kc1966

Is Discovery in trouble?

25 posts in this topic

Just read the article that says they are postponing Discovery again.  All positive sounding but I wonder if this is a bad sign.  Is Discovery already in trouble?  Thoughts?  (Glad I have not subscribed to the channel yet!)  

 

(To moderators - sorry I posted this in the wrong place.  Please move it!)

Edited by kc1966

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's in trouble, I think they just didn't realize the undertaking it was going to be when they announced it. And I think they hired the right guy for the job, he just happened to have too much on his plate to get it off the ground on time, and now that they've moved on to his second in commands, maybe they've changed a few things or just realized that casting was taking longer than hoped...and now they still have to make a production that doesn't disappoint in the production design, or cheap out on the effects. They've hinged a lot on this program, and now I think the mentality is "let's not rush it and cheap out on it now." And with the casting process finally finishing up and shooting finally about to begin, I think they just know that the deadlines initially made were no longer reasonable. 

To quote my favorite author, Douglas Adams, "I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they go by."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just read the article that says they are postponing Discovery again.  All positive sounding but I wonder if this is a bad sign.  Is Discovery already in trouble?  Thoughts?  (Glad I have not subscribed to the channel yet!)  

 

(To moderators - sorry I posted this in the wrong place.  Please move it!)

Done. 

I don't think it's in trouble, I think they just didn't realize the undertaking it was going to be when they announced it. And I think they hired the right guy for the job, he just happened to have too much on his plate to get it off the ground on time, and now that they've moved on to his second in commands, maybe they've changed a few things or just realized that casting was taking longer than hoped...and now they still have to make a production that doesn't disappoint in the production design, or cheap out on the effects. They've hinged a lot on this program, and now I think the mentality is "let's not rush it and cheap out on it now." And with the casting process finally finishing up and shooting finally about to begin, I think they just know that the deadlines initially made were no longer reasonable. 

To quote my favorite author, Douglas Adams, "I love deadlines. I love the whooshing sound they make as they go by."

^
More or less this.   There might be cause for concern, especially with Fuller's abrupt departure but I don't think we're facing a full blown catastrophe either.   This is the first new televised (streaming) ST in 12 years.  It's not like the '90s when ST was a well oiled machine.  It's starting kind of from scratch.

And I don't mind the delays; I'd rather they take their time and focus on doing the best work that they can.   I'm not so desperate for new ST that I'd prefer a rush job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We were talking about this on the main thread:

...Personally, I think it's a bit alarmist to say it's in trouble when there's so little info available. If anything, rescheduling it sounds wise, like they're not rushing production to get it right. I'm hoping that Fuller leaving didn't capsize the ship, but they're taking the time to get it going in the right direction after the overenthusiastic execs announced a too early and unrealistic launch date. I guess someone thought that May was a good claim to make in the 50th anniversary year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes rushing things makes it much more expensive, especially with special effects. Getting everything set up properly before you start filming saves, money and time in the long term. A month or two delay is no big deal. If a month turns into 6 months, I'll get worried. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is what headlines make out of this - and a lot of people just read headlines these days, and since people in the US have to get a whole new TV channel subscription to watch this show, this IS a crucial point. In that aspect, these continued delays are not helping with the show's reputation - it has a "it's taking them ages to get this one going, wonder if something's wrong with it" stigma, at least for now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Being in a hurry on this stuff is rarely a good thing. TMP and the original Battlestar Galactica are prime examples of this when you hear the behind the scenes stories of how rushed they were.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is what headlines make out of this - and a lot of people just read headlines these days, and since people in the US have to get a whole new TV channel subscription to watch this show, this IS a crucial point. In that aspect, these continued delays are not helping with the show's reputation - it has a "it's taking them ages to get this one going, wonder if something's wrong with it" stigma, at least for now. 

^

Agreed.   It feeds into a pre existing narrative. 

I remember similar rumors swirling about during the 1996 production of James Cameron's "Titanic"; everyone in the industry seemed to be whining about the cost, about how the cast and crew ate drug-laced food, how Cameron continually butted heads with Fox, etc.   It seemed like every entertainment journalist suddenly became an accountant. 

Then the movie came out, and became an international runaway hit AND it took home Best Picture in 1998.

I'm not saying DSC will be a runway hit (ST has rarely achieved that status) but I'm preferring to ignore behind the scenes strife and wait for the finished product.   And yes, I'll pay the 7 to 10 bucks a month (the price of a few Starbuck's lattes) because I realize that there is a commerce side to entertainment and I want to support ST because I enjoy it.  It's really as simple as that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I too don't consider this a sign either way, but wait for the finished product.

I'm just annoyed they made the announcement in the first place. They should have avoided giving such a specific launch date so early, before it was certain they could keep it.

Edited by Sim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm worried that it won't happen to be honest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm worried that it won't happen to be honest.

Not a chance. Too much publicity, show is already sold internationally, there is alreayd money on the line no matter what. Plus they've started casting and shooting starts soon, if not some already.  At this point? CBS would release a shoddy rushed version before they scrap entirely at this point.  But I do think they aren't rushing it purely because they see more money in doing it right than in rushing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm worried that it won't happen to be honest.

Not a chance. Too much publicity, show is already sold internationally, there is alreayd money on the line no matter what. Plus they've started casting and shooting starts soon, if not some already.  At this point? CBS would release a shoddy rushed version before they scrap entirely at this point.  But I do think they aren't rushing it purely because they see more money in doing it right than in rushing it.

This all around. It's already sold to where a second season is all buy assured as it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm cautiously hopeful; I think the postponements are signs that they're trying to get this right, and I'm all in favor of their getting it right!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to be clear, I'm right there with SV regarding support for the ST:DSC project unless when I see it I find it too extremely, embarrassingly awful.  I'm also unaware of any study that correlates production planning quality with the commercial and/or artistic success of entertainment content, though there are plenty of anecdotes that support or refute such a correlation.

I've always considered the ST:DSC project, coupled with the CBSAA project, as low-risk, potentially high-reward ventures for CBS.  The risk, such as it is, comes from making something so horrible that it severely damages the, already kind of shaky, Star Trek brand; a brand which nevertheless has at least in the past shown itself to be pretty resilient.  In such a situation, I think production delays border on being trivial concerns for them; basically accounting and contractual nuisances.

I don't think the folks at CBS are happy about the prospect of a ST:DSC premiere in the middle of summer '17, but I doubt they see it as a major problem; though if they get good buzz-generating trailer-fodder from filming I wouldn't be surprised at, and would in fact, free-of-charge, recommend a fall premiere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems to me that with a streaming show, it simply does not matter when it premiers. It can be January, March, May, June or September. CBS is probably balancing the need to make a quality show--for which they are already paying an enormous sum of money per episode Ive heard--against timing. Quality wins out.

So Im not concerned about the premier date. Tell the Creatives that the deadline may be flexible, and they will blow right past it. 

 More concerning is the Fuller firing. Talk on the internet (for what that is worth) is that there was more to it than overcommitment on his part. Creative differences? Personality clashes? Sheer incompetence? We may never know. But it seemed for a while that DSC had a show runner with a strong vision. Now I don't know who is running things and what their vision is or if they have one.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems to me that with a streaming show, it simply does not matter when it premiers. It can be January, March, May, June or September. CBS is probably balancing the need to make a quality show--for which they are already paying an enormous sum of money per episode Ive heard--against timing. Quality wins out.

So Im not concerned about the premier date. Tell the Creatives that the deadline may be flexible, and they will blow right past it. 

 More concerning is the Fuller firing. Talk on the internet (for what that is worth) is that there was more to it than overcommitment on his part. Creative differences? Personality clashes? Sheer incompetence? We may never know. But it seemed for a while that DSC had a show runner with a strong vision. Now I don't know who is running things and what their vision is or if they have one.  

The official story is that he couldn't ST his all because of his duties on "American Gods."  Not sure if I buy that explanation entirely, but it sounds plausible enough. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems to me that with a streaming show, it simply does not matter when it premiers. It can be January, March, May, June or September. CBS is probably balancing the need to make a quality show--for which they are already paying an enormous sum of money per episode Ive heard--against timing. Quality wins out.

So Im not concerned about the premier date. Tell the Creatives that the deadline may be flexible, and they will blow right past it. 

 More concerning is the Fuller firing. Talk on the internet (for what that is worth) is that there was more to it than overcommitment on his part. Creative differences? Personality clashes? Sheer incompetence? We may never know. But it seemed for a while that DSC had a show runner with a strong vision. Now I don't know who is running things and what their vision is or if they have one.  

The official story is that he couldn't ST his all because of his duties on "American Gods."  Not sure if I buy that explanation entirely, but it sounds plausible enough. 

And then, the show is now in the hands of two people Fuller has mentored over years, who were involved in the development together with Fuller from the beginning.

Doesn't sound to me like the suits wanted an entirely different creative direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems to me that with a streaming show, it simply does not matter when it premiers. It can be January, March, May, June or September. CBS is probably balancing the need to make a quality show--for which they are already paying an enormous sum of money per episode Ive heard--against timing. Quality wins out.

So Im not concerned about the premier date. Tell the Creatives that the deadline may be flexible, and they will blow right past it. 

 More concerning is the Fuller firing. Talk on the internet (for what that is worth) is that there was more to it than overcommitment on his part. Creative differences? Personality clashes? Sheer incompetence? We may never know. But it seemed for a while that DSC had a show runner with a strong vision. Now I don't know who is running things and what their vision is or if they have one.  

The official story is that he couldn't ST his all because of his duties on "American Gods."  Not sure if I buy that explanation entirely, but it sounds plausible enough. 

And then, the show is now in the hands of two people Fuller has mentored over years, who were involved in the development together with Fuller from the beginning.

Doesn't sound to me like the suits wanted an entirely different creative direction.

We know so little at this point, it's difficult to make even an educated guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fuller did leave over creative interference and posted, or at least his people did, that he had too much on his plate and needed to concentrate on AG.
Changes to his characters and the script, by committee, which is not a good sign, helped to make it difficult for him to remain on the production. But he did leave others in charge. That might be a good sign.

All Access just isn't making the money they want it to. It has only a few shows, and is nowhere near the profit of Netflix and Hulu. If CBS were smart, they should make this available for free there eventually. They should put all of it on TV and then to streaming, as they do TBBT and other shows.

Word on the street is that the writing team is having a hard time, because the editors keep changing things, (not just trekyards and trekmovie) even after hiring on a Sarek surrogate for a nod to the original show, instead of just a Number One surrogate. The guys above them keep moving the goal, so to speak, and it's throwing off their game. Hopefully they're not just putting in Sarek to shoehorn in someone.

Also the modelling team is being told to rework the ship again, and the sets are not ready. This is from production designers that talked to trekyards and other sites. (I watched their many commentaries on this, but other sites confirm). Drexler, a former ship designer, hinted as much in a brief interview, as he knows people there.

So it's either a good thing they're taking their time, or a maybe thing because of insider issues, and setting things up. It seems to the VGR guy I know of, they just jumped the gun last March and then later this past month, and were not ready to deliver in 2017 May at all, but it could be more like September, which is the 30th anniversary of TNG, opportunity for some kind of cameo, but a cameo is not likely to happen.

And they are letting up on some of the fan film guidelines, just so long as you don't make a profit from your fan film.

I knew they weren't going to be ready on time, just because a new show is a big deal and it was likely they over reached. That ship trailer wasn't even complete. It wasn't even a final design.

As an amateur editor and fan zine and story writer, I could see the process can take a long time.

I suspect or guess (not bet) that the LGBT character will not appear also?

Edited by Chimera82405

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really think the LGBT character is going to stay.  People keep thinking this is still some kind of roadblock or something...but it has become so normalized in TV and film that I doubt there is any hullabaloo over whether or not some character likes the same sex. And since they already made comments that the show WILL feature an LGBT character, releasing the show and having that suddenly stripped away would cause them more grief and bad press than they surely want. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The suits have never really understood Star Trek, and I hope they get out of the way and allow Nick Meyer and Kirsten Beyer to do their thing!

And yeah, I agree with Kenman; I doubt that an LGBT character is a big deal at this point.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm now more concerned that this will effect the chance for Start Trek 4 they are not allowed at the same time

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm now more concerned that this will effect the chance for Start Trek 4 they are not allowed at the same time

I don't think there is any more contractual issue there. CBS, for whatever reason, was barred from making a new series until Paramount made three films. I've heard of any current contractual thing that bars Star trek 4 related to the new series. And since they are still in the earliest stages of Trek 4 (officially I don't think it has been greenlit), whereas they are late into pre-production and nearing shooting and into casting for Discovery. Discovery will still probably launch before they even get into the real pre-production of Beyond's sequel. I wouldn't worry about this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Discovery is going to be coming. They have a new teaser production thing up today and it looks like they are going ahead with production, but were not as far along as they hoped 8 months back. Still they will be ready at some point in 2017. It looks to be more like the fall than they claimed though, unless that was all shot a while ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I've read, special effects take the most time. If they have working scripts for the first 4 or 5 episodes, and have been working on the special effects, they could have an few episodes shot by late spring. There's no reason they couldn't release 5 episodes, then wait for a couple of months and then 5 more. There are many network shows that follow a pattern like that. Show new episodes in Sept, Oct and Nov. Take Dec and Jan off. Then start back up in Feb. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now