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Rusty0918

Opinions on DSC's supposed TV-MA rating?

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I don't have that much of a problem with it if they aren't going to use it as an excuse to go all out gratuitous. I know "Daredevil" is TV-MA but it's not chock full of gratuitous nudity and all that fluff. Watching the previews it doesn't seem like MTV hijacked it (as opposed to the three reboot movies - OK "Beyond" wasn't that much of a problem). I know I've seen other TV-MA related shows (most notably "Game of Thrones").

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1 hour ago, Rusty0918 said:

I don't have that much of a problem with it if they aren't going to use it as an excuse to go all out gratuitous. I know "Daredevil" is TV-MA but it's not chock full of gratuitous nudity and all that fluff. Watching the previews it doesn't seem like MTV hijacked it (as opposed to the three reboot movies - OK "Beyond" wasn't that much of a problem). I know I've seen other TV-MA related shows (most notably "Game of Thrones").

I sincerely doubt it’ll be more like Game of Thrones.  But I wouldn’t be too surprised if the violence of the Klingon War were a lot more visceral than we’re used to in a ST series.   There might be some language as well, I’m guessing.   But things like full-frontal nudity or f-bombs?  Really doubt it.  

It’s still Star Trek, and younger audiences will be watching.

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2 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I sincerely doubt it’ll be more like Game of Thrones.  But I wouldn’t be too surprised if the violence of the Klingon War were a lot more visceral than we’re used to in a ST series.   There might be some language as well, I’m guessing.   But things like full-frontal nudity or f-bombs?  Really doubt it.  

It’s still Star Trek, and younger audiences will be watching.

Same thoughts here. You'll end up with maybe an "Oh, sh1t" here or there...definitely more violence and maybe a flash of bare backside now and then. Full frontal and simulated sex?

Not happening.

 

 

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1 hour ago, prometheus59650 said:

Same thoughts here. You'll end up with maybe an "Oh, sh1t" here or there...definitely more violence and maybe a flash of bare backside now and then. Full frontal and simulated sex?

Not happening.

They wouldn't want to break ST's proud tradition of poorly done romances, would they? :giggle:

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1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:

They wouldn't want to break ST's proud tradition of poorly done romances, would they? :giggle:

C'mon...How can you not be moved by Riker and the Irish chick who needed a place to wash her feet?

That wasn't cringe-worthy flirting AT ALL. :)

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3 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

C'mon...How can you not be moved by Riker and the Irish chick who needed a place to wash her feet?

That wasn't cringe-worthy flirting AT ALL. :)

Or Geordi’s creepy, stalkerish attempts at ‘relationships’ with Leah Brahms and Christy... 

tenor.gif

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1 minute ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Or Geordi’s creepy, stalkerish attempts at ‘relationships’ with Leah Brahms and Christy... 

tenor.gif

Who can forget Aquiel?

Seriously. If you know someone that did it, find out how for me.:laugh:

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11 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Or Geordi’s creepy, stalkerish attempts at ‘relationships’ with Leah Brahms and Christy... 

tenor.gif

You made me think of that scene in "Galaxy's Child" where Leah Brahms runs Geordi's holographic simulation when she chews Geordi out about it. I think if I were in the real Dr. Brahm's shoes, I'd react in the same way.

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29 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

You made me think of that scene in "Galaxy's Child" where Leah Brahms runs Geordi's holographic simulation when she chews Geordi out about it. I think if I were in the real Dr. Brahm's shoes, I'd react in the same way.

Of course, but, see, where we hit ' really creepy Geordi' territory is that Geordi is not particularly contrite. Indeed, he's angry at her because he's trying to realize this romance that literally exists only in his mind and she's resisting it. Yet he's strutting about and "All I've tried to do is offer you friendship." He's gaslighting her and she, as he hopes, she ends up feeling guilty, just as he plans.

It's like no one who ever wrote for TNG ever lived a normal romantic relationship.  

 

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They could make Discovery x-rated and I wouldn't be bothered. :P (I guess this is where the fic writer in me speaks - I'm used to this sort of thing. TNG's 'innocence' may help to fuel my imagination but it's also rather frustrating sometimes, the show can be such a tease... silver speedos, anyone? :P )

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8 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

They could make Discovery x-rated and I wouldn't be bothered. :P (I guess this is where the fic writer in me speaks - I'm used to this sort of thing. TNG's 'innocence' may help to fuel my imagination but it's also rather frustrating sometimes, the show can be such a tease... silver speedos, anyone? :P )

Ha! No, they should not make it slashy. Even though that would be fun for about maybe two episodes, and get really pedantic real fast. Enterprise tried that with their ads, but it wasn't a racy show.

Maybe they are only doing this because the network suits got squeamish, in 2017, about having a gay relationship on the show. They are still hyper conservative about that stuff, even now, apparently. It could be one of them utters the word, gasp!, gay somewhere. Oh put a rating of TV ma on that.

Ironically about Geordi, originally his character was supposed to be gay, but they changed it in 1988 and made him just kind of asexual, but by the later seasons, unlucky with women, which doesn't really make sense. If anything, he should have been bi, but most of them were supposed to be in the future where it doesn't matter.

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1 hour ago, Mr.Picard said:

They could make Discovery x-rated and I wouldn't be bothered. :P (I guess this is where the fic writer in me speaks - I'm used to this sort of thing. TNG's 'innocence' may help to fuel my imagination but it's also rather frustrating sometimes, the show can be such a tease... silver speedos, anyone? :P )

Same here, to be honest. If what's between the naked and the violent is genuinely GOOD? I'm cool.

 

46 minutes ago, Chimera82405 said:

Maybe they are only doing this because the network suits got squeamish, in 2017, about having a gay relationship on the show. They are still hyper conservative about that stuff, even now, apparently. It could be one of them utters the word, gasp!, gay somewhere. Oh put a rating of TV ma on that.

I don't think so in this case. It's 2017. While there will always be people to get upset over it, gay characters aren't so troubling as they once were in television.

 

46 minutes ago, Chimera82405 said:

If anything, he should have been bi,

Why?

46 minutes ago, Chimera82405 said:

but most of them were supposed to be in the future where it doesn't matter.

So? Even in a future where no one would care...literally no one would care if you're bi, or gay, or genderqueer or whatever you are, it doesn't change what you are or who you're into. That no one would care that you're bi doesn't somehow make you bi or make you open to bisexual relationships. You're attracted to both genders or not...whether you're accepted for that by your peer group or not.

Edited by prometheus59650

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CBS is "squeamish" about having gays in 2017?  That's not what I heard/saw at the DSC cast panel in Vegas; Wilson Cruz (who plays CMO Dr. Hugh Culber, who is in a relationship with Lt. Stamets) seemed to get plenty of support, both from the show and from the fans (the entire cast got a standing ovation); pretty sure CBS won't backpedal on this one...

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2 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

CBS is "squeamish" about having gays in 2017?  That's not what I heard/saw at the DSC cast panel in Vegas; Wilson Cruz (who plays CMO Dr. Hugh Culber, who is in a relationship with Lt. Stamets) seemed to get plenty of support, both from the show and from the fans (the entire cast got a standing ovation); pretty sure CBS won't backpedal on this one...

That "squeamishness" that made people freak out over "The Outcast" and "Rejoined" is no longer the mainstream.

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As for Geordi, I agree with Prometheus.  With his endless kvetching about not 'meeting the right woman' it'd be odd if he were just bi for no reason.  If he were organically written that way earlier on, it'd fit better.

At any rate, DSC sounds like it's going to be a lot more mature about sexuality, but I don't know if that attitude will translate down to how the relationships are actually portrayed.  Given ST's track record?  I'm preferring to take a wait-and-see attitude. 

Nevertheless, I'm very eagerly looking forward to DSC.  I just hope it portrays relationships (of any type) better than its predecessors...:laugh:

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On 8/22/2017 at 10:56 AM, prometheus59650 said:

Of course, but, see, where we hit ' really creepy Geordi' territory is that Geordi is not particularly contrite. Indeed, he's angry at her because he's trying to realize this romance that literally exists only in his mind and she's resisting it. Yet he's strutting about and "All I've tried to do is offer you friendship." He's gaslighting her and she, as he hopes, she ends up feeling guilty, just as he plans.

It's like no one who ever wrote for TNG ever lived a normal romantic relationship.  

 

Well, couldn't Geordi La Forge be reprimanded for conduct unbecoming of an officer for this? I mean, I'm wondering if Captain Picard would give him a chewing out for all of this. If someone on board the Enterprise feels threatened by a fellow officer and it's reported, that could land him in in the doghouse.

Back to DSC.

Grittiness sells on TV these days. I don't mind a darker tone.

The big thing is how far are they willing to go with the TV-MA rating. While I don't get the idea that it will be featuring anything gratuitous, we don't know the full story yet. This might be one of the reasons CBS decided to do this via All Access, since showing it on the network that way wouldn't work too well (the only things that are TV-MA are movies they broadcast like "Schindler's List" and "Saving Private Ryan"). Surely I doubt we'll be hearing the F-world every other minute e.g. "South Park," and whatnot.

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7 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

Well, couldn't Geordi La Forge be reprimanded for conduct unbecoming of an officer for this? I mean, I'm wondering if Captain Picard would give him a chewing out for all of this. If someone on board the Enterprise feels threatened by a fellow officer and it's reported, that could land him in in the doghouse.

This is something of an interesting question. If he had kept Leah to a fantasy on the holodeck, even if, as she feared, it was a 'Leah for every mood' I don't think it's an issue. Everyone has fantasy people they want and the holodeck is a singular way to interact with those fantasies. What he does there, as I see it, pretty much no matter what it is is his business so long as he handles himself as he should while on duty.

However, he clearly didn't do that here. He had issues separating fantasy Leah from actual Leah and put moves on her that she clearly didn't want. Cumulatively, with what she discovered, and Geordi's reaction to it, I definitely would have gone to Picard if I were her.

And it wasn't just a matter of the norms of now being impressed on back then. I remember being just as creeped out about him then.

43 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

The big thing is how far are they willing to go with the TV-MA rating. While I don't get the idea that it will be featuring anything gratuitous, we don't know the full story yet. This might be one of the reasons CBS decided to do this via All Access, since showing it on the network that way wouldn't work too well (the only things that are TV-MA are movies they broadcast like "Schindler's List" and "Saving Private Ryan"). Surely I doubt we'll be hearing the F-world every other minute e.g. "South Park," and whatnot.

I think someone involved with production said they were looking for a kind of hard PG-13.

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18 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

This is something of an interesting question. If he had kept Leah to a fantasy on the holodeck, even if, as she feared, it was a 'Leah for every mood' I don't think it's an issue. Everyone has fantasy people they want and the holodeck is a singular way to interact with those fantasies. What he does there, as I see it, pretty much no matter what it is is his business so long as he handles himself as he should while on duty.

However, he clearly didn't do that here. He had issues separating fantasy Leah from actual Leah and put moves on her that she clearly didn't want. Cumulatively, with what she discovered, and Geordi's reaction to it, I definitely would have gone to Picard if I were her.

And it wasn't just a matter of the norms of now being impressed on back then. I remember being just as creeped out about him then.

I think if "Galaxy's Child" was shown nowadays, I think a lot of people believe she should have gone to Picard, and then Picard giving Geordi a lecture about what was transpiring between him and Dr. Brahms. That kind of move would/should have undoubtedly gotten Geordi La Forge into some trouble.

18 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

I think someone involved with production said they were looking for a kind of hard PG-13.

I heard that too. If that was the case I'm surprised it's TV-MA instead of TV-14. Though then again, I don't know the full criteria on why it got a TV-MA rating. Again, my guess is it's more like "Daredevil" on Netflix - a "mild" TV-MA instead of a "hard" TV-MA (e.g. "South Park," stuff they show on MTV, etc.).

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8 hours ago, Rusty0918 said:

I think if "Galaxy's Child" was shown nowadays, I think a lot of people believe she should have gone to Picard, and then Picard giving Geordi a lecture about what was transpiring between him and Dr. Brahms. That kind of move would/should have undoubtedly gotten Geordi La Forge into some trouble.

LOL. I'd have given him a lecture all right. "You're not dealing with your fantasy woman, and I don't even want to talk about how much of a fantasy. I don't care and it's not my business. What is my business is that in the here and now what you've done is inappropriate. Unless you are engaging with her for the reasons she's here or other relevant ship's business you are to leave her alone."

8 hours ago, Rusty0918 said:

I heard that too. If that was the case I'm surprised it's TV-MA instead of TV-14. Though then again, I don't know the full criteria on why it got a TV-MA rating. Again, my guess is it's more like "Daredevil" on Netflix - a "mild" TV-MA instead of a "hard" TV-MA (e.g. "South Park," stuff they show on MTV, etc.).

Well, PG-13 covers everything from adult situations to some swearing and brief nudity. We'll just kind of have to see.

Edited by prometheus59650

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Well you could get away with a TV-14 rating with brief nudity. The "Stargate SG-1" pilot "Children of the Gods" got a TV-14 rating, although on video the MPAA gave it an R. Of course this was back in 1997. Not sure about now. I think there are probably going to be a lot of intense scenes but in the nudity/drug use/whatever area, not so much.

Though one thing for sure is not to jump to conclusions.

I could definitely see them ratchet up the violence. As with sexual stuff, I would be OK as long as the context is legit. One good example of this is the "Babylon 5" episode "Voices of Authority" where Julie Musante (that political officer assigned to Sheridan in the episode) tries to woo him by going cutsie-pie and even stripping naked (we don't see her...well you know).

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3 hours ago, Rusty0918 said:

Well you could get away with a TV-14 rating with brief nudity. The "Stargate SG-1" pilot "Children of the Gods" got a TV-14 rating, although on video the MPAA gave it an R. Of course this was back in 1997. Not sure

Did it? I don't really know.

When the pilot first aired on Showtime, they literally insisted on a full-frontal scene for Sha'rae/Amonet. The producers never wanted it and it was subsequently removed. Did it air with her at least topless on regular television somewhere with a TV-14? I literally have no idea.

Edited by prometheus59650

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I'm mainly concerned about the violence. One thing I've noticed about some of the Marvel shows on Netflix is the strange bursts of graphic violence. Sometimes I wonder if they really need to be that excessive...I hope the new Trek isn't as extreme in that department.

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2 hours ago, Explorer3 said:

I'm mainly concerned about the violence. One thing I've noticed about some of the Marvel shows on Netflix is the strange bursts of graphic violence. Sometimes I wonder if they really need to be that excessive...I hope the new Trek isn't as extreme in that department.

I imagine the violence will be a little bit more visceral, but I don’t think it’ll be “Walking Dead in Space.”  Or at least, I hope not (!?).  ST still has a large following of younger fans, and there’s really no reason to go there.   

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On 8/24/2017 at 2:25 PM, prometheus59650 said:

Did it? I don't really know.

When the pilot first aired on Showtime, they literally insisted on a full-frontal scene for Sha'rae/Amonet. The producers never wanted it and it was subsequently removed. Did it air with her at least topless on regular television somewhere with a TV-14? I literally have no idea.

I'm absolutely certain. I recorded it off Showtime back in 1998 (when they re-showed it) and the rating was CLEARLY TV-14 and not TV-MA (though video releases have had its rating as R).

23 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I imagine the violence will be a little bit more visceral, but I don’t think it’ll be “Walking Dead in Space.”  Or at least, I hope not (!?).  ST still has a large following of younger fans, and there’s really no reason to go there.   

Well, I can imagine then ratcheting things up a notch. I doubt they'd go "Walking Dead in Space" either, since that might be a bit too much off.

I heard something that TNG's "Conspiracy" has garnered a TV-MA rating - you know, the one with the guy's head exploding and the mother creature eating out of his gut. I wasn't totally grossed out the first time I saw it (I was eight, and I was in a period of binge-watching all of TNG's first season as the show grew on me like a fungus).

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11 hours ago, Rusty0918 said:

I heard something that TNG's "Conspiracy" has garnered a TV-MA rating - you know, the one with the guy's head exploding and the mother creature eating out of his gut. I wasn't totally grossed out the first time I saw it (I was eight, and I was in a period of binge-watching all of TNG's first season as the show grew on me like a fungus).

I was somewhat shocked that it aired, but thought they were just cool effects. I was never put off by it.

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