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Which (older) non-Trek tv shows impressed you?

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Posted (edited)

Since most of us probably watch non-Trek tv shows too, I'd like to know which of such shows you watched in the past impressed you most. Are there shows you still vividly remember after years or decades? Only criterion: The show must no longer be running. :)

 

Guess my lists would be something like that:

Non-genre drama, no cartoons or sitcoms:

1. Six Feet Under (2001-2005, HBO) <- I'd say this is definitely the best show of them all, if I factor out nostalgia

2. Breaking Bad (2008-2013, AMC) <- very, very close second

3. The Sopranos (1999-2007, HBO) <- perhaps a bit less sophisticated than The Wire, but more emotionally engaging

4. The Wire (2002-2008, HBO) <- outstanding, very complex show on various levels, but at times a bit dry

5. Cracker (the UK original, 1993-1995, ITV) <- one of the best psychological crime dramas I've seen, plus amazing Robbie Coltrane

6. Liebling Kreuzberg (German law dramedy, 1986-1998, ARD) <- hilarious dialogues and charming acting, plus lots of (West-)Berlin nostalgia

7. Dexter (2006-2013, Showtime) <- more uneven than the shows above, but still very entertaining

Honorable mention:

Profit (1996, FOX) <- Dexter's older brother! But cancelled before he even really started.

Nip/Tuck (2003-2010, FX) <- FX mimicking HBO works half of the time

Rome (2005-2007, HBO) <- amazing historical drama, but ended too early

Big Love (2006-2011, HBO) <- slightly creepy drama about a polygamist mormon family; decent, though the first three seasons are a bit slow at times

Mad Men (2007-2015, AMC) <- I wasn't alive in the 60s yet, so I guess much of the nostalgia escapes me; still decent drama

Boardwalk Empire (2010-2014, HBO) <- basically "Sopranos in the 20s" with less humor

 

Genre shows:

1. The X-Files (original run 1993-2002, FOX) <- massive 90s nostalgia, perhaps even more than grunge music, paint me guilty!

2. Millennium (1996-1999, FOX) <- if it weren't for the mediocre 3rd season and lack of a real ending, this show might take spot #1

3. Battlestar Galactica (2003-2009, SciFi) <- still the yardstick for new SF shows, IMO

4. The Twilight Zone (1959-1964) <- no need to say much about this classic

5. The Tripods (1984-1985, BBC) <- the first SF series I ever watched as a kid, low production values but charming

6. Doctor Who (original run 1963-1989, BBC) <- totally cheesy at times, but incredibly charming

7. Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1997-2003, WB) <- 90s nostalgia haunts me again!

8. Belphégor (French mystery, 1965) <- a most peculiar, very French little gem of a 60s mystery series situated in Paris

9. The Prisoner (1967-1968, ITV) <- a mind-**** of a series, James Bond on a bad acid trip

10. True Blood (2008-2014, HBO) <- basically "Buffy for adults", could be higher on the list if it was less uneven

Honorable mention:

Raumpatrouille Orion (German SF series, 1965) <- TOS's German half-sibling

Kolchak (1974-1975, ABC) <- very charming X-Files precursor, but cancelled too early

Twin Peaks (1990-1991, ABC) <- didn't really go anywhere in the end, but still intriguing

Babylon 5 (1993-1998) <- DS9 counterpart that's IMO overrated, but still a decent 90s SF show

Lost (2004-2010, ABC) <- a real page turner of a show, even if it didn't really go anywhere in the end

Torchwood (2006-2011, BBC) <- could be higher on the list, if the first two seasons weren't so dull

Fringe (2008-2013, FOX) <- a remix of known ideas and genre tropes that almost feels fresh; not the best show, but decent

 

I'm sure I've forgotton something. And a couple of shows that are still running could probably join this list, once they're finished (looking at Doctor Who, Game of Thrones, Sherlock or Better Call Saul...).

I've deliberately ignored mini-serieses, anthologies or tv movies, as well as sitcoms or cartoons (guess that would make things too complicated :P ).

What about you?

Edited by Sim

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I'll stick with genre shows, at least for now:

Babylon 5 (1993-1998) - In spite of the at times cheesy acting and aged FX, it remains one of my all-time favorite shows in any genre. And it was pitched to Paramount before DS9 got its start, even if it was broadcast slightly later. It just took longer to produce B5 due to budget constraints. I guess the two shows just caught the zeitgeist, the time was ripe for shows set on a space station and we got two.

Battlestar Galactica - (2003-2008) I also count the miniseries. It's intense, especially if you watch it as a long movie and a great intro to the show itself.

Stargate SG-1 (1997-2007) - One of my favorites, even if the latter seasons with Ben Browder pretty much count as a mini-spinoff.

Farscape (1999-2003) - Fantastic chemistry between the cast members - including some puppets that you forget were puppets. A quirky, weird and wonderful show.

Stargate Atlantis (2004-2009) - Set in a different galaxy and with mostly different characters, I have fond memories of this show, even though I profoundly disliked a couple of characters.

Firefly (2002-2003) - Too bad this wonderfully weird show only got one season and a feature-length TV movie to complete the story.

Stargate Universe (2009-2011) - A dark show in comparison with the other two in the franchise. This one was canceled just as it got going.

Andromeda (2000-2007) - A show heartily disliked by many, but I remain fond of it. To be fair, I saw it on DVD just after it had been broadcast and haven't done a rewatch in about 8 years.

Honorable mentions:

The X-files (1993-2002). My husband and I are currently rewatching this show, about halfway through the first season. It got a strong start, but we'll see how I feel when we get to season 7 or 8. As far as I remember, this was about the time the show jumped the shark.

Twin Peaks (1990-1991) - I just hope the season they're currently producing will complete the story in a sensible manner.

Lost (2004-2010) - Or in my case, the first two seasons. I completely lost interest (pun intended) a few episodes into the third season. I wanted answers, not just more questions. But the first two seasons were brilliant.

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Posted (edited)

First, a few disclaimers.  My criteria for the list are basically shows that I watched virtually every episode I could catch because I liked them so very much at the time.  I'm not sure I would say they "impressed" me because some are more like guilty pleasures.  They are in roughly the age order that I fell in love with them.  Age is an important factor too in my mind because some haven't exactly survived the test of time (I'm talking to you Hannibal and Mr. T).  Without further ado ...

1)  The A-Team (age 4)

2)  Cheers (age 8)

3)  Seinfeld (age 8)

4)  Homicide:  Life on the Street (age 11)

5)  MASH (age 12)

6)  The Sopranos (age 17)

7)  Battlestar Galactica (age 22)

8)  Breaking Bad (age 26)

9)  Stargate: Universe (age 27)

My honorable mentions would probably include some other sitcoms like Frasier, Everybody Loves Raymond, and Roseanne.  I watched a fair amount of The Simpsons and Boston Legal too.  The Simpsons has fallen away but I used to watch a lot of that early on.  In terms of other genre shows, I also liked the X-Files and Stargate SG-1, but never really watched those religiously.  I did watch most of the first five seasons of SG-1 when I was in my early 20s.  That led me to Stargate: Universe, which was cancelled prematurely in my opinion.

Current favorites include Game of Thrones, Better Call Saul, Stranger Things, Sherlock, High Maintenance, Insecure, and Westworld. 

 

Edited by Locutus

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I'll stick with genre shows, at least for now:

Babylon 5 (1993-1998) - In spite of the at times cheesy acting and aged FX, it remains one of my all-time favorite shows in any genre. And it was pitched to Paramount before DS9 got its start, even if it was broadcast slightly later. It just took longer to produce B5 due to budget constraints. I guess the two shows just caught the zeitgeist, the time was ripe for shows set on a space station and we got two.

Battlestar Galactica - (2003-2008) I also count the miniseries. It's intense, especially if you watch it as a long movie and a great intro to the show itself.

Stargate SG-1 (1997-2007) - One of my favorites, even if the latter seasons with Ben Browder pretty much count as a mini-spinoff.

Farscape (1999-2003) - Fantastic chemistry between the cast members - including some puppets that you forget were puppets. A quirky, weird and wonderful show.

Stargate Atlantis (2004-2009) - Set in a different galaxy and with mostly different characters, I have fond memories of this show, even though I profoundly disliked a couple of characters.

Firefly (2002-2003) - Too bad this wonderfully weird show only got one season and a feature-length TV movie to complete the story.

Stargate Universe (2009-2011) - A dark show in comparison with the other two in the franchise. This one was canceled just as it got going.

Andromeda (2000-2007) - A show heartily disliked by many, but I remain fond of it. To be fair, I saw it on DVD just after it had been broadcast and haven't done a rewatch in about 8 years.

Honorable mentions:

The X-files (1993-2002). My husband and I are currently rewatching this show, about halfway through the first season. It got a strong start, but we'll see how I feel when we get to season 7 or 8. As far as I remember, this was about the time the show jumped the shark.

Twin Peaks (1990-1991) - I just hope the season they're currently producing will complete the story in a sensible manner.

Lost (2004-2010) - Or in my case, the first two seasons. I completely lost interest (pun intended) a few episodes into the third season. I wanted answers, not just more questions. But the first two seasons were brilliant.

Firefly is a show I've always wanted to take the time watching. I think I caught the first two or three episodes back then, but have never gone back to it. Guess I should do that soon. :)

And I've never taken the time to get into any of the Stargate shows. Which of the three is the best start IYO, and are they all good?

The X-Files weren't the same anymore without Mulder... but when I rewatched the entire show last winter, I liked seasons 8 & 9 better than I used to.

First, a few disclaimers.  My criteria for the list are basically shows that I watched virtually every episode I could catch because I liked them so very much at the time.  I'm not sure I would say they "impressed" me because some are more like guilty pleasures.  They are in roughly the age order that I fell in love with them.  Age is an important factor too in my mind because some haven't exactly survived the test of time (I'm talking to you Hannibal and Mr. T).  Without further ado ...

1)  The A-Team (age 4)

2)  Cheers (age 8)

3)  Seinfeld (age 8)

4)  Homicide:  Life on the Street (age 11)

5)  MASH (age 12)

6)  The Sopranos (age 17)

7)  Battlestar Galactica (age 22)

8)  Breaking Bad (age 26)

9)  Stargate: Universe (age 27)

My honorable mentions would probably include some other sitcoms like Frasier, Everybody Loves Raymond, and Roseanne.  I watched a fair amount of The Simpsons and Boston Legal too.  The Simpsons has fallen away but I used to watch a lot of that early on.  In terms of other genre shows, I also liked the X-Files and Stargate SG-1, but never really watched those religiously.  I did watch most of the first five seasons of SG-1 when I was in my early 20s.  That led me to Stargate: Universe, which was cancelled prematurely in my opinion.

Current favorites include Game of Thrones, Better Call Saul, Stranger Things, Sherlock, High Maintenance, Insecure, and Westworld.

It makes sense to add the age for each series. :laugh:

I never watched "The A-Team", as my parents' tv didn't receive the channel it was on, but I guess I should add "MacGyver"... I liked that show a lot when I was 8 or 9.

Oh no! I remember I forgot to add "The Tripods" to my list ...

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I'll try to keep it to only ten...:laugh:

 

1.  Twilight Zone (1959-64) possibly my first TV series I remember watching with any addiction as a kid; right before ST-TOS and the animated series.

2.  Outer Limits (1963-5); a bit scarier than TZ, and it definitely made an impression on me as a kid.

3.  The Prisoner (1967-8); discovered it in my early 20s.  Remains a solid favorite to this day.  Best mind-frak series ever.

4.  Battlestar Galactica (1978-9); loved it as a kid, but kind of outgrew it when...

5.  NEW Battlestar Galactica (2003-9) ... came around.  One of the BEST science fiction series ever made, IMO.   Possibly the best in this century.

6.  Mad Men (2007-14); another 'best of this new millennium' series.  And so help me, I will forever associate the "Coke" song with Don Draper now...

7.  All in the Family (1971-80); one of the best and still most relevant family sitcoms ever attempted.  Could not be made today; it would be too watered down.

8.  MASH (1972-83); not a big fan of the first 3 years of the show, but S4 on up are pure television gold.   Got so much better when Potter & Winchester came to the 4077th.  The finale is an utter tearjerker.

9.  Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1997-2003) the first four years of this show are the best; season 5 and up is where it went off the rails for me.

10.  The X-Files (1993-2002) see: Buffy... same applies here.

 

*  Honorable mentions would be "Firefly" and "Beavis & Butthead"; the first was an aborted would-be classic and the 2nd is an all-time favorite guilty pleasure. 

 

I didn't make this list in any order of favoritism because I can't; I crave each depending on my mood, not in any order of greatness.  ;)

And obviously if this list included current favorites, I'd have to throw Doctor Who at the top, as well as Better Call Saul and a few others, but these are past shows only right?   

 

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I'll try to keep it to only ten...:laugh:

Good idea, that makes things clearer... on the other side, there are so many shows I'm so fond of, I could possibly never decide which to name and which not... :laugh:

 

1.  Twilight Zone (1959-64) possibly my first TV series I remember watching with any addiction as a kid; right before ST-TOS and the animated series.

2.  Outer Limits (1963-5); a bit scarier than TZ, and it definitely made an impression on me as a kid.

3.  The Prisoner (1967-8); discovered it in my early 20s.  Remains a solid favorite to this day.  Best mind-frak series ever.

4.  Battlestar Galactica (1978-9); loved it as a kid, but kind of outgrew it when...

5.  NEW Battlestar Galactica (2003-9) ... came around.  One of the BEST science fiction series ever made, IMO.   Possibly the best in this century.

6.  Mad Men (2007-14); another 'best of this new millennium' series.  And so help me, I will forever associate the "Coke" song with Don Draper now...

7.  All in the Family (1971-80); one of the best and still most relevant family sitcoms ever attempted.  Could not be made today; it would be too watered down.

8.  MASH (1972-83); not a big fan of the first 3 years of the show, but S4 on up are pure television gold.   Got so much better when Potter & Winchester came to the 4077th.  The finale is an utter tearjerker.

9.  Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1997-2003) the first four years of this show are the best; season 5 and up is where it went off the rails for me.

10.  The X-Files (1993-2002) see: Buffy... same applies here.

 

*  Honorable mentions would be "Firefly" and "Beavis & Butthead"; the first was an aborted would-be classic and the 2nd is an all-time favorite guilty pleasure. 

Interesting list! There are a couple of shows I've never seen, or at least not really... IIRC, the original "Outer Limits" never made it to German tv, for example. Only the 90s remake/continuation was on tv back then (IIRC, it used to air right before or after "The X-Files"). "All in the Family" and "MASH" are shows I never saw... I remember I read or heard about them somewhere, but I don't think I've ever seen an episode. But I'm familiar with a German 70s sitcom that was allegedly modelled after "All in the Family", so I have a certain idea about it.

And yes, I should really find the time to watch "Firefly", eventually ... :D

We talked about "Mad Men" before... guess my main problem indeed is that I'm neither old enough to remember that time period, nor am I American. So it's "only" a pretty decent historical drama for me, without the nostalgic impact.

 

 

I didn't make this list in any order of favoritism because I can't; I crave each depending on my mood, not in any order of greatness.  ;)

That's probably a better approach than my ranking ... shows on my lists would probably switch around a little, too, if you asked me on a different day. :laugh:

It's really hard to make a ranking, as there are so many factors to think of ... is the show really "good", as in well written and executed IMO? Is it just to my taste for some reason, even though it's lacking in some regards? Do I have a special attachment or nostalgia for it? In the end, I tried to find a balance between these factors and made a ranking that reflects my general feelings on the bottom line.

Some shows win a lot by nostalgia, like "The X-Files" and especially "Millennium"... they were rather uneven at times, many episodes were fillers or clunkers, but still, these shows mean a lot to me, because they were with me in an important time in my life.

Other shows I enjoyed because I watched them with my best buddy, and he loved them ... so he kind of "infected" me with his passion. Perhaps I'd remember them less fondly, if I had watched them alone. :laugh: "Lost" would be such a show, also "Big Love". Another very good friend in high school times was a huge "Buffy" fan, he introduced me to this show and we'd often watch it together... so my memories are biased. And my wife loved both "Big Love" and "Fringe", guess that helps these shows when it comes to my emotional attachment.

"Six Feet Under" wins for me in all categories, as it's IMO really very well written and acted, smart, but also comes with a lot of nostalgia for the times I first watched it, and some of my dearest people watched it with me and loved it, too.

 

And obviously if this list included current favorites, I'd have to throw Doctor Who at the top, as well as Better Call Saul and a few others, but these are past shows only right?   

 

Yes, I "cheated" a little by including "Doctor Who" in my list ... I decided the original run and the restart since 2005 are sufficiently different to be considered seperate shows. :laugh:

I thought it would be helpful to limit this to older, completed shows, because a retrospect view allows to judge the series as a whole... some shows that start very well have a bad or no ending, so I better wait before I list them here. :ohmy: For example, only two years ago, I was sure that "The Walking Dead" would make it into my pantheon some day, but now I'm not so sure anymore. I doubt that "Game of Thrones" will really manage to totally screw up its final two half-seasons, but you never know...

Guess I'm still somewhat biased in favor of shows I watched more recently, as it takes some distance to estimate how much of an impression a show left on me. If a show manages to stay in my heart for a long time? I guess it'll stay then. :)

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I'll stick with genre shows, at least for now:

Babylon 5 (1993-1998) - In spite of the at times cheesy acting and aged FX, it remains one of my all-time favorite shows in any genre. And it was pitched to Paramount before DS9 got its start, even if it was broadcast slightly later. It just took longer to produce B5 due to budget constraints. I guess the two shows just caught the zeitgeist, the time was ripe for shows set on a space station and we got two.

Battlestar Galactica - (2003-2008) I also count the miniseries. It's intense, especially if you watch it as a long movie and a great intro to the show itself.

Stargate SG-1 (1997-2007) - One of my favorites, even if the latter seasons with Ben Browder pretty much count as a mini-spinoff.

Farscape (1999-2003) - Fantastic chemistry between the cast members - including some puppets that you forget were puppets. A quirky, weird and wonderful show.

Stargate Atlantis (2004-2009) - Set in a different galaxy and with mostly different characters, I have fond memories of this show, even though I profoundly disliked a couple of characters.

Firefly (2002-2003) - Too bad this wonderfully weird show only got one season and a feature-length TV movie to complete the story.

Stargate Universe (2009-2011) - A dark show in comparison with the other two in the franchise. This one was canceled just as it got going.

Andromeda (2000-2007) - A show heartily disliked by many, but I remain fond of it. To be fair, I saw it on DVD just after it had been broadcast and haven't done a rewatch in about 8 years.

Honorable mentions:

The X-files (1993-2002). My husband and I are currently rewatching this show, about halfway through the first season. It got a strong start, but we'll see how I feel when we get to season 7 or 8. As far as I remember, this was about the time the show jumped the shark.

Twin Peaks (1990-1991) - I just hope the season they're currently producing will complete the story in a sensible manner.

Lost (2004-2010) - Or in my case, the first two seasons. I completely lost interest (pun intended) a few episodes into the third season. I wanted answers, not just more questions. But the first two seasons were brilliant.

Firefly is a show I've always wanted to take the time watching. I think I caught the first two or three episodes back then, but have never gone back to it. Guess I should do that soon. :)

And I've never taken the time to get into any of the Stargate shows. Which of the three is the best start IYO, and are they all good?

The X-Files weren't the same anymore without Mulder... but when I rewatched the entire show last winter, I liked seasons 8 & 9 better than I used to.

First, a few disclaimers.  My criteria for the list are basically shows that I watched virtually every episode I could catch because I liked them so very much at the time.  I'm not sure I would say they "impressed" me because some are more like guilty pleasures.  They are in roughly the age order that I fell in love with them.  Age is an important factor too in my mind because some haven't exactly survived the test of time (I'm talking to you Hannibal and Mr. T).  Without further ado ...

1)  The A-Team (age 4)

2)  Cheers (age 8)

3)  Seinfeld (age 8)

4)  Homicide:  Life on the Street (age 11)

5)  MASH (age 12)

6)  The Sopranos (age 17)

7)  Battlestar Galactica (age 22)

8)  Breaking Bad (age 26)

9)  Stargate: Universe (age 27)

My honorable mentions would probably include some other sitcoms like Frasier, Everybody Loves Raymond, and Roseanne.  I watched a fair amount of The Simpsons and Boston Legal too.  The Simpsons has fallen away but I used to watch a lot of that early on.  In terms of other genre shows, I also liked the X-Files and Stargate SG-1, but never really watched those religiously.  I did watch most of the first five seasons of SG-1 when I was in my early 20s.  That led me to Stargate: Universe, which was cancelled prematurely in my opinion.

Current favorites include Game of Thrones, Better Call Saul, Stranger Things, Sherlock, High Maintenance, Insecure, and Westworld.

It makes sense to add the age for each series. :laugh:

I never watched "The A-Team", as my parents' tv didn't receive the channel it was on, but I guess I should add "MacGyver"... I liked that show a lot when I was 8 or 9.

Oh no! I remember I forgot to add "The Tripods" to my list ...

IMO they're all good, but the best place to start is the original show, SG-1. It's fairly heavily referenced in the other shows, especially SGA, because the two shows ran concrrently for three years. Or rather, you should really start with the 1994 movie starring Kurt Russell. SG-1 is, despite its occasionally depressing themes, basically a light-hearted show. SGA is a bit more serious, but the humor still shows through quite often.

SGU is a different animal altogether: a group of civilian scientists and their military guardians/protectors who get stranded on an ancient ship that's fast running out of resources and barely holding together, in an alien galaxy where the mutually hostile factions must work together to survive. It is at times very dark, but that's as it should be given the scenario. It's what Voyager could have been, if the writers had been a bit more adventurous.

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"Mad Men" and "All in the Family" aren't on my list because of nostalgia, really.  

I was too young to actually remember the period that MM is about (1960-1970), but from my vaguest of childhood recollections (and they are very vague, now that I'm 50), it 'feels' right to the late '60s.   But I like the show more for its colorful characters, fine acting, remarkable period details and wild contrast to the present day, but not so much for my own personal nostalgia.

And AITF is just a damn well written show.   The comedy is still very sharp; both politically and socially (unlike many '70s American sitcoms, like "Welcome Back Kotter" or "Happy Days" which feel remarkably dumb and irrelevant today), and the acting (esp. Carroll O'Connor and Jean Stapleton) is about the finest I've seen in a comedy series, next to MASH.   And MASH is about war, and sadly, they've not yet rendered war obsolete, so it's still timely and relevant. 

As for my love of the older "Outer Limits" (I never got into the newer '90s version) and "Twilight Zone"?  I used to think my love of those shows was mainly nostalgia-driven (since I loved them in childhood), but when I rewatch them, I actually realize how gripping and well-written they still are; much like Star Trek.  Granted, the 'scares' look somewhat dated today, but the potency of the stories isn't diluted at all. 

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As for my love of the older "Outer Limits" (I never got into the newer '90s version) and "Twilight Zone"?  I used to think my love of those shows was mainly nostalgia-driven (since I loved them in childhood), but when I rewatch them, I actually realize how gripping and well-written they still are; much like Star Trek.  Granted, the 'scares' look somewhat dated today, but the potency of the stories isn't diluted at all. 

Yes, I never watched "Twilight Zone" in my childhood, so I have no personal nostalgia for it... but when I watched several episodes here and there? I immediately loved the show for what it is, even today. Sure, the fact that it is "tv history" plays into it perhaps, but I still found them really entertaining.

Though I have to admit I "cheated" on TTZ on my list: I've not seen all episodes yet. Just perhaps two dozen or so. But IMO that's more than sufficient for saying the show has a timeless core.

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Posted (edited)

My favorite childhood shows were THE INCREDIBLE HULK starring Bill Bixby, BIONIC WOMAN starring Lindsay Wagner, WONDER WOMAN starring Lynda Carter and SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN starring Lee Majors

In a lesser degree, THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, BATTLESTAR GALACTICA and BUCK ROGERS IN THE 25th CENTURY, still good stuff

The 70s rule !

Gus

Edited by GustavoLeao

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Posted (edited)

Rearranged my genre list a bit, to include "The Tripods".

I also found that the entire original series of "The Twilight Zone" is available on Blu Ray now and ordered it. :)

If I included "Game of Thrones" and (new) "Doctor Who" in my genre list, I guess they'd take #2 and #3 respectively. And while I'm disappointed in the latest season of "The Walking Dead", it's definitely still worth mentioning, maybe I still like it even a tad better than "True Blood".

Only two seasons into "Better Call Saul" is perhaps too early to make a call, but at the moment, it's a candidate for #3 or #4 on the non-genre list. "House of Cards" is about on the same "excitement level" as "Dexter" for me, at the moment.

Edited by Sim

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Rearranged my genre list a bit, to include "The Tripods".

I also found that the entire original series of "The Twilight Zone" is available on Blu Ray now and ordered it. :)

If I included "Game of Thrones" and (new) "Doctor Who" in my genre list, I guess they'd take #2 and #3 respectively. And while I'm disappointed in the latest season of "The Walking Dead", it's definitely still worth mentioning, maybe I still like it even a tad better than "True Blood".

Only two seasons into "Better Call Saul" is perhaps too early to make a call, but at the moment, it's a candidate for #3 or #4 on the non-genre list. "House of Cards" is about on the same "excitement level" as "Dexter" for me, at the moment.

Dexter was also another one of those shows that was SO good in the beginning but lost its way around the 5th year or so.  That ending was so bad (the whole last season, really) that it kind of peed in the pool.  It ruined how I saw the rest of the series.  Even X-Files and Buffy's less-than-stellar final years didn't do that for me. 

I like House of Cards, and those first three years were pretty solid, but that last year (4) started to feel cartoonish and over the top for me.  I half expect them to make Claire and Frank vampires at this point...

 

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Rearranged my genre list a bit, to include "The Tripods".

I also found that the entire original series of "The Twilight Zone" is available on Blu Ray now and ordered it. :)

If I included "Game of Thrones" and (new) "Doctor Who" in my genre list, I guess they'd take #2 and #3 respectively. And while I'm disappointed in the latest season of "The Walking Dead", it's definitely still worth mentioning, maybe I still like it even a tad better than "True Blood".

Only two seasons into "Better Call Saul" is perhaps too early to make a call, but at the moment, it's a candidate for #3 or #4 on the non-genre list. "House of Cards" is about on the same "excitement level" as "Dexter" for me, at the moment.

Dexter was also another one of those shows that was SO good in the beginning but lost its way around the 5th year or so.  That ending was so bad (the whole last season, really) that it kind of peed in the pool.  It ruined how I saw the rest of the series.  Even X-Files and Buffy's less-than-stellar final years didn't do that for me. 

I like House of Cards, and those first three years were pretty solid, but that last year (4) started to feel cartoonish and over the top for me.  I half expect them to make Claire and Frank vampires at this point...

More or less my feelings, too. I didn't hate the last season and ending of "Dexter" and they didn't ruin the show for me, but I agree the show got much weaker by the end. Perhaps it was two or three seasons too long. I can't quite put my finger on what exactly bothered me, but the last few seasons felt somehow incoherent, something was just missing.

The first two seasons of "House of Cards" made me think this could be another über-awesome series, but season 3 and 4 appeared a bit aimless to me, more like a soap... but what still saves the show for me are the actors. Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright are just so incredibly amazing, perhaps I'd even watch them reading the phone book with excitement!  :thumbup: So yeah, it's no longer a first tier series for me, but still absolutely enjoyable.

But then, I even enjoy "Bates Motel" to some extent ... :laugh:

Edited by Sim

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Rearranged my genre list a bit, to include "The Tripods".

I also found that the entire original series of "The Twilight Zone" is available on Blu Ray now and ordered it. :)

If I included "Game of Thrones" and (new) "Doctor Who" in my genre list, I guess they'd take #2 and #3 respectively. And while I'm disappointed in the latest season of "The Walking Dead", it's definitely still worth mentioning, maybe I still like it even a tad better than "True Blood".

Only two seasons into "Better Call Saul" is perhaps too early to make a call, but at the moment, it's a candidate for #3 or #4 on the non-genre list. "House of Cards" is about on the same "excitement level" as "Dexter" for me, at the moment.

Dexter was also another one of those shows that was SO good in the beginning but lost its way around the 5th year or so.  That ending was so bad (the whole last season, really) that it kind of peed in the pool.  It ruined how I saw the rest of the series.  Even X-Files and Buffy's less-than-stellar final years didn't do that for me. 

I like House of Cards, and those first three years were pretty solid, but that last year (4) started to feel cartoonish and over the top for me.  I half expect them to make Claire and Frank vampires at this point...

More or less my feelings, too. I didn't hate the last season and ending of "Dexter" and they didn't ruin the show for me, but I agree the show got much weaker by the end. Perhaps it was two or three seasons too long. I can't quite put my finger on what exactly bothered me, but the last few seasons felt somehow incoherent, something was just missing.

The first two seasons of "House of Cards" made me think this could be another über-awesome series, but season 3 and 4 appeared a bit aimless to me, more like a soap... but what still saves the show for me are the actors. Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright are just so incredibly amazing, perhaps I'd even watch them reading the phone book with excitement!  :thumbup: So yeah, it's no longer a first tier series for me, but still absolutely enjoyable.

But then, I even enjoy "Bates Motel" to some extent ... :laugh:

I think part of what torpedoed Dexter and HoC for me was the increasing implausibility; both of those shows were much sleeker and smarter in their earlier seasons, but as they went on, they began to almost get too ambitious with their storylines; and bigger isn't always better.   I might've liked to have seen Frank Underwood more slowly maneuvering the ranks of power rather than become president so quickly.    And maybe trying to make Dexter the suburban dad wasn't the greatest idea either (by the series' end none of that character development mattered anyway, right?).    

Sometimes I think most shows should have mandatory five year caps on their lifespans (unless they're Doctor Who or Star Trek, of course...:P ).

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Posted (edited)

Rearranged my genre list a bit, to include "The Tripods".

I also found that the entire original series of "The Twilight Zone" is available on Blu Ray now and ordered it. :)

If I included "Game of Thrones" and (new) "Doctor Who" in my genre list, I guess they'd take #2 and #3 respectively. And while I'm disappointed in the latest season of "The Walking Dead", it's definitely still worth mentioning, maybe I still like it even a tad better than "True Blood".

Only two seasons into "Better Call Saul" is perhaps too early to make a call, but at the moment, it's a candidate for #3 or #4 on the non-genre list. "House of Cards" is about on the same "excitement level" as "Dexter" for me, at the moment.

Dexter was also another one of those shows that was SO good in the beginning but lost its way around the 5th year or so.  That ending was so bad (the whole last season, really) that it kind of peed in the pool.  It ruined how I saw the rest of the series.  Even X-Files and Buffy's less-than-stellar final years didn't do that for me. 

I like House of Cards, and those first three years were pretty solid, but that last year (4) started to feel cartoonish and over the top for me.  I half expect them to make Claire and Frank vampires at this point...

More or less my feelings, too. I didn't hate the last season and ending of "Dexter" and they didn't ruin the show for me, but I agree the show got much weaker by the end. Perhaps it was two or three seasons too long. I can't quite put my finger on what exactly bothered me, but the last few seasons felt somehow incoherent, something was just missing.

The first two seasons of "House of Cards" made me think this could be another über-awesome series, but season 3 and 4 appeared a bit aimless to me, more like a soap... but what still saves the show for me are the actors. Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright are just so incredibly amazing, perhaps I'd even watch them reading the phone book with excitement!  :thumbup: So yeah, it's no longer a first tier series for me, but still absolutely enjoyable.

But then, I even enjoy "Bates Motel" to some extent ... :laugh:

I think part of what torpedoed Dexter and HoC for me was the increasing implausibility; both of those shows were much sleeker and smarter in their earlier seasons, but as they went on, they began to almost get too ambitious with their storylines; and bigger isn't always better.   I might've liked to have seen Frank Underwood more slowly maneuvering the ranks of power rather than become president so quickly.    And maybe trying to make Dexter the suburban dad wasn't the greatest idea either (by the series' end none of that character development mattered anyway, right?).    

Sometimes I think most shows should have mandatory five year caps on their lifespans (unless they're Doctor Who or Star Trek, of course...:P ).

Yes, I think you're right. Dexter also became a bit too "likeable" by the end... sure, he has always been likeable, but while he still had this disturbing, sinister aura about him in the beginning, it almost felt that by the end, the writers were just writing for his fanclub. Guess I would have liked some darker spots again on his vest, which would have made him less likeable again ... (just think of Tony Soprano showing what a disgusting brute he is after all, by the end of "Sopranos", just the moment we had become too comfortable liking him).

"The Walking Dead" is another of these shows that could use a "five year cap". (Good idea, btw! :laugh:) If they don't come up with something radically new or different after ending the Neagan storyline? I don't see how the show could still be interesting.

And yes, I originally assumed Frank Underwood becoming President would be the *end* of the series, not a plot point in the middle...

Edited by Sim

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Rearranged my genre list a bit, to include "The Tripods".

I also found that the entire original series of "The Twilight Zone" is available on Blu Ray now and ordered it. :)

If I included "Game of Thrones" and (new) "Doctor Who" in my genre list, I guess they'd take #2 and #3 respectively. And while I'm disappointed in the latest season of "The Walking Dead", it's definitely still worth mentioning, maybe I still like it even a tad better than "True Blood".

Only two seasons into "Better Call Saul" is perhaps too early to make a call, but at the moment, it's a candidate for #3 or #4 on the non-genre list. "House of Cards" is about on the same "excitement level" as "Dexter" for me, at the moment.

Dexter was also another one of those shows that was SO good in the beginning but lost its way around the 5th year or so.  That ending was so bad (the whole last season, really) that it kind of peed in the pool.  It ruined how I saw the rest of the series.  Even X-Files and Buffy's less-than-stellar final years didn't do that for me. 

I like House of Cards, and those first three years were pretty solid, but that last year (4) started to feel cartoonish and over the top for me.  I half expect them to make Claire and Frank vampires at this point...

More or less my feelings, too. I didn't hate the last season and ending of "Dexter" and they didn't ruin the show for me, but I agree the show got much weaker by the end. Perhaps it was two or three seasons too long. I can't quite put my finger on what exactly bothered me, but the last few seasons felt somehow incoherent, something was just missing.

The first two seasons of "House of Cards" made me think this could be another über-awesome series, but season 3 and 4 appeared a bit aimless to me, more like a soap... but what still saves the show for me are the actors. Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright are just so incredibly amazing, perhaps I'd even watch them reading the phone book with excitement!  :thumbup: So yeah, it's no longer a first tier series for me, but still absolutely enjoyable.

But then, I even enjoy "Bates Motel" to some extent ... :laugh:

I think part of what torpedoed Dexter and HoC for me was the increasing implausibility; both of those shows were much sleeker and smarter in their earlier seasons, but as they went on, they began to almost get too ambitious with their storylines; and bigger isn't always better.   I might've liked to have seen Frank Underwood more slowly maneuvering the ranks of power rather than become president so quickly.    And maybe trying to make Dexter the suburban dad wasn't the greatest idea either (by the series' end none of that character development mattered anyway, right?).    

Sometimes I think most shows should have mandatory five year caps on their lifespans (unless they're Doctor Who or Star Trek, of course...:P ).

Yes, I think you're right. Dexter also became a bit too "likeable" by the end... sure, he has always been likeable, but while he still had this disturbing, sinister aura about him in the beginning, it almost felt that by the end, the writers were just writing for his fanclub. Guess I would have liked some darker spots again on his vest, which would have made him less likeable again ... (just think of Tony Soprano showing what a disgusting brute he is after all, by the end of "Sopranos", just the moment we had become too comfortable liking him).

"The Walking Dead" is another of these shows that could use a "five year cap". (Good idea, btw! :laugh:) If they don't come up with something radically new or different after ending the Neagan storyline? I don't see how the show could still be interesting.

And yes, I originally assumed Frank Underwood becoming President would be the *end* of the series, not a plot point in the middle...


Yeah, "The Walking Dead" is another show that would've cracked a top 10 favorites list of mine only a few years ago, but S6 and 7 have really turned me off, and not just for the excessive glee in its own brutality & sadism, but for the repetitive 
plot lines... it's devolved into 'meet-new-bad-group/kill-new-bad-group'... rinse, repeat, etc.

It's the same with the TWD graphic novels, too.   A sameness has set in.  I guess this answers Robert Kirkman's old question of what happens in a George Romero zombie movie after the end credits roll.  The answer?  More of the same, ad infinitum.   

One of the reasons I loved Battlestar Galactica so much (the 2003-9 version); it had a beginning, a middle and a solid (even vaguely optimistic) resolution.   It was a story, not just a repetitive pattern of events that ended when the ratings sunk.   There were arcs.  That's the difference between it and say, TWD.    TWD has no story anymore; just continuance.  

In a way, TWD has become a zombie show for me in more ways than one...

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Yeah, "The Walking Dead" is another show that would've cracked a top 10 favorites list of mine only a few years ago, but S6 and 7 have really turned me off, and not just for the excessive glee in its own brutality & sadism, but for the repetitive plot lines... it's devolved into 'meet-new-bad-group/kill-new-bad-group'... rinse, repeat, etc.

It's the same with the TWD graphic novels, too.   A sameness has set in.  I guess this answers Robert Kirkman's old question of what happens in a George Romero zombie movie after the end credits roll.  The answer?  More of the same, ad infinitum.   

One of the reasons I loved Battlestar Galactica so much (the 2003-9 version); it had a beginning, a middle and a solid (even vaguely optimistic) resolution.   It was a story, not just a repetitive pattern of events that ended when the ratings sunk.   There were arcs.  That's the difference between it and say, TWD.    TWD has no story anymore; just continuance.  

In a way, TWD has become a zombie show for me in more ways than one...

The sad thing is, I don't even think TWD is doomed to be repetitive. IMO, it could still be interesting, if they stopped treating the whole zombie apocalypse as a mere stage background, and put it back into the center of the action: Why not find a surviving research lab à la season 1? A glimmer of hope on the horizon, that gives their journey a destination again -- maybe the prospect of a cure, or at least more answers? Maybe they learn that they just have to hold one for one more year, before the zombies decompose?

As it is, they don't even have a goal. They just aimlessly travel from point A to B and back, meeting bad guys time and again, in circles. Somewhere in Georgia. *Of course* that gets boring after a while... :laugh:

Edited by Sim

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Yeah, "The Walking Dead" is another show that would've cracked a top 10 favorites list of mine only a few years ago, but S6 and 7 have really turned me off, and not just for the excessive glee in its own brutality & sadism, but for the repetitive plot lines... it's devolved into 'meet-new-bad-group/kill-new-bad-group'... rinse, repeat, etc.

It's the same with the TWD graphic novels, too.   A sameness has set in.  I guess this answers Robert Kirkman's old question of what happens in a George Romero zombie movie after the end credits roll.  The answer?  More of the same, ad infinitum.   

One of the reasons I loved Battlestar Galactica so much (the 2003-9 version); it had a beginning, a middle and a solid (even vaguely optimistic) resolution.   It was a story, not just a repetitive pattern of events that ended when the ratings sunk.   There were arcs.  That's the difference between it and say, TWD.    TWD has no story anymore; just continuance.  

In a way, TWD has become a zombie show for me in more ways than one...

The sad thing is, I don't even think TWD is doomed to be repetitive. IMO, it could still be interesting, if they stopped treating the whole zombie apocalypse as a mere stage background, and put it back into the center of the action: Why not find a surviving research lab à la season 1? A glimmer of hope on the horizon, that gives their journey a destination again -- maybe the prospect of a cure, or at least more answers? Maybe they learn that they just have to hold one for one more year, before the zombies decompose?

As it is, they don't even have a goal. They just aimlessly travel from point A to B and back, meeting bad guys time and again, in circles. Somewhere in Georgia. *Of course* that gets boring after a while... :laugh:

TWD feels like it is in meandering mode now.   I've just lost interest.   Shame too, because in those early years, it was SO good. :S

But that's a common problem with many newer shows I see these days (mainly US shows); they're so afraid of early cancellation that they tend to put all of their best ideas right up front and save very little for the leaner years later on.   I suppose that's a good thing to hook viewers early on, but it seems that entropy (and apathy) almost inevitably sets in, sooner or later.  

I think a planned 4-5 year arc for a show (in advance) is a good thing.   Plot each season in gross terms, and then refine that plan as you get into production.   

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Yeah, "The Walking Dead" is another show that would've cracked a top 10 favorites list of mine only a few years ago, but S6 and 7 have really turned me off, and not just for the excessive glee in its own brutality & sadism, but for the repetitive plot lines... it's devolved into 'meet-new-bad-group/kill-new-bad-group'... rinse, repeat, etc.

It's the same with the TWD graphic novels, too.   A sameness has set in.  I guess this answers Robert Kirkman's old question of what happens in a George Romero zombie movie after the end credits roll.  The answer?  More of the same, ad infinitum.   

One of the reasons I loved Battlestar Galactica so much (the 2003-9 version); it had a beginning, a middle and a solid (even vaguely optimistic) resolution.   It was a story, not just a repetitive pattern of events that ended when the ratings sunk.   There were arcs.  That's the difference between it and say, TWD.    TWD has no story anymore; just continuance.  

In a way, TWD has become a zombie show for me in more ways than one...

The sad thing is, I don't even think TWD is doomed to be repetitive. IMO, it could still be interesting, if they stopped treating the whole zombie apocalypse as a mere stage background, and put it back into the center of the action: Why not find a surviving research lab à la season 1? A glimmer of hope on the horizon, that gives their journey a destination again -- maybe the prospect of a cure, or at least more answers? Maybe they learn that they just have to hold one for one more year, before the zombies decompose?

As it is, they don't even have a goal. They just aimlessly travel from point A to B and back, meeting bad guys time and again, in circles. Somewhere in Georgia. *Of course* that gets boring after a while... :laugh:

TWD feels like it is in meandering mode now.   I've just lost interest.   Shame too, because in those early years, it was SO good. :S

But that's a common problem with many newer shows I see these days (mainly US shows); they're so afraid of early cancellation that they tend to put all of their best ideas right up front and save very little for the leaner years later on.   I suppose that's a good thing to hook viewers early on, but it seems that entropy (and apathy) almost inevitably sets in, sooner or later.  

I think a planned 4-5 year arc for a show (in advance) is a good thing.   Plot each season in gross terms, and then refine that plan as you get into production.   

Not necessarily.  Vince Gilligan (creator and showrunner of Breaking Bad) is on record of saying he had some rough ideas, but mainly made it up as they all went along.  His feeling being that if he had a very planned out show it would close his mind to alternative routes which could be just as good if not better than his original idea.  I mean one of his original ideas was that he was going tokill off Jesse Pinkman...and since he didn't have it all planned out, he was able to shift gears.  And that character became, for me, the heart and soul of the show. So a plan can, in many instances, be a good thing...but sometimes just flying by the seat of your pants can create equally rewarding shows. 

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Yeah, "The Walking Dead" is another show that would've cracked a top 10 favorites list of mine only a few years ago, but S6 and 7 have really turned me off, and not just for the excessive glee in its own brutality & sadism, but for the repetitive plot lines... it's devolved into 'meet-new-bad-group/kill-new-bad-group'... rinse, repeat, etc.

It's the same with the TWD graphic novels, too.   A sameness has set in.  I guess this answers Robert Kirkman's old question of what happens in a George Romero zombie movie after the end credits roll.  The answer?  More of the same, ad infinitum.   

One of the reasons I loved Battlestar Galactica so much (the 2003-9 version); it had a beginning, a middle and a solid (even vaguely optimistic) resolution.   It was a story, not just a repetitive pattern of events that ended when the ratings sunk.   There were arcs.  That's the difference between it and say, TWD.    TWD has no story anymore; just continuance.  

In a way, TWD has become a zombie show for me in more ways than one...

The sad thing is, I don't even think TWD is doomed to be repetitive. IMO, it could still be interesting, if they stopped treating the whole zombie apocalypse as a mere stage background, and put it back into the center of the action: Why not find a surviving research lab à la season 1? A glimmer of hope on the horizon, that gives their journey a destination again -- maybe the prospect of a cure, or at least more answers? Maybe they learn that they just have to hold one for one more year, before the zombies decompose?

As it is, they don't even have a goal. They just aimlessly travel from point A to B and back, meeting bad guys time and again, in circles. Somewhere in Georgia. *Of course* that gets boring after a while... :laugh:

TWD feels like it is in meandering mode now.   I've just lost interest.   Shame too, because in those early years, it was SO good. :S

But that's a common problem with many newer shows I see these days (mainly US shows); they're so afraid of early cancellation that they tend to put all of their best ideas right up front and save very little for the leaner years later on.   I suppose that's a good thing to hook viewers early on, but it seems that entropy (and apathy) almost inevitably sets in, sooner or later.  

I think a planned 4-5 year arc for a show (in advance) is a good thing.   Plot each season in gross terms, and then refine that plan as you get into production.   

Not necessarily.  Vince Gilligan (creator and showrunner of Breaking Bad) is on record of saying he had some rough ideas, but mainly made it up as they all went along.  His feeling being that if he had a very planned out show it would close his mind to alternative routes which could be just as good if not better than his original idea.  I mean one of his original ideas was that he was going tokill off Jesse Pinkman...and since he didn't have it all planned out, he was able to shift gears.  And that character became, for me, the heart and soul of the show. So a plan can, in many instances, be a good thing...but sometimes just flying by the seat of your pants can create equally rewarding shows. 

True.  There are always exceptions.  ;)

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Apart from sci-fi, most shows I watch tend to be either British crime shows or period drama, or both. Some favorite non-genre shows in no particular order:

Agatha Christie's Poirot (1989-2014) - Set in the late 1930s, this show required some heavy rewriting of some of Christie's stories, simply because her early books were set in the 1920s and her late books in the 1960s, yet Poirot himself was always a man in his 60s or slightly older. Yet they always manage to stay true to the spirit of the original stories. The amazing thing is that David Suchet was 42 years old when they started shooting and 67 in the last episode. Early on, they had to add a lot of age makeup to make him look convincing, but in the later seasons, except for the very last episode, he was wearing ordinary actor makeup, as he had reached the age of his character. The production values are very high, particularly in the later seasons.

Agatha Christie's Miss Marple - Several series were made in the 1980s and 1990s, I like the ones starring Joan Hickson and Geraldine McEwan the most. it's also interesting to compare them, because both series feature some of the same stories.

Sherlock Holmes (1980s) - Several series were made starring Jeremy Brett, the one and only Sherlock for me.

Upstairs, downstairs (1971-1977) - Set in the late 1910s and early 1920s, this show is about the lives of an aristocratic English family and their servants, and the changes in people's lives brought by the social revolution in the 1920s.

Miami Vice (1985-1990) - The 80s American cop show for me. The music, if not the stories, really takes me back to my youth. :P

The Shield (2008-2008) - A rare cop show that was just as good by the end as it was early on.

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Apart from sci-fi, most shows I watch tend to be either British crime shows or period drama, or both. Some favorite non-genre shows in no particular order:

Agatha Christie's Poirot (1989-2014) - Set in the late 1930s, this show required some heavy rewriting of some of Christie's stories, simply because her early books were set in the 1920s and her late books in the 1960s, yet Poirot himself was always a man in his 60s or slightly older. Yet they always manage to stay true to the spirit of the original stories. The amazing thing is that David Suchet was 42 years old when they started shooting and 67 in the last episode. Early on, they had to add a lot of age makeup to make him look convincing, but in the later seasons, except for the very last episode, he was wearing ordinary actor makeup, as he had reached the age of his character. The production values are very high, particularly in the later seasons.

Agatha Christie's Miss Marple - Several series were made in the 1980s and 1990s, I like the ones starring Joan Hickson and Geraldine McEwan the most. it's also interesting to compare them, because both series feature some of the same stories.

Sherlock Holmes (1980s) - Several series were made starring Jeremy Brett, the one and only Sherlock for me.

Upstairs, downstairs (1971-1977) - Set in the late 1910s and early 1920s, this show is about the lives of an aristocratic English family and their servants, and the changes in people's lives brought by the social revolution in the 1920s.

Miami Vice (1985-1990) - The 80s American cop show for me. The music, if not the stories, really takes me back to my youth. :P

The Shield (2008-2008) - A rare cop show that was just as good by the end as it was early on.

There are not many British crime/cop shows I'm familiar with ... but I totally love "Cracker" with Robbie Coltrane. Have you seen it? :)

And Netflix keeps recommending "Luther" to me. Do you have an opinion on that show?

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No, I'm afraid I haven't seen Cracker or Luther either.

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Yeah, "The Walking Dead" is another show that would've cracked a top 10 favorites list of mine only a few years ago, but S6 and 7 have really turned me off, and not just for the excessive glee in its own brutality & sadism, but for the repetitive plot lines... it's devolved into 'meet-new-bad-group/kill-new-bad-group'... rinse, repeat, etc.

It's the same with the TWD graphic novels, too.   A sameness has set in.  I guess this answers Robert Kirkman's old question of what happens in a George Romero zombie movie after the end credits roll.  The answer?  More of the same, ad infinitum.   

One of the reasons I loved Battlestar Galactica so much (the 2003-9 version); it had a beginning, a middle and a solid (even vaguely optimistic) resolution.   It was a story, not just a repetitive pattern of events that ended when the ratings sunk.   There were arcs.  That's the difference between it and say, TWD.    TWD has no story anymore; just continuance.  

In a way, TWD has become a zombie show for me in more ways than one...

The sad thing is, I don't even think TWD is doomed to be repetitive. IMO, it could still be interesting, if they stopped treating the whole zombie apocalypse as a mere stage background, and put it back into the center of the action: Why not find a surviving research lab à la season 1? A glimmer of hope on the horizon, that gives their journey a destination again -- maybe the prospect of a cure, or at least more answers? Maybe they learn that they just have to hold one for one more year, before the zombies decompose?

As it is, they don't even have a goal. They just aimlessly travel from point A to B and back, meeting bad guys time and again, in circles. Somewhere in Georgia. *Of course* that gets boring after a while... :laugh:

TWD feels like it is in meandering mode now.   I've just lost interest.   Shame too, because in those early years, it was SO good. :S

But that's a common problem with many newer shows I see these days (mainly US shows); they're so afraid of early cancellation that they tend to put all of their best ideas right up front and save very little for the leaner years later on.   I suppose that's a good thing to hook viewers early on, but it seems that entropy (and apathy) almost inevitably sets in, sooner or later.  

I think a planned 4-5 year arc for a show (in advance) is a good thing.   Plot each season in gross terms, and then refine that plan as you get into production.   

Not necessarily.  Vince Gilligan (creator and showrunner of Breaking Bad) is on record of saying he had some rough ideas, but mainly made it up as they all went along.  His feeling being that if he had a very planned out show it would close his mind to alternative routes which could be just as good if not better than his original idea.  I mean one of his original ideas was that he was going tokill off Jesse Pinkman...and since he didn't have it all planned out, he was able to shift gears.  And that character became, for me, the heart and soul of the show. So a plan can, in many instances, be a good thing...but sometimes just flying by the seat of your pants can create equally rewarding shows. 

True.  There are always exceptions.  ;)

Ah, interesting, I didn't know they didn't have a rough plan in the beginning of "Breaking Bad". All the more impressive is the result! I agree Jesse Pinkman was amazing to the end. Without him, I'm sure something would have been missing.

Guess that speaks for Gilligan's writing talents... or he was just lucky. But perhaps having a plan in advance is an often helpful way of "playing it safe".

I guess "Lost" is a show that suffered from the lack of advance planning, too... it piled up so many questions and mysteries, and apparently, the writers had no good answers either, so of course it was a bit disappointing in the end.

No, I'm afraid I haven't seen Cracker or Luther either.

It's interesting how European crime shows have their own style, compared to their American counterparts.

Don't know if that's still the case, but a couple of years ago, Scandinavian crime shows were all the rage on German tv. I think the success of Stieg Larsson's "Millennium Trilogy" was partly responsible for that, and German public tv bought all kinds of Scandinavian shows. (Or perhaps they just made necessity a virtue, as public tv couldn't compete with the private channels for the more expensive US shows.)

Most German productions are crime shows, too, so this genre has a tradition among German viewers. As a fan of genre fiction, I find it a bit disappointing that German tv is not bolder... even with lower production values, it should be possible to produce at least some more fantastic stuff. But it seems German tv is very conservative, always focusing on what they know will find an audience here anyway, which is "realistic" drama.

Sometimes, the European style of production is refreshing though, IMO. Sometimes, I just feel like watching a German crime show. Another European show I heard many good things about, is the Danish political drama "Borgen".

Edited by Sim

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I never watched US tv shows when I was younger, I preferred German stuff - which definitely wasn't sci-fi related, I think this is where my absolute disinterest in the genre originates, I was never raised with it. It also had to do with the fact that my mother hated it when I watched "violent" things, so she basically never really allowed me to watch anything that wasn't considered 'German family entertainment', I was supposed to watch the familiar stuff that she knew was okay, and US TV shows did not fall into that category since she wasn't familiar with them. Since I was also mostly raised by my very conservative grandparents during the week (my parents both worked all day) I was not allowed to watch much TV in the first place when I was young, so I could never really develop much of a taste for TV shows - I would have missed too many episodes. I did watch a lot of German game shows in the evenings when I had the chance though, I loved these. When I got my own TV, I of course could have started to watch ALL the things, but now I myself didn't want to bother with US series (except for X Files), I never really saw much of a point. I mostly just watched German soap operas and soccer instead.

Still, there are two shows that stand out and that I did watch/wanted to watch very badly iny my youth.

Remington Steele is the first one. Little me used to watch the show when my mother didn't notice, it definitely fell into her "way too violent" category. I never caught much more than a few episodes, though. Today I finally have all the DVDs and can re-watch it whenever I want.

Later, when I was a teenager, The X Files was my holy grail. I loved the show so much, and I still do, ALL the nostalgia. I had a massive crush on Mulder and David Duchovny, complete with posters and all, but it ultimately went nowhere because there simply wasn't any fandom to talk to - you couldn't just google and join message boards back then. My friends liked the show, sure, but they preferred talking about boy bands or Leonardo DiCaprio. (I know X Files counts only halfway here since the show is running again, but I'm talking about the 90s seasons of the show, not the revival. Heh.)


I never thought it possible but in recent years I've found a show that can actually somewhat rival my love for TNG, and that's the original Dallas series, or rather, its first nine seasons (before it derails with the ridiculous shower scene at the end and its desperate attempts to become more and more like Dynasty). I caught glimpses at it every now and then as a kid, but like I said above, I was never really interested in it. I constantly re-watch the first nine seasons these days and I always find new things to love. They really tackled a lot of issues on the show, it's still a soap opera, yes, but certainly not as ridiculous as Dynasty. (Which I have also watched in its entirety by now but found to be... greatly lacking in substance.)

Other shows that impressed me in recent years were Breaking Bad (I so found a new OTP right there, Walt/Jesse, anyone) and a short-lived but really good British series about people who used to be zombies but have been cured and are avoided and hated on by society for it and for what they did when they were zombies. Some of them desperately try to "fit in" by wearing contact lenses and painting their skin (they still look like zombies even though they no longer are) and yet end up being hated on anyway as soon as their secret is discovered. Others proudly display their "zombieness" but people avoid them and are afraid they will start biting again any second. You get the usual mob hunting scenes and politicians who promise to "take care of the problem" and rile everyone up, and you get the ones who protect them and argue for their rights and the ones who try to shove them into a "you are no longer human and you will be treated like the freaks that you are" and all. The series is called In The Flesh, and it's a pretty good social commentary, AND it has a pansexual main character AND a gay one who falls in love with that character. In short, has everything I want in a show, but they canceled it after only two seasons and I'm still bitter about this. It's a great idea and a completely new approach towards the zombie genre and I love it for that and I wish it had more seasons because SO GOOD.

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