prometheus59650

Should Spock ever be CGI Resurrected?

22 posts in this topic

This whole idea sounds absolutely... TERRIBLE. Sorry. But it sounds terrible. To me, at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cannot imagine a scenario where this would even be necessary, much less work.

There's a difference between "can" and "should."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they did another Trials and Tribble-ations and needed a few seconds here or there i wouldn't mind it. But any kind of complete scenes. No way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/3/2017 at 10:19 PM, prometheus59650 said:

Adam Nimoy has an answer.

 

Mine is: NO!

^
Mine as well.

Especially when we have another actor who is perfectly capable of playing the character as well.   It is a mockery of Nimoy and an unfair dismissal of Quinto's own talents.  There is no good that comes out of this idea...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are so many capable actors out there that need work, and with a universe as vast and diverse as Trek...must we just keep treading to the same characters over and over and over again?  I don't need my nostalgia meter ticked every time I revisit a franchise.  I didn't care that I saw Tarkin again, and his purpose in the film seemed kinda silly in the end. Easily worked around without that character (Vader too for that matter).  I just don't like the idea of deceased actors being resurrected by CG while we could explore new characters helmed by new actors.  But people do love to have their childhoods revived in entertainment these days.  Nostalgia is fine, but I think lately it has become ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, kenman said:

There are so many capable actors out there that need work, and with a universe as vast and diverse as Trek...must we just keep treading to the same characters over and over and over again?  I don't need my nostalgia meter ticked every time I revisit a franchise.  I didn't care that I saw Tarkin again, and his purpose in the film seemed kinda silly in the end. Easily worked around without that character (Vader too for that matter).  I just don't like the idea of deceased actors being resurrected by CG while we could explore new characters helmed by new actors.  But people do love to have their childhoods revived in entertainment these days.  Nostalgia is fine, but I think lately it has become ridiculous.

For the most part I agree with this. I do think there are a few very limited times it might be useful. Recreating deleted scenes. Like if they found one of the missing Doctor Who episodes but it had 20 seconds of the show missing. I wouldn't mind using CGI to recreate it. Or if there was a time travel episode like the Trials and Tribble-ation and you wanted to create a short new scene. I would hate creating a whole new TOS episode with CGI characters. I would never buy that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, scenario said:

For the most part I agree with this. I do think there are a few very limited times it might be useful. Recreating deleted scenes. Like if they found one of the missing Doctor Who episodes but it had 20 seconds of the show missing. I wouldn't mind using CGI to recreate it. Or if there was a time travel episode like the Trials and Tribble-ation and you wanted to create a short new scene. I would hate creating a whole new TOS episode with CGI characters. I would never buy that. 

Little things here and there? Sure. But if you are making all new content and just recreate the past with dead actors? Just seems callous and silly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, kenman said:

Little things here and there? Sure. But if you are making all new content and just recreate the past with dead actors? Just seems callous and silly.

There were Science Fiction short stories from the 1950's about all of the actors and musicians going out of business because the computers got so good at recreating dead actors. Studios preferred them. Less problems. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm with Prometheus on this, NO!!!!!!!!!!, it would be disrespectful to Nimoy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/6/2017 at 9:58 PM, kenman said:

Little things here and there? Sure. But if you are making all new content and just recreate the past with dead actors? Just seems callous and silly.

This. If someone NEEDED him there for a second or two, I can't imagine why, but, okay. That's not something like trying to create a new TOS film or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I'm not so sure I have a problem with this.  I certainly would have no problem with new animated stories using the TOS characters or likenesses.  I certainly don't find comics to be insensitive and those recreate likenesses remarkably well sometimes.  If CGI animation happens to capture their likenesses in photo-realistic ways, well then more power to them.  There is perhaps such a thing as "too soon," like with Nimoy and Yelchin perhaps, but someday ... it can be done right.

Edited by Locutus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

This. If someone NEEDED him there for a second or two, I can't imagine why, but, okay. That's not something like trying to create a new TOS film or something.

I would be okay if it were a "Trials & Tribble-ations" thing; where Nimoy's Spock is in the background, or walking by in a corridor.  But for anything more than that?  No.  I don't like the idea of a 'Synth-Spock' with a voice double doing the dialogue; Peter Cushing's been dead for 23 yrs, so it's not quite as creepy, but Nimoy's passing is too fresh in my memory, and the memory of many other fans who adored him.

Not cool...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I would be okay if it were a "Trials & Tribble-ations" thing; where Nimoy's Spock is in the background, or walking by in a corridor.  But for anything more than that?  No.  I don't like the idea of a 'Synth-Spock' with a voice double doing the dialogue; Peter Cushing's been dead for 23 yrs, so it's not quite as creepy, but Nimoy's passing is too fresh in my memory, and the memory of many other fans who adored him.

Not cool...

And, to be blunt, I have no emotional attachment to Peter Cushing, whereas I can't watch Spock die in TWOK to this day without getting misty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

And, to be blunt, I have no emotional attachment to Peter Cushing, whereas I can't watch Spock die in TWOK to this day without getting misty.

You're not alone... hell, I was playing Horner's soundtrack in my car the other day and just the music from the death scene still gets to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

I would be okay if it were a "Trials & Tribble-ations" thing; where Nimoy's Spock is in the background, or walking by in a corridor.  But for anything more than that?  No.  I don't like the idea of a 'Synth-Spock' with a voice double doing the dialogue; Peter Cushing's been dead for 23 yrs, so it's not quite as creepy, but Nimoy's passing is too fresh in my memory, and the memory of many other fans who adored him.

Not cool...

^ This.

In this context, another exception comes to my mind: How cool would it be, if there was a TAS recreation from scratch. Keep the sound and language track, but create an entirely new animation. In such a case, I'd consider a visual recreation of Spock perfectly respectful towards Nimoy. He only voice acted in TAS anyway, which would remain intact.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Sim said:

^ This.

In this context, another exception comes to my mind: How cool would it be, if there was a TAS recreation from scratch. Keep the sound and language track, but create an entirely new animation. In such a case, I'd consider a visual recreation of Spock perfectly respectful towards Nimoy. He only voice acted in TAS anyway, which would remain intact.

 

Well, you know I've personally been advocating for a full redux of TAS' animation anyway, so yeah; I'm okay with this idea as well.  And it wouldn't be a perfectly lifelike recreation for TAS anyway; just something better than what was possible with the limited toolbox of 1973 Filmation animated technology.  TAS is a missed opportunity in that it finally had the freedom of animation but it was hampered by time and other constraints, resulting in a final look that wasn't able to fully utilize the animated format in a way that could've really made ST soar as a cartoon series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a storm in a tea-cup.

A TAS re-creation is a different thing altogether - it would still essentially be animated - Vie, myself and others have been advocating that for years. That's a good idea.

But a Tarkinesque recreation of Nimoy with a voice actor mimicking him is a whole other level. No, thanks. I don't have enough faith in Viacom's parameters of good taste to believe this would be done in any deeply honorable way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least doing it for TAS would still be using the original cast's voice acting, just with a more advanced visual presentation. That really is a different beast than someone mimicking their voices with some dead-eyed uncanny valley computer generated monstrosity trying to use my nostalgia for a quick buck. I may not have a huge attachment to Cushing as Tarkin, but I still think the man didn't need to be resurrected by a computer to excite fans who love to see the things they recognize. I don't care how long it's been since he passed, I still saw it as a bit creepy and weird that they felt that was an important part of the story.  And while the effects used to recreate Tarkin looked mostly impressive, it still had something off about it, that element where you can just see it isn't normal.  I would've rather they worked around it.  Or just not had him speak and maybe show the CG model in the background briefly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kenman said:

At least doing it for TAS would still be using the original cast's voice acting, just with a more advanced visual presentation. That really is a different beast than someone mimicking their voices with some dead-eyed uncanny valley computer generated monstrosity trying to use my nostalgia for a quick buck. I may not have a huge attachment to Cushing as Tarkin, but I still think the man didn't need to be resurrected by a computer to excite fans who love to see the things they recognize. I don't care how long it's been since he passed, I still saw it as a bit creepy and weird that they felt that was an important part of the story.  And while the effects used to recreate Tarkin looked mostly impressive, it still had something off about it, that element where you can just see it isn't normal.  I would've rather they worked around it.  Or just not had him speak and maybe show the CG model in the background briefly. 

It's also interesting that they DIDN'T do a CGI rendering of General Dodonna at the Rebel base; they just used a lookalike actor; as they did with Mon Mothma (using the unseen actress who played her in ROTS deleted scenes).

Using a CGI Peter Cushing does seem a bit arbitrary, in hindsight. 

But Leonard Nimoy's Spock is just too identifiable and too beloved, IMO.  If they were to use the Spock character in any future incarnation for anything beyond a walk-on shot?  I'd use Zachary Quinto, or recast.   Using a CGI Nimoy and a voice-alike actor is just too distasteful IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Setting aside the question of how tasteful it would be, why would we need more Nimoy content at this point? He had been in 8 movies and there was hardly anything more for him to add to the role. Even if you were absolutely set on having him come back in CGI form, what would they have him say or do that the real Nimoy hasn't already said or done as Spock? We got plenty of closure on that character so I don't see why this would be necessary. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Hammer said:

Setting aside the question of how tasteful it would be, why would we need more Nimoy content at this point? He had been in 8 movies and there was hardly anything more for him to add to the role. Even if you were absolutely set on having him come back in CGI form, what would they have him say or do that the real Nimoy hasn't already said or done as Spock? We got plenty of closure on that character so I don't see why this would be necessary. 

^
Also a good point.  The character (Nimoy's incarnation) already had a beautiful sendofff in ST09, IMO.  He was there to 'give his blessing' (so to speak) to the new crew and send them on their way.  His appearance in STID felt more like a 'life line' call in "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?"  Redundant, and a bit of a disservice to the new cast; it served no point other than to tell them that Khan was a bad guy.   I'm saddened this was Nimoy's last live action turn as the character, because it was redundant and unnecessary.  His ST09 role was much more critical to the story; he was a critical part of the action.  

That said? I thought seeing his obituary in STB was short and sweet; a nice tribute to both the character and Nimoy.  Quinto's reaction beautifully mirrored the audience's.   It was more than adequate closure IMO>

A CG appearance would be even more redundant and unnecessary than his Skype cameo in STID.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites