough on their own merits, or when viewed as camp. There are a few gems like "We'll Always Have Paris," which is very nicely sci-fi. I agree that the first season is nothing to write home about, but I'd rather watch "Symbiosis" again than "Masks."

But, yes, "Justice" is a pretty horrible. 

 

I beg to differ on "Home Soil," I think that one has gotten too bad a rap. The "bags of mostly water" was actually pretty clever.

"Angel One" though could definitely qualify to be on that list though.

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2 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

I beg to differ on "Home Soil," I think that one has gotten too bad a rap. The "bags of mostly water" was actually pretty clever.

"Angel One" though could definitely qualify to be on that list though.

"Home Soil" was indeed clever for the alien, but I think it's bogged down by its pacing and largely dull performances by the guest cast.

And "Angel One" is plenty entertaining if you abandon even the pretense of watching it as a serious episode. Accept that it's ridiculous and will not improve, it's actually pretty funny.

 

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4 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

"Home Soil" was indeed clever for the alien, but I think it's bogged down by its pacing and largely dull performances by the guest cast.

And "Angel One" is plenty entertaining if you abandon even the pretense of watching it as a serious episode. Accept that it's ridiculous and will not improve, it's actually pretty funny.

 

Maybe it's guilty fun. Well, back to Discovery. It'll obviously be more intense (no problem with that), etc. I wonder if lips might become a bit looser (like the sh** word being said in STID)? That I don't have much of a problem with. You know, a lot of early self-insertion Trek fanfics I did (which I disavow now) had the F-bomb in 'em.

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1 minute ago, Rusty0918 said:

Maybe it's guilty fun. Well, back to Discovery. It'll obviously be more intense (no problem with that), etc. I wonder if lips might become a bit looser (like the sh** word being said in STID)? That I don't have much of a problem with. You know, a lot of early self-insertion Trek fanfics I did (which I disavow now) had the F-bomb in 'em.

I think it'll all end up being pretty firmly PG-13 and all that entails.

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4 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

And "Angel One" is plenty entertaining if you abandon even the pretense of watching it as a serious episode. Accept that it's ridiculous and will not improve, it's actually pretty funny.

“Angel One” is absolutely hilarious.  I actually love it now... :laugh:

It’s terrible television but it’s wildly entertaining. 

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9 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

“Angel One” is absolutely hilarious.  I actually love it now... :laugh:

It’s terrible television but it’s wildly entertaining. 

It's worth the price of admission for Riker's little silver....evening shirt.... alone. :)

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32 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

It's worth the price of admission for Riker's little silver....evening shirt.... alone. :)

Oh man, that is the best.  Jonathan Frakes... I salute you!

 

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Let's not forget the other chest hair carpet that Angel One gives us.

AngelOne-2a.png

Definitely worth it. :angel_not:

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1 hour ago, Mr.Picard said:

Let's not forget the other chest hair carpet that Angel One gives us.

AngelOne-2a.png

Definitely worth it. :angel_not:

There is a LOT of skin in that episode, isn’t there?  :laugh:

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1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:

There is a LOT of skin in that episode, isn’t there?  :laugh:

I'm not complaining. :angel_not: 

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