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StillKirok

Norman Lear Reboots

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On that, we disagree, but, all I see on Takei's Twitter is a rampant desire to end the Electoral College, and, quite frankly, it should be eliminated, since, the only reason it was put in place was to defend slavery. What its function boils down to, at this point, are the rural welfare states exercising power over the people that make it possible to send them checks

That's a completely misguided view of the Electoral College, and Takei only wants to get rid of it because his candidate lost. Takei is a complete lunatic, and he would not be spewing his nonsense had Hillary won.  Oh, and they aren't bringing back the Democrat imposed internment camps.  But that's more Takei lunacy.

There's no laws saying the can't try...

If they make a show people like?  People will watch.   Advertisers will pay.  

We're also getting VERY much on the Kobayashi Maru side of things here too... Let's not dig too deeply into politics here.  I know that's tough in a Norman Lear thread, but let's try (ALL of us... Myself included).

It won't get on the air.  Try, and you lose your career.  In general, conservatives have to be in the closet in Hollywood. 

ONCE AGAIN: 

 

Let's shelve any talk of the Electoral college or blue/red state politics for the KM section.

 

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Hollywood cares about one thing: money.

If they thought your idea would make bank they'd give it a shot because money. That, apparently, few try is not a tell that Hollywood doesn't want it.

Because money.

First thing Manny Coto did after ENT was the 1/2 Hour News Hour as an answer to The Daily Show that aired on Fox News.

Ran for 17 episodes. It's not some indictment of Hollywood liberalism that Fox News viewers didn't bother to tune in.

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There are conservative celebrities out there, that's for sure.   My state was nearly run into the ground by one of them.  :laugh:

J/K, but seriously; at the end of the day, it's about money as well as the art.   I think if conservative celebrities wanted to make their own programming to counter the 'liberal voices of Hollywood,' they could and should do so.  Who knows?  If they market it well enough it might catch on.   But one can't blame a conservative show's failure on progressives (my preferred term) if it doesn't catch on... that's up to the viewers.   

But as for conservative celebrities?  Kelsey Grammar is a well-known Hollywood conservative and his "Frasier" ran for many years (my wife and I used to love the show).   Ah-nuld is another.  Sylvester Stallone, Bruce Willis, Dwayne Johnson (just saw his "Moana" the other night), Jessica Simpson, Hulk Hogan, Alice Cooper,  Clint Eastwood, James Caan, and Juliette Lewis are all well-known 'closeted' conservatives who've been pretty open about their politics.   If any two of them banded together and put on their own series?   I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be 'banned' or exiled by Hollywood 'elites.'   That's conspiratorial nonsense...

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Some types of entertainment naturally lean right or left. Talk radio in the U.S. is overwhelmingly right wing. Police and military shows are frequently right wing oriented. Science shows tend to be considered left wing by some on the right (especially the religious right) because they tend to mention things like evolution and global warming which are hot button issues for many on the right. Any show that has strong characters that are not white straight males are considered left wing by many but not all people on the right wing. For an example of this look at what happened when the new Star Trek announced that they had cast a woman person of color as the lead. 

I think that the right wing has kind of boxed itself in a corner when it comes to entertainment. It considers so many issues to be liberal that it is writing itself out of them. For example, any show that talks about race or sexual orientation in a manner that is realistic is considered by many on the right to have a left wing bias. Shows have to be entertaining to stay on the air. Demanding that producers avoid hot button issues limits the type of shows that can show conservative values. Also some conservative values, especially religious right conservative values are offensive to many young people. Young people are an important demographic to advertisers and shows that offend young people don't draw advertisers. 

A show like All in the Family had to lean towards the left to stay on the air. Archie had so many racist and sexist opinions that showing him in a good light would have offended too many people, especially young people. 

There are some good conservative characters on TV but they tend not to be the ones driving the action. 

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Some types of entertainment naturally lean right or left. Talk radio in the U.S. is overwhelmingly right wing. 

Because the radio conglomerate owners are. 

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Archie Bunker was not a conservative. In 1970 he would have been considered an old south Dixie Crat. They were democrats. Not soon after the show started, they were courted by Nixon, and enfolded into the neo cons of today, but in 1970 they were democrats. He clearly had radical views in the guise of satire about human rights issues. They even had Polish jokes on the show.

Family Values were not conservative until Reagan in the 1980s, and Nancy.

Racial humor, which was awful, was on both sides equally. That is not a family value. That is not conservative or liberal either.

No way would All in the Family work today. It would be too snarky and mean spirited.

I have seen the Half Hour News Hour show. It was horrid. The irony is Fox also does good liberal bent comedy, like the Simpsons and Family Guy and American Dad. The 1/2 hour news hour's idea of a joke was "see, liberals are evil, huh". That was it. That literally was the joke, which as Spock would say, 'not a story with a humorous climax'. The produced 17 episodes, but they only aired 8, and they were just not funny./ The producers did not get satire at all.

The Daily Show and Colbert killed it with satire, with top notch writing. It's the writing. Also Jon Steward and Stephen Colbert are improv geniuses. They're way funnier than SNL has been in 16 years, or more. SNL has been a tired comedy dog since probably 1994, when the Waynes World show invented randomness vlogging before it was a thing. SNL also had Justin Beiber on, so their hosting Trump is not saying anything about talent or about reasons.

Back to Archie. I would say he was an extremist even for his day, on both ends, and was a bit of a non conformist. That is not a conservative. He wanted things 'the old way' only in his dreams, but really he wanted the establishment to just shut it if they couldn't listen to him ranting. He was the last bastion of the uncooth of his generation. The late great Carrol O'Connor was ahead of his time.

In the spin off set in the bar, he conforms a bit.

Half Hour News Hour was a ratings disaster and was quickly cancelled. Daily Show, even with Trevor Noah's not as clever lines, is still a ratings hit.

Hollywood on TV is different from Hollywood in the movies. The manic TV audience tends to lean more toward certain demographics, while old m,ethods of rating systems are so antiquated, good shows get axed while dumb show remain on the air for years. It is neither liberal or conservative. The outgoing vocal movie producers who happen to lean left and directors who happen to also, are just loud. The establishment is still very much conservative, including the ratings board.

omitted

Besides, there is an Archie Bunker like sitcom on the air already. It's basically American Dad (a version of Family Guy where the liberal is a conservative).

Edited by Chimera82405

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OK, ONE MORE TIME FOR CLARITY:

Let's keep this about entertainment and not go into the electoral college here, OK?

That is strictly a topic for the KM section and it has no place in a thread about Norman Lear reboots.

One more comment about the EC and I'll have to move the thread to the KM section.

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OK, ONE MORE TIME FOR CLARITY:

Let's keep this about entertainment and not go into the electoral college here, OK?

That is strictly a topic for the KM section and it has no place in a thread about Norman Lear reboots.

One more comment about the EC and I'll have to move the thread to the KM section.

I have edited out the comment, but calling George Takei names isn't cool.

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OK, ONE MORE TIME FOR CLARITY:

Let's keep this about entertainment and not go into the electoral college here, OK?

That is strictly a topic for the KM section and it has no place in a thread about Norman Lear reboots.

One more comment about the EC and I'll have to move the thread to the KM section.

I have edited out the comment, but calling George Takei names isn't cool.

Thanks.

 

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Was Archie a Conservative. According to Google a conservative is:

1) holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion. (Adjective)

1) a person who is averse to change and holds to traditional values and attitudes, typically in relation to politics. (Noun)

A conservative usually wants to hold on to the values that were prevalent when they were growing up. The show came on in 1971 when Archie was somewhere in his 40's or Early 50's. That would mean he was born sometime in the 1920's. So his childhood would be from the late 1920's to the early 40's.  Archie was a working class guy from Queens NY. As far as I knew he grew up in NY. He is obviously very bigoted. But would his view have been common among working class white men in the 1930's when he was growing up? 

If someone said something sexist like "A woman's place is in the kitchen"  in a working class bar full of white men in say 1935, I don't think that anyone would think twice about it. Casual sexism and racism were the norm during that time. Archie would have absorbed the casual racism and sexism of the time and considered it the natural order of the world. Many men of his age changed their minds later on, especially during WWII, but Archie kept clinging to the common values of his childhood. 

Let's look at the opening theme. 

Boy the way Glen Miller played
Songs that made the hit parade.
Guys like us we had it made,
Those were the days.
 
And you knew who you were then,
Girls were girls and men were men,
Mister we could use a man
Like Herbert Hoover again.
 
Didn't need no welfare state,
Everybody pulled his weight.
Gee our old LaSalle ran great.
Those were the days.
 
"Guys like us we had it made" shows a man clearly looking back to a good old days, which is a conservative trait.
"Girls were girls and men were men" "Mister we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again", "Didn't need no welfare state, everybody pulled his weight" are all traditional conservative ideas. 
 
I remember episodes where Archie says other conservative ideas like how much he hates unions. I don't recall Archie ever saying anything that could be considered liberal until the very end of the series.
 
In a country where politics is binary, you have to be either a liberal or a conservative, I don't see how Archie isn't a conservative. 

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Nixon was Archie's hero; he once wrote a letter to him on the show.

Archie was pro-draft, hated welfare, hated taxes, he was against gays, anti-civil rights, anti-women's lib, and he was not comfortable with minorities or different religions.   How could that, in any way, make him a Democrat or a moderate??  Maybe an 1864 Democrat...:laugh:

Archie Bunker couldn't be any more Republican.   If the character were real and alive today, he'd be a firm Trump supporter, I have no doubt...

Edited by Sehlat Vie

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