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GustavoLeao

MATRIX- Geeee whiz, Another Prequel!

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We need this about as much as we need a new strain of typhus.

Granted, I'm probably one of 5 people on the planet (excluding the Wachowskis themselves) who actually liked "Cloud Atlas", but the Matrix movies have come and gone.  Their heat is officially extinguished.  

Even if Zak Penn and a new creative team move the franchise (and yes, it was once a franchise) away from the last two Matrix sequels, I just don't see any need for this at all.   You're basically telling a story about the guy who will one day find and train an even more important guy.   

Lotsa luck to them (and I admire their moxie in reviving a story no one seems to care about), but I'll save my money for a real movie.   One that doesn't include a telegraphed ending that I already saw 18 years ago...

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1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:

We need this about as much as we need a new strain of typhus.

Granted, I'm probably one of 5 people on the planet (excluding the Wachowskis themselves) who actually liked "Cloud Atlas", but the Matrix movies have come and gone.  Their heat is officially extinguished.  

Even if Zak Penn and a new creative team move the franchise (and yes, it was once a franchise) away from the last two Matrix sequels, I just don't see any need for this at all.   You're basically telling a story about the guy who will one day find and train an even more important guy.   

Lotsa luck to them (and I admire their moxie in reviving a story no one seems to care about), but I'll save my money for a real movie.   One that doesn't include a telegraphed ending that I already saw 18 years ago...

All of this here.

There's no reason to care.

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I can think of no franchise less needing of a reboot. 

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Posted (edited)

Indeed, let sleeping dogs lie. At least, if they are going to revive the franchise, move the story forward.  

Edited by Locutus

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I'm genuinely curious; is there anyone here that is even remotely interested in this idea?  Speaking for myself, I faded off of the Matrix franchise somewhere between the second and third movies... 

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34 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I'm genuinely curious; is there anyone here that is even remotely interested in this idea?  Speaking for myself, I faded off of the Matrix franchise somewhere between the second and third movies... 

Ditto. 

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This is just one of those "franchises" that never should've been a franchise in my opinion.  That first movie is so great, but they never needed to do more.  And the thing is, even though they did do more and the sequels weren't the best received...I honestly don't mind them as sequels.  But I have no interest in returning to the Matrix unless it is popping in a blu-ray of the first film.  Sort of a perfect film for when it came out. No need to revisit it or expand it or reboot it or update it.  It is a perfect little cyberpunk time capsule from the late 90s.  Leave it there.  Not everything needs to be touched on and revamped over and over.  But it if it is a sci-fi or horror property, it gets no respect and is usually tampered with forever and always.  That can't be seen as true classics that should remain untouched if they aren't a certain kind of film.

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I haven't heard from even ONE person who likes the idea of this. The first movie is a masterpiece. Everything else... nah, thanks.

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18 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

I haven't heard from even ONE person who likes the idea of this. The first movie is a masterpiece. Everything else... nah, thanks.

I do give the first movie credit; it was compelling, genuine science fiction during an era (the mid-to-late '90s) when sci-fi/action movies were all about big THX 'boom' with people outrunning explosions.   But I never really thought The Matrix was terribly original.  Having already seen "Blade Runner" and "Ghost in the Shell" (not to mention a hundred or so '70s dystopia & martial arts-exploitation movies), I saw The Matrix as a nice addition to the pack rather than the big groundbreaker everyone said it was.   At any rate, it didn't matter; it was a nice modern rejiggering of familiar elements (to me, anyway) and it was imaginatively presented.

Then the sequel came, and Matrix's status as a beautiful fluke was assured.

 

I really wish they'd stopped at one.

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5 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I do give the first movie credit; it was compelling, genuine science fiction during an era (the mid-to-late '90s) when sci-fi/action movies were all about big THX 'boom' with people outrunning explosions.   But I never really thought The Matrix was terribly original.  Having already seen "Blade Runner" and "Ghost in the Shell" (not to mention a hundred or so '70s dystopia & martial arts-exploitation movies), I saw The Matrix as a nice addition to the pack rather than the big groundbreaker everyone said it was.   At any rate, it didn't matter; it was a nice modern rejiggering of familiar elements (to me, anyway) and it was imaginatively presented.

Then the sequel came, and Matrix's status as a beautiful fluke was assured.

 

I really wish they'd stopped at one.

It was THE movie for us back in the late 90s, I guess me being a teenager played into things as well (I was 16 when it was released), we all loved it because Keanu Reeves was so cool and I had a crush on Trinity that I told no one about (haha) and Agent Smith was another crush of mine and I dunno, it was just REALLY REALLY COOL. Some of us ran around in black outfits like Neo's, with the sunglasses and all. It created a STYLE, almost. Until the sequels came and ruined everything, that is.

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It has to be an age thing, but the Matrix was a huge stylistic leap in filmmaking. I don't even see it as very similar to Blade Runner at all. It was a watershed film, and lead to tons of mimicry after its release. And its a great entertainment on top of all its stylitstic leaps. 

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1 minute ago, kenman said:

It has to be an age thing, but the Matrix was a huge stylistic leap in filmmaking. I don't even see it as very similar to Blade Runner at all. It was a watershed film, and lead to tons of mimicry after its release. And its a great entertainment on top of all its stylitstic leaps. 

Exactly the way I see it, too.

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14 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I'm genuinely curious; is there anyone here that is even remotely interested in this idea?  Speaking for myself, I faded off of the Matrix franchise somewhere between the second and third movies... 

The Matrix - the original - was everything everyone says it was  - a trendsetter, a watershed moment, a trailblazer. it seemed to come out of nowhere, fully formed. It was cool, it was new and exciting rather than the pedestrian plod of near-contemporary films (I'm looking at you, Phantom Menace). It was also one of the few SF films Mrs Bland loved, and she couldn't wait for the sequel.

And sadly, for us, that's where the whole thing went off the boil. you can't ever hope to exactly recapture the moment a story becomes a phenomenon, but you absolutely can expand on it in unexpected directions. I call this Art of Giving People Something They Didn't Know They Wanted.

The second Matrix film fell victim to its own PR. Where the first film seemed hungry to say something, the second and third films became so rapidly wrapped up in their own mythology, I think they scared off the more casual audience.  They were convoluted and self-revering rather than absolute must-sees. Mrs Bland didn't even bother with the third film after the disappointment of the second. i did, but I didn't know what the hell was going on.

The first film had all sorts of pseudo-spiritual guff, but it also had an intensity, a clarity and characters that propelled you through the whole adventure. Films 2 and 3 seem more about the visuals, rather than cool visuals in the service of the story and characters - what the hell was that rave sequence in the second film about? What dramatic service did it fulfill? The third film was even further removed from anything rooted in understandable.

I have absolutely no desire to see a prequel whatsoever, and in fact, would actively avoid unless the word came back that it was as exceptional as the original.

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53 minutes ago, kenman said:

It has to be an age thing, but the Matrix was a huge stylistic leap in filmmaking. I don't even see it as very similar to Blade Runner at all. It was a watershed film, and lead to tons of mimicry after its release. And its a great entertainment on top of all its stylitstic leaps. 

If you'd seen 1995's "Ghost in the Shell" or even Reeves' own "Johnny Mnemonic" (or even "Max Headroom")?  "The Matrix" (stylistically) was practically a remake.   And GITS borrowed a lot from Blade Runner, etc.

I see it more as a progression of cyberpunk rather than a watershed event. 

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I've seen Max Headroom, and I really don't see them in the same ballpark. And I don't think you are quite grasping what watershed means.  Ghost in the Shell is an anime seen by a smaller number of fans...The Matrix was a huge box office and critical hit in the mainstream. A watershed film is one that may not be the first of it's kind, but it is the one that gains the biggest notoriety. Jaws wasn't the first movie of it's kind...Hitchcock had made that kind of a film before, but Jaws was a big hit in it's day and could be considered a watershed moment in film.  I know you wouldn't ever deny the fact that Star Wars was a watershed film, but does that status get diminished because Flash Gordon had gone there before?  Every watershed film has influences, but that doesn't mean they don't somehow break new ground in their own way, and capture the public in a big way. 

That is why the Matrix is definitively a watershed film.  It was new in many ways, it culled from different influences, but you can't convince me that Ghost in the Shell was ever as popular or as well known in the 90s as the Matrix became. And Maybe GITS did borrow from Blade Runner, which borrowed from Metropolis and so on...but the Matrix doesn't, in the end, remotely resemble Blade Runner in my eyes. 

So maybe to you, it didn't seem too fresh because you had been watching a cartoon that had some stylistic similarities, but for most of the public, is a big step forward.  For me and people of my age, it was a huge film because of how things changed before and after in filmmaking. You can see a clear line before the Matrix, in which there are a handful of films that may have some early progressions of the kind of things that would become so present in the Matrix itself, and then after the Matrix, in which you had a ton of films copying its style and presentation and use of visual effects. 

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I might be interested in a future one-off where they try to keep the peace in the face of something, but why should I care about a Morpheus story or anything that came before Neo, simply because, if the trilogy had any message at all it's, Neo was the whole point.

 

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2 hours ago, kenman said:

I've seen Max Headroom, and I really don't see them in the same ballpark. And I don't think you are quite grasping what watershed means.  Ghost in the Shell is an anime seen by a smaller number of fans...The Matrix was a huge box office and critical hit in the mainstream. A watershed film is one that may not be the first of it's kind, but it is the one that gains the biggest notoriety. Jaws wasn't the first movie of it's kind...Hitchcock had made that kind of a film before, but Jaws was a big hit in it's day and could be considered a watershed moment in film.  I know you wouldn't ever deny the fact that Star Wars was a watershed film, but does that status get diminished because Flash Gordon had gone there before?  Every watershed film has influences, but that doesn't mean they don't somehow break new ground in their own way, and capture the public in a big way. 

That is why the Matrix is definitively a watershed film.  It was new in many ways, it culled from different influences, but you can't convince me that Ghost in the Shell was ever as popular or as well known in the 90s as the Matrix became. And Maybe GITS did borrow from Blade Runner, which borrowed from Metropolis and so on...but the Matrix doesn't, in the end, remotely resemble Blade Runner in my eyes. 

So maybe to you, it didn't seem too fresh because you had been watching a cartoon that had some stylistic similarities, but for most of the public, is a big step forward.  For me and people of my age, it was a huge film because of how things changed before and after in filmmaking. You can see a clear line before the Matrix, in which there are a handful of films that may have some early progressions of the kind of things that would become so present in the Matrix itself, and then after the Matrix, in which you had a ton of films copying its style and presentation and use of visual effects. 

Well, we can split the difference then; it was new to some and a stylistic rejiggering of elements to others. ;)

I'm not saying I didn't enjoy it, mind you; I did, very much.   I just don't see being as innovative as its credited with being, that's all.   But as you say, that's largely a matter of perception, personal history & tastes. 

 

As for my understanding of 'watershed'?  I take it to mean a turning point, or a landmark, etc.

Matrix was, to me, a clever, stylized salad of many interesting sources but it's not exactly like it came out of nowhere, per se.   It very much reflects an evolution (and the Wachowskis are HUGE anime fans; I'm not, but my wife is, and I learned much of what I know from her influences).

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