Admiral Harmon

Was Jadzia Dax the first transgender major character of ST?

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Okay, rant time:

I've never understood the need for people to make every really close male/female friendship homosexual in nature. Not just in ST but in every franchise there seems to be a need to fantasize them as such. Poe and Finn, Sirius Black and James Potter (although I definitely feel Sirius was gay towards James even if the feelings weren't reciprocated), Bashir and O'Brian, Spock and Kirk, Sam and Frodo, to name just a few.

In fact, when they revealed that the two women Root and Shaw in Person of Interest infact had romantic feelings for each other, I made the comment that there was no indication they were prior. The LBGT members of that page on Facebook tore me apart "How can you not have seen it! They were angry at each other all the time and that's a good indication they were!" "You must be blind for not seeing it! It was so obvious!""Only homophobes wouldn't see it!"

Even straight there is this insane need to turn a friendship sexual. It's annoying as heck that there needs to be a sexual component to any friendship. Oliver Queen can never be just friends with women in the fans eyes. Daryl and Beth from TWD: I absolutely hated the need fans felt for this girl who is supposed to be a minor in the show (I believe she was still in High School and not close to graduating when the Apoc hit) were supposed to hook up with this mid-thirties guy. :cylonnono:

It's not just the fans though. Even the studios seem to really need to do that now. "You are really close? Okay, you must be romantically interested in each other.

Black Sails is really bad at their need to make every character bisexual. There is only two or three of the major characters that aren't, and one of them I am pretty sure is impotent as he has shown no romantic interest in anybody and seems pretty uncomfortable when he is thrown into a sexual initiation. And not because there is tons of naked women about.

I have had pretty close relationships with tension with male and female friends but there was nothing sexual about it. But I guess that's what we have been trained to do as a society, that we need to view everything under a sexual microscope.

Okay, rant over. :happy:

Edited by Admiral Harmon

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Okay, rant time:

I've never understood the need for people to make every really close male/female friendship homosexual in nature. Not just in ST but in every franchise there seems to be a need to fantasize them as such. Poe and Finn, Sirius Black and James Potter (although I definitely feel Sirius was gay towards James even if the feelings weren't reciprocated), Bashir and O'Brian, Spock and Kirk, Sam and Frodo, to name just a few.

In fact, when they revealed that the two women Root and Shaw in Person of Interest infact had romantic feelings for each other, I made the comment that there was no indication they were prior. The LBGT members of that page on Facebook tore me apart "How can you not have seen it! They were angry at each other all the time and that's a good indication they were!" "You must be blind for not seeing it! It was so obvious!""Only homophobes wouldn't see it!"

Even straight there is this insane need to turn a friendship sexual. It's annoying as heck that there needs to be a sexual component to any friendship. Oliver Queen can never be just friends with women in the fans eyes. Daryl and Beth from TWD: I absolutely hated the need fans felt for this girl who is supposed to be a minor in the show (I believe she was still in High School and not close to graduating when the Apoc hit) were supposed to hook up with this mid-thirties guy. :cylonnono:

It's not just the fans though. Even the studios seem to really need to do that now. "You are really close? Okay, you must be romantically interested in each other.

Black Sails is really bad at their need to make every character bisexual. There is only two or three of the major characters that aren't, and one of them I am pretty sure is impotent as he has shown no romantic interest in anybody and seems pretty uncomfortable when he is thrown into a sexual initiation. And not because there is tons of naked women about.

I have had pretty close relationships with tension with male and female friends but there was nothing sexual about it. But I guess that's what we have been trained to do as a society, that we need to view everything under a sexual microscope.

Okay, rant over. :happy:

Okay, rant time.

I've never understood the need of straight male fans in particular to deny any kind of tension between two male characters, be that tension romantic or sexual or both. An ongoing theme between two male characters literally has to be slapped into their faces for them to accept that there might be something there, and even then it's usually "they're just pals" and "why can't they just be seen as friends". Kirk and Spock, Frodo and Sam, to name just a few.

In fact, in these days, when romantic relationships between same-sex characters are made public, fans scream "I didn't see it, there was no indication this was going to happen, why is this happening, I needed more proof". As if same-sex relationships needed any kind of map or details exploration or as if an LGBT character needs to explicitly be mentioned as such, if not, they're straight because straight is always the default setting and how dare anyone say otherwise all of a sudden by "making them gay/lesbian/bi".

A male character who doesn't seem interested in women for whatever reason is completely unrealistic. It's not possible he's asexual and might actually for once represent people of that part of the orientation spectrum.  And yeah, how dare the studios decide to have bisexual representation all the time. Where are the good old straight male characters who dream of nothing but women?? It's almost like a huge percentage of people in real life has bisexual tendencies and shows are willing to reflect this kind of thing.

It's almost like as if people who see relationships between characters reflect things that simply happen in life sometimes, and it's almost like as if LGBT folks in particular are starved for representation on TV and that's why they are very eager to ship same-sex characters with each other. Almost. 

Okay, rant over.

(Do I need to add more irony here or was there enough...?) 

 

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Okay, rant time:

I've never understood the need for people to make every really close male/female friendship homosexual in nature. Not just in ST but in every franchise there seems to be a need to fantasize them as such. Poe and Finn, Sirius Black and James Potter (although I definitely feel Sirius was gay towards James even if the feelings weren't reciprocated), Bashir and O'Brian, Spock and Kirk, Sam and Frodo, to name just a few.

In fact, when they revealed that the two women Root and Shaw in Person of Interest infact had romantic feelings for each other, I made the comment that there was no indication they were prior. The LBGT members of that page on Facebook tore me apart "How can you not have seen it! They were angry at each other all the time and that's a good indication they were!" "You must be blind for not seeing it! It was so obvious!""Only homophobes wouldn't see it!"

Even straight there is this insane need to turn a friendship sexual. It's annoying as heck that there needs to be a sexual component to any friendship. Oliver Queen can never be just friends with women in the fans eyes. Daryl and Beth from TWD: I absolutely hated the need fans felt for this girl who is supposed to be a minor in the show (I believe she was still in High School and not close to graduating when the Apoc hit) were supposed to hook up with this mid-thirties guy. :cylonnono:

It's not just the fans though. Even the studios seem to really need to do that now. "You are really close? Okay, you must be romantically interested in each other.

Black Sails is really bad at their need to make every character bisexual. There is only two or three of the major characters that aren't, and one of them I am pretty sure is impotent as he has shown no romantic interest in anybody and seems pretty uncomfortable when he is thrown into a sexual initiation. And not because there is tons of naked women about.

I have had pretty close relationships with tension with male and female friends but there was nothing sexual about it. But I guess that's what we have been trained to do as a society, that we need to view everything under a sexual microscope.

Okay, rant over. :happy:

Okay, rant time.

I've never understood the need of straight male fans in particular to deny any kind of tension between two male characters, be that tension romantic or sexual or both. An ongoing theme between two male characters literally has to be slapped into their faces for them to accept that there might be something there, and even then it's usually "they're just pals" and "why can't they just be seen as friends". Kirk and Spock, Frodo and Sam, to name just a few.

In fact, in these days, when romantic relationships between same-sex characters are made public, fans scream "I didn't see it, there was no indication this was going to happen, why is this happening, I needed more proof". As if same-sex relationships needed any kind of map or details exploration or as if an LGBT character needs to explicitly be mentioned as such, if not, they're straight because straight is always the default setting and how dare anyone say otherwise all of a sudden by "making them gay/lesbian/bi".

A male character who doesn't seem interested in women for whatever reason is completely unrealistic. It's not possible he's asexual and might actually for once represent people of that part of the orientation spectrum.  And yeah, how dare the studios decide to have bisexual representation all the time. Where are the good old straight male characters who dream of nothing but women?? It's almost like a huge percentage of people in real life has bisexual tendencies and shows are willing to reflect this kind of thing.

It's almost like as if people who see relationships between characters reflect things that simply happen in life sometimes, and it's almost like as if LGBT folks in particular are starved for representation on TV and that's why they are very eager to ship same-sex characters with each other. Almost. 

Okay, rant over.

(Do I need to add more irony here or was there enough...?) 

No need to be an arse about it. Even if it's the reaction I suspected would happen for stating my opinion. :giggle:

If you actually read what I said, I was clear about the fact the whole issue of people needing there to be a sexual thing, whether there was or not, is ridiculous. The idea of making something out of nothing. No matter if it's straight or homosexual, same aged or difference in age, adult and minor there is no need to always be trying to make sexual connections about everything although people are overwhelmingly wanting there to be something.

That is what I was saying.

I'm not bashing gay people, as you seem to think I am. :eh:

With that said, let's go back to the actual topic before hard feelings are created by misunderstanding and hard words. :)

Edited by Admiral Harmon

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Okay, rant time:

I've never understood the need for people to make every really close male/female friendship homosexual in nature. Not just in ST but in every franchise there seems to be a need to fantasize them as such. Poe and Finn, Sirius Black and James Potter (although I definitely feel Sirius was gay towards James even if the feelings weren't reciprocated), Bashir and O'Brian, Spock and Kirk, Sam and Frodo, to name just a few.

In fact, when they revealed that the two women Root and Shaw in Person of Interest infact had romantic feelings for each other, I made the comment that there was no indication they were prior. The LBGT members of that page on Facebook tore me apart "How can you not have seen it! They were angry at each other all the time and that's a good indication they were!" "You must be blind for not seeing it! It was so obvious!""Only homophobes wouldn't see it!"

Even straight there is this insane need to turn a friendship sexual. It's annoying as heck that there needs to be a sexual component to any friendship. Oliver Queen can never be just friends with women in the fans eyes. Daryl and Beth from TWD: I absolutely hated the need fans felt for this girl who is supposed to be a minor in the show (I believe she was still in High School and not close to graduating when the Apoc hit) were supposed to hook up with this mid-thirties guy. :cylonnono:

It's not just the fans though. Even the studios seem to really need to do that now. "You are really close? Okay, you must be romantically interested in each other.

Black Sails is really bad at their need to make every character bisexual. There is only two or three of the major characters that aren't, and one of them I am pretty sure is impotent as he has shown no romantic interest in anybody and seems pretty uncomfortable when he is thrown into a sexual initiation. And not because there is tons of naked women about.

I have had pretty close relationships with tension with male and female friends but there was nothing sexual about it. But I guess that's what we have been trained to do as a society, that we need to view everything under a sexual microscope.

Okay, rant over. :happy:

Okay, rant time.

I've never understood the need of straight male fans in particular to deny any kind of tension between two male characters, be that tension romantic or sexual or both. An ongoing theme between two male characters literally has to be slapped into their faces for them to accept that there might be something there, and even then it's usually "they're just pals" and "why can't they just be seen as friends". Kirk and Spock, Frodo and Sam, to name just a few.

In fact, in these days, when romantic relationships between same-sex characters are made public, fans scream "I didn't see it, there was no indication this was going to happen, why is this happening, I needed more proof". As if same-sex relationships needed any kind of map or details exploration or as if an LGBT character needs to explicitly be mentioned as such, if not, they're straight because straight is always the default setting and how dare anyone say otherwise all of a sudden by "making them gay/lesbian/bi".

A male character who doesn't seem interested in women for whatever reason is completely unrealistic. It's not possible he's asexual and might actually for once represent people of that part of the orientation spectrum.  And yeah, how dare the studios decide to have bisexual representation all the time. Where are the good old straight male characters who dream of nothing but women?? It's almost like a huge percentage of people in real life has bisexual tendencies and shows are willing to reflect this kind of thing.

It's almost like as if people who see relationships between characters reflect things that simply happen in life sometimes, and it's almost like as if LGBT folks in particular are starved for representation on TV and that's why they are very eager to ship same-sex characters with each other. Almost. 

Okay, rant over.

(Do I need to add more irony here or was there enough...?) 

No need to be an arse about it.

If you actually read what I said, I was clear about the fact the whole issue of people needing there to be a sexual thing, whether there was or not, is ridiculous. The idea of making something out of nothing. No matter if it's straight or homosexual, same aged or difference in age, adult and minor there is no need to always be trying to make sexual connections about everything. That is what I was saying.

I did read what you said, that's how/why I translated it into what it sounded like. No need to call me "an arse". If you argued in that exact style on that Facebook page it's absolutely no wonder you were "torn apart" by LGBT fans there. If a straight male person barges in and complains about "making relationships homosexual", all our warning alerts go on because this kind of stuff is what we have to listen to over and over again, whenever we get representation on TV or in movies, it's always scrutinized carefully. If a character ends up in a straight relationship, however, no one bats an eye (except for the shippers who shipped that character with someone else before, granted). And that's what's riling us up, and that's why you encountered the reactions. Your style sounds like what I translated it into. You may or may not have wanted to argue that you don't like ANY relationships but it certainly SOUNDED like as if you were complaining about "making characters gay". And that's why people reacted this way.

Irony is, I do agree with you that too many relationships are annoying and that there are characters who simply should be left alone when it comes to relationships, both literally and figuratively. I personally wish there was more aromantic/asexual/demisexual representation on TV but that's wishful thinking. Although I must also say this Black Sails show intrigues me now. Especially that "impotent" character (I'm trying not to point out again how a lack of sexual interest does NOT automatically equal impotence). Seems like a very interesting fellow to me. Maybe I should check it out. A show that has lots of bisexual characters and keeps adding more and more sounds like something I should definitely watch.

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Okay, rant time:

I've never understood the need for people to make every really close male/female friendship homosexual in nature. Not just in ST but in every franchise there seems to be a need to fantasize them as such. Poe and Finn, Sirius Black and James Potter (although I definitely feel Sirius was gay towards James even if the feelings weren't reciprocated), Bashir and O'Brian, Spock and Kirk, Sam and Frodo, to name just a few.

In fact, when they revealed that the two women Root and Shaw in Person of Interest infact had romantic feelings for each other, I made the comment that there was no indication they were prior. The LBGT members of that page on Facebook tore me apart "How can you not have seen it! They were angry at each other all the time and that's a good indication they were!" "You must be blind for not seeing it! It was so obvious!""Only homophobes wouldn't see it!"

Even straight there is this insane need to turn a friendship sexual. It's annoying as heck that there needs to be a sexual component to any friendship. Oliver Queen can never be just friends with women in the fans eyes. Daryl and Beth from TWD: I absolutely hated the need fans felt for this girl who is supposed to be a minor in the show (I believe she was still in High School and not close to graduating when the Apoc hit) were supposed to hook up with this mid-thirties guy. :cylonnono:

It's not just the fans though. Even the studios seem to really need to do that now. "You are really close? Okay, you must be romantically interested in each other.

Black Sails is really bad at their need to make every character bisexual. There is only two or three of the major characters that aren't, and one of them I am pretty sure is impotent as he has shown no romantic interest in anybody and seems pretty uncomfortable when he is thrown into a sexual initiation. And not because there is tons of naked women about.

I have had pretty close relationships with tension with male and female friends but there was nothing sexual about it. But I guess that's what we have been trained to do as a society, that we need to view everything under a sexual microscope.

Okay, rant over. :happy:

Okay, rant time.

I've never understood the need of straight male fans in particular to deny any kind of tension between two male characters, be that tension romantic or sexual or both. An ongoing theme between two male characters literally has to be slapped into their faces for them to accept that there might be something there, and even then it's usually "they're just pals" and "why can't they just be seen as friends". Kirk and Spock, Frodo and Sam, to name just a few.

In fact, in these days, when romantic relationships between same-sex characters are made public, fans scream "I didn't see it, there was no indication this was going to happen, why is this happening, I needed more proof". As if same-sex relationships needed any kind of map or details exploration or as if an LGBT character needs to explicitly be mentioned as such, if not, they're straight because straight is always the default setting and how dare anyone say otherwise all of a sudden by "making them gay/lesbian/bi".

A male character who doesn't seem interested in women for whatever reason is completely unrealistic. It's not possible he's asexual and might actually for once represent people of that part of the orientation spectrum.  And yeah, how dare the studios decide to have bisexual representation all the time. Where are the good old straight male characters who dream of nothing but women?? It's almost like a huge percentage of people in real life has bisexual tendencies and shows are willing to reflect this kind of thing.

It's almost like as if people who see relationships between characters reflect things that simply happen in life sometimes, and it's almost like as if LGBT folks in particular are starved for representation on TV and that's why they are very eager to ship same-sex characters with each other. Almost. 

Okay, rant over.

(Do I need to add more irony here or was there enough...?) 

No need to be an arse about it.

If you actually read what I said, I was clear about the fact the whole issue of people needing there to be a sexual thing, whether there was or not, is ridiculous. The idea of making something out of nothing. No matter if it's straight or homosexual, same aged or difference in age, adult and minor there is no need to always be trying to make sexual connections about everything. That is what I was saying.

I did read what you said, that's how/why I translated it into what it sounded like. No need to call me "an arse". If you argued in that exact style on that Facebook page it's absolutely no wonder you were "torn apart" by LGBT fans there. If a straight male person barges in and complains about "making relationships homosexual", all our warning alerts go on because this kind of stuff is what we have to listen to over and over again, whenever we get representation on TV or in movies, it's always scrutinized carefully. If a character ends up in a straight relationship, however, no one bats an eye (except for the shippers who shipped that character with someone else before, granted). And that's what's riling us up, and that's why you encountered the reactions. Your style sounds like what I translated it into. You may or may not have wanted to argue that you don't like ANY relationships but it certainly SOUNDED like as if you were complaining about "making characters gay". And that's why people reacted this way.

Irony is, I do agree with you that too many relationships are annoying and that there are characters who simply should be left alone when it comes to relationships, both literally and figuratively. I personally wish there was more aromantic/asexual/demisexual representation on TV but that's wishful thinking. Although I must also say this Black Sails show intrigues me now. Especially that "impotent" character (I'm trying not to point out again how a lack of sexual interest does NOT automatically equal impotence). Seems like a very interesting fellow to me. Maybe I should check it out. A show that has lots of bisexual characters and keeps adding more and more sounds like something I should definitely watch.

It's done and over with. Let's go back to the topic at hand. 

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Okay, rant time:

I've never understood the need for people to make every really close male/female friendship homosexual in nature. Not just in ST but in every franchise there seems to be a need to fantasize them as such. Poe and Finn, Sirius Black and James Potter (although I definitely feel Sirius was gay towards James even if the feelings weren't reciprocated), Bashir and O'Brian, Spock and Kirk, Sam and Frodo, to name just a few.

In fact, when they revealed that the two women Root and Shaw in Person of Interest infact had romantic feelings for each other, I made the comment that there was no indication they were prior. The LBGT members of that page on Facebook tore me apart "How can you not have seen it! They were angry at each other all the time and that's a good indication they were!" "You must be blind for not seeing it! It was so obvious!""Only homophobes wouldn't see it!"

Even straight there is this insane need to turn a friendship sexual. It's annoying as heck that there needs to be a sexual component to any friendship. Oliver Queen can never be just friends with women in the fans eyes. Daryl and Beth from TWD: I absolutely hated the need fans felt for this girl who is supposed to be a minor in the show (I believe she was still in High School and not close to graduating when the Apoc hit) were supposed to hook up with this mid-thirties guy. :cylonnono:

It's not just the fans though. Even the studios seem to really need to do that now. "You are really close? Okay, you must be romantically interested in each other.

Black Sails is really bad at their need to make every character bisexual. There is only two or three of the major characters that aren't, and one of them I am pretty sure is impotent as he has shown no romantic interest in anybody and seems pretty uncomfortable when he is thrown into a sexual initiation. And not because there is tons of naked women about.

I have had pretty close relationships with tension with male and female friends but there was nothing sexual about it. But I guess that's what we have been trained to do as a society, that we need to view everything under a sexual microscope.

Okay, rant over. :happy:

Okay, rant time.

I've never understood the need of straight male fans in particular to deny any kind of tension between two male characters, be that tension romantic or sexual or both. An ongoing theme between two male characters literally has to be slapped into their faces for them to accept that there might be something there, and even then it's usually "they're just pals" and "why can't they just be seen as friends". Kirk and Spock, Frodo and Sam, to name just a few.

In fact, in these days, when romantic relationships between same-sex characters are made public, fans scream "I didn't see it, there was no indication this was going to happen, why is this happening, I needed more proof". As if same-sex relationships needed any kind of map or details exploration or as if an LGBT character needs to explicitly be mentioned as such, if not, they're straight because straight is always the default setting and how dare anyone say otherwise all of a sudden by "making them gay/lesbian/bi".

A male character who doesn't seem interested in women for whatever reason is completely unrealistic. It's not possible he's asexual and might actually for once represent people of that part of the orientation spectrum.  And yeah, how dare the studios decide to have bisexual representation all the time. Where are the good old straight male characters who dream of nothing but women?? It's almost like a huge percentage of people in real life has bisexual tendencies and shows are willing to reflect this kind of thing.

It's almost like as if people who see relationships between characters reflect things that simply happen in life sometimes, and it's almost like as if LGBT folks in particular are starved for representation on TV and that's why they are very eager to ship same-sex characters with each other. Almost. 

Okay, rant over.

(Do I need to add more irony here or was there enough...?) 

No need to be an arse about it.

If you actually read what I said, I was clear about the fact the whole issue of people needing there to be a sexual thing, whether there was or not, is ridiculous. The idea of making something out of nothing. No matter if it's straight or homosexual, same aged or difference in age, adult and minor there is no need to always be trying to make sexual connections about everything. That is what I was saying.

I did read what you said, that's how/why I translated it into what it sounded like. No need to call me "an arse". If you argued in that exact style on that Facebook page it's absolutely no wonder you were "torn apart" by LGBT fans there. If a straight male person barges in and complains about "making relationships homosexual", all our warning alerts go on because this kind of stuff is what we have to listen to over and over again, whenever we get representation on TV or in movies, it's always scrutinized carefully. If a character ends up in a straight relationship, however, no one bats an eye (except for the shippers who shipped that character with someone else before, granted). And that's what's riling us up, and that's why you encountered the reactions. Your style sounds like what I translated it into. You may or may not have wanted to argue that you don't like ANY relationships but it certainly SOUNDED like as if you were complaining about "making characters gay". And that's why people reacted this way.

Irony is, I do agree with you that too many relationships are annoying and that there are characters who simply should be left alone when it comes to relationships, both literally and figuratively. I personally wish there was more aromantic/asexual/demisexual representation on TV but that's wishful thinking. Although I must also say this Black Sails show intrigues me now. Especially that "impotent" character (I'm trying not to point out again how a lack of sexual interest does NOT automatically equal impotence). Seems like a very interesting fellow to me. Maybe I should check it out. A show that has lots of bisexual characters and keeps adding more and more sounds like something I should definitely watch.

It's done and over with. Let's go back to the topic at hand. 

Yup. Good idea.

The original topic question has been answered though - Dax might represent the genderqueer spectrum in a way, perhaps, but not transgender people in particular. (It's only natural that folks explore other aspects of a topic once the original question has been answered, I guess.)

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What the frak--?  :ohmy:

Not going to beat a dead horse, but I'd just like to add that imagining character backstory and 'non-canon' bits is what we all do here; it's not some kind of 'odd' compulsion to imagine two seemingly straight characters having a relationship any more than it is for other 'shippers' to imagine a hetero relationship between male and female characters.  That's perfectly natural in forums like this; it's an exercise of the imagination.  And sometimes, the actors themselves leave little 'bread crumbs' for we fans to follow if we wish.   Again, this is part of the complex relationship between those who make entertainment and the fans.  Imagination is still legal (though I'm not sure for how much longer in the US), so I suggest we enjoy it.

As for the derail?  That was your doing, Admiral Harmon. 

If you can't handle the answers or if they might upset your worldview than perhaps you should be careful of your questions (and rants).  

And please don't call moderators 'arses'; not cool.  Disagreeing is one thing, name calling is another and won't be tolerated. 

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There's really not much left to do here BUT go off on related tangents as the topic is pretty much answered. Dax is absolutely gender fluid, almost by evolutionary necessity, and certainly so through the requirements of joining as I can't quite fathom symbiots having a host dating site: 

"My next host has to be male and prefer blonde bipeds between 4.11 and 5.4 with a little junk in the trunk because I saw really old pictures of Melissa Rauch and she's sweeeeeeeeeet."

Silly at best, bedlam at worst

But Jadzia is not transgender, nor was she ever. To believe that she is, I think, completely misunderstands the term.

Edited by prometheus59650

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There's really not much left to do here BUT go off on related tangents as the topic is pretty much answered. Dax is absolutely gender fluid, almost by evolutionary necessity, and certainly so through the requirements of joining as I can't quite fathom symbiots having a host dating site: 

"My next host has to be male and prefer blonde bipeds between 4.11 and 5.4 with a little junk in the trunk because I saw really old pictures of Melissa Rauch and she's sweeeeeeeeeet."

laughing-gif8.gif

But seriously (trying to suppress laughing... ah, better now). :)

I've often thought of the Trill symbionts acquisition of new hosts almost as a sort of marriage; they seek the best 'mate' (based on the candidate's 'fitness') and join with them, for good and bad.  Whatever happens after the joining is up to both the maturity of the host in dealing with new situations and the wisdom of the symbiont, but I'd imagine that waking up in a new gender would be no more/less traumatic for a properly trained Trill than one of us waking up after minor surgery.   Since the symbionts themselves seems somewhat devoid of sexual traits (to our knowledge anyway; as Mutai pointed out, we never knew of their breeding practices), I'd imagine the sexual inclinations of joined Trill are colored largely by the host, as well as the symbionts own memories of past hosts ("Rejoined").

But on the question posed by the thread?  Yeah, I think it's pretty much nailed.  

 

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But Jadzia is not transgender, nor was she ever. To believe that she is, I think, completely misunderstands the term.

This.thumb.png.b385eb165966a178b9a4371a8

Nailed indeed. Dax and transgender = not a match by any means. Dax and genderqueer = yup, can imagine. Although I do have to point out that genderqueer wasn't exactly much of a term yet in the 90s, and therefore I'm honestly not sure if the writers thought this far ahead. I remember someone on Twitter asking one of the DS9 writers why they didn't make Odo an asexual character, and the writer said that this was definitely a possibility and that today he probably would be written as such. So the writers DID play with themes, but some stuff just wasn't "well-known enough" yet.

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I've often thought of the Trill symbionts acquisition of new hosts almost as a sort of marriage; they seek the best 'mate' (based on the candidate's 'fitness') and join with them, for good and bad

Pretty much as displayed by Dax's murderous host. Turned out badly, of course, but, indeed the biggest problem came from trying to repress the events. Once integrated, everything was fine. Symbiot gets host, now let's go have a life, 

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Why did the evil Kira have to be bisexual when the clearly evident intonations of the prime Garak was that he too was bisexual and a spy, ergo evil in some way? That is not very progressive.

Because, not too put too fine a point on it, but bisexual women are fine in media because most men identify as hetero. This has the potential of including us as the third in a Dax/Kahn tryst. This appeals. Even if they are lesbians, since most men identify as hetero, watching appeals. That's why there's very little trouble finding two women kissing in some context on television or film over two men.

Kira is a more complex case. I can make a reasonable run at calling Kira pansexual because she has a deep, unmet need for love and I don't think she'd care if it came from a sapient cephalopod. She approaches sex so casually that it's almost something done by way of introduction, "Hi, I'm Kira. Wanna do it?"

And she feels so wounded at even the slightest betrayal that she has no problem killing them for it. She uses her body and sexuality because she thinks it's going to get her the actual love she craves. And when it doesn't work she turns homicidal.

She wouldn't care WHAT told her they loved her, so long as they meant it. And she wouldn't care what sort of being she had to take bed in order to hear it.

Edited by prometheus59650

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Ha, that's some funny stuff, Prom!

Dax was pan sexual, not of the transgender type (not a noun? well it is a noun, as a 'type of person'), but they still didn't know what to do with her character, so eventually she was paired with that super macho Worf to the end of, now they won't get any funny ideas, only to be killed stupidly later on.

But why did they have to make the pansexual Kira only in the 'evil mirror universe"? Well it was the 1990s. In the 'prime timeline' she was never interested in other women, or if she was, it was clearly as friends and professionals.

Crusher had a handful of relationships that never led to the lover dying.

Riker had dozens of relationships ending with the lover dying.

Worf had a handful of relationships, some of which ended with his lover dying, but most not.

Garak had a number of relationship,s some of which ended in death, but most did not.

Picard had a few relationships usually ending in the lover surviving or never being seen again.

Troi had many relations, most of which did not appear again later.

Neelix and Kes was just wrong.

Sisko had the most stable relationships and appeared to buck the trend.

O'Brien was constantly feuding but bucked the trend.

Bashir and Ezri in the final episodes was dumb.

Odo and Kira was just awkward.

Seems most of the straight relationships were messed up more so than any gay ones!!!

Also don't blame the writers for the lack of transparency and not wanting to push the gender issues. They had to answer to the editors. The writers are not given a say in the writer's room about that. The editor would choose which story to block and they would follow the head writer on that.

The editor is to follow the director and to the producers.

The director films the story and blocks out the details for each episode.

Oh my!

Edited by Chimera82405

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Dax was bi-sexual certainly, but I don't know if she was pan.

As for Kira? I don't know that Intendant Kira was pansexual in that she had genuine attraction or feeling towards anyone regardless of gender or species. I'm not even sure she's capable of reciprocating that romantic love, but it's pretty clear that she wants to be loved. She wants to be the recipient of that feeling no matter who might give it to her, so if some sentient octopus would sincerely love her, she'd get into that even if he wasn't someone she'd normally look once at.

 

Edited by prometheus59650

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Dax was bi-sexual certainly, but I don't know if she was pan.

She dated Captain Boday; the guy had a clear skull.  I'm guessing she'd date just about anyone.  Or anything.    When I was single, she gave me hope... :laugh:

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Dax was bi-sexual certainly, but I don't know if she was pan.

She dated Captain Boday; the guy had a clear skull.  I'm guessing she'd date just about anyone.  Or anything.    When I was single, she gave me hope... :laugh:

In the 2017 age of CGI, I'd love to see his species. :) 

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Dax was bi-sexual certainly, but I don't know if she was pan.

She dated Captain Boday; the guy had a clear skull.  I'm guessing she'd date just about anyone.  Or anything.    When I was single, she gave me hope... :laugh:

In the 2017 age of CGI, I'd love to see his species. :) 

Who knows?  Maybe with DSC, they will...

But Jadzia was totally un-self conscious about her pan-sexuality;  I loved that.

I think she'd go out with a Horta if it weren't for their nasty habit of melting through solid minerals; it'd make booking a nice restaurant problematic.  :P

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Dax was bi-sexual certainly, but I don't know if she was pan.

She dated Captain Boday; the guy had a clear skull.  I'm guessing she'd date just about anyone.  Or anything.    When I was single, she gave me hope... :laugh:

In the 2017 age of CGI, I'd love to see his species. :) 

Who knows?  Maybe with DSC, they will...

But Jadzia was totally un-self conscious about her pan-sexuality;  I loved that.

I think she'd go out with a Horta if it weren't for their nasty habit of melting through solid minerals; it'd make booking a nice restaurant problematic.  :P

But it'd be so easy to get away from it all...a nice little quiet spot in the side of a mountain, freshly made ;)

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