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Admiral Harmon

Excluding the Borg, what faction would have the best chance defeating the Federation?

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In an all out war, no-bars fight to the bitter end, which race would have the best chance at defeating or destroying the Federation? I'm talking about a war where the Federation wouldn't be able to reach a peace with them, and where neither side would not have any allies to help them. So the Federation couldn't get the Klingons to help, nor the Dominion could call on the Cardassians. It would be a war in where either the enemy would literally lose everything they had or the Federation was forced into a surrender.

Now, I'm excluding the Borg in this. More then a decade after their first contact with them, they still can barely hold their own against a single Cube. Based on show evidence, all the Borg would need do is send maybe two cubes and they could all but destroy the Federation no problem if they really wanted to end things.

I am also excluding races that wouldn't be able to reach them. Like the Kazon. Also, excluding races that we only see for only a couple episodes at most (Gorn, Tholians) and don't really know their tech.

So like the Cardassians, Klingons, Dominion, etc.

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Dominion, no question.

Their soldiers are drug-addicted drones that follow their leaders blindly and with obedience that transcends into worship.  They also have an interesting three-tiered system that allows them to worm their way into an enemy's defenses; you have the shock troops (the Jem'Hadar) who are the first line of attack, you have the wily diplomats (Vorta) who can negotiate an invasion into a legal 'alliance' which benefits only their side, and you have the mercurial leadership (Founders) who not only lead with deity-like worship from their subjects, but can even be used on the front lines themselves as agents; the ultimate infiltrators by their very natures.

Their troops can also go from infant to ready-for-combat soldiers in far shorter time than a Klingon, or a Romulan or most other Alpha Quadrant threat.

Even if the Dominion lost the use of Vorta and Jem'Hadar troops, they'd still be formidable threats with only the Founders; we saw only a handful of them wreak absolute panic on Earth in DS9's "Paradise Lost"; they nearly plunged the planet into martial law overnight.   Now imagine if 40 or 50 of them infiltrated the Federation?

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The Dominion got a lot closer than the Borg at conquering the Federation. The Borg just came around and assimilated stuff, later to be destroyed on that same day, the Dominion actually destroyed several Starfleet ships and ware virtually unstopable during the 3 years of war.

Speak for itself:

tumblr_mpedcg4cpE1rzu2xzo1_r1_400.gif

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The Dominion got a lot closer than the Borg at conquering the Federation. The Borg just came around and assimilated stuff, later to be destroyed on that same day, the Dominion actually destroyed several Starfleet ships and ware virtually unstopable during the 3 years of war.

Speak for itself:

tumblr_mpedcg4cpE1rzu2xzo1_r1_400.gif

And that was with the Dominion taking on the Klingons AND the Romulans too.  If it'd only been the Dominion against the Federation with no allies on either side?  I really think they'd be the ones to overthrow the Feds. 

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Yes, the Dominion. They almost managed to.

Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians? With each of them, the Federation was in a war in the "past" (seen from TNG/DS9), but they all ended in a stale-mate, a peace where more or less both sides could save face, respectively. Guess that means they were about equally strong (or the others were even weaker, but the Federation showed no interest in going on with the war beyond restoring the status quo).

Now if the Federation was a capitalistic system? The Ferengis would probably buy the whole thing within one week... :giggle:

Edited by Sim

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In a straight up war? The Dominion owned. Without the AQ unified and the Federation dabbling in genocide, it would have won.

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But don't the Dominion have the resources of an entire quadrant behind them. There may only be three races fighting but how many are building. Aren't they fighting with allies?

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But don't the Dominion have the resources of an entire quadrant behind them. There may only be three races fighting but how many are building. Aren't they fighting with allies?

The Dominion, by all appearances owned the majority of the GQ.

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But don't the Dominion have the resources of an entire quadrant behind them. There may only be three races fighting but how many are building. Aren't they fighting with allies?

The name made me think it's a kind of colonial empire, much like the 19th century British Empire: Many races are subjugated, and they all contribute in one way or another, to the cause of the master race, which are the Founders. They aren't really allies, more like vassals.

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But don't the Dominion have the resources of an entire quadrant behind them. There may only be three races fighting but how many are building. Aren't they fighting with allies?

The name made me think it's a kind of colonial empire, much like the 19th century British Empire: Many races are subjugated, and they all contribute in one way or another, to the cause of the master race, which are the Founders. They aren't really allies, more like vassals.

This. I got the impression that they were essentially owned and controlled by the Founders.

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THE TRIBBLES WILL EAT YOU ALL IN THE END

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But don't the Dominion have the resources of an entire quadrant behind them. There may only be three races fighting but how many are building. Aren't they fighting with allies?

No, they would not be fighting with allies, but as in the OP I said "faction", so you'd have a ton of races that could potentially be involved, depending on exactly how many of their people the Dominion would throw into the war.

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Ha, the tribbles! Yes, the most lethal and dangerous enemy, are cute on the off set, but they eat everything, and multiply like vermin. The Federation would be overrun in a year. Mwahaha.

The Dominion and their space crack smoking clone army and their businessmen mafia were kind of silly, but lethal. They also were on the other side of a wormhole the Emissary could effectively close by contacting the aliens that ran it, which was done in that one season. They also made one of the Jem Hadar fleets vanish. Why didn't they ask them to close it off just to their ships? The war is over. Starved for energy and new ships, with their shipyards blasted by the Romulans or Klingons, they would effectively be cut off, like a resistance from one country, which has one port. Why the Federation didn't just hold up a blockade in front of it for 3 years and shoot any Founder ship passing through is not known. They would eventually get the hint. Still they did get around this on the show, DS9, and tried to make it make some sense, except for the ending where they basically bribe the Founder lady into an armistice for the cure from Odo, which he gives to the link, of a retrovirus the section 31 invented. And who's to say the Founder queen was even redeemed at the end? She could just recover, turn around and kick Odo out and get back to business as usual. So no, the Dominion could not have finished off the Federation. It had too many issues. Section 31 in leu of this, pulled the strings and could have made a more powerful virus, wiping them out.

And another thing, in TV and movies you can have a shape shifter behave like you and he acts just like you, without even knowing your subtleties, movements, motions or any of that, when in the real world you would easily spot a clone fake. He or she woul not act or behave like you, or would be off somehow, being an alien. Also he or she could not possibly smell like you, so you could catch him, or your close relations would, in some way.

Besides, if you finish off the heroes you have brooding dark series where nobody wins and evil triumphs.

You excluded the Borg, but clearly the early idea of them being like insects with no gender, an unstoppable terminator like force, would have utterly destroyed the Federation if they were inclined to. The later incarnations where they became more humanized were weakening to them, to the point that even the Voyager could stop a cube. That was some serious bad writing! No, Voyager would have been not only assimilated but torn to bits. This is probably why you did not want to use the Borg. Heh.

The Federation's strength is in it being varied and made up of a collective of worlds, and allies, like a socialite space UN. Even if you blew up Earth, there would still be something. They are also para military or even pseudo military. They also have science and diplomacy. It is always better to outsmart your enemy than to fight them.

Edited by Chimera82405

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THE TRIBBLES WILL EAT YOU ALL IN THE END

Hence... the Great Tribble Hunt.  :laugh:

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THE TRIBBLES WILL EAT YOU ALL IN THE END

Hence... the Great Tribble Hunt.  :laugh:

Quaplah! It was a glorious day for the Empire! We Klingons of Quonos fought hard against the fuzzy tyranny of their ilk!

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I agree about the Dominion. With the Dominion/Breen/Cardassian forces vs. Feds/Klingon/Romulan it was a pretty even fight and if Odo hadn't bargained for an end, even with the Cardies changing sides, I don't think anyone would have been a real winner. Even so, I have a feeling the Federation was at the end of the war at only maybe half-strength as with what Odo said that none of the Alpha powers were in any shape to do any invading.

The only other one's I can think of that could be considered would be the Conspiracy aliens/insects. Like the Founders, they could infiltrate anywhere. 

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I agree about the Dominion. With the Dominion/Breen/Cardassian forces vs. Feds/Klingon/Romulan it was a pretty even fight and if Odo hadn't bargained for an end, even with the Cardies changing sides, I don't think anyone would have been a real winner. Even so, I have a feeling the Federation was at the end of the war at only maybe half-strength as with what Odo said that none of the Alpha powers were in any shape to do any invading.

The only other one's I can think of that could be considered would be the Conspiracy aliens/insects. Like the Founders, they could infiltrate anywhere. 

I have always felt that the problem with the Aliens was that they were actually easy to detect by those who were close to the people that they took over. It would have been sooner or later before they'd have been found out and they simply would have been overpowered by the sheer numbers of enemies.

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Genetically enhanced Species 8472 preyed on the Borg with ease, so them.

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Posted (edited)

The Pakleds, clearly (but slowly).

Edited by Tupperfan

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40 minutes ago, Tupperfan said:

The Pakleds, clearly (but slowly).

Annoyed the Federation to the point of surrender.

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The Q continuum.

They'd wish the entire Federation into the corn field.  :laugh:

tumblr_m1ep99jP4V1qlkb9mo1_r2_500.gif

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"It was good that they did that."

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56 minutes ago, prometheus59650 said:

"It was good that they did that."

i369Av0wwzCx.gif

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26 minutes ago, Panashe said:

The Ewoks, cute, cuddly, bloodthirsty.

Also known as Endorians.

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