GustavoLeao

Discovery and Me

92 posts in this topic

I made a decision which I think I woiuld never made in my life. I will not watch STAR TREK DISCOVERY. Watching the trailer was so painfull I almost cried. Mu Star Trek is gone, lost forever, a relic. A friend told me "Gus, let it go.You Star Trek is dead. There is a universe of entertaiment out there, like the Marvel productions" And I thank my good old buddy Carlos for having told me that. I will sample the pilot on Netflix and thats painfull as JJ Trek and the trailer, I will try to not care and try to get my head on other things. My sincere repects to Gene Roddenberry, Gene Coon, Harve Bennett, Rick Berman and Michael Piller for keeping my love for Star Trek for years and years. Now its time for a new generation of fans. I just turned 47 yesterday.My time is up. I dont wanna insult anyone with this post, its just my feelings since yesterday. I will watch THE CAGE tonight. Thanks a lot guys,

Gus

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Give it a chance, Gus. You may be surprised. It may be awful. It may be good.

At least watch the pilot episode and get a feel for it. It might surprise you that this is the Star Trek that brings back what we haven't had in a while. ;)

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Posted (edited)

This is not a shock.

 

Not sure why it needs its own thread, but okay.

Edited by prometheus59650

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No thanks, The Founder, I understand. But at least I will not badmouth it. I will just keep quiet regaring Star Trek from now on..

And why it needs its own thread ? Well,its kinda my farewell to Star Trek in this board.I will keep discussing Marvel, DC and good movies, thats just it.

Gus

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Well, it's been no secret whatsoever that you've written off all modern Trek, and that's fine. I just didn't see where it'd be news to anyone so that it warranted a brand new thread.

 

(Sounds snarky, I know, but not meant to be. More...matter of fact, really)

 

Like what you like and more power to ya,

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Well, thanks. There is so much out there I love right now, from animes to Marvel movies and so forth, I can barely find time to watch all I want !

Gus

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Hey Gus, although this is a Trek board, so many other cool franchises, movies and shows are being discussed here, I hope you'll stay with us and share you enthusiasm with us about those you like! :)

Really no need for you to like DSC or even give it a chance ... nobody will think any less of you if new Star Trek in whichever form isn't your thing (at least I guess so, I can't speak for everybody :P But it would surprise me).

 

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Thanks, Sim, of course I will keeping discussing other things, like Marvel, DC, anime, comics, classic movies, you name it. LOL

Gus

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It seems to make sense to have a thread for people who aren't interested in Discovery and want to say why they aren't. Or people who want to assume that the new Star Trek is going to be bad because of 2 seconds of a promo seemed wrong to them.

I really don't have a problem with that because I do the same thing with other programs that I'm only slightly interested in. 

It makes sense to me to have two main threads. The optimistic thread where there is concern about the way the show is going but hopes it will work out. And the pessimistic thread for people who've basically burned out on Trek and just assume the new show will be a disaster. 

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17 hours ago, scenario said:

It seems to make sense to have a thread for people who aren't interested in Discovery and want to say why they aren't. Or people who want to assume that the new Star Trek is going to be bad because of 2 seconds of a promo seemed wrong to them.

I really don't have a problem with that because I do the same thing with other programs that I'm only slightly interested in. 

It makes sense to me to have two main threads. The optimistic thread where there is concern about the way the show is going but hopes it will work out. And the pessimistic thread for people who've basically burned out on Trek and just assume the new show will be a disaster. 

This. A lot of fans are struggling with Discovery, for more than one reason. Sure there are the "fans" no one really asked, such as the bigots and racists and sexists who won't watch "because the gays are ruining Star Trek", "Star Trek is now run by feminists", "a BLACK woman in charge?", but I'm not talking about those "fans". I'm talking about folks like Gus who simply feel they no longer have a "home" with Star Trek. I see reactions from THEM as well and it's NOT fair to throw them into the same category as the haters. (Which no one has done here, of course, I'm just making a general fandom statement because I've seen people getting attacked over saying that they simply can't bring themselves to be interested enough in Discovery and that every new picture or trailer only leaves them more frustrated.) Most of these folks have been fans of Star Trek for a long, long time and simply no longer see it being/representing the Trek they grew up with or want, and they DON'T find it easy to make the adjustment and/or leap of faith into thinking that Discovery will be good or interesting for them. They've been disappointed over and over again, ever since ENT came out, Nu!Trek certainly didn't help either, and now Discovery won't cut it either because it will naturally be different as well from the Trek they used to know and love. This is traumatic for many fans - it's like looking at someone you used to love and realizing that they've changed so much that you can no longer do so. This is a painful and also depressing process. These fans are often angry and bitter but some are also simply sad that, for them, an era in their lives has come to an end.

Now: I'm not interested in watching Discovery either, so, Gus is not alone. (Although my reasons are different, the result is the same for now: Not watching, no thanks, enjoy, everyone, but it's not for me.)

So... Gus, I know how you feel and what you mean. There are a lot of other fans who feel the same way you do.

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For what it's worth, Gus, we're all where you're at right now in the sense that none of us have seen the new show. Who knows? We may all hate it. I hope not, but then I've always been a bit of an optimist, which is a quality that may have been innate but was certainly encouraged by watching Star Trek and shows like it, like Doctor Who. 

But I'm going to try and look for the good in it, the stuff that works for my tastes. May turn out I have to accept this iteration of Trek isn't for me. There's a lot resting on this show. Disappointment is always a risk, but especially with a fresh take in an ongoing story that you've loved. 

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20 hours ago, GustavoLeao said:

I made a decision which I think I woiuld never made in my life. I will not watch STAR TREK DISCOVERY. Watching the trailer was so painfull I almost cried. Mu Star Trek is gone, lost forever, a relic. A friend told me "Gus, let it go.You Star Trek is dead. There is a universe of entertaiment out there, like the Marvel productions" And I thank my good old buddy Carlos for having told me that. I will sample the pilot on Netflix and thats painfull as JJ Trek and the trailer, I will try to not care and try to get my head on other things. My sincere repects to Gene Roddenberry, Gene Coon, Harve Bennett, Rick Berman and Michael Piller for keeping my love for Star Trek for years and years. Now its time for a new generation of fans. I just turned 47 yesterday.My time is up. I dont wanna insult anyone with this post, its just my feelings since yesterday. I will watch THE CAGE tonight. Thanks a lot guys,

Gus

What I'm curious about is what specifically seemed "un-Star Trek" about the trailer?  

Is ST only about Kirk, Spock, McCoy and the look/trappings of TOS, or is it more than that to you?   What was specifically 'missing' that made it so painful to watch?

I'm not trying to grill you, Gus (not trying to push your buttons at all here); just curious what seems so 'anti-ST' to you that you won't give it a chance?   Maybe it's just me, but for me the trailer felt very "Star Trek-ish" overall; there was the shining optimistic future represented in diversity and a spanking new, gleaming ship.   There were Klingons.  There was gender equality.   There was even Sarek (!).  

I'm just failing to see (or understand) what was so 'not Star Trek' about it...? 

Would you have been happier if it were more like Star Trek Continues? 

 

1 hour ago, Mr.Picard said:

Now: I'm not interested in watching Discovery either, so, Gus is not alone. (Although my reasons are different, the result is the same for now: Not watching, no thanks, enjoy, everyone, but it's not for me.)

^ In your case, I understand; you are not really a science fiction person to begin with; and your devotion to TNG is as much personal as it is anything else.  That I can relate to.  And you've tried watching other versions of ST (you've watched TOS, much of DS9, and even enjoyed ENT).   So from your perspective of fandom, I get it.

 

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49 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

^ In your case, I understand; you are not really a science fiction person to begin with; and your devotion to TNG is as much personal as it is anything else.  That I can relate to.  And you've tried watching other versions of ST (you've watched TOS, much of DS9, and even enjoyed ENT).   So from your perspective of fandom, I get it.

 

I've watched ALL of DS9. Several times. lol And all of VOY. Once and never again lol It just didn't click with me. Ironically, the only Trek show these days that still clicks with me somehow is ENT, the ONE show I hated with passion when it aired. I'm even finding TOS rewatches to be tedious now because there are just so many episodes I could totally have done without. The only TOS episode I still truly and absolutely enjoy watching is "The Cage" - because I like Pike so much. ENT I enjoy because I like Archer quite a bit. All that being said, I DO seem to need a connection to the captain in some way these days, and I don't have that with Kirk and I DEFINITELY don't have it with Sisko AT ALL or, even worse, Janeway. That being said - it's entirely possible I'll have that connection again with the captain of the Discovery even though he won't be the main focus of the show. That's why I say I might get the show on DVD at some point - but so far I feel no need to check it out. If they release another trailer that focuses on the captain of the Discovery and I feel a connection, I'll take it from there. (It's an immediate thing - I felt the connection with Archer right then as well when ENT was introduced, but I was too busy with hating on the show to pay it any attention. I don't want to make that mistake again - AND I also don't want to make the mistake of "ugh a bald dude in pajamas" again, haha. Indifference is the best course of action for me at this point.)

But thanks! It's nice to hear that someone understands. I'm REALLY trying.

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I will give it a fair shot because I enjoy the overall premise of Trek and want to see what a new crew of creators does with it.  The socio-political nuances suggested thus far are to my liking but are only one ingredient of a very complex story.  I saw the TOS premier first run in 1966 as a 20 year old adult and quickly became disillusioned with Shatner's Kirk interpretation.  (I was also up to my neck in university and work so I missed a lot of episodes back then.)  I made the mistake of not watching TNG because I found the title, "The Next Generation" so painfully derivative.  When finally goaded into watching one episode, it happened to be The Measure of a Man and I was instantly hooked.  Watched all of DS9 (taping episodes when traveling) but gave up on VOY midway through its run, mostly because Mulgrew's Janeway always seemed to be just an actor hitting their mark and delivering their lines.  Watched ENT from the git-go and thoroughly enjoyed the whole run.  Was very sad when it ended just as it was rising to true episodic excellence.  So yes, I'll give Discovery an open minded shot at entertaining me and hope it finds a following of like-minded souls.

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Posted (edited)

I dont thiink the show is "un-Star Trek" at all,Sehlat. It has high production values and good actors, thats for sure.......My current taste for entertaiment maybe be anti-Star Trek, I mean, the current version Star Trek, to be honest. But yeah, the feel of the trailer, the design, the bridge , the uniforms, its all look so JJ-verse and anti-The Cage that I was highly upset by it. I think they should set the series in the JJ-verse or in a third timeline, a brand new universe. Yep, I was expecting something in the league of Star Trek Continues or Prelude to Axanar, and was disappointed with the JJ-feel of the trailer. But I am always been  an anti-prequel and anti-reboot guy for a long time, even before ENT. And I am tired of prequels JJ-style. Thats is what I can tell you, Sehlat, I hope you understand, my friend.

Gus

Edited by GustavoLeao

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One of the things I love about this board is exemplified by this discussion.  People can have diverse opinions, for definable reasons or just gut feel, and still be friends.  I'd love to sit down and share a beer (or wine, coffee, chocolate milk, etc.) with every member of this crowd, something I cant say for other places I frequent.

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4 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

I've watched ALL of DS9. Several times. lol And all of VOY. Once and never again lol It just didn't click with me. Ironically, the only Trek show these days that still clicks with me somehow is ENT, the ONE show I hated with passion when it aired. I'm even finding TOS rewatches to be tedious now because there are just so many episodes I could totally have done without. The only TOS episode I still truly and absolutely enjoy watching is "The Cage" - because I like Pike so much. ENT I enjoy because I like Archer quite a bit. All that being said, I DO seem to need a connection to the captain in some way these days, and I don't have that with Kirk and I DEFINITELY don't have it with Sisko AT ALL or, even worse, Janeway. That being said - it's entirely possible I'll have that connection again with the captain of the Discovery even though he won't be the main focus of the show. That's why I say I might get the show on DVD at some point - but so far I feel no need to check it out. If they release another trailer that focuses on the captain of the Discovery and I feel a connection, I'll take it from there. (It's an immediate thing - I felt the connection with Archer right then as well when ENT was introduced, but I was too busy with hating on the show to pay it any attention. I don't want to make that mistake again - AND I also don't want to make the mistake of "ugh a bald dude in pajamas" again, haha. Indifference is the best course of action for me at this point.)

But thanks! It's nice to hear that someone understands. I'm REALLY trying.

My mistake; I hadn't realized you did ALL of DS9 and all of VGR too (you poor thing! LOL).

But yes, your reasons for investing in ST are different; you approach it more from a love of the characters, and not the genre or the format per se.  I very much understand that.   There are a handful of westerns I've enjoyed but I am NOT a fan of westerns as a genre.   Certain comedies are like that for me as well; I find the vast majority of comedies to be just boring and stupid (esp anything with Will Ferrell acting like a man-child).   But occasionally, one will come along that really works.

So, your love of ST is specific, that's all. 

And yes, ENT is probably the series I find myself rewatching more and more these days.  And like you, I wasn't terribly impressed on its original run either....

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Posted (edited)

14 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

This. A lot of fans are struggling with Discovery, for more than one reason. Sure there are the "fans" no one really asked, such as the bigots and racists and sexists who won't watch "because the gays are ruining Star Trek", "Star Trek is now run by feminists", "a BLACK woman in charge?", but I'm not talking about those "fans". I'm talking about folks like Gus who simply feel they no longer have a "home" with Star Trek. I see reactions from THEM as well and it's NOT fair to throw them into the same category as the haters. (Which no one has done here, of course, I'm just making a general fandom statement because I've seen people getting attacked over saying that they simply can't bring themselves to be interested enough in Discovery and that every new picture or trailer only leaves them more frustrated.) Most of these folks have been fans of Star Trek for a long, long time and simply no longer see it being/representing the Trek they grew up with or want, and they DON'T find it easy to make the adjustment and/or leap of faith into thinking that Discovery will be good or interesting for them. They've been disappointed over and over again, ever since ENT came out, Nu!Trek certainly didn't help either, and now Discovery won't cut it either because it will naturally be different as well from the Trek they used to know and love. This is traumatic for many fans - it's like looking at someone you used to love and realizing that they've changed so much that you can no longer do so. This is a painful and also depressing process. These fans are often angry and bitter but some are also simply sad that, for them, an era in their lives has come to an end.

Thank you for not lumping genuine critics of the show with people that want to fight some type of culture war. I've noticed people (outside of this forum) have lumped the critics with either those people or unreasonable people that want Discovery to look exactly like "The Cage" .... but in HD or something.

For me - it might be too early to write off this show. The trailer was short, barely showed anything and isn't an accurate reflection of what the show will be. To me this is more of a teaser. But I definitely agree this is not the old Star Trek and I think those fans (like me) should just accept that.

Edited by The Founder

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18 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

My mistake; I hadn't realized you did ALL of DS9 and all of VGR too (you poor thing! LOL).

But yes, your reasons for investing in ST are different; you approach it more from a love of the characters, and not the genre or the format per se.  I very much understand that.   There are a handful of westerns I've enjoyed but I am NOT a fan of westerns as a genre.   Certain comedies are like that for me as well; I find the vast majority of comedies to be just boring and stupid (esp anything with Will Ferrell acting like a man-child).   But occasionally, one will come along that really works.

So, your love of ST is specific, that's all. 

And yes, ENT is probably the series I find myself rewatching more and more these days.  And like you, I wasn't terribly impressed on its original run either....

It definitely has to do with me not being interested in sci-fi as a genre in itself - it has to be mixed with another genre in order to become interesting to me. I was never raised with science fiction, no one cared about it, no one gave me anything sci-fi to deal with. The closest thing I had was my favorite book, The Neverending Story, but that's more fantasy than sci-fi - THAT was the world I escaped into. I wanted a Luck Dragon, not a starship, I wanted to have adventures with Atreyu, not aliens. I prefered a world in my MIND, not one in some distant future. If you're not raised with sci-fi and if you ALSO lack a general understanding of physics and astronomy, getting into it is difficult somehow. Of course I wanted to be an astronaut when I was a kid and my Playmobil space station was my favorite toy, but that was more because of the cool space suits and the helmets than aliens. (The space station didn't even come with aliens, lol.) Anyways. I had no BASIS to fall in love with Star Trek or sci-fi as a genre, and I still don't - for me it therefore relies entirely on characters and stories, you're quite correct. They could set TNG on a submarine and I'd still watch it because JEAN-LUC. Sure it would be cool to watch the stars go by in Ten Forward, but ONLY if Jean-Luc was there, too. Otherwise, sure, a short trip but then please bring me back to Earth and let me continue to watch Dallas. lol

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

It definitely has to do with me not being interested in sci-fi as a genre in itself - it has to be mixed with another genre in order to become interesting to me. I was never raised with science fiction, no one cared about it, no one gave me anything sci-fi to deal with. The closest thing I had was my favorite book, The Neverending Story, but that's more fantasy than sci-fi - THAT was the world I escaped into. I wanted a Luck Dragon, not a starship, I wanted to have adventures with Atreyu, not aliens. I prefered a world in my MIND, not one in some distant future. If you're not raised with sci-fi and if you ALSO lack a general understanding of physics and astronomy, getting into it is difficult somehow. Of course I wanted to be an astronaut when I was a kid and my Playmobil space station was my favorite toy, but that was more because of the cool space suits and the helmets than aliens. (The space station didn't even come with aliens, lol.) Anyways. I had no BASIS to fall in love with Star Trek or sci-fi as a genre, and I still don't - for me it therefore relies entirely on characters and stories, you're quite correct. They could set TNG on a submarine and I'd still watch it because JEAN-LUC. Sure it would be cool to watch the stars go by in Ten Forward, but ONLY if Jean-Luc was there, too. Otherwise, sure, a short trip but then please bring me back to Earth and let me continue to watch Dallas. lol

... or the new rebooted Dynasty. :laugh:

And yes, I understand that POV, because I know a lot of people who don't like science fiction at all (many in my own family) who like one Star Trek show or movie because it spoke to them in a unique way, or had one or two very memorable characters.  Good, interesting characters are often the hooks that get non-scifi fans into the genre (or more specifically, Star Trek).  

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11 hours ago, The Founder said:

Thank you for not lumping genuine critics of the show with people that want to fight some type of culture war. I've noticed people (outside of this forum) have lumped the critics with either those people or unreasonable people that want Discovery to look exactly like "The Cage" .... but in HD or something.

For me - it might be too early to write off this show. The trailer was short, barely showed anything and isn't an accurate reflection of what the show will be. To me this is more of a teaser. But I definitely agree this is not the old Star Trek and I think those fans (like me) should just accept that.

Oops I forgot I wanted to quote this, too. Bad me. Anyways - you are quite welcome! I have observed the same behavior in the fandom. The rabid haters are as bad as the rabid lovers who will tear EVERYONE apart who DARES voice even the SLIGHTEST "but...". I get it that they're fed up with all the negativity (I am too, at least to a certain degree), but there is NO need to attack people who simply state that they see no reason to like what they're seeing so far. There's a whopping big difference between a hater and someone who is simply not seeing any reason to fall in love with Discovery just yet. (Or ever.)

3 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

... or the new rebooted Dynasty. :laugh:

And yes, I understand that POV, because I know a lot of people who don't like science fiction at all (many in my own family) who like one Star Trek show or movie because it spoke to them in a unique way, or had one or two very memorable characters.  Good, interesting characters are often the hooks that get non-scifi fans into the genre (or more specifically, Star Trek).  

Or the new rebooted Dynasty! I'm SO down for that show! I wish I knew more people who are enthusiastic about Dallas and Dynasty - I always shout into a void when I tell my Trekkie friends about these shows. :laugh:

It was the characters who spoke to me when I watched TNG for the first time - it WAS also the plot of the episode, yes, but if I hadn't felt a connection with most of the characters I doubt the episode would have worked on me. The plot is cool, sure, but without the characters... nah. I loved how everyone re-lived stuff and I also loved how they solved the mystery with the three's and all, but then, the characters had to work together for this, and that sense of family that came from them, THAT was what hooked me and made me want to watch the next episode, not the starship or space or whatnot, meh. lol I think this is why I have such a thing for soap operas, now THOSE focus on CHARACTERS in an almost obnoxious way, haha

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1 hour ago, prometheus59650 said:

Since this seems to be where the 'dislike DSC stuff is going, I'll place this here, but we're not talking 'This just isn't my thing' dislike. We're talking, literally, "DSC is white genocide" nonsense.

 

Rascism here, there, and everywhere. (Some comments NSFW)

Leaving the whole debate of racism aside for a moment... even if you feel white males are underrepresented, it strikes me as absurd drawing this conclusion from this short trailer.

The main character is a black female, okay, but apart from her, we see hardly any other characters -- two aliens and an Asian female captain we even know won't be the Discovery's captain... that leaves huge room for other white male characters, doesn't it? 

I'm pretty sure there will be white males in the show too, so this complaining is extra absurd.

(Just for the record, personally I care more if a character is well written than for his or her skin color.)

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1 hour ago, prometheus59650 said:

Since this seems to be where the 'dislike DSC stuff is going, I'll place this here, but we're not talking 'This just isn't my thing' dislike. We're talking, literally, "DSC is white genocide" nonsense.

 

Rascism here, there, and everywhere. (Some comments NSFW)

Without getting too much into KM territory here (let's be careful, I'd hate to be forced to move this topic there)... these are exactly the kinds of fans whose existence a lot of folks have always tried to deny or play down because they never were the target (I was told countless times that "ah maybe there are a handful of bigots in the Trek fandom but DON'T WORRY WE ARE ALL NIIICE, REAAAALLY" - nope, there are a LOT of bigots and racists and whatnot). I'm both glad and horrified at the same time that they're finally showing their ugly faces to EVERYONE - showing their faces means exposing them and their views.

I'm particularly fond of the "I love Janeway but please don't ruin this with political correctness" thing in one of the comments. Love the line of "I have nothing against [insert group], I like [people from group]/I have [people from group] friends but please don't force me to look at them all the time" arguments. ("Love" as in "please go away".)

Although I do feel the need to point out that some of these "fans" might also simply be trolls who have never watched a single Star Trek episode. A lot of these people surface on Twitter whenever there's something they perceive as "controversial" or "too politically correct". I see it all the time with Sir Patrick - whenever he says something "controversial", people who know literally nothing about him other than the fact that he was in Star Trek or X Men show up and voice their "opinions" and draw others to the table as well. It's like a bunch of rabid dogs.

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These are just people that literally can't handle the reality that the world is more 'not white' than white, so any reminder of that fact is a personal attack.

Never mind that Star Trek, for 50 years, has been all about social justice. That's really the whole point.

1 minute ago, Mr.Picard said:

- nope, there are a LOT of bigots and racists and whatnot). I'm both glad and horrified at the same time that they're finally showing their ugly faces to EVERYONE - showing their faces means exposing them and their views.

There are A LOT of 'fans' who are not fans of any of the social aspects of the show, but rather seem to love the gunboat diplomacy and the Americentric notion, grafted onto the vehicle of "The Federation," that our way is the right way, best way, and everyone else wants to be like us.

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