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Chimera82405

A New Way to Fly, Fossil Fuels?

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I was just thinking upon another viewing of that strange Discovery Netflix trailer, that maybe the Discovery is powered by plant mold (hence need for a mold specialist) and carbon matter, fossil fuels. They seem to think this is new tech in the story, showing the amazed commander seeing the plant arboretum and meeting the plant guy. I hope it isn't so. I hope that it will not be brought to us by Exxon Mobile or BP. In an enlightened space future, they would not be going backward to use fossil fuels. That is what it would be. They would get the matter from plants. That would be intensely backward tech wise. Hydrogen is much more abundant and useful for making deuterium, hydrogen 3, helium 3, and other materials, for impulse. Thew warp core should be a matter/antimatter intermix chamber through crystals, of fantasy dilithium. Your thoughts on the plant matter? Also this would not be productive enough. Your thoughts on that? They would be behind common everyday jets and cars, boats and trains. Not sure the future would do that  If so, is it a spoof?

"Power up the gasoline internal combustion engine, Mr. Stammets."

"Yes, Captain. Engaging carbonic transfer."

"Wow, we will now be traveling at a whole 300 miles an hour!"

"We'll be in London in 14 hours, sir."

Edited by Chimera82405

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I doubt that. Although you never know. Heck, the JJ-prise seemed to run on hydroelectricity (water TURBINE control!) - yeah I know that's not really the case but still.

Well, the plant arboretum might just be a botanic garden. The refit Enterprise and Enterprise-A were implied to have something like that.

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30 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

I doubt that. Although you never know. Heck, the JJ-prise seemed to run on hydroelectricity (water TURBINE control!) - yeah I know that's not really the case but still.

I just always thought that was some cooling system or other.

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Just now, prometheus59650 said:

I just always thought that was some cooling system or other.

It was probably just some means to move water, that's probably it. I joke about it behing hydro-electirc because - well - turbines are used to generate electricity primarily.

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24 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

It was probably just some means to move water, that's probably it. I joke about it behing hydro-electirc because - well - turbines are used to generate electricity primarily.

Imagine it takes less energy to recycle water than to replicate it.

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Locutus   

Somebody in another duscussion forum reminded me of "Equinox," wherein Captain Ransom took advantage of interdimensional lifeforms who created antimatter to speed up their warp engines.  Perhaps they have figured out a away to capitalize on space fungus to create anti-matter and improved warp drive.  Captain Ransom probably got the notion from somewhere.  He himself was an exobiologist.

From Memory Alpha:

"Scanning the lifeforms, they discovered that they were emitting high levels of antimatter, and subsequently began to engage in criminal experiments to murder the lifeforms and convert their remains into a source of fuel. Augmenting their warp drive, the Equinox crew were faced with the tantalizing possibility of returning to the Alpha Quadrant in mere months, but also began to come under near-constant attacks by the nucleogenic lifeforms."

Nucleogenic fungus ... that's my bet!

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4 hours ago, Locutus said:

Somebody in another duscussion forum reminded me of "Equinox," wherein Captain Ransom took advantage of interdimensional lifeforms who created antimatter to speed up their warp engines.  Perhaps they have figured out a away to capitalize on space fungus to create anti-matter and improved warp drive.  Captain Ransom probably got the notion from somewhere.  He himself was an exobiologist.

From Memory Alpha:

"Scanning the lifeforms, they discovered that they were emitting high levels of antimatter, and subsequently began to engage in criminal experiments to murder the lifeforms and convert their remains into a source of fuel. Augmenting their warp drive, the Equinox crew were faced with the tantalizing possibility of returning to the Alpha Quadrant in mere months, but also began to come under near-constant attacks by the nucleogenic lifeforms."

Nucleogenic fungus ... that's my bet!

I doubt that. I think it's probably just a ship's arboretum or botanic garden, that's the most obvious explanation.

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Locutus   
46 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

I doubt that. I think it's probably just a ship's arboretum or botanic garden, that's the most obvious explanation.

I doubt that!  One of the main characters is an expert in space fungus for SOME reason.  There will be a point to it.  I read an article describing Lt. Stamets as an "engineering-bound scientist." Why engineering?

Here is the article:

https:ncc-1031.com/news/star-trek-discovery-cast-talk-about-their-characters/amp/

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8 hours ago, Rusty0918 said:

I doubt that. I think it's probably just a ship's arboretum or botanic garden, that's the most obvious explanation.

^
This.

Hello?  They’re exploring new worlds....?  A botanical expert might come in handy.   See: “The Martian.”  :P

7 hours ago, Locutus said:

I doubt that!  One of the main characters is an expert in space fungus for SOME reason.  There will be a point to it.  I read an article describing Lt. Stamets as an "engineering-bound scientist." Why engineering?

Here is the article:

https:ncc-1031.com/news/star-trek-discovery-cast-talk-about-their-characters/amp/

I’m guessing he had a dual major in college... or he holds multiple degrees.

Just because he’s expert in one field doesn’t preclude his expertise in another.   Sulu was a helmsman, but prior to that he was ship’s physicist (“Where No Man...”) and we also learned that he had a talent for botany, with his own botanical lab (“Man Trap”).   

In deep space travel, with infrequent stops for replacement personnel, you’d need multiple-science specialists onboard.   Just as the ISS currently has science specialists who also learn how to do basic piloting of Soyuz ingress/egress spacecraft, as well as basic engineering/troubleshooting. 

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10 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

^
This.

Hello?  They’re exploring new worlds....?  A botanical expert might come in handy.   See: “The Martian.”  :P

I’m guessing he had a dual major in college... or he holds multiple degrees.

Just because he’s expert in one field doesn’t preclude his expertise in another.   Sulu was a helmsman, but prior to that he was ship’s physicist (“Where No Man...”) and we also learned that he had a talent for botany, with his own botanical lab (“Man Trap”).   

In deep space travel, with infrequent stops for replacement personnel, you’d need multiple-science specialists onboard.   Just as the ISS currently has science specialists who also learn how to do basic piloting of Soyuz ingress/egress spacecraft, as well as basic engineering/troubleshooting. 

Yes. I love that DSC is treating scientists more professionally and realistically. Two main characters are very specific specialists. Stamits is the fungus guy, and Burnham is a first contact specialist. Real science works this way. Spock is a renaisance man, but science is too big to have one person know all of it. I've also heard that the Discovery is a science vessel. So Im hopeful that DSC will do some interesting storytelling with science in ways that other shows never bothered to do. 

That said, there is a danger of being more fanciful than scientific in the use of "science!" and subspace fungus that can power a warp engine sounds like it's not based on any actual science fringe or otherwise that we can possibly speculate about. The science in science-fiction is only fun if it is based in actual science. Otherwise it's just fantasy, magic orbs and crystals.     

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52 minutes ago, Justin Snead said:

Yes. I love that DSC is treating scientists more professionally and realistically. Two main characters are very specific specialists. Stamits is the fungus guy, and Burnham is a first contact specialist. Real science works this way. Spock is a renaisance man, but science is too big to have one person know all of it. I've also heard that the Discovery is a science vessel. So Im hopeful that DSC will do some interesting storytelling with science in ways that other shows never bothered to do. 

That said, there is a danger of being more fanciful than scientific in the use of "science!" and subspace fungus that can power a warp engine sounds like it's not based on any actual science fringe or otherwise that we can possibly speculate about. The science in science-fiction is only fun if it is based in actual science. Otherwise it's just fantasy, magic orbs and crystals.     

And, to be honest, ST does (often) cross that line between fantasy and science fiction quite often.   But even within its made up pseudoscience, there is a consistency.  Transporters may be utter nonsense but adding “buffer coils” and “Heisenberg compensators” does a credible enough job of elevating them to a niche beyond magic orbs and crystals, agreed.   If you can’t base a ST concept in real science?  Then at least couch it in scientific-sounding jargon (the ever-handy technobabble), to give it a shred of credibility. 

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14 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

And, to be honest, ST does (often) cross that line between fantasy and science fiction quite often.   But even within its made up pseudoscience, there is a consistency.  Transporters may be utter nonsense but adding “buffer coils” and “Heisenberg compensators” does a credible enough job of elevating them to a niche beyond magic orbs and crystals, agreed.   If you can’t base a ST concept in real science?  Then at least couch it in scientific-sounding jargon (the ever-handy technobabble), to give it a shred of credibility. 

As long as one doesn't go overkill on it. What's bad about technobabble is it's often used to get writers out of trouble. Some examples of this are in DS9's "Tears of the Prophets" when the way to win was to imprint a Federation warp signature onto the central power station of the turrets (yes another big problem there), or basically remodulating your "scanafranz" if you get the gist.

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In Equinox, this trans dimensional alien stuff used to make antimatter is technobabble. Matter is the opposite of antimatter. If a creature created it, he would bee destroyed the moment he created it. If the creature is acting like the fantasy stuff, Trek's dilithium, then why is the power better or more efficient? It would likely be worse, as they're from a completely other dimension, where physical reality is different enough to make it work, but close enough that their existence in our universe would not obliterate them.

Sponsored by Exxon, Shell and BP? If we see a lot of oil commercials with it, maybe. It's like back in the 1960s when shows plugged cigarettes.

Now if it was like the mistake in Where No Man, 'Lithium cracking station', then he would merely cause the crew of relax and go to sleep, as it is an antidepressant. Maybe that is what the Equinox captain was talking.

Gamma ray bursts and some other explosions can created tiny bits of antimatter, but in contact with matter, such as space dust, they are destroyed.

Edited by Chimera82405

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23 hours ago, Rusty0918 said:

As long as one doesn't go overkill on it. What's bad about technobabble is it's often used to get writers out of trouble. Some examples of this are in DS9's "Tears of the Prophets" when the way to win was to imprint a Federation warp signature onto the central power station of the turrets (yes another big problem there), or basically remodulating your "scanafranz" if you get the gist.

As I see it, the Treknobabble wasn't even needed there. Those things will attack any non-Dominion signature with no regard to its own power source? Allied ships were already being blown apart left and right. Just send a group of ships to strafe the asteroid since the Cardie platforms will follow them.  

Edited by prometheus59650

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15 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

As I see it, the Treknobabble wasn't even needed there. Those things will attack any non-Dominion signature with no regard to its own power source? Allied ships were already being blown apart left and right. Just send a group of ships to strafe the asteroid since the Cardie platforms will follow them.  

Well, using the deflector dish to imprint a warp signature is well...cheap. Heck, the whole concept of having a central power station for those orbital defense platforms could never work. I know Steve K. of Trekweb blasted this whole concept, and I agree with him.

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26 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

Well, using the deflector dish to imprint a warp signature is well...cheap. Heck, the whole concept of having a central power station for those orbital defense platforms could never work. I know Steve K. of Trekweb blasted this whole concept, and I agree with him.

True. The whole setup is designed so the Dominion can lose. If each platform had its own power source the Federation would have been shredded to the last ship. 

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2 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

True. The whole setup is designed so the Dominion can lose. If each platform had its own power source the Federation would have been shredded to the last ship. 

Well, they should have come up with something different than that, at least in my opinion. Anyways, I hope they don't overdo it in DSC. I don't want to see "remodulating the scanafranz" and all that. That's what hurt Trek - and was lampshaded in "Galaxy Quest!"

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Just now, Rusty0918 said:

Well, they should have come up with something different than that, at least in my opinion. Anyways, I hope they don't overdo it in DSC. I don't want to see "remodulating the scanafranz" and all that. That's what hurt Trek - and was lampshaded in "Galaxy Quest!"

I would rather that was long gone, too. However, I have some faith in the likes of Meyer. He didn't bypass the primary EPS conduits to overload the main deflector dish so that it emits an anti-verteron pulse to beat Khan.

It's people like him that I think will keep us from much of that nonsense.

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1 hour ago, prometheus59650 said:

I would rather that was long gone, too. However, I have some faith in the likes of Meyer. He didn't bypass the primary EPS conduits to overload the main deflector dish so that it emits an anti-verteron pulse to beat Khan.

It's people like him that I think will keep us from much of that nonsense.

Yeah, I agree. I know some complain about the prefix code, but that is innovative and a good safety feature to have on Starfleet vessels.

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2 hours ago, Rusty0918 said:

Yeah, I agree. I know some complain about the prefix code, but that is innovative and a good safety feature to have on Starfleet vessels.

Who would complain about a prefix code? I mean, I kind of want at least a basic password to keep enemies from controlling my starship.

I don't find anything particularly technobabble-ish about that.

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No it's not. It's a well-thought out security feature (although personally I do think it's a bit *too* basic), but still.

Edited by Rusty0918

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1 hour ago, Rusty0918 said:

No it's not. It's a well-thought out security feature (although personally I do think it's a bit *too* basic), but still.

I chalk that up to "computers new" back then.

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The one thing I have heard about DSC that Im not in favor of is that they will have technobabble. While it was introduced as a 'feature not a bug' of Trek on TNG (probably because it helped establish how smart Data was), it was overused on VOY as the deus ex machina of so many episodes. Reading about TOS you find that GR and the other producers worked hard to strip out as much technobabble as possible that writers put into the scripts. The writers wanted to invent all this cool sounding technical jargon to convey Science-Fiction! But the producers worried that would confuse the audience, and distract them from the real story. In the first season TOS Ive been rewatching the main story is almost never revolved around a technical problem, of if there is a technical problem it is secondary to the human conflict or drama. 

So with DSC, I dont know, it sounds like the Stamets character is suppose to be super smart, and they will show this by having him spout technobabble--like Data. Hopefully his character will be more than just that.      

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It depends on the extent of it in the final product, I agree, but there's always going to be some treknobabble.

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