Justin Snead

Thread for helping us cope with how different Discovery will be

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"DS9 is the only show that comes close to what today's audience might want, but it just paved the way for serialized television, it's by no means as sophisticated as The Walking Dead or other heavily serialized shows."

TWD is more sophisticated (ergo smarter and more well thought out) than DS9? If you believe that, well fine. You just ruined your long rant. DS9 was way more thought out than anything in TWD past season one. I will give it's first season some credit. Granted, I stopped watching. But still, DS9 is way smarter than a survival zombie show with rednecks in it. Come on. Ha. Saw all 7 seasons and it was a lot smarter, unless you count the final episode arc, which was comparable to Fear of the Walking Dead's pilot.

It's not so much that we want our old TNG back. It's that DSC claims to be another prequel, and it could easily be set farther afield, and should be. Why go backward to somewhere we've been? The departure in costumes, ship design looking very TNG, shoehorning in Sarek and Mudd, and whatnot, is just confusing. It might have been better had they made it the anthology Fuller intended, but recanted. If the Shinzou was from 2390 it would make sense. It's a time ship or something. Great. If they did that, sure.

I am not saying reinvent VGR era stuff and go from there, but rather, have them stop calling it a prequel. It's a reboot. Cheers. Ha.

I understand you can't go back to cheesy sets, even from 1990, where they would look like someone used black tape on doors, and kit bashed models from other stories, but it was charming then. DS9 was better at hiding the flaws. It also looked 'more sophisticated' than DSC looks now.

DS9 did not pave the way for serial shows. Old serials in the 1940s did that. It's been around a very long time. I'd say that by 1993, something called reality TV being serial, like 90210 and Real World and the first season of Survivor, were a bit ahead of DS9 in making serials mainstream. Survivor actually is clean Battle Royale, in a way, and TWD turned it back into a literal survivor type show.

Edited by Chimera82405

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12 minutes ago, Chimera82405 said:

"DS9 is the only show that comes close to what today's audience might want, but it just paved the way for serialized television, it's by no means as sophisticated as The Walking Dead or other heavily serialized shows."

TWD is more sophisticated (ergo smarter and more well thought out) than DS9? If you believe that, well fine. You just ruined your long rant. DS9 was way more thought out than anything in TWD past season one. I will give it's first season some credit. Granted, I stopped watching. But still, DS9 is way smarter than a survival zombie show with rednecks in it. Come on. Ha. Saw all 7 seasons and it was a lot smarter, unless you count the final episode arc, which was comparable to Fear of the Walking Dead's pilot. 

Let's proceed in a slightly more calm manner and drop the personal attack tone, shall we? 

You misinterpreted my "ruined long rant". I meant that TWD is more sophisticated than DS9 in terms of serialization, not in terms of content. TWD is basically one long episode with only a few breaks while DS9's episodes are usually still somewhat self-contained episodes unless it's a two- or three-part episode.

(And yes, purely content-wise speaking? I would indeed watch TWD over DS9 any day. Because I happen to not be into DS9 at all.)

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Speaking of serialization - one of the best efforts to this was "Babylon 5" - which DS9 tried to emulate later on (yes I know I'm going to be slaughtered for saying that). JMS had a lot of things already well thought out for the entire series, and while he had to make adjustments, things really worked out. I have no problem with serialization, since most shows do it. But I hope they know WHAT they're doing - unlike "Lost" in which they couldn't make up their minds on some things.

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On 8/6/2017 at 11:27 AM, Chimera82405 said:

But still, DS9 is way smarter than a survival zombie show with rednecks in it.

^
Okay, I no longer watch TWD, but when I did?  I can tell you it was a lot more than this.   Not to mention that’s a pretty disparaging view of the show’s southern characters (and they’re no longer in the south, last I watched).  Though I agree that DS9 is not inferior to TWD, but I wouldn’t say one show is ‘smarter’ than the other nor would I say that a show with southern characters is automatically less intelligent (half of my wife’s family is from Texas, and many of them are teachers... just sayin’).

And FYI, Space operas don’t automatically corner the market on intelligent writing...;)

On 8/6/2017 at 11:48 AM, Mr.Picard said:

(And yes, purely content-wise speaking? I would indeed watch TWD over DS9 any day. Because I happen to not be into DS9 at all.)

^
Even as a DS9 fan, I totally understand this; TWD was (for me) a very satisfying ride till I gave up on it.   The reasons I split from it aren’t too dissimilar from why I ‘broke up’ with ENT, come to think of it.   Who knows?  Maybe someday I’ll get back into TWD...

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On 8/6/2017 at 1:27 PM, Chimera82405 said:

It's not so much that we want our old TNG back. It's that DSC claims to be another prequel, and it could easily be set farther afield, and should be. Why go backward to somewhere we've been? The departure in costumes, ship design looking very TNG, shoehorning in Sarek and Mudd, and whatnot, is just confusing. It might have been better had they made it the anthology Fuller intended, but recanted. If the Shinzou was from 2390 it would make sense. It's a time ship or something. Great. If they did that, sure.

Well - just because it's a prequel doesn't mean it's going to automatically stink. Heck, "Rogue One" is a prequel and there are many who think it's second only to "The Empire Strikes Back."

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On 8/6/2017 at 11:48 AM, Mr.Picard said:

Let's proceed in a slightly more calm manner and drop the personal attack tone, shall we? 

You misinterpreted my "ruined long rant". I meant that TWD is more sophisticated than DS9 in terms of serialization, not in terms of content. TWD is basically one long episode with only a few breaks while DS9's episodes are usually still somewhat self-contained episodes unless it's a two- or three-part episode.

(And yes, purely content-wise speaking? I would indeed watch TWD over DS9 any day. Because I happen to not be into DS9 at all.)

Long rant quote not directed at any one in particular. Sorry if I offended or triggered y'all. Sophisticated as in convoluted, okay, it probably is more so than on DS9.

Some of my closet relatives are TWD fans and do not regard Star Trek as anything beyond a silly show with aliens, but somehow zombies are better.

I have only some knowledge of TWD and cannot comment on how "sophisticated" it later became, having only seen the 'redneck episodes' of season one or so. I do not think of it as a pejorative, as some of my kin are probably considered such. Well, suburban types, not reallty backwoods. More like the 'red scarves' type than the red because of sunburn type, although out here is is pretty hot a lot, so I happen to have some sunburn on my neck right now. Ha. I was not at all implying anything, just the stereotype of the shows that TWD borrows from, about country folks and survivalists.

In my opinion, give DS9 a chance, if you haven't seen it, as even though the first couple of seasons are kind of clunky 'and convoluted' they get better with age.

Apparently TWD got worse with age in some ways.

Sophisticated can also mean convoluted or highly technical. I suppose maybe it got more highly convoluted over time, and eclipses DS9, not for smarts, but for that.

Reality TV was already doing that over a decade before TWD. The late George Romero was doing that with his Living Dead movies 30 years before. Someone also commented on B5, also more convoluted, and more interesting at times than DS9. They came out at the same time.

Also serial story telling has been around since dime novellas in the Old West, and Penny Dreadfuls, and Romance, and Adventures, and all that, long ago. TV did not invent it. Radio 30 years before did not either. Radio perfected the serial show and coined such things as 'stay tuned next week for the next thrilling conclusion'. Serial movies were the shows of the 1930s  with shows like Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, Lone Ranger, Superman and Batman and the Spirit, among others.

Technically, an actual zombie invasion would be over in 40 weeks. Everyone who was going to die would be dead. Everyone walking corpses would be rotting. They would be gone. All of the food would go bad, except in cans. Those who caught diseases from bad food would be dead, and not be zombies. The plague would end because nobody else alive would be infected, as those left over would be immune. Convoluted ending.

Edited for clarity.

Edited by Chimera82405

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