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Sim

Which (older) non-Trek tv shows impressed you?

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Locutus   

IMO they're all good, but the best place to start is the original show, SG-1. It's fairly heavily referenced in the other shows, especially SGA, because the two shows ran concrrently for three years. Or rather, you should really start with the 1994 movie starring Kurt Russell. SG-1 is, despite its occasionally depressing themes, basically a light-hearted show. SGA is a bit more serious, but the humor still shows through quite often.

SGU is a different animal altogether: a group of civilian scientists and their military guardians/protectors who get stranded on an ancient ship that's fast running out of resources and barely holding together, in an alien galaxy where the mutually hostile factions must work together to survive. It is at times very dark, but that's as it should be given the scenario. It's what Voyager could have been, if the writers had been a bit more adventurous.

 

I agree that the movie and SG-1 are worth watching.  I didn't like the later seasons of SG-1, at least the episodes that I saw.  Nor did I really take much to Stargate: Atlantis for some reason.

I think you could jump into Stargate Universe without watching them though because it is such a different setup and setting.  There are references to the other series, but none that should really require you to watch its predecessors.

I enjoyed Richard Dean Anderson's sarcastic character in SG-1 which brought more levity to the original tv series.  Stargate Universe is much more serious in tone, but I think it worked well.  

Its abrupt cancellation left a lot more story to tell, unfortunately.

Edited by Locutus

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Sim   

I never watched US tv shows when I was younger, I preferred German stuff - which definitely wasn't sci-fi related, I think this is where my absolute disinterest in the genre originates, I was never raised with it. It also had to do with the fact that my mother hated it when I watched "violent" things, so she basically never really allowed me to watch anything that wasn't considered 'German family entertainment', I was supposed to watch the familiar stuff that she knew was okay, and US TV shows did not fall into that category since she wasn't familiar with them. Since I was also mostly raised by my very conservative grandparents during the week (my parents both worked all day) I was not allowed to watch much TV in the first place when I was young, so I could never really develop much of a taste for TV shows - I would have missed too many episodes. I did watch a lot of German game shows in the evenings when I had the chance though, I loved these. When I got my own TV, I of course could have started to watch ALL the things, but now I myself didn't want to bother with US series (except for X Files), I never really saw much of a point. I mostly just watched German soap operas and soccer instead.

My parents were very protective about me watching "violent" things in tv ... and they often frowned about "these terrible American shows", where everything was solved via fistfights or even guns. On the other side, they were not very restrictive. At first, my mother would observe carefully what I watched, even cover my eyes for "too scary scenes", but I think at some point, my parents just gave up. :laugh:

For example, I was very much into "He-Man" when I was five or so, and while my parents hated it, they allowed it... perhaps because a neighbor boy my age, my best kindergarten buddy, had much more relaxed parents (he was the youngest of four, and I guess his parents had given up the illusion of keeping him away from stuff his older siblings liked) and kind of drew me into it.

I remember my mother would observe me watching TOS when I was seven or so, and complain about Kirk's fistfights ("see? this is what I mean! Why do they always have to fight?"), but I think soon, she was relieved that I would find pretty good role models (in her eyes) in characters like Spock or later Picard: She liked Star Trek more than other American shows. A couple of years later, she'd even sometimes join me watching TNG, as she said "it's so nice the Captain solves the problems with talking!", plus she's very Francophile, so she loved an American show would make a Frenchman captain. :laugh:

My mother also said Picard reminded her of her father. I can't comment first hand, because my grandfather died before I was born, and on pictures I just see a vague resemblence, he was bald too, at any rate.

 

Now as my wife and I have kids too, we are rather lenient about our older daughter's tv consumption. Sure, we do take care it's age appropriate, and that she does not watch too much (when kids don't find the time for other adventures because of tv, that's bad IMO) -- but apart from that, my wife and I agree that attempting to control what kind of stuff a kid is confronted with, is rather pointless. We do hate that "Barbie" show, for example, for its terrible depiction of gender role clichés... but we don't have the illusion that we'll be able to shield or from anything we don't like (or that we even should do that). At latest when her kindergarten friends start with stuff we don't like, we won't stand a chance (unless we become so authoritarian it would be plain cruelty). Better is to guide kids through media, rather than shielding them, IOO. You can still talk with your kid afterwards.

And then, we know so many people our age, some were shielded excessively as kids, yet their character is not better or worse than that of other people... just like we know people who watched all kids of terrible stuff as kids, yet didn't become machos, delinquents and whatnot. In the end, I guess kids will always turn to real life role models, and well understand the difference between reality and fiction very early on. IMO, many parents just overestimate the influence of tv when it comes to shaping their kids. When you offer enough alternatives and tv isn't the only thing your kids have? Some tv won't do harm.

It also seems to me that this caution about tv and kids is a very German thing. (Much like this absurd paranoia about "comics making kids dumb" or "Killerspiele" turning adolescents into school shooters.) Parents of kids who weren't from Germany in our environment never seemed to make much fuss about it and were usually very lenient. On this forum too, some people stated they started watching this or that very early on (like "The A-Team" or "Star Trek" at 4), and as far as I can tell, these posters here don't make the impression on me they were deeply traumatized or wrecks of people. :laugh:

It's a weird thing that very conservative and leftist-alternative German parents meet at this point: Both think tv for kids is from the devil. (When I was a kid, half of the parents in kindergarten were founding members of the Green Party and hated "American violence" on tv allegedly teaching the kids "imperialistic values". But imagine the horror when the only thing you're allowed to watch is Peter Lustig's ecologically aware show, telling you to "switch off" at the end of every episode. :cry:)

Still, there are two shows that stand out and that I did watch/wanted to watch very badly iny my youth.

Remington Steele is the first one. Little me used to watch the show when my mother didn't notice, it definitely fell into her "way too violent" category. I never caught much more than a few episodes, though. Today I finally have all the DVDs and can re-watch it whenever I want.

Later, when I was a teenager, The X Files was my holy grail. I loved the show so much, and I still do, ALL the nostalgia. I had a massive crush on Mulder and David Duchovny, complete with posters and all, but it ultimately went nowhere because there simply wasn't any fandom to talk to - you couldn't just google and join message boards back then. My friends liked the show, sure, but they preferred talking about boy bands or Leonardo DiCaprio. (I know X Files counts only halfway here since the show is running again, but I'm talking about the 90s seasons of the show, not the revival. Heh.)

Yes, the X-Files really are full of 90s nostalgia! I love it. It was a hard time for me back then, and the show was important for me to escape from reality sometimes. Which perhaps is why I am still so fond of it (on top of the fact it's just a brilliant concept for a show and many episodes were absolutely stellar).

One of my best high school buddies pointed me to it, btw. We just had internet those days (we two were the first in our class), and my friend would run an X-Files fan site. IIRC, he was pretty good at it and had quite an online following. I still remember how he and I would talk about the latest episode on ICQ or MIRC (or how that chat software was called) when it was over. :laugh:

Next to Star Trek, the X-Files probably still are the one show with the most nostalgic value for me.

 


Other shows that impressed me in recent years were Breaking Bad (I so found a new OTP right there, Walt/Jesse, anyone) and a short-lived but really good British series about people who used to be zombies but have been cured and are avoided and hated on by society for it and for what they did when they were zombies. Some of them desperately try to "fit in" by wearing contact lenses and painting their skin (they still look like zombies even though they no longer are) and yet end up being hated on anyway as soon as their secret is discovered. Others proudly display their "zombieness" but people avoid them and are afraid they will start biting again any second. You get the usual mob hunting scenes and politicians who promise to "take care of the problem" and rile everyone up, and you get the ones who protect them and argue for their rights and the ones who try to shove them into a "you are no longer human and you will be treated like the freaks that you are" and all. The series is called In The Flesh, and it's a pretty good social commentary, AND it has a pansexual main character AND a gay one who falls in love with that character. In short, has everything I want in a show, but they canceled it after only two seasons and I'm still bitter about this. It's a great idea and a completely new approach towards the zombie genre and I love it for that and I wish it had more seasons because SO GOOD.

This indeed sounds like an intriguing concept. Vaguely reminds me of the social commentary on "True Blood", where vampires have made their existence public and now are fighting for civil rights. It gets an extra twist, because vampire blood is a strong drug for humans, so there also are humans chasing vampires for exploitation. :laugh: But in case of "True Blood", I was disappointed they did not focus on this social commentary more... most of the time, the show did not flesh out this idea, but got left in vampire romance tropes.

Btw, the more I think about it, I can imagine you loving "Six Feet Under". Of course I could be totally wrong... but if you ever watch it, please let me know what you think.

Edited by Sim

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Thanks for the reminder, Mr. Picard.

I need to check out "The Flesh'; I've heard from others that it is a really good show.  I'm sad that it only ran for two seasons, but I still wish to seek it out in spite of that (my video collection is FULL of one-two season wonders). 

I'm going to seek this one out ASAP.

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Sim, I do always have to shrug helplessly when I think of the fact that I was free to watch Tom & Jerry, which, if you just look at the violence that is presented, is FAR WORSE than Remington Steele or ANYTHING else my mother judged as "too violent". I wanted to be a He-Man fan as well, so badly, and I wanted that sword whenever we walked past it in a store in my local village (they had a replica) and I wanted it SO badly, but I wasn't allowed to. The restrictions I faced concerning cartoons were a lot worse for me than the ones with "real" TV shows. I wasn't even allowed to have Turtles or He-Man action figures because they "promoted violence". I watched all the "violent" cartoons at a friends' house, so I didn't miss much in that department, but it certainly was rather unnerving to have my mother after me when I even TRIED to watch the old animated X Men series, which was one of my all time favorites back then (Beast FOR THE WIN!), along with the old TMNT series. Fortunately, everything changed in that regard when I got my own TV when I was about 9 or 10. It still traumatized me, though, and I firmly believe that my love for extremely disgusting horror movies and gore and stuff all comes from the fact that I was shielded way too much from all kinds of "violence" when I was very young. It's the same with my love for McDonald's - I was never allowed to go there either when I was a kid "because it's bad for you", and today I have to force myself to walk past McDonald's - it's like as if I'm a kid again and some weird voice tells me "go in while you still can". Also the same with comic books. I was never allowed to read Donald Duck when I was a kid - "it will make you dumb" - and today I have quite a few Donald Duck comic books, in fact, they're the only comic books I read. Same urge, same feeling, I can never walk past one when I see one. It wasn't even my mother's own idea for the most part, it was my GRANDPARENTS who interfered with everything. They were my mother's parents, and they literally saw no reason whatsoever to face the fact that raising a kid in the 80s was different from raising one in the 60s. They forced the same rules and the same outdated values on me, both directly and through my mother, who basically just followed their instructions and guidance. Many of my friends didn't face any of the restrictions I faced because their grandparents were never as involved in raising them as mine were in raising me.

I still have to finish my Remington Steele DVDs and after that the second Better Call Saul season is waiting for me AND Z-Nations third season, but I promise I will check out Six Feet Under. :)  

 

Thanks for the reminder, Mr. Picard.

I need to check out "The Flesh'; I've heard from others that it is a really good show.  I'm sad that it only ran for two seasons, but I still wish to seek it out in spite of that (my video collection is FULL of one-two season wonders). 

I'm going to seek this one out ASAP.

You definitely won't regret checking out In The Flesh! It can be a little slow sometimes, and it has a few ridiculously silly moments, but that is part of its charm IMO - despite its seriousness, it doesn't fall into the "this series takes itself too seriously" trap. Also don't forget to check out Blunt Talk

 

 

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Thanks for the reminder, Mr. Picard.

I need to check out "The Flesh'; I've heard from others that it is a really good show.  I'm sad that it only ran for two seasons, but I still wish to seek it out in spite of that (my video collection is FULL of one-two season wonders). 

I'm going to seek this one out ASAP.

You definitely won't regret checking out In The Flesh! It can be a little slow sometimes, and it has a few ridiculously silly moments, but that is part of its charm IMO - despite its seriousness, it doesn't fall into the "this series takes itself too seriously" trap. Also don't forget to check out Blunt Talk

^
Will check those--er, that out, as soon as possible.  :giggle:

Haven't watched a whole lot of TV this new year (it's been a wee bit hectic already), but hopefully I'll have accumulated a bit of 'binge time' soon. ;)

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Sim   

Sim, I do always have to shrug helplessly when I think of the fact that I was free to watch Tom & Jerry, which, if you just look at the violence that is presented, is FAR WORSE than Remington Steele or ANYTHING else my mother judged as "too violent".

It's absurd, isn't it? And when I think of the fact my mother had no problem whatsoever reading me "Hänsel und Gretel" when I was even younger, including playing with me "pushing the witch into the oven" and all... :laugh:

I wanted to be a He-Man fan as well, so badly, and I wanted that sword whenever we walked past it in a store in my local village (they had a replica) and I wanted it SO badly, but I wasn't allowed to. The restrictions I faced concerning cartoons were a lot worse for me than the ones with "real" TV shows. I wasn't even allowed to have Turtles or He-Man action figures because they "promoted violence". I watched all the "violent" cartoons at a friends' house, so I didn't miss much in that department, but it certainly was rather unnerving to have my mother after me when I even TRIED to watch the old animated X Men series, which was one of my all time favorites back then (Beast FOR THE WIN!), along with the old TMNT series. Fortunately, everything changed in that regard when I got my own TV when I was about 9 or 10. It still traumatized me, though, and I firmly believe that my love for extremely disgusting horror movies and gore and stuff all comes from the fact that I was shielded way too much from all kinds of "violence" when I was very young. It's the same with my love for McDonald's - I was never allowed to go there either when I was a kid "because it's bad for you", and today I have to force myself to walk past McDonald's - it's like as if I'm a kid again and some weird voice tells me "go in while you still can". Also the same with comic books. I was never allowed to read Donald Duck when I was a kid - "it will make you dumb" - and today I have quite a few Donald Duck comic books, in fact, they're the only comic books I read. Same urge, same feeling, I can never walk past one when I see one. It wasn't even my mother's own idea for the most part, it was my GRANDPARENTS who interfered with everything. They were my mother's parents, and they literally saw no reason whatsoever to face the fact that raising a kid in the 80s was different from raising one in the 60s. They forced the same rules and the same outdated values on me, both directly and through my mother, who basically just followed their instructions and guidance. Many of my friends didn't face any of the restrictions I faced because their grandparents were never as involved in raising them as mine were in raising me.

Oh, I'm really sorry to hear about the restrictions of your childhood... must have been really hard! And yes, I perfectly understand that feeling you describe... I had a similar urge for a while, about McDonald's. That was the one thing my parents were very restrictive about, too: McDonald's was taboo. As it was not just unhealthy, but also "expensive" and "ecologically damaging" (and the perfect symbol for evil "capitalism"). At least I was allowed to watch many shows I liked and reading Disney comics.

Makes you think that it's by far much more damaging for a child, when he or she is constantly forbidden to do all the things his or her pears are allowed to do, for no good or apparent reason, much more damaging than any of this fiction could ever be. At least that's what I'd like to tell some other parents I meet, sometimes (but don't do, because it isn't my business).

Same about candy: My wife's parents were *extremely* restrictive about their kids eating candy or watching tv. On my wife, it had just the opposite effect: The moment she left her mother's house after high school, she became totally tv addicted and ate tons of candy -- she still is and does. Parents should keep in mind that their well-meaning ideas might well backfire big time, once the pressure is gone. My wife is not happy with her eating habits herself, and indeed believes it's mostly due to the restrictions of her childhood.

Maybe you have friends with kids, I don't know, but my wife and I witnessed a very creepy thing about people our age becoming parents: Even some people who used to be very relaxed and liberal, suddenly turn into restrictive, authoritarian control freaks, the moment they have kids. Even some who used to rant against the authoritarianism of their parents only a couple of years ago, suddenly have made a u-turn and say "now I understand, my parents did right with me, it wasn't for my bad". It's frightening, really.

At any rate, we've decided not to become like that, and rather considering our children as little people we are supposed to guide and support into coming of age -- rather than our possession we're allowed or required to "form and shape". Now as I have two little daughters, this "shaping" business even sounds totally cruel to me. Children aren't clay the parents are supposed to turn into expressions of their own "skills" and whims. They are persons, even when they're persons who still need guidance. IMO.

 

I still have to finish my Remington Steele DVDs and after that the second Better Call Saul season is waiting for me AND Z-Nations third season, but I promise I will check out Six Feet Under. :)  

 

Thanks for the reminder, Mr. Picard.

I need to check out "The Flesh'; I've heard from others that it is a really good show.  I'm sad that it only ran for two seasons, but I still wish to seek it out in spite of that (my video collection is FULL of one-two season wonders). 

I'm going to seek this one out ASAP.

You definitely won't regret checking out In The Flesh! It can be a little slow sometimes, and it has a few ridiculously silly moments, but that is part of its charm IMO - despite its seriousness, it doesn't fall into the "this series takes itself too seriously" trap. Also don't forget to check out Blunt Talk

Do you know if "In the Flesh" is available on Netflix or Amazon in Germany?

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maneth   

Thought of a couple of other non-genre shows I used to watch a lot, Tatort and Ein Fall für Zwei (if they count, I'm not sure if they're still making them). For some reason, the German crime shows were on earlier in the evening than the British or American ones were, so I had more opportunities to watch those. That said, we didn't get a TV until I was 15, for no other reason than that my parents thought there wasn't anything worth watching on the box, so I'm a late developer when it comes to TV. (We did have a TV when we lived in the UK when I was 12-13 years old, that's where my Star Trek fandom got its start, from watching reruns of TOS in the mid-1980s.) I happened to see the episode of Dallas where JR was shot (at my grandmother's house), and I literally had nightmares from it for weeks. I also saw ET when I was 10, as a neighbor took me and my sister along with their kids, and I had nightmares from that one as well. My son at 7 has seen everything from Harry Potter and LotR to Star Wars, and from what I can judge he's never had nightmares from anything. That's not to say that age ratings are unnecessary at all, but they should be a guide rather than an absolute thing.

My parents were very strict about candy until they found me and my sister eating sugar when we weren't allowed candy. My son gets candy every now and again (not every day but more than once a week), and he turns it down if he doesn't feel like eating it. I know kids with strict rules about candy, who when they do get it, eat it until they get sick. I think my parents did a good job raising me and my sister, but their candy rule is certainly one that I never even considered implementing.

 

Edited by maneth

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Sim   

Thought of a couple of other non-genre shows I used to watch a lot, Tatort and Ein Fall für Zwei (if they count, I'm not sure if they're still making them). For some reason, the German crime shows were on earlier in the evening than the British or American ones were, so I had more opportunities to watch those.

I think they stopped making "Ein Fall für Zwei" in the early 2010s, after a constant run for more than 30 years. But I have never really seen it (maybe switched through it, though). Guess the main character was rather old by the end! :laugh:

"Tatort" is still a ratings hit, some new episodes are watched by more than 10 million people in Germany. It's the entertainment flagship of the major public channel ARD (Das Erste), and also a kind of "creative lab" both technically, and for German actors -- basically every German actor who gets international fame at some point, had played on "Tatort" in the past (i.e. Sibel Kikelli, who played on "Game of Thrones", is still playing in the Kiel Tatort). Because of its success, they're producing up to 30 new episodes per year now, with a budget of ca. €1.5 million per episode.

But because of the anthology character of "Tatort", I did not include it in my list, although I like to watch it occasionally. There are several regional public stations in Germany, each of them produces their own "Tatort" tv movies with their respective own cast, and they vary very much in style and quality. Many are rather dry police dramas, some are action-oriented (like those from Hamburg), some are crime comedy (from Münster), some even experimental, almost David Lynch-like (those with Ulrich Tukur from Wiesbaden).

For example, I like the Münster comedy very much, but not so much some of the other "Tatorts"... so I wouldn't say I'm a Tatort-fan per se.

 

That said, we didn't get a TV until I was 15, for no other reason than that my parents thought there wasn't anything worth watching on the box, so I'm a late developer when it comes to TV. (We did have a TV when we lived in the UK when I was 12-13 years old, that's where my Star Trek fandom got its start, from watching reruns of TOS in the mid-1980s.) I happened to see the episode of Dallas where JR was shot (at my grandmother's house), and I literally had nightmares from it for weeks. I also saw ET when I was 10, as a neighbor took me and my sister along with their kids, and I had nightmares from that one as well. My son at 7 has seen everything from Harry Potter and LotR to Star Wars, and from what I can judge he's never had nightmares from anything. That's not to say that age ratings are unnecessary at all, but they should be a guide rather than an absolute thing.

Yes, I agree... age ratings are helpful. Our older one is only almost 3, so there are many things she isn't ready for. So far, she always handled stuff rated "6" pretty well. It's also practical I can block stuff on Netflix and Amazon with a certain rating... so once she'll have figured out how to use the remote herself, I don't have to be afraid she'll accidentally watch too unsettling shows. :laugh:

I try to do my best talking with my daughter, if she had seen something on tv that unsettled her... I guess as long as I don't leave her alone with anything, it will be ok. Guess seeing something unsettling, but having someone to talk and for guidance, can ease most problems.

My parents were very strict about candy until they found me and my sister eating sugar when we weren't allowed candy. My son gets candy every now and again (not every day but more than once a week), and he turns it down if he doesn't feel like eating it. I know kids with strict rules about candy, who when they do get it, eat it until they get sick. I think my parents did a good job raising me and my sister, but their candy rule is certainly one that I never even considered implementing.

 

My wife found an article and a video about a (Dutch, IIRC) study conducted with kids, where kids were offered both fruits/vegetables and candy... and it turned out, when the kids were totally free to eat what they like, it would soon reach a 50/50 ratio. But kids who were denied candy ate all the more the moment they were given the chance.

So this effect has apparently even been proven scientifically! :thumbup:

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Do you know if "In the Flesh" is available on Netflix or Amazon in Germany?

No idea, I don't use either. I do remember that I bought the DVDs from Amazon UK, though.

 

 

Maybe you have friends with kids, I don't know, but my wife and I witnessed a very creepy thing about people our age becoming parents: Even some people who used to be very relaxed and liberal, suddenly turn into restrictive, authoritarian control freaks, the moment they have kids. Even some who used to rant against the authoritarianism of their parents only a couple of years ago, suddenly have made a u-turn and say "now I understand, my parents did right with me, it wasn't for my bad". It's frightening, really.

I stay away from real life people my age who have kids (and from real life people in general, lol, but especially from the ones with kids), I have found out that I have literally nothing in common with them and that it's incredibly awkward because the only thing I can do when they talk about their kids is listen, sit and shrug. Their lives are so different from mine usually that it just doesn't lead anywhere. Their lives revolve around their kids, mine revolve around an actor and a fictional character. It's like a different universe. I don't like kids at all in the first place, but I do know that the last thing on my mind would be to put the same kinds of restrictions on the table that I had to endure. I was messed up by my parents and grandparents in many, many ways, and I become FURIOUS when I see others doing similiar things to their kids. It's not my place indeed to say something, though, which is another reason why I simply stay away. All I can do is shake my head at some of the things... for example, a former co-worker of mine had the EXACT same "no McDonald's rule" for her kid that I had to endure. And she was PROUD of it, proud of how she would forbid her daughter to go there because "it's bad food". I tried to tell her that the kid's probably gonna LIVE at McDonald's when she's older and can do what she wants, but she wouldn't listen. I'm not advocating taking kids to McDonald's every week, not at all, but I'd introduce it as a special treat, something that isn't done all the time, and who knows, some kids never develop a taste for it. Some like it, others don't. But it makes no sense whatsoever to deny them the experience altogether.

 

It's absurd, isn't it? And when I think of the fact my mother had no problem whatsoever reading me "Hänsel und Gretel" when I was even younger, including playing with me "pushing the witch into the oven" and all... :laugh:

I was encouraged to read from a very young age (one of the things that my grandparents did right) and fairytales were a BIG thing for me as well. The messed up ones indeed, the typical German horror fairytales about what happens when you're lazy and when you don't eat up, and all the others with witches in ovens and wolves eating lambs and how these lambs are "freed" later, yeah. THAT was never too violent, apparently. It still baffles me how this kind of horror story is seen as "educational" but a show in which people have a simple fistfight or threaten others with a gun is seen as "violent". My grandparents and my mother would literally buy me ANY book for kids, no matter how many violent scenes it had (and some kids books have plenty), but HEAVEN FORBID there was even a HINT at violence on TV.

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kc1966   

No particular order.

When I was a child 

1. Combat with Victor Mature Vic Morrow

2. Bonanza

3. Gunsmoke

4. Daniel Boone

(I always tell my students that one thing that helped shaped my love of history, besides family, was that so much entertainment back then had some sort of historical tie-in.)

Teenage - Adult

5. M*A*S*H

6. Dallas (Sorry but I admit it - I was hooked by this show)

7. West Wing

(These shows helped shape some of my political outlook and made me more an Eisenhower/moderate conservative - government isn't always right,  Compassion has to be outside the church and sometimes it requires a large public institution.) 

Recent

8. Warehouse 13

9. Person of Interest

10. Num3ers

(Individuals can make a difference if they attempt to live up to their code.)

Honorable Mentions - These violate Sims guidelines or they would have been in my 10.

Designated Survivor

Blue Bloods

NCIS

(Honor is important.)

 

Edited by kc1966

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Reading all the lists and commentary serves to highlight how little episodic television I have actually watched outside of the Trek universe.  Here is about all that comes to mind

Babylon 5 - still my favorite series of all time

The West Wing - watched on Netflix within the last 5 years and really enjoyed the whole ride.

Star Talk - Neil DeGrasse Tyson's TV show on National Geographic

The Colbert Report - continuously brilliant satire by Stephen Colbert

The Late Show - Latter day Colbert

Rachel Maddow - progressive political commentary.  I actually stopped watching within the last couple of years because of her irritating repetitiveness.

Twilight Zone - still haven't seen all episodes

Grace and Frankie - current Netflix series starring Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin

There may be more but nothing leaps off the keyboard.

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Reading all the lists and commentary serves to highlight how little episodic television I have actually watched outside of the Trek universe.  Here is about all that comes to mind

Babylon 5 - still my favorite series of all time

The West Wing - watched on Netflix within the last 5 years and really enjoyed the whole ride.

Star Talk - Neil DeGrasse Tyson's TV show on National Geographic

The Colbert Report - continuously brilliant satire by Stephen Colbert

The Late Show - Latter day Colbert

Rachel Maddow - progressive political commentary.  I actually stopped watching within the last couple of years because of her irritating repetitiveness.

Twilight Zone - still haven't seen all episodes

Grace and Frankie - current Netflix series starring Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin

There may be more but nothing leaps off the keyboard.

I love Rachel Maddow.  

I know she has too much integrity, but I wish she'd run for public office.:thumbup:

I also enjoy Star Talk (but isn't that one still in production?  Hope it's not been cancelled...).

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Reading all the lists and commentary serves to highlight how little episodic television I have actually watched outside of the Trek universe.  Here is about all that comes to mind

Babylon 5 - still my favorite series of all time

The West Wing - watched on Netflix within the last 5 years and really enjoyed the whole ride.

Star Talk - Neil DeGrasse Tyson's TV show on National Geographic

The Colbert Report - continuously brilliant satire by Stephen Colbert

The Late Show - Latter day Colbert

Rachel Maddow - progressive political commentary.  I actually stopped watching within the last couple of years because of her irritating repetitiveness.

Twilight Zone - still haven't seen all episodes

Grace and Frankie - current Netflix series starring Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin

There may be more but nothing leaps off the keyboard.

I love Rachel Maddow.  

I know she has too much integrity, but I wish she'd run for public office.:thumbup:

I also enjoy Star Talk (but isn't that one still in production?  Hope it's not been cancelled...).

Just need to get off your duff and start watching The West Wing one of these days. ;)

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Reading all the lists and commentary serves to highlight how little episodic television I have actually watched outside of the Trek universe.  Here is about all that comes to mind

Babylon 5 - still my favorite series of all time

The West Wing - watched on Netflix within the last 5 years and really enjoyed the whole ride.

Star Talk - Neil DeGrasse Tyson's TV show on National Geographic

The Colbert Report - continuously brilliant satire by Stephen Colbert

The Late Show - Latter day Colbert

Rachel Maddow - progressive political commentary.  I actually stopped watching within the last couple of years because of her irritating repetitiveness.

Twilight Zone - still haven't seen all episodes

Grace and Frankie - current Netflix series starring Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin

There may be more but nothing leaps off the keyboard.

I love Rachel Maddow.  

I know she has too much integrity, but I wish she'd run for public office.:thumbup:

I also enjoy Star Talk (but isn't that one still in production?  Hope it's not been cancelled...).

Just need to get off your duff and start watching The West Wing one of these days. ;)

That's another one on my bucket list.   I've seen a few random episodes over the years and enjoyed what I saw, but I've not yet given it the time/attention I know it deserves.

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Sim   

No particular order.

When I was a child 

1. Combat with Victor Mature

2. Bonanza

3. Gunsmoke

4. Daniel Boone

(I always tell my students that one thing that helped shaped my love of history, besides family, was that so much entertainment back then had some sort of historical tie-in.)

Teenage - Adult

5. M*A*S*H

6. Dallas (Sorry but I admit it - I was hooked by this show)

7. West Wing

(These shows helped shape some of my political outlook and made me more an Eisenhower/moderate conservative - government isn't always right,  Compassion has to be outside the church and sometimes it requires a large public institution.) 

Recent

8. Warehouse 13

9. Person of Interest

10. Num3ers

(Individuals can make a difference if they attempt to live up to their code.)

Honorable Mentions - These violate Sims guidelines or they would have been in my 10.

Designated Survivor

Blue Bloods

NCIS

(Honor is important.)

Interesting list!

I've never heard of Victor Mature or Daniel Boone, but I've seen a couple of "Bonanza" reruns as a kid. Of course it's iconic, not least that music! *humming* :laugh:

The "West Wing" is a show I've heard quite a few good things about, but I guess in the current state of American and world politics, it would rather depress than entertain me. I can only imagine this show shows how things *should* be in politics, all the more pointing to the sad fact they aren't (anymore?).

My wife has watched "Warehouse 13" (and "Eureka") too, so I caught a couple of episodes. It's with the actor who played Kivas Fajo on TNG, right? And Brent Spiner has a guest appearance. Looked like a show that's fun, but I haven't really found into it. It's one of these shows which are "my wife's shows".

"Designated Survivor" is a show I started watching recently (it's exclusive on Netflix in Germany), and find it very entertaining, albeit the clichés are rather thick. So perhaps not a very inspired, but *very* effective show, IMO: Take out the popcorn! :laugh: And I like Kiefer Sutherland. Can't wait for the solution to the cliffhanger! But since I've only seen half of the first season so far, I can't tell yet if I'll stay with the show on the long run.

Reading all the lists and commentary serves to highlight how little episodic television I have actually watched outside of the Trek universe.  Here is about all that comes to mind

Babylon 5 - still my favorite series of all time

The West Wing - watched on Netflix within the last 5 years and really enjoyed the whole ride.

Star Talk - Neil DeGrasse Tyson's TV show on National Geographic

The Colbert Report - continuously brilliant satire by Stephen Colbert

The Late Show - Latter day Colbert

Rachel Maddow - progressive political commentary.  I actually stopped watching within the last couple of years because of her irritating repetitiveness.

Twilight Zone - still haven't seen all episodes

Grace and Frankie - current Netflix series starring Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin

There may be more but nothing leaps off the keyboard.

As I'm not American, I've never really seen Colbert Report, Late Show or Rachel Maddow, only a few clips on YouTube here and there. I assume many allusions would escape me.

But you remind me to include a similar German show: Die Heute-Show (on ZDF public channel) is a weekly German political satire show inspired by the American "Daily Show" and similar formats. Some weeks are better than others, and they aptly mix totally silly humor with smarter jokes, but usually, I enjoy it. More often than not, an episode will feature at least one joke that makes me roll on the floor laughing. ;)

Edited by Sim

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Sim   

My favorite childhood shows were THE INCREDIBLE HULK starring Bill Bixby, BIONIC WOMAN starring Lindsay Wagner, WONDER WOMAN starring Lynda Carter and SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN starring Lee Majors

In a lesser degree, THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, BATTLESTAR GALACTICA and BUCK ROGERS IN THE 25th CENTURY, still good stuff

The 70s rule !

Gus

I have never seen most of these shows: Back in the 80s, there were only two big national private channels in Germany, and my parents' tv (via antenna!) only received one of them: The one that had Star Trek. All these other shows were on the other channel we didn't receive. :laugh:

And by the early 90s, when we finally got cable, there were no longer reruns of these shows you mention.

Except "Buck Rogers": I remember I have fond memories of a summer holiday, I think it was 1990 or 1991, when there was a rerun of Buck Rogers and I watched it with a passion. :)

IMO they're all good, but the best place to start is the original show, SG-1. It's fairly heavily referenced in the other shows, especially SGA, because the two shows ran concrrently for three years. Or rather, you should really start with the 1994 movie starring Kurt Russell. SG-1 is, despite its occasionally depressing themes, basically a light-hearted show. SGA is a bit more serious, but the humor still shows through quite often.

SGU is a different animal altogether: a group of civilian scientists and their military guardians/protectors who get stranded on an ancient ship that's fast running out of resources and barely holding together, in an alien galaxy where the mutually hostile factions must work together to survive. It is at times very dark, but that's as it should be given the scenario. It's what Voyager could have been, if the writers had been a bit more adventurous.

 

I agree that the movie and SG-1 are worth watching.  I didn't like the later seasons of SG-1, at least the episodes that I saw.  Nor did I really take much to Stargate: Atlantis for some reason.

I think you could jump into Stargate Universe without watching them though because it is such a different setup and setting.  There are references to the other series, but none that should really require you to watch its predecessors.

I enjoyed Richard Dean Anderson's sarcastic character in SG-1 which brought more levity to the original tv series.  Stargate Universe is much more serious in tone, but I think it worked well.  

Its abrupt cancellation left a lot more story to tell, unfortunately.

Hm, maybe I'm going to take a look into Stargate at some point. But for the time being, there are so many other shows on my list ... but hey, maybe it ages well, like good wine or cheese. :laugh:

At any rate, I guess Richard Dean Anderson might be a plus, since I loved MacGyver as a kid.

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maneth   

I loved MacGyver as a kid too, and have enjoyed introducing our son to the show. He seems to like it, although he's not quite a fast enough reader yet, so we have to read the subtitles. Thank the deity of your choice, I've never had to endure the horror that is dubbing. Kids' shows are dubbed, but most things rated 7 or above aren't. Certainly nothing rated 12 or above is dubbed.

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Sim   

I loved MacGyver as a kid too, and have enjoyed introducing our son to the show. He seems to like it, although he's not quite a fast enough reader yet, so we have to read the subtitles. Thank the deity of your choice, I've never had to endure the horror that is dubbing. Kids' shows are dubbed, but most things rated 7 or above aren't. Certainly nothing rated 12 or above is dubbed.

Has the amazing advantage that kids in your country quickly learn (good) English! :thumbup: It's the same for a family of very good Dutch friends of mine. Perhaps that is why you northern people speak better English than the native speakers. :laugh:

And of course, dubbing impairs the original art, may even destroy it. It's always a reinterpretation, rather than a mere translation <-- all right and true.

But I still want to defend dubbing here: There is nothing like watching a movie or series in the same tongue your mom and dad first addressed you with, from the cradle on. For me, that allows an emotional attachment on a very basic level, and no matter how well I understand a foreign language, it's never quite the same.

Add to that, that unless you master the original language, subtitles destroy the original experience just the same: I miss ca. 50% of the action on the screen, because I'm busy reading subtitles, or at least can't focus on the actors as much as I could, if I didn't have to read subs. That way, I miss at least as much of the original art, as I would if I didn't hear the original voice. Especially when you're tired and just want to relax, subtitles are a no-go.

And finally, if done well, dubbing is a legitimate art form on its own. Just like translating literature. It requires talent from the voice actors and translators. Since I grew up with audio plays (they were all the rage among German kids in the 80s), I have learnt to appreciate this form of art. And I am fond of a couple of voice actors, who IMO do a really good job.

But yeah, most German dubbings of tv shows are mass production things these days; technically decent, but totally uninspired. So I too often prefer watching the original version, when it's English.

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maneth   

For me, the lips and voice being out of sync completely destroys the experience. I can deal with it if it's animation, where lip sync is approximate at best anyway, but live action? Yuck! I tried to watch The X-files and Babylon 5 dubbed into Spanish when I lived there, but I just couldn't do it. But then, I'm a fast reader so I have plenty of time to concentrate both on the reading and the actors' faces. The Muppet Show taught me to read faster than anything else could, way back when.

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For me, the lips and voice being out of sync completely destroys the experience. I can deal with it if it's animation, where lip sync is approximate at best anyway, but live action? Yuck! I tried to watch The X-files and Babylon 5 dubbed into Spanish when I lived there, but I just couldn't do it. But then, I'm a fast reader so I have plenty of time to concentrate both on the reading and the actors' faces. The Muppet Show taught me to read faster than anything else could, way back when.

The only times I'll settle for dubbing are when I'm watching my cheesy older Godzilla or other keiju-eiga movies.  The out-of-sync lip movements kind of add to the overall cheesiness of the movies themselves.  But with the newer Godzilla movies (1984 onward)?  I prefer subtitled.

There's just something about hearing a movie/TV show in the native language (even if I don't speak/understand it) that adds to the overall cultural feel of a foreign movie/TV series.   I much prefer that feeling than hearing Bronx or Southern accents coming out of Japanese or German actors.  

So for me, preferring subtitles is not so much a purity issue as it is enjoying that sense of cultural immersion.

Sadly, I don't watch too many foreign TV shows (other than British; but no real language barrier there, so...), though I would like  to track down a DVD copy of the original Swedish version of the TV series "Humans" ("Real Humans") soon. 

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Sim   

Maybe dubbing in other countries is of a technically lower quality than in Germany, or it's a matter of habit, but I don't even notice a lack of lip/voice synch in German dubbings (very rare exceptions notwithstanding). At any rate, it virtually never occurs in German dubbings that the voice says something, while the mouth is closed and vice versa -- and I can't read lips. :laugh:

Or it's just because I grew up with dubbing that I'm just used to it.

And yes, there is certainly an argument to be made about cultural immersion, and how local/regional accents cannot be translated in most cases. That's true.

It's a no-win-scenario at any rate, IMO, it's always a trade-off between authenticity on one side, and intelligibility and convenience on the other.

Fortunately, most shows or movies I consume are originally in English, and that's a foreign language I more or less understand, so I'm glad I can turn to the original version -- especially since both language tracks, plus subs, are available on DVDs, BDs and Netflix. So I can choose whatever option whenever I feel like it. :)

 

For nostalgic reasons, I prefer the German dubbing of TOS and the X-Files, but when I watch TNG, DS9 or ENT, I usually prefer the original English version. Especially Patrick Stewart in German is ... insufficient, to say the least. :laugh:

Depending on my degree of alertness, I often choose original English with subtitles for new shows with lots of slang.

 

Sadly, I don't watch too many foreign TV shows (other than British; but no real language barrier there, so...), though I would like  to track down a DVD copy of the original Swedish version of the TV series "Humans" ("Real Humans") soon. 

Btw, I suspect you might be intrigued by the German 1965 SF show "Raumpatrouille Orion".

Like in case of Babylon 5/DS9, there is quite some dispute if "Orion" is a TOS rip-off, or if it was conceived independently -- but at any rate, the similarities are striking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raumpatrouille_–_Die_phantastischen_Abenteuer_des_Raumschiffes_Orion

The show is in black/white, and only one season with 7 episodes was produced, unfortunately. And I don't know if it was ever marketed on DVD internationally, with subs and all. But around 2000, they recut material from a couple of episodes into a movie ("Rampatrouille Orion -- Rücksturz ins Kino"), and I know at least this movie is available with English subs.

 

Edited by Sim

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Locutus   

 

 

IMO they're all good, but the best place to start is the original show, SG-1. It's fairly heavily referenced in the other shows, especially SGA, because the two shows ran concrrently for three years. Or rather, you should really start with the 1994 movie starring Kurt Russell. SG-1 is, despite its occasionally depressing themes, basically a light-hearted show. SGA is a bit more serious, but the humor still shows through quite often.

SGU is a different animal altogether: a group of civilian scientists and their military guardians/protectors who get stranded on an ancient ship that's fast running out of resources and barely holding together, in an alien galaxy where the mutually hostile factions must work together to survive. It is at times very dark, but that's as it should be given the scenario. It's what Voyager could have been, if the writers had been a bit more adventurous.

 

I agree that the movie and SG-1 are worth watching.  I didn't like the later seasons of SG-1, at least the episodes that I saw.  Nor did I really take much to Stargate: Atlantis for some reason.

I think you could jump into Stargate Universe without watching them though because it is such a different setup and setting.  There are references to the other series, but none that should really require you to watch its predecessors.

I enjoyed Richard Dean Anderson's sarcastic character in SG-1 which brought more levity to the original tv series.  Stargate Universe is much more serious in tone, but I think it worked well.  

Its abrupt cancellation left a lot more story to tell, unfortunately.

Hm, maybe I'm going to take a look into Stargate at some point. But for the time being, there are so many other shows on my list ... but hey, maybe it ages well, like good wine or cheese. :laugh:

At any rate, I guess Richard Dean Anderson might be a plus, since I loved MacGyver as a kid.

There aren't many sci-fi shows that had as much staying power as Stargate.  For that reason alone, it is worth looking into.  It's a massive franchise with over 350 episodes between three series over 17 years.  I'd probably cherry pick what I watched and just poke around for lists of good episodes online.  I can't say I really care for the militarism of the whole series, which leads to a lot more "pew! pew! pew!" than Star Trek, but it has its moments.  In retrospect, I probably liked Stargate: Universe more because it had more of the civilian elements and showed the contrast between civilian/science and military interests.

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kc1966   

No particular order.

When I was a child 

1. Combat with Victor Mature

2. Bonanza

3. Gunsmoke

4. Daniel Boone

(I always tell my students that one thing that helped shaped my love of history, besides family, was that so much entertainment back then had some sort of historical tie-in.)

Teenage - Adult

5. M*A*S*H

6. Dallas (Sorry but I admit it - I was hooked by this show)

7. West Wing

(These shows helped shape some of my political outlook and made me more an Eisenhower/moderate conservative - government isn't always right,  Compassion has to be outside the church and sometimes it requires a large public institution.) 

Recent

8. Warehouse 13

9. Person of Interest

10. Num3ers

(Individuals can make a difference if they attempt to live up to their code.)

Honorable Mentions - These violate Sims guidelines or they would have been in my 10.

Designated Survivor

Blue Bloods

NCIS

(Honor is important.)

Interesting list!

I've never heard of Victor Mature or Daniel Boone, but I've seen a couple of "Bonanza" reruns as a kid. Of course it's iconic, not least that music! *humming* :laugh:

The "West Wing" is a show I've heard quite a few good things about, but I guess in the current state of American and world politics, it would rather depress than entertain me. I can only imagine this show shows how things *should* be in politics, all the more pointing to the sad fact they aren't (anymore?).

My wife has watched "Warehouse 13" (and "Eureka") too, so I caught a couple of episodes. It's with the actor who played Kivas Fajo on TNG, right? And Brent Spiner has a guest appearance. Looked like a show that's fun, but I haven't really found into it. It's one of these shows which are "my wife's shows".

"Designated Survivor" is a show I started watching recently (it's exclusive on Netflix in Germany), and find it very entertaining, albeit the clichés are rather thick. So perhaps not a very inspired, but *very* effective show, IMO: Take out the popcorn! :laugh: And I like Kiefer Sutherland. Can't wait for the solution to the cliffhanger! But since I've only seen half of the first season so far, I can't tell yet if I'll stay with the show on the long run.

Reading all the lists and commentary serves to highlight how little episodic television I have actually watched outside of the Trek universe.  Here is about all that comes to mind

Babylon 5 - still my favorite series of all time

The West Wing - watched on Netflix within the last 5 years and really enjoyed the whole ride.

Star Talk - Neil DeGrasse Tyson's TV show on National Geographic

The Colbert Report - continuously brilliant satire by Stephen Colbert

The Late Show - Latter day Colbert

Rachel Maddow - progressive political commentary.  I actually stopped watching within the last couple of years because of her irritating repetitiveness.

Twilight Zone - still haven't seen all episodes

Grace and Frankie - current Netflix series starring Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin

There may be more but nothing leaps off the keyboard.

As I'm not American, I've never really seen Colbert Report, Late Show or Rachel Maddow, only a few clips on YouTube here and there. I assume many allusions would escape me.

But you remind me to include a similar German show: Die Heute-Show (on ZDF public channel) is a weekly German political satire show inspired by the American "Daily Show" and similar formats. Some weeks are better than others, and they aptly mix totally silly humor with smarter jokes, but usually, I enjoy it. More often than not, an episode will feature at least one joke that makes me roll on the floor laughing. ;)

I got Vic Morrow and Victor Mature (movie actor) confused.  Combat was a series set during WWII following a US infantry division fighting the dirty Germ,,,,er,,,, never mind..

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Sim   

No particular order.

When I was a child 

1. Combat with Victor Mature

2. Bonanza

3. Gunsmoke

4. Daniel Boone

(I always tell my students that one thing that helped shaped my love of history, besides family, was that so much entertainment back then had some sort of historical tie-in.)

Teenage - Adult

5. M*A*S*H

6. Dallas (Sorry but I admit it - I was hooked by this show)

7. West Wing

(These shows helped shape some of my political outlook and made me more an Eisenhower/moderate conservative - government isn't always right,  Compassion has to be outside the church and sometimes it requires a large public institution.) 

Recent

8. Warehouse 13

9. Person of Interest

10. Num3ers

(Individuals can make a difference if they attempt to live up to their code.)

Honorable Mentions - These violate Sims guidelines or they would have been in my 10.

Designated Survivor

Blue Bloods

NCIS

(Honor is important.)

Interesting list!

I've never heard of Victor Mature or Daniel Boone, but I've seen a couple of "Bonanza" reruns as a kid. Of course it's iconic, not least that music! *humming* :laugh:

The "West Wing" is a show I've heard quite a few good things about, but I guess in the current state of American and world politics, it would rather depress than entertain me. I can only imagine this show shows how things *should* be in politics, all the more pointing to the sad fact they aren't (anymore?).

My wife has watched "Warehouse 13" (and "Eureka") too, so I caught a couple of episodes. It's with the actor who played Kivas Fajo on TNG, right? And Brent Spiner has a guest appearance. Looked like a show that's fun, but I haven't really found into it. It's one of these shows which are "my wife's shows".

"Designated Survivor" is a show I started watching recently (it's exclusive on Netflix in Germany), and find it very entertaining, albeit the clichés are rather thick. So perhaps not a very inspired, but *very* effective show, IMO: Take out the popcorn! :laugh: And I like Kiefer Sutherland. Can't wait for the solution to the cliffhanger! But since I've only seen half of the first season so far, I can't tell yet if I'll stay with the show on the long run.

Reading all the lists and commentary serves to highlight how little episodic television I have actually watched outside of the Trek universe.  Here is about all that comes to mind

Babylon 5 - still my favorite series of all time

The West Wing - watched on Netflix within the last 5 years and really enjoyed the whole ride.

Star Talk - Neil DeGrasse Tyson's TV show on National Geographic

The Colbert Report - continuously brilliant satire by Stephen Colbert

The Late Show - Latter day Colbert

Rachel Maddow - progressive political commentary.  I actually stopped watching within the last couple of years because of her irritating repetitiveness.

Twilight Zone - still haven't seen all episodes

Grace and Frankie - current Netflix series starring Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin

There may be more but nothing leaps off the keyboard.

As I'm not American, I've never really seen Colbert Report, Late Show or Rachel Maddow, only a few clips on YouTube here and there. I assume many allusions would escape me.

But you remind me to include a similar German show: Die Heute-Show (on ZDF public channel) is a weekly German political satire show inspired by the American "Daily Show" and similar formats. Some weeks are better than others, and they aptly mix totally silly humor with smarter jokes, but usually, I enjoy it. More often than not, an episode will feature at least one joke that makes me roll on the floor laughing. ;)

I got Vic Morrow and Victor Mature (movie actor) confused.  Combat was a series set during WWII following a US infantry division fighting the dirty Germ,,,,er,,,, never mind..

:laugh:

Well, if the AFD takes over the government some day, maybe we'll need him again... :cry:

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So many. I'll try to categorize;

50's-60's-The Munsters, Addams Family, Gilligan's Island, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, The Lone Ranger, The Big Valley, Bonanza, The Outer Limits, Twilight Zone, Superman, Lost in Space.

70's-Six Million Dollar Man, The Bionic Woman, Incredible Hulk, Dukes of Hazzard, Dallas, Happy Days, Laverne and Shirley, All in the Family/Archie Bunker's Place, Alice, The Love Boat, Fantasy Island, Gunsmoke (I know it started in 60's), Mork and Mindy, Battlestar Galactica, Buck Rogers, The Jeffersons, Three's Company, Barnaby Jones, Logan's Run, Taxi, Barney Miller, Mary Tyler Moore, Wonder Woman, Shazam/Isis, Ark 2, Space Academy, Blake's 7.

Probably forgot some.

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