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StillKirok

Rogue One Thoughts--With Spoilers

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Sim   

Hm, I'm late to the party... just returned from the theatre, and you've disected the movie much better already than I could. :laugh:

I have to echo Prometheus above: I went to see it expecting nothing, and was perfectly satisfied.

I'm not a die-hard SW fan, have never read any books or comics nor played SW games, I'm just very fond of the OT and TFA last year... so the movie didn't have to be awesome for me to not consider the time at the theatre wasted. It just had to be decent, and it absolutely was, IMO.

Robin, I agree with you that the two main characters Jyn and Cassian weren't somehow fleshed out enough; they appeared a tad less memorable than Baze and Saw. But I liked them well enough. It's just a side movie, right? K2SO was a nice addition, too.

The appearance of Darth Vader and CGI Tarkin and Leia were nice additions. I knew they were CGI, so I noticed it; I don't know if I would have if I hadn't known that. Nice nods to the OT.

I think what I liked most about this movie, is that it wasn't quite as bombastic as the main movies: No Jedis this time, the battles weren't overdone or too bombastic, but won a lot by being limited to some extent, most of the time (well except for the end maybe, but that was really so well paced it felt very thrilling). I don't mind that Jyn and Cassian weren't quite such "huge" heros or that Krennic wasn't quite that "huge" a bad guy -- it just underlined for me that it's a side story. And the Force was satisfyingly mysterious, with the nods to eastern religions.

Lucas' prequel trilogy could take a lesson from this movie about what a good prequel should look like.

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Ah... reserved seating. That makes all the difference!

There were a couple of smaller local theatres that have it, but... they're smaller. :P   And we REALLY wanted to see the preview night in IMAX, so yeah... 

nine-look-at-me-im-stupid-long-game.gif  :laugh:

I wouldn't go so far to say the first hour was boring, exactly; there was plenty of fan service to chew on, but to a non-Starwoid?  Yeah, perhaps it was a bit slow to the uninitiated.  As I said in my blog, this was a fan film, and as a result?  It really only plays best to fans.   I couldn't imagine watching this as a non-SW fan; it'd be like parachuting into the Pyrenees and not speaking a lick of Basque, Spanish or French.

The mid-section of the "Rogue One" was where my attention wavered a little bit, but it came back strong by that last act.  That final battle was visceral and powerful, and segued beautifully with SW77 (quasi-plasticine Leia aside...).  

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Ah... reserved seating. That makes all the difference!

There were a couple of smaller local theatres that have it, but... they're smaller. :P   And we REALLY wanted to see the preview night in IMAX, so yeah... 

nine-look-at-me-im-stupid-long-game.gif  :laugh:

I wouldn't go so far to say the first hour was boring, exactly; there was plenty of fan service to chew on, but to a non-Starwoid?  Yeah, perhaps it was a bit slow to the uninitiated.  As I said in my blog, this was a fan film, and as a result?  It really only plays best to fans.   I couldn't imagine watching this as a non-SW fan; it'd be like parachuting into the Pyrenees and not speaking a lick of Basque, Spanish or French.

The mid-section of the "Rogue One" was where my attention wavered a little bit, but it came back strong by that last act.  That final battle was visceral and powerful, and segued beautifully with SW77 (quasi-plasticine Leia aside...).  

I don't think she said it was boring per se... (I certainly wasn't bored at any point. I'd also add that I was entranced by how beautiful this film was). But her issue with the slow-paced opening, which promised some emotional revelation later in the film that would really up the stakes wasn't really delivered upon, and I agree with that. Knowing Jyn's backstory made me comprehend why she wanted to be reunited with her dad, but not much else. She tells Krennic who she is before he dies, and it fell a little flat. It should've been a moment of incredible revelation, and it would've been if we'd felt that bit more invested in Jyn. As it is, that moment went - sort of by default - to Chirrut, whose faith in himself, the Force and his friend was a through-line everyone could follow and make sense of.

They don't have to be propelled by destiny like a Luke, Han or Leia - the central characters' non-Jedi ordinariness is a good idea, I think. But cut that opening down a bit, add a few, tiny extra scenes of insight later on, some extra dialogue, to strengthen Jyn and Cassian's appeal, to go inside their personalities some more, would've better equipped the audience go on their emotional journey with them.

Hm, I'm late to the party... just returned from the theatre, and you've disected the movie much better already than I could. :laugh:

I have to echo Prometheus above: I went to see it expecting nothing, and was perfectly satisfied.

I'm not a die-hard SW fan, have never read any books or comics nor played SW games, I'm just very fond of the OT and TFA last year... so the movie didn't have to be awesome for me to not consider the time at the theatre wasted. It just had to be decent, and it absolutely was, IMO.

Robin, I agree with you that the two main characters Jyn and Cassian weren't somehow fleshed out enough; they appeared a tad less memorable than Baze and Saw. But I liked them well enough. It's just a side movie, right? K2SO was a nice addition, too.

The appearance of Darth Vader and CGI Tarkin and Leia were nice additions. I knew they were CGI, so I noticed it; I don't know if I would have if I hadn't known that. Nice nods to the OT.

I think what I liked most about this movie, is that it wasn't quite as bombastic as the main movies: No Jedis this time, the battles weren't overdone or too bombastic, but won a lot by being limited to some extent, most of the time (well except for the end maybe, but that was really so well paced it felt very thrilling). I don't mind that Jyn and Cassian weren't quite such "huge" heros or that Krennic wasn't quite that "huge" a bad guy -- it just underlined for me that it's a side story. And the Force was satisfyingly mysterious, with the nods to eastern religions.

Lucas' prequel trilogy could take a lesson from this movie about what a good prequel should look like.

Krennic was a disappointment, but it was the way he was written, or the way the film was edited, certainly nothing to do with Mendelsohn.

But y'know, I'm gonna stop talking about this now because I think I'm giving the impression that I hate the film, and I really don't. I enjoyed it hugely and am going to see it again over the weekend. I guess I'm a little sad because it feels like greatness was so close, if they'd just managed to fix some minor character/narrative stuff.

...

 

 

 

 

Aaaaaaand I'll just put this here:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/i-have-problems-with-rogue-one-1790413691

 

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Sim   

 

Hm, I'm late to the party... just returned from the theatre, and you've disected the movie much better already than I could. :laugh:

I have to echo Prometheus above: I went to see it expecting nothing, and was perfectly satisfied.

I'm not a die-hard SW fan, have never read any books or comics nor played SW games, I'm just very fond of the OT and TFA last year... so the movie didn't have to be awesome for me to not consider the time at the theatre wasted. It just had to be decent, and it absolutely was, IMO.

Robin, I agree with you that the two main characters Jyn and Cassian weren't somehow fleshed out enough; they appeared a tad less memorable than Baze and Saw. But I liked them well enough. It's just a side movie, right? K2SO was a nice addition, too.

The appearance of Darth Vader and CGI Tarkin and Leia were nice additions. I knew they were CGI, so I noticed it; I don't know if I would have if I hadn't known that. Nice nods to the OT.

I think what I liked most about this movie, is that it wasn't quite as bombastic as the main movies: No Jedis this time, the battles weren't overdone or too bombastic, but won a lot by being limited to some extent, most of the time (well except for the end maybe, but that was really so well paced it felt very thrilling). I don't mind that Jyn and Cassian weren't quite such "huge" heros or that Krennic wasn't quite that "huge" a bad guy -- it just underlined for me that it's a side story. And the Force was satisfyingly mysterious, with the nods to eastern religions.

Lucas' prequel trilogy could take a lesson from this movie about what a good prequel should look like.

Krennic was a disappointment, but it was the way he was written, or the way the film was edited, certainly nothing to do with Mendelsohn.

But y'know, I'm gonna stop talking about this now because I think I'm giving the impression that I hate the film, and I really don't. I enjoyed it hugely and am going to see it again over the weekend. I guess I'm a little sad because it feels like greatness was so close, if they'd just managed to fix some minor character/narrative stuff.

...

I'm sure you're right with your observations, that a better writing or editing might have improved the movie a lot...

But I don't feel the need for analyzing the movie now, as I was perfectly entertained. Perhaps I'd have enjoyed the movie even more with a few changes, but what I don't know won't hurt me, so as it stands, I felt it even somehow refreshing the villain wasn't overbearing, but perhaps even a tad unspectacular. At least he isn't stealing Kylo Ren's show, right? :laugh: That underlines the side story character of the movie, and maybe even increases the anticipation of Episode VIII next year a little...

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Hm, I'm late to the party... just returned from the theatre, and you've disected the movie much better already than I could. :laugh:

I have to echo Prometheus above: I went to see it expecting nothing, and was perfectly satisfied.

I'm not a die-hard SW fan, have never read any books or comics nor played SW games, I'm just very fond of the OT and TFA last year... so the movie didn't have to be awesome for me to not consider the time at the theatre wasted. It just had to be decent, and it absolutely was, IMO.

Robin, I agree with you that the two main characters Jyn and Cassian weren't somehow fleshed out enough; they appeared a tad less memorable than Baze and Saw. But I liked them well enough. It's just a side movie, right? K2SO was a nice addition, too.

The appearance of Darth Vader and CGI Tarkin and Leia were nice additions. I knew they were CGI, so I noticed it; I don't know if I would have if I hadn't known that. Nice nods to the OT.

I think what I liked most about this movie, is that it wasn't quite as bombastic as the main movies: No Jedis this time, the battles weren't overdone or too bombastic, but won a lot by being limited to some extent, most of the time (well except for the end maybe, but that was really so well paced it felt very thrilling). I don't mind that Jyn and Cassian weren't quite such "huge" heros or that Krennic wasn't quite that "huge" a bad guy -- it just underlined for me that it's a side story. And the Force was satisfyingly mysterious, with the nods to eastern religions.

Lucas' prequel trilogy could take a lesson from this movie about what a good prequel should look like.

Krennic was a disappointment, but it was the way he was written, or the way the film was edited, certainly nothing to do with Mendelsohn.

But y'know, I'm gonna stop talking about this now because I think I'm giving the impression that I hate the film, and I really don't. I enjoyed it hugely and am going to see it again over the weekend. I guess I'm a little sad because it feels like greatness was so close, if they'd just managed to fix some minor character/narrative stuff.

...

I'm sure you're right with your observations, that a better writing or editing might have improved the movie a lot...

But I don't feel the need for analyzing the movie now, as I was perfectly entertained. Perhaps I'd have enjoyed the movie even more with a few changes, but what I don't know won't hurt me, so as it stands, I felt it even somehow refreshing the villain wasn't overbearing, but perhaps even a tad unspectacular. At least he isn't stealing Kylo Ren's show, right? :laugh: That underlines the side story character of the movie, and maybe even increases the anticipation of Episode VIII next year a little...

 

I think LF/Disney are certainly going to be happy about that. :thumbup:

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Hm, I'm late to the party... just returned from the theatre, and you've disected the movie much better already than I could. :laugh:

I have to echo Prometheus above: I went to see it expecting nothing, and was perfectly satisfied.

I'm not a die-hard SW fan, have never read any books or comics nor played SW games, I'm just very fond of the OT and TFA last year... so the movie didn't have to be awesome for me to not consider the time at the theatre wasted. It just had to be decent, and it absolutely was, IMO.

Robin, I agree with you that the two main characters Jyn and Cassian weren't somehow fleshed out enough; they appeared a tad less memorable than Baze and Saw. But I liked them well enough. It's just a side movie, right? K2SO was a nice addition, too.

The appearance of Darth Vader and CGI Tarkin and Leia were nice additions. I knew they were CGI, so I noticed it; I don't know if I would have if I hadn't known that. Nice nods to the OT.

I think what I liked most about this movie, is that it wasn't quite as bombastic as the main movies: No Jedis this time, the battles weren't overdone or too bombastic, but won a lot by being limited to some extent, most of the time (well except for the end maybe, but that was really so well paced it felt very thrilling). I don't mind that Jyn and Cassian weren't quite such "huge" heros or that Krennic wasn't quite that "huge" a bad guy -- it just underlined for me that it's a side story. And the Force was satisfyingly mysterious, with the nods to eastern religions.

Lucas' prequel trilogy could take a lesson from this movie about what a good prequel should look like.

Krennic was a disappointment, but it was the way he was written, or the way the film was edited, certainly nothing to do with Mendelsohn.

But y'know, I'm gonna stop talking about this now because I think I'm giving the impression that I hate the film, and I really don't. I enjoyed it hugely and am going to see it again over the weekend. I guess I'm a little sad because it feels like greatness was so close, if they'd just managed to fix some minor character/narrative stuff.

...

I'm sure you're right with your observations, that a better writing or editing might have improved the movie a lot...

But I don't feel the need for analyzing the movie now, as I was perfectly entertained. Perhaps I'd have enjoyed the movie even more with a few changes, but what I don't know won't hurt me, so as it stands, I felt it even somehow refreshing the villain wasn't overbearing, but perhaps even a tad unspectacular. At least he isn't stealing Kylo Ren's show, right? :laugh: That underlines the side story character of the movie, and maybe even increases the anticipation of Episode VIII next year a little...

 

I think LF/Disney are certainly going to be happy about that. :thumbup:

Agreed with both of you; yes, this is NOT a perfect film, but at the same time I was very entertained by it so while there were issues that prevented this from being another "Empire"?  It's still light-years ahead of the prequels and I really liked seeing 'non-special' folks in that galaxy far, far, away.   The SW universe felt very real in R1, and I like that.

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Krennic should not have been an over powering presence to Darth Vader or Tarkin. Or even on a par with them. If he seemed more menacing than those two - then it would diminish their presence in the OT.

He wasn't meant to be another Vader/Tarkin /Palpatine anyways. He was a greedy opportunist that wanted to advance his career by any means necessary. That's it. His intimidating stature comes from the death squad he surrounds himself with. Like Jabba and his bounty hunters.

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Krennic should not have been an over powering presence to Darth Vader or Tarkin. Or even on a par with them. If he seemed more menacing than those two - then it would diminish their presence in the OT.

He wasn't meant to be another Vader/Tarkin /Palpatine anyways. He was a greedy opportunist that wanted to advance his career by any means necessary. That's it. His intimidating stature comes from the death squad he surrounds himself with. Like Jabba and his bounty hunters.

While I don't think Krennic was entirely successful as a character, it was an interesting glimpse into the Imperial chain of command, below the Emperor.

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It might help to think of these anthology villains as one shot villains (most of them at least). Think of it like the villains on all the Marvel Netflix shows. None of them will be shown to over power Thanos or most of the Marvel movie villains. They simply won't. Whoever the villain is in the upcoming Han Solo film will unlikely unseat Jabba the Hutt or Boba Fett as Solo's primary antagonists ...

Darth Vader's ending time in Rogue One was so amazing that he made Darth Maul look cartoonish.

tumblr_m7a8wa3RrV1qlzduwo1_500.gif

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Second viewing. Enjoyed it a lot more. Perhaps re-framing it as a Star Wars WWII film helped. Vader's scenes are priceless. 

Another way they could have gone with the movie would have been more of a Magnificent Seven style in which they slowly recruit players; you get to know them a bit more this way. I realize Disney had to play it safe this time around. Such a movie would have been slower though. 

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kenman   

Saw it this afternoon.  The first half of the movie is clunky and jumps all over the place, and I wasn't sure it was going to come together, but once the pieces are all in place so that our characters set off to actually steal the plans?  The movie comes together and ends with a pretty entertaining battle sequence. The digital cameos of past stars of the franchise were pretty impressive (still has that uncanny valley thing where you can see something is off, but impressive nonetheless), and oddly enough the one character who didn't need digital enhancement (Vader) looked the weirdest to me.  Something about his helmet was off or something just looked cheaper than it did even in 1977. In terms of Vader within the movie, I think his first scene with Krennic was not great, and felt somewhat unnecessary, but his bit at the end just menacing and scary as hell as he took out rebels?  Great. If they had only done that I would've been satisfied. I also didn't expect it to lead into the original film so directly, but it was a nice set up for that iconic opening.

I think in the end I enjoyed the movie, but it took a while for me to warm up to it, because it was really clunky in the beginning. But I will say this (which I said to my brothers after the movie), this movie was heavy on references and fan service, and even though I enjoyed TFA for the most part, it was also heavily riffing on the structure and style of the original film...if Episode VIII comes out and doesn't do something that feels fresh and new and take this franchise into some kind of new direction? I might just be done with new Star Wars films for a while. Just save my money and revisit the original trilogy whenever it suits me. 

Edited by kenman

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Another way they could have gone with the movie would have been more of a Magnificent Seven style in which they slowly recruit players; you get to know them a bit more this way. I realize Disney had to play it safe this time around. Such a movie would have been slower though. 

I thought that is what they were going to do. Have Jyn and Andor go from world to world recruiting the other characters, which allowed a little bit of development. That is probably one very minor change I think might've helped.

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kenman   

RedLetterMedia's weigh-in on the movie...not quite fans really.  I;m finding it hard to disagree with a lot of their points.  I enjoyed the movie in the second half, but I have to admit I've forgotten a lot of went on in it since I saw it (but I do remember thinking if the Star Wars series is going to rely so heavily on references that I may move on from the series, as I even stated here before after originally seeing it).  Anyhow, I think they are harsher than I feel about it...but I agree on many points too. 

Half in the Bag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc2kFk5M9x4

Mr. Plinkett Weighs In: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJgfxlgUIZY

And then Plinkett clarifies against comments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9-vP7kJheI

 

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RedLetterMedia's weigh-in on the movie...not quite fans really.  I;m finding it hard to disagree with a lot of their points.  I enjoyed the movie in the second half, but I have to admit I've forgotten a lot of went on in it since I saw it (but I do remember thinking if the Star Wars series is going to rely so heavily on references that I may move on from the series, as I even stated here before after originally seeing it).  Anyhow, I think they are harsher than I feel about it...but I agree on many points too. 

Half in the Bag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc2kFk5M9x4

Mr. Plinkett Weighs In: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJgfxlgUIZY

And then Plinkett clarifies against comments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9-vP7kJheI

^
Saw 
these earlier this week, and while I agree with some of their points, they sound as if they were predisposed to disliking it.    

Rogue One was, for me, just a really GOOD fan film, and on that basis I really enjoyed it very much.   But comparing it to TFA or the OT really isn't fair, since R1 isn't designed to be a standalone experience like those others.   "The Force Awakens" (for example) was a much warmer movie, and it also served as a shorthand introduction to this universe for newcomers.  TFA was basically Star Wars: The Next Generation.   R1 didn't really try, because it's wasn't designed to win any converts.  This isn't a SW movie for newbies, any more than "The Two Towers" or "Desolation of Smaug" were intros to the LOTR universe.

R1 is Star Wars strictly for the choir. 

And to "Mr. Plinkett"'s partly legitimate 'what story?' complaint regarding R1's "A Star Wars Story" subtitle?  This WAS a story; R1 is the story of how the rebellion stole the plans that led to the Death Star's destruction.    Granted, it's not a complete story, but then again, R1 isn't designed to be a complete movie

 

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kenman   

RedLetterMedia's weigh-in on the movie...not quite fans really.  I;m finding it hard to disagree with a lot of their points.  I enjoyed the movie in the second half, but I have to admit I've forgotten a lot of went on in it since I saw it (but I do remember thinking if the Star Wars series is going to rely so heavily on references that I may move on from the series, as I even stated here before after originally seeing it).  Anyhow, I think they are harsher than I feel about it...but I agree on many points too. 

Half in the Bag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc2kFk5M9x4

Mr. Plinkett Weighs In: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJgfxlgUIZY

And then Plinkett clarifies against comments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9-vP7kJheI

^
Saw 
these earlier this week, and while I agree with some of their points, they sound as if they were predisposed to disliking it.    

Rogue One was, for me, just a really GOOD fan film, and on that basis I really enjoyed it very much.   But comparing it to TFA or the OT really isn't fair, since R1 isn't designed to be a standalone experience like those others.   "The Force Awakens" (for example) was a much warmer movie, and it also served as a shorthand introduction to this universe for newcomers.  TFA was basically Star Wars: The Next Generation.   R1 didn't really try, because it's wasn't designed to win any converts.  This isn't a SW movie for newbies, any more than "The Two Towers" or "Desolation of Smaug" were intros to the LOTR universe.

R1 is Star Wars strictly for the choir. 

And to "Mr. Plinkett"'s partly legitimate 'what story?' complaint regarding R1's "A Star Wars Story" subtitle?  This WAS a story; R1 is the story of how the rebellion stole the plans that led to the Death Star's destruction.    Granted, it's not a complete story, but then again, R1 isn't designed to be a complete movie

 

While I can sort of agree...at the same time they billed this as "A Standalone story" so that argument can't hold THAT much water. At least I recall them saying that a lot.  And as for the fan film analogy...that is actually one of the things I mark as a negative. It did feel like a really expensive fan film.  But it DID feel like a fan film.  And as much as I have been converted to love Star Trek Continues (precisely because it does NOT feel like a fan film), this thing felt like "look at all this Star Wars stuff you know! AWESOME!"  It reminded me of this ridiculous Darth Maul fan film...people were talking about how cool it was...and I gave it a whirl, and then it just turned into a 15 minute lightsaber battle between Maul and 100 Jedi.  It was the kind of crap fans love to make and see, but what attracts me to the original Star Wars is story. 

And I have to agree with them...there isn't that much story to Rogue One.  I mean sure, it is how they stole the plans...but it didn't have much beyond that.  And since I already knew they succeeded in stealing the plans...not really a story I needed. So it needed great character to make that story I didn't need interesting. And since I don't remember what everyone's name was beyond Jimma or Jemma or whatever her name might've been...I can't give em too much credit.  As a fan film action story?  Pretty great in the last half.  But it doesn't hold too much water in terms of story or characters...so on a movie level it fails a bit.  As I said...if Star Wars doesn't come up with a great story that doesn't overly rely on references and whatnot in Episode VIII...I will begin to lose interest in new entries in this franchise.

And I don't think they were predisposed to disliking it.  I just think they watched it and didn't enjoy it, but it is a big sin on the internet to dislike anything Star Wars. 

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...at the same time they billed this as "A Standalone story" so that argument can't hold THAT much water. At least I recall them saying that a lot. 

I never thought of it (nor do I recall it being billed as) a standalone story; just a side story.  

There's a world of difference.   A standalone story is SW77; it, like "Wizard of Oz", exists fully independent of the sequels if one chooses.   R1 was clearly NOT going to be that movie from the onset, so I still think the criticism of it not being standalone enough is fairly invalid.   

And I don't think they were predisposed to disliking it.  I just think they watched it and didn't enjoy it, but it is a big sin on the internet to dislike anything Star Wars. 

Really?   I've seen whole sites devoted to prequel trilogy hatred.  

I think the audience (as well as the box office) responded as they did because it was a lot of fun.   Is it perfect?  Not by any means.   For me, it's a solid B if I were to grade it, but I applaud the audacity of making an unapologetic fan film strictly for the fans and no one else.    I agree R1 would make a horrible introduction to the SW universe (even TFA is better in that regard), but it R1 never designed to be a first taste.   

But it DID feel like a fan film.  And as much as I have been converted to love Star Trek Continues (precisely because it does NOT feel like a fan film), this thing felt like "look at all this Star Wars stuff you know! AWESOME!"  It reminded me of this ridiculous Darth Maul fan film...people were talking about how cool it was...and I gave it a whirl, and then it just turned into a 15 minute lightsaber battle between Maul and 100 Jedi.  It was the kind of crap fans love to make and see, but what attracts me to the original Star Wars is story. 

STC are amazing, but they are very much fan films as well; I watched "White Iris" in a large auditorium with a largely Doctor Who fan crowd, and there were snickers and even outright laughs at the costumes, the retro-tech, etc.    Their stories aren't 'fannish'; they're professionally and smartly written.  But their trappings are very much fan film in nature.  And that's NOT a demerit.   I enjoy a well-made fan film (good story, characters, etc) because I am a fan.  I make no apologies for that.

But yes, there are bad fan films too.  I've seen that Darth Maul video and as professional as it looked?  It was little more than a Darth Maul workout tape.   Totally agree with you on your point that story should ALWAYS come first.   And while Rogue One had its deficits, the story was an honest one within the Star Wars universe;  it wasn't a sloppy patch work quilt of disharmonious elements; it actually fits quite nicely and elegantly within the greater SW continuity, and it did have a  few memorable standalone characters (K2, Imwe, Baze).   Not perfect, but not the disaster the RLM guys portrayed it either. 

For an expensive fan film?  I think it more than accomplished its goals, even if the fan service was gratuitous at times (they really didn't need AT-ATs to track down a few saboteurs).

 

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I expended a lot of words upthread trying to nail some vague misgivings I had about R1, but I think it's fair comment that it lacks in the character department. For me, it's the big difference between this film and TFA (which, on balance, I preferred). If they'd really worked on a character story threaded through the events depicted, I'd feel more invested.

I think whether you enjoy it or not depends on if your tastes run to this kind of storytelling, because, like it or not, this sort of backstory blank-filing is a major thing these days. See a gap, fill it! Spot the easter eggs! See also: prequels to The Thing or whatever. It isn't only films that do it - genre literature and comics do too. R1 is more about the connective tissue of story than it is a story in itself, and while it does a mostly decent job of joining all the dots, you have to know the other films in the SW franchise to really get the most out of it. I couldn't take Mrs Bland to R1, but she sat down and watched TFA on blu-ray and got a kick out of it. R1 is for a more dedicated fan rather than a casual moviegoer.

I must admit, I have a certain ambivalence about that... Fanboy-Me gets his jollies from it, but Pro-me says it's a development that reinforces self-indulgent, inward-looking tropes rather than reaching for genuine invention and vision - storytelling for all. As a movie, I think R1 is far from being a disaster... but it is a symptom of a much wider cultural phenomenon. Whether it's good or bad is arguable... the only thing I can say for certain is that we're going to get a lot more of it. I don't want to see movies begin to come with "Fan Only" review warnings that effectively render them inaccessible to a more casual audience.

 

Edited by Robin Bland

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I expended a lot of words upthread trying to nail some vague misgivings I had about R1, but I think it's fair comment that it lacks in the character department. For me, it's the big difference between this film and TFA (which, on balance, I preferred). If they'd really worked on a character story threaded through the events depicted, I'd feel more invested.

I think whether you enjoy it or not depends on if your tastes run to this kind of storytelling, because, like it or not, this sort of backstory blank-filing is a major thing these days. See a gap, fill it! Spot the easter eggs! See also: prequels to The Thing or whatever. It isn't only films that do it - genre literature and comics do too. R1 is more about the connective tissue of story than it is a story in itself, and while it does a mostly decent job of joining all the dots, you have to know the other films in the SW franchise to really get the most out of it. I couldn't take Mrs Bland to R1, but she sat down and watched TFA on blu-ray and got a kick out of it. R1 is for a more dedicated fan rather than a casual moviegoer.

I must admit, I have a certain ambivalence about that... Fanboy-Me gets his jollies from it, but Pro-me says it's a development that reinforces self-indulgent, inward-looking tropes rather than reaching for genuine invention and vision - storytelling for all. As a movie, I think R1 is far from being a disaster... but it is a symptom of a much wider cultural phenomenon. Whether it's good or bad is arguable... the only thing I can say for certain is that we're going to get a lot more of it. I don't want to see movies begin to come with "Fan Only" review warnings that effectively render them inaccessible to a more casual audience.

 

^
That eloquently sums up my only complaint about the movie; its lack of accessibility to non-fans.   That said?  I enjoyed it very much, though I also agree that TFA was a better movie in two most important aspects; accessibility and character.   TFA could easily be one's intro to the SW universe; R1, by its very nature, cannot.  And while some of R1's characters were interesting on face value
, they were simply underdeveloped (I had a similar issue with Gareth Edward's spectacular but shallow "Godzilla" in 2014).. 

At the very least, R1 is nowhere near the creative failures that were the prequel trilogy movies.

As to whether the notion of 'fan-only' movies is a continuing trend?  That's an interesting point.   As viewers become more savvy and missing information about a new movie's backstory is only a google search away, it's very possible we might see a lot more of these 'secret handshake' kind of films.  

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I expended a lot of words upthread trying to nail some vague misgivings I had about R1, but I think it's fair comment that it lacks in the character department. For me, it's the big difference between this film and TFA (which, on balance, I preferred). If they'd really worked on a character story threaded through the events depicted, I'd feel more invested.

I think whether you enjoy it or not depends on if your tastes run to this kind of storytelling, because, like it or not, this sort of backstory blank-filing is a major thing these days. See a gap, fill it! Spot the easter eggs! See also: prequels to The Thing or whatever. It isn't only films that do it - genre literature and comics do too. R1 is more about the connective tissue of story than it is a story in itself, and while it does a mostly decent job of joining all the dots, you have to know the other films in the SW franchise to really get the most out of it. I couldn't take Mrs Bland to R1, but she sat down and watched TFA on blu-ray and got a kick out of it. R1 is for a more dedicated fan rather than a casual moviegoer.

I must admit, I have a certain ambivalence about that... Fanboy-Me gets his jollies from it, but Pro-me says it's a development that reinforces self-indulgent, inward-looking tropes rather than reaching for genuine invention and vision - storytelling for all. As a movie, I think R1 is far from being a disaster... but it is a symptom of a much wider cultural phenomenon. Whether it's good or bad is arguable... the only thing I can say for certain is that we're going to get a lot more of it. I don't want to see movies begin to come with "Fan Only" review warnings that effectively render them inaccessible to a more casual audience.

 

^
That eloquently sums up my only complaint about the movie; its lack of accessibility to non-fans.   That said?  I enjoyed it very much, though I also agree that TFA was a better movie in two most important aspects; accessibility and character.   TFA could easily be one's intro to the SW universe; R1, by its very nature, cannot.  And while some of R1's characters were interesting on face value
, they were simply underdeveloped (I had a similar issue with Gareth Edward's spectacular but shallow "Godzilla" in 2014).. 

At the very least, R1 is nowhere near the creative failures that were the prequel trilogy movies.

As to whether the notion of 'fan-only' movies is a continuing trend?  That's an interesting point.   As viewers become more savvy and missing information about a new movie's backstory is only a google search away, it's very possible we might see a lot more of these 'secret handshake' kind of films.  

:yoda:

Yoda sez: R1 a fun prequel is! Trilogy prequels a lot of suffering were. But any film relatable characters needs.

Beginning to think that "character" just isn't Edwards' forte. R1 is pretty epic, and looks incredible. But his method of scriptwriting - which is basically shooting the film as if it's a storyboard and using the editing suite to sculpt a movie out of that... needs some fine-tuning. Yes, Lucas sort of did that with SW77, but he wrote it first too even while he was describing visuals to Joe Johnston or Ralph McQuarrie. Dialogue existed. And I'll wager he had less footage. He had talented editors like Paul Hirsch and Marcia Lucas helping him. I think maybe you need the literary approach married with the visual a bit more precisely so that characters can breathe and not be dwarfed by visual spectacle.

 

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Sim   

Aren't basically most of the Marvel movies that are being made "fan only" movies?

At least it felt to me this way, because I couldn't be bothered to give a **** about these movies, never having read the comics as a kid.

 

As for Star Wars -- are there even people who haven't seen the OT yet? So I guess SW can afford "fan only" movies... :P

Edited by Sim

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Aren't basically most of the Marvel movies that are being made "fan only" movies?

At least it felt to me this way, because I couldn't be bothered to give a **** about these movies, never having read the comics as a kid.

 

As for Star Wars -- are there even people who haven't seen the OT yet? So I guess SW can afford "fan only" movies... :P

I wrote something funnier originally, but it was too rude to leave here - I'd get banned. :dance:

Your mileage may vary I guess, according to your tastes, especially on any genre film with some kind of ancestry to it. Any continuing story gets weighted down with new interpretations as it evolves, and as fans get ever more invested and (negatively) propietorial, the more disappointment greets them.

If you're in such a position as a storyteller, how much fan service do you put in as an ingredient? In moviemaking of this nature, that sort of thing gets decided more by committee, but if you're doing your own thing, my instinct would to be to say, do what services the story best.

 

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kenman   

Well, when what I mean about the feeling of a fan film, I tend to mean the storytelling...R1 just felt more like references than much of anything of substance, even in the Star Wars universe. It did seem more like the kind of story that a kid would make with toys..."and then the AT-AT is on a beach with stormtroopers!"

References to the classic Star Wars iconography is just gonna begin to wear thin quick I think, it has already worn on the RedLetterMedia crowd it seems...for me not quite yet, but so far we've had an official entry that not only had lots of references to past movies but also referenced the entire structure of the original film...and now a heavy in pointless references fan film. Again I didn't hate it...but I can see where it will begin to bore me to see a movie designed to make a audience of fan boys clap when they see R2D2 and stuff...I can't see myself shelling out for one of these every year. Even my brither who came out of Rogue One loving the whole thing said he is a tad disappointed that when they announced all these spinoff films they were all like "Young Han Solo" and other reference-y kind of things. 

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I expended a lot of words upthread trying to nail some vague misgivings I had about R1, but I think it's fair comment that it lacks in the character department. For me, it's the big difference between this film and TFA (which, on balance, I preferred). If they'd really worked on a character story threaded through the events depicted, I'd feel more invested.

I think whether you enjoy it or not depends on if your tastes run to this kind of storytelling, because, like it or not, this sort of backstory blank-filing is a major thing these days. See a gap, fill it! Spot the easter eggs! See also: prequels to The Thing or whatever. It isn't only films that do it - genre literature and comics do too. R1 is more about the connective tissue of story than it is a story in itself, and while it does a mostly decent job of joining all the dots, you have to know the other films in the SW franchise to really get the most out of it. I couldn't take Mrs Bland to R1, but she sat down and watched TFA on blu-ray and got a kick out of it. R1 is for a more dedicated fan rather than a casual moviegoer.

I must admit, I have a certain ambivalence about that... Fanboy-Me gets his jollies from it, but Pro-me says it's a development that reinforces self-indulgent, inward-looking tropes rather than reaching for genuine invention and vision - storytelling for all. As a movie, I think R1 is far from being a disaster... but it is a symptom of a much wider cultural phenomenon. Whether it's good or bad is arguable... the only thing I can say for certain is that we're going to get a lot more of it. I don't want to see movies begin to come with "Fan Only" review warnings that effectively render them inaccessible to a more casual audience.

 

^
That eloquently sums up my only complaint about the movie; its lack of accessibility to non-fans.   That said?  I enjoyed it very much, though I also agree that TFA was a better movie in two most important aspects; accessibility and character.   TFA could easily be one's intro to the SW universe; R1, by its very nature, cannot.  And while some of R1's characters were interesting on face value
, they were simply underdeveloped (I had a similar issue with Gareth Edward's spectacular but shallow "Godzilla" in 2014).. 

At the very least, R1 is nowhere near the creative failures that were the prequel trilogy movies.

As to whether the notion of 'fan-only' movies is a continuing trend?  That's an interesting point.   As viewers become more savvy and missing information about a new movie's backstory is only a google search away, it's very possible we might see a lot more of these 'secret handshake' kind of films.  

 

:yoda:

Yoda sez: R1 a fun prequel is! Trilogy prequels a lot of suffering were. But any film relatable characters needs.

Well put, this is.   

Prequels lead to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to Disney buyout....:yoda::giggle:

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