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Rusty0918

"Mass Effect Andromeda" (does include game spoilers)

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Personally, I don't find the game to be bad at all, although I know some people have given it a bad rap. I do think it's quite clever with the Andromeda Initiative, which is eventually found out to have taken off thanks to the Reapers in the original Mass Effect arc.

Yes it's not the same people, but I don't really have a problem with it. I enjoy making things more viable for the Andromeda Initiative once we enter, colonization. Feels like you're helping humankind out in the Andromeda Galaxy.

And of course they keep things open ended so that there can be more sequels - this isn't a serialized trilogy deal.

I've been playing it on my PS4. What do you folks think about it?

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Is the game perfect? No. Is it better than the whiners suggest? Lots and lots. The gunplay is pretty solid and I like that the formal classes have been done away with in favor of a mix and match of abilities and then housing those under profiles, though I tend to just stick to one for a playthrough.

As to the characters...I pretty much like them all. If there is a weakness in any of the characters, really, it's the small issue that I think they went too far into the "casual" for Ryder. I get that they didn't want a consummate near-super soldier like Shepard, but Ryder is still a young professional in whatever background you picked and they just come off as a little too Laissez-faire for my taste.

A bigger failing for me is the AI. EDI was a stellar character over two games. She had wit and emotion and Tricia Helfer just nailed the hell out of it. For a character that is actually integrated into Ryder he's not much of a companion. SAM is empty, monotone, unengaging, and somewhat boring. Siri is more emotional than SAM and that fact drags the game down a bit.  

I think a lot of the disdain for this game is that they are comparing it to the "legend" of Mass Effect without really remembering the games they played. ME1's story was no less trite and cliché as critics accuse ME:A of being. The characters had potential, but most of them were empty, with Tali being nothing but a living Quarian-wiki, Add to that some near-busted gameplay and, while I like it, it ain't all that.

ME2? Great voice acting from the likes of Tricia Helfer and Martin Sheen for impressive and expressive characters. A great story that I think actually benefits from the fact that it has almost nothing to do with the Reapers which were already put up as nebulous and unstoppable. And everything from the Omega Relay to the end? Purely cinematic. Add much-smoother gameplay and it's a 10 of 10.

And we get to ME3. The only way I can salvage that in my mind is to go through the beam, choose "destroy" and save the party in the Citadel DLC for post-game, and it's hard to do that anymore. The game needed another six months in development when it came to the "Priority: Earth" mission and that's not counting an ending that completely robs the player of the illusion of agency through the invention of the Starbrat. If one wanted those three options at the end, they should have come more organically from the story.

(i.e. "Let's look at how this thing COULD work with its magic beams. Ash or Kaiden: Destroy? EDI: EDI lays out the problems with AI and a brighter future could be made if the gizmo were modified for synthesis. Maybe when Shep gets there she realizes she has the option to imprint herself upon the Reaper programming and stop them that way and use them to help rebuild gives you "Control" as an ending)

You put Starbrat in there and it's, "All this has been set up long before you showed up. All I need you for is the opposable thumbs. Pick."

And that completely ruins it for me.

So, I like it ME:A better than 1 or 3, and I'm sad that this game will probably see no story DLC and the game will be forgotten. At the very least I think everyone who paid for the game is owed the Quarian story DLC that's all but promised by the game. Unite all the races that came and then let the game sunset and fans can figure it out after that.

A lot of "problems" that this game might have you can lay square at the feet of EA and BW who put their best minds and resources to Dragon Age 4 and Anthem. In many respects Andromeda came out better than it had any right to. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Agreed, I liked ME:A better than both 1 and 3 as well. I never thought SAM was that bad, he was fine with me.

As with ME3 - oh gosh don't get me started on Starbrat. In only a few minutes they wrecked things big time - he's many times worse than Jar Jar Binks from "Star Wars" fame. This is a "What Were They Thinking?" kind of deal. When I heard about how bad the conclusions were, I decided to read in advance before playing any more of the game and what I saw kept me from playing any more of it (which spared me of the shock). They salvaged it somewhat with the "Extended Cut," but the true saving grace to this game is actually a third party mod known as the "Happy Ending Mod," which completely cuts out Starbrat altogether. Shepard is rescued from the Citadel before the Crucible fires, re-untied with his crew, etc. The Reapers are destroyed, etc. Though it's only for PCs though.

They never mention the fate of Earth in ME:A - I guess that's left up to us to think - since Andromeda is supposed to be a clean slate. Glad they went with this instead of a prequel.

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2 hours ago, Rusty0918 said:

Agreed, I liked ME:A better than both 1 and 3 as well. I never thought SAM was that bad, he was fine with me.

As with ME3 - oh gosh don't get me started on Starbrat. In only a few minutes they wrecked things big time - he's many times worse than Jar Jar Binks from "Star Wars" fame. This is a "What Were They Thinking?" kind of deal. When I heard about how bad the conclusions were, I decided to read in advance before playing any more of the game and what I saw kept me from playing any more of it (which spared me of the shock). They salvaged it somewhat with the "Extended Cut," but the true saving grace to this game is actually a third party mod known as the "Happy Ending Mod," which completely cuts out Starbrat altogether. Shepard is rescued from the Citadel before the Crucible fires, re-untied with his crew, etc. The Reapers are destroyed, etc. Though it's only for PCs though.

They never mention the fate of Earth in ME:A - I guess that's left up to us to think - since Andromeda is supposed to be a clean slate. Glad they went with this instead of a prequel.

I agree. Jar-Jar tries and fails miserably as comic relief. Starbrat comes in, seemingly simply to snatch your narrative from you after three games. You get one or two lines from him trying to placate you by saying none of this could have been possible without you, but it rings absurdly hollow. The EC is something of a salvage, but it's not nearly enough for me. That ending is what happens when the likes of lead designer Casey Hudson, who, apparently LIKES all that deliberately esoteric stuff, locks himself in a room with one of the other leads to write it and then NOT subject it to peer-review.

I have seen the happy Ending mod and, for me, it's canon. A happy unicorn ending should have always been a possibility.

I am glad for the clean slate as well. A lot of player critics wanted to stay in the Milky Way, but you can't really do that because you finally kill the trilogy's 'player' choice once and for all. The only reason for a player to see it set there is to see their "Destroy," "Control," or "Synthesis" choice validated and then complain that they're not...or not in the way they've built up in their heads.

They could only lose more with the fans by staying in this galaxy.

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11 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

I agree. Jar-Jar tries and fails miserably as comic relief. Starbrat comes in, seemingly simply to snatch your narrative from you after three games. You get one or two lines from him trying to placate you by saying none of this could have been possible without you, but it rings absurdly hollow. The EC is something of a salvage, but it's not nearly enough for me. That ending is what happens when the likes of lead designer Casey Hudson, who, apparently LIKES all that deliberately esoteric stuff, locks himself in a room with one of the other leads to write it and then NOT subject it to peer-review.

I have seen the happy Ending mod and, for me, it's canon. A happy unicorn ending should have always been a possibility.

I am glad for the clean slate as well. A lot of player critics wanted to stay in the Milky Way, but you can't really do that because you finally kill the trilogy's 'player' choice once and for all. The only reason for a player to see it set there is to see their "Destroy," "Control," or "Synthesis" choice validated and then complain that they're not...or not in the way they've built up in their heads.

They could only lose more with the fans by staying in this galaxy.

I remember the horrible backlash that happened with the game - this was a real disaster for Bioware (and for EA). I wonder what James Rolfe thinks of it - it'd be interesting to see him rip on the conclusion as part of his "Angry Video Game Nerd" shows. The bad thing is with the original conclusions to ME3, they don't just ruin that game, but they retroactively ruin the first two as well. I know my sister commented that the people behind ME3 said that they wouldn't pull a "Lost" (that series finale that well...you know) and afterwards, the people behind "Lost" said they had nothing to do with it. In some ways, it was like tacking on the "2001: A Space Odyssey" ending to "Star Wars."

I know many wrote the original conclusions off with the "Indoctrination Theory" but there was this "Last Hours" thing that was basically a smoking gun - what Casey Hudson wanted was "LOTS OF SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE." Obviously, the original conclusions - you just basically screw the galaxy in different colors, probably the most nihilistic thing ever. The original final minutes of ME3 were a travesty worse than stuff like the Voyager episodes "Threshold" and "Spirit Folk," TNG's "Shades of Grey," or DS9's "Let He Who is Without Sin," etc.

As with Mass Effect Andromeda, it seems Bioware learned their lesson never to pull a stunt like this again.

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12 hours ago, Rusty0918 said:

I remember the horrible backlash that happened with the game - this was a real disaster for Bioware (and for EA).

It was horrific. For weeks. BW actually had to constantly police the boards for a while because the rage was so bad. And, it honestly wasn't helped by the fact that BW's response was, basically, 'suck it up.' There was no acknowledgement really that it was cataclysmically-poorly received and no explanation as to what went behind the decisions made. All there was was this spiel about artistic integrity, which does have a little bit of merit and yet not. If you create a mural and let it sit there, if people don't like it you can shrug, "It was what I wanted, don't like it, don't look at it.

But, in this case you're making a consumer product. You have to get people to want to buy it, so what the consumer expectation is, have to factor in. I can guarantee that no one in the audience wanted, "pick a color."

And Bioware stuck to its guns that the ending was the ending...until two days after EA's stock price dropped 12%.

Honestly, Indoctrination Theory was simply millions of fans trying to make sense of the incomprehensible. People were pre-emptively angry at the notion that they were going to have to buy the "true" ending as DLC. Hell, I was actually hopeful that it was true even though I pretty much knew it wasn't.

Most players wanted to see Shep live. They wanted to see a happy ending. At the very least they wanted an ending that fit the tone of what they'd played over the past decade.

12 hours ago, Rusty0918 said:

In some ways, it was like tacking on the "2001: A Space Odyssey" ending to "Star Wars."

This is exactly what it is. Indeed, a 2001 ending would have made more sense in SW as it did consistently flirt with spiritual/otherworldly stuff. I can see Darth dying having turned back to the light, the Emperor ready to kill Luke and then ghost Anakin expending his "spirit force" to save him.

But to try that on Mass Effect? It's like slapping Jesus into the end of a Rambo movie.

Even now, I get to Priority: Earth and just,,,no. 

ME;A I get plenty of character moments, from the loyalty missions, to the "Movie Night: mission, to the ending itself. If there was one DLC to deal with the lost Quarians, I would be perfectly satisfied with Andromeda. I accept that that's unlikely to happen. Even so, it's FAR more satisfying an end than ME3. It's uplifting...the hero moves on. It's what ME3 should have offered...at least as an option. 

Edited by prometheus59650

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I was on those boards when it happened. Bottom line is that you can't defend the way that game concluded originally - best thing you could do is make excuses for it. Granted I was spared the pain and misery of actually seeing the nihilistic conclusion since my sister told me about people complaining about it. I looked before I leapt there. I know one person discussed this with one of his English professors, who in turn said that the stunt that BW pulled was a complete and utter travesty.

Another thing is that BW lied about how the game was supposed to conclude, and that made things even worse. As my sister said, they said they weren't going to pull a "Lost" - which is pretty much exactly what they did.

Ah yes, "artistic integrity," I remember that excuse for them to justify what they did. If this was a more widely-broadcasted form of media, I wonder if "artistic integrity" would have gained a household name like "wardrobe malfunction" did.

BW sure had some nerve in trying to stop this. They paid reviewers to give reviews that adored the way the game concluded and smear all those people against it, trying to put a positive spin on things.

The only time I played ME3 all the way through was when I had the Happy Ending Mod installed with it. And that gave me satisfaction. I give kudos to the developers who made that all possible. This was more of an epic third party fix to the game that basically saves the trilogy, and I was amazed when I first saw it.

Anyways, back to Andromeda - I know some have given it a bad rap, but not me. I enjoy it, and I'm playing it over again. When you get right down to it, the Andromeda Initiative and why they eventually went does make quite a bit of sense (tying into the Reaper invasion in the trilogy).

I know, some Quarian or other-related DLC might be good, although it seems clear that BW isn't going that direction with ME:A. Maybe if there's a sequel to it. I hope it's not doing that badly.

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I'm halfway through the game and I'm enjoying revisiting that universe. I think that the solution of continuing the franchise as a tangent was brilliant. It maintains familiarity. 

Some things that I'm not happy with are the graphics. I felt like the character rendering in the previous games was better. There is just something off with the way some characters look. A Krogan is a Krogan. Not much to do there but Peebe looks really weird especially considering the way other Asari looked. Having said that, she is my favourite of the bunch. She's pretty funny and randy. In contrast, Miranda burned that screen. Ufff!!!

Aside from the looks, the character companions are just ok compared to the other companions in the other games. They're kinda generic. And Liam is just awful!!! Jack, Legion, Thane were all great characters. You wanted to know more about them. 

I'll report back when I finish. 

 

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1 hour ago, Rusty0918 said:

I was on those boards when it happened. Bottom line is that you can't defend the way that game concluded originally - best thing you could do is make excuses for it.

Pretty much this. And I would place the ending of Lost as better than this by far, for the simple reasons that:

A) There is at least some attempt at explanation, even if it's just putting a few bread crumbs down there for the viewer to work with. In the original ending there is nothing. Shep picks a console, colored explosion, Normandy bolts away from colored fireball, then ends up on jungle planet.

B) And the creators of Lost can tell you what each crumb means and what they intended. They are also WILLING to explain it when asked. That's having artistic integrity for a weird ending.

The likes of Hudson have talked about how their end was poorly received and how terrible that is and not what they intended, but they've never, to my knowledge sat down and explained their logic behind completely altering the narrative tone, or what it was all supposed to be,

In short, they aren't interested in trying to defend it either.

1 hour ago, Rusty0918 said:

Anyways, back to Andromeda - I know some have given it a bad rap, but not me. I enjoy it, and I'm playing it over again. When you get right down to it, the Andromeda Initiative and why they eventually went does make quite a bit of sense

It absolutely makes sense that enough people might believe Shep enough to ensure the survival of the races. And it keeps the creators from ever having to touch the mess that a post ME3 Milky Way would be. I like the game and probably will be playing it for a while yet, particularly since it's likely all there will be for 5 years or so...at least.

1 hour ago, Nombrecomun said:

Some things that I'm not happy with are the graphics. I felt like the character rendering in the previous games was better. There is just something off with the way some characters look

 

I know what you mean. Cora has that quite a bit, IMHO. But the patches have improved things a lot.

Liam? That sort of simpleton that I never use? He's familiar. :) And to this day I want more Jack and Legion. :)

 

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The original intention for ME3, from what I heard, was to involve the "dark energy" stuff that was introduced in ME2 (on that world the quarians were studying, etc.) and was spoken about later on by Parassini (?) on Illium. The idea was that Reapers were created to solve the "dark energy" thing that was gnawing away at the Milky Way. From what I heard, the original intention was to give Shepard a choice of sacrificing humanity (by having them melted down to form human-reapers like the larva we saw in ME2) or having them try to fix the problem with the time they had left. This still wouldn't have worked for me if none of the decisions I made added up to this.

I know there were some who tried to defend the original conclusions to ME3 by commenting that Joker and EDI were like a future Adam and Eve and that the Synthesis ending was supposed to be the "perfect" ending.

Again, kudos to the thirty party devs who "fixed" ME3 with the Happy Ending mod. I wouldn't play it any other way.

Back to ME:A Never really had a problem with the way the characters and stuff looked. Yeah there may be a few things off but it never seemed to bother me. The Kett's exaltation though seemed a bit like the Reaper indoctrination, although they transform you completely into a kett. Granted it's not as ominous as the Reaper's indoctrination, but I never minded that much for it. Nor is it as terrifying as being put on one of those Reaper spike-thingies and being transformed into a husk (or one of those other ugly Reaper creations). I know the husks were downright creepy in the original Mass Effect. Though still it did leave an emotional punch on Jaal when he realized this was the case.

It was interesting at the end seeing the Dyson Sphere (yes there is one in ME:A) - really something. Wonder where they got that idea from?

One thing I would have liked to have seen would be the Nexus being without the ring when you first come to it, and then things get built onto it when you progress. But that's not that big of a concern.

Wonder if there'll be any sequels to it?

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9 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

The original intention for ME3, from what I heard, was to involve the "dark energy" stuff that was introduced in ME2 (on that world the quarians were studying, etc.) and was spoken about later on by Parassini (?) on Illium. The idea was that Reapers were created to solve the "dark energy" thing that was gnawing away at the Milky Way. From what I heard, the original intention was to give Shepard a choice of sacrificing humanity (by having them melted down to form human-reapers like the larva we saw in ME2) or having them try to fix the problem with the time they had left. This still wouldn't have worked for me if none of the decisions I made added up to this.

I'm not sure why it was dropped, much less dropped for what we were given, but it all makes much more sense than what we were given. It at least adheres to some of themes in the previous games, though I would have at least been 'dissatisfied' with it as opposed to disappointed, dismayed and left feeling duped after a decade of investment in the OT.

Honestly, as I've reflected over years, I can see why they might not have wanted to do it again this way because it's what they did in ME2 and they wouldn't want to be accused of repeating themselves, but ME3 should have ended in much the same way 2 did. Rather than just individuals, each of your allies and allied powers are chess pieces. You come to decision points on how to use them and those decisions lead to others.

You get to a point of, say, a bunch of Reaper bunkers impeding your progress and, "Order Turian orbital bombardment" and then that means that the Turians later can't help you at all or they can help you in a different way. "Send STG teams" or "Send Rachni Ground Forces" to try to overwhelm them. You can keep those readiness points and allocate a precious few here and there to maybe give your choice an edge, but those parts of the battle play out beyond your control like the old 4x games like Masters of Orion. Insititute a bit of randomness so there's no way you can make it through with zero losses because that doesn't work with the narrative of a kill or die survival battle for the galaxy either.   

And maybe you can choose to put yourself in a position to sacrifice yourself to save a segment of the force if you choose at the last and that helps them win even as it removes you from anything beyond being a spectator. But, at the end there is a way for Shep to survive and their LI to survive and you get that happy ending.  

But that game needed six more months. It, like Andomeda, was rushed to meet fiscal year deadlines.

44 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

I know there were some who tried to defend the original conclusions to ME3 by commenting that Joker and EDI were like a future Adam and Eve and that the Synthesis ending was supposed to be the "perfect" ending.

 

I won't get too KM here, but the very notion of Synthesis is appalling to me. One of the developers who came up with it honestly seemed flummoxed that so much of the fanbase took issue with it, saying, "Life is life."

Well, if I came out and said, "Differences are the problem in this world. Everything would be better if everyone were one color and mono-gendered. I have a magic beam that will fix that and John Public and ONLY John Public from Anytown, Iowa gets to decide if that happens and no one else gets a say." I think people would be, shall we say, upset. But Shep gets put into a position where they get to violate the very being of every soul in the galaxy and remake them all and the first thing anyone gets to know anything about it is when the green beam hits.   

No. Just a thousand times, no.

54 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

Wonder where they got that idea from?

Dyson spheres are not new, but it really did all fit together nicely in terms of story. As for sequels? I doubt it. You'll either get prequel stuff like the Turian War, or if the pick up in Andromeda, it'll be long after Ryder.

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3 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

I won't get too KM here, but the very notion of Synthesis is appalling to me. One of the developers who came up with it honestly seemed flummoxed that so much of the fanbase took issue with it, saying, "Life is life."

Well, if I came out and said, "Differences are the problem in this world. Everything would be better if everyone were one color and mono-gendered. I have a magic beam that will fix that and John Public and ONLY John Public from Anytown, Iowa gets to decide if that happens and no one else gets a say." I think people would be, shall we say, upset. But Shep gets put into a position where they get to violate the very being of every soul in the galaxy and remake them all and the first thing anyone gets to know anything about it is when the green beam hits.   

When you get right down to it, it *IS* appalling. With Synthesis (Extended Cut-wise), it's weird to see everyone with pulsating green stuff throughout them. You have a strong point about that being anti-diverse.

3 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Dyson spheres are not new, but it really did all fit together nicely in terms of story. As for sequels? I doubt it. You'll either get prequel stuff like the Turian War, or if the pick up in Andromeda, it'll be long after Ryder.

Well, the one thing that came into mind of course was TNG's "Relics." Andromeda wasn't meant to be part of a story arc, but they did leave room for sequels. There just won't be some pre-defined trilogy.

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Bioware finally confirms, no sigle-player DLC.

A damn shame, really. A bummer end to, when all is said and done, a decent game undone by fan expectations, internet whining from people, most of whom probably never played the game to begin with and developers at the C-level of the business who had bigger fish to fry and never cared to begin with.

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12 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Bioware finally confirms, no sigle-player DLC.

A damn shame, really. A bummer end to, when all is said and done, a decent game undone by fan expectations, internet whining from people, most of whom probably never played the game to begin with and developers at the C-level of the business who had bigger fish to fry and never cared to begin with.

Yeah. It's a pity others didn't accept this, it was a good concept.

Well, I don't mind the lack of single-player DLC. It seemed complete as it is. Though I do wonder where they will go from here.

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1 minute ago, Rusty0918 said:

Well, I don't mind the lack of single-player DLC. It seemed complete as it is. Though I do wonder where they will go from here.

I would have liked a single DLC that would have recovered the Quarian ark. Put everyone together again, then I'd be fine with just that.

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16 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

I would have liked a single DLC that would have recovered the Quarian ark. Put everyone together again, then I'd be fine with just that.

I think they should have done that, although I can live with it.

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1 hour ago, Rusty0918 said:

I think they should have done that, although I can live with it.

Oh, I'll live with it because there's no choice, but it's a serious dangling string for me.

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17 hours ago, prometheus59650 said:

Oh, I'll live with it because there's no choice, but it's a serious dangling string for me.

After how bad Bioware dropped the ball with ME3 and it's original conclusions, it doesn't seem to bother me that much. I do think Bioware's reputation has definitely suffered a severe blow from the ME3 travesty that the Mass Effect brand has been in some ways irreparably damaged.

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22 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

After how bad Bioware dropped the ball with ME3 and it's original conclusions, it doesn't seem to bother me that much. I do think Bioware's reputation has definitely suffered a severe blow from the ME3 travesty that the Mass Effect brand has been in some ways irreparably damaged.

I don't disagree with that. They dropped the ball with ME3's ending, in part, because EA had financial goals to meet. Now, I'm not looking to take the likes of Hudson, etc. off the hook because Hudson LIKES that esoteric stuff and he had zero problems with that ending. That said, it was fast. That game had to have a fast ending because it had a firm release window to meet. 

That's all EA.

Then, a lot of Andromeda's problems when it came to graphics came from the fact that now we know that everyone they consider their A-list development stable was put to DA4 and Anthem. ME:A was an obligatory cash grab. That it turned out as well as it did is in spite of BW and not because of it.

Honestly, if the Internet is any sort of metric, I think they are in for a rude awakening when it comes to Anthem. I'm seeing no great love for it anywhere.

Edited by prometheus59650

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EA has had a bad reputation as of recently. While I don't think ME:A was bad, I wonder how many compare it to the publisher of bad NES games known as LJN (see Angry Video Game Nerd to understand that company).

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51 minutes ago, Rusty0918 said:

EA has had a bad reputation as of recently. While I don't think ME:A was bad, I wonder how many compare it to the publisher of bad NES games known as LJN (see Angry Video Game Nerd to understand that company).

EA has a horrible reputation with gamers, and with good reason. They buy companies and bleed out what made them worth buying to begin with. They churn out games, finished or not. You would be Hard-pressed to find fans of them in the game world. Maybe their sports games, but that's it. 

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Yeah, EA I know got awarded the "golden turd" award at least twice. I do intend to get the latest "Star Wars Battlefront" though, showing that they do still churn out games that don't stink.

 

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