Sign in to follow this  
Locutus

Pegg and Jung Back to Work Already on Star Trek 4?

Recommended Posts

Watched Beyond again over the weekend. It really is, far and away my favorite of the BR movies - it just has such a lot of heart. 

On the extras, Jung and Pegg talk a little about how their writing relationship "just clicked" so it seems silly to think they wouldn't try to continue, whether it's for Trek or any other project. Maybe BR gave them a three-picture deal of some kind. 

If it includes a Trek movie, I'd cheer. 

^
Agreed.

It'd be nice, but it's hardly the only explanation for the two of them collaborating on another BR project.

Chris Hemsworth is actually younger than Chris Pine, not a 50-60something who sees his son make captain.  In ST09's new timeline, we see a young George Kirk killed on the day/year of his son's birth in 2233 (George is presumably 30, if Jim Kirk reached his age on his birthday in 2263); now add 30 years to that (STB takes place in 2263).   He couldn't look 30 anymore.   So unless they slather on age makeup or digitally age him, prime George Kirk cannot live to see prime Jim Kirk become Captain AND disappear afterward while looking 30 (even Hemsworth is older than that).  And prime Jim Kirk became captain even later than Kelvin Timeline Jim Kirk.

 

Um, they have makeup, which is used all the time.  Winona Ryder was made up to look like she could have a son Quinto's age.  It's actually not hard at all.  Chris Pine is older than Shatner when Shatner first got the role, and Shatner's Kirk had been captain for awhile when we met him, so it's not a problem there either. 

As for Kirk Prime and his missing dad, if the accident showed him dead, he would believe it.  For example, Kirk Prime was sucked into the nexus.  No one knew he was alive.

First, it'd take a lot of makeup to make Hemsworth looks 60something (the guy's crazy pretty).

Secondly, why do a repeat/variation of a 'Kirk-lost-in-nexus' idea when it was already done before (GEN)?

And thirdly,  two more exciting possibilities exist:  Mirror-George (I love this idea!) or Jim Kirk (either accidentally or intentionally) time-traveling and rescuing his dad from his KT fate somehow.  Frankly, this idea is a bit less appealing to me personally, but still far more interesting than George/Jim having a "Cats in the Cradle" moment together (Zzzzzz... this is supposed to be a movie, not a TV episode).  

Their reunion (if it IS going to happen) has to be spurred on by conflict or drama; otherwise what's the point?  You can't just put Pine and Hemsworth onscreen together just because they're both good-looking men; it has to spur events.   It can't just be father and son sipping beer and chopping wood together.   This is Star Trek, not a sequel to "Courtship of Eddie's Father."  

I really love Kenman's idea of Mirror George for multiple reasons:

*  It reestablishes a KT-version of the Mirror universe (worth it for that alone, but...)

*  It offers a reunion that promises dramatic fireworks

*  It'll put that stupid wannabe-thread about Jim living in the shadow of George to BED.   Frankly, I thought STB did a fine and much more subtle job of that (Jim outliving his dad with renewed vigor for the days ahead, but oh well.... I guess movies need more of a bang at the end, right?). 

 

*  It'd also give Hemsworth a meatier part and a better reason for returning to the role; because technically it's a NEW role...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Mirror Universe on the big screen could be such over the top mustache-twirling fun with plenty of action to boot.

 

It fairly shrieks summer popcorn flick, which is what all three previous films have aimed for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at it that way, every idea is a repeat of something.  You could argue that from the point of view of the prime universe, Spock Prime just disappeared, and is presumed dead. 

Scotty disappeared on the Jenolen, and was presumed dead.

It's really not that specific to the nexus.  In fact, it's nothing like the nexus.  The nexus with Kirk Prime is just an analogy of people presumed dead that weren't.  Even Tholian Web had that.

A lot of fans are sick of time travel.  I'm not, but a lot are.  I totally agree that Kirk time traveling and saving his father would be a great story.

It could reset the Kelvin timeline. 

An adventure with George Kirk Prime wouldn't be any less compelling.  You'd have a situation where there's a fish out of water.  A story that could explore the human condition--namely a son meeting a version of his long lost father.  A father seeing a son that grew up without him.  A connection to the prime universe--something the mainstream audience knows. 

You could also bring back Jennifer Morrison.  It obviously wouldn't just be, George & Jim having a catch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Their reunion (if it IS going to happen) has to be spurred on by conflict or drama; otherwise what's the point? You can't just put Pine and Hemsworth onscreen together just because they're both good-looking men; it has to spur events. It can't just be father and son sipping beer and chopping wood together. This is Star Trek, not a sequel to "Courtship of Eddie's Father." 

One thing to note about Hemsworth's possible return is how early on it was "announced." Like literally before Beyond had hit theaters and a fourth film had been green lit. This tells me that J.J., Simon and the boys were probably hanging out one day, and one of them came up with this amazing story/scenario that involved seeing George Kirk again. If that's the case, the script might already be being written.The big question about Chris Hemsworth involvement still remains though: How?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kenman   

Their reunion (if it IS going to happen) has to be spurred on by conflict or drama; otherwise what's the point? You can't just put Pine and Hemsworth onscreen together just because they're both good-looking men; it has to spur events. It can't just be father and son sipping beer and chopping wood together. This is Star Trek, not a sequel to "Courtship of Eddie's Father." 

One thing to note about Hemsworth's possible return is how early on it was "announced." Like literally before Beyond had hit theaters and a fourth film had been green lit. This tells me that J.J., Simon and the boys were probably hanging out one day, and one of them came up with this amazing story/scenario that involved seeing George Kirk again. If that's the case, the script might already be being written.The big question about Chris Hemsworth involvement still remains though: How?

When announced though, they said that Patrick McCay & JD Payne (the original co-writers of what became Beyond with Orci before it was thrown out) were going to be the writers. As of now they are still the only people attached to write the next film.  In fact all we know of the next film as of yet is the following:

  1. JJ Abrams and Lindsey Weber will Produce
  2. Patrick McCay & JD Payne will write the script
  3. Chris Hemsworth will appear in some way, returning as George Kirk
  4. They will not recast Chekov
  5. There is no named director for the picture

And that is all we know.  Everything else is speculation and who knows what may happen.  Pegg and Jung could end up taking over the script...but there has been no announcement so far. Pegg and Jung are clearly working on something together, but they worked together on Beyond, and maybe in the process they discussed some other idea they both clicked with. Maybe it has nothing to do with Trek. Or maybe they've been hired to work on a Mission: Impossible, a sixth one which is supposed to be in development for 2018.  But no one has been announced as writing that yet either.  So for now I am going to assume they are working on some new project, until they announce otherwise. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The original alleged Star Trek 4 and Hemsworth story is from July, but by October it was, how are they going to do that? Speculative sites that have usually been wrong started the rumor, so it's not likely valid. Variety and io9 running it later proves nothing. They merely got on the bandwagon.

The Kelvin timeline is now canon. They're not going to hit some kind of Voyager reset button and make it all back like hardcore fans want.

George Kirk died in the Kelvin timeline, making it a cheap shot to just include him again like nothing happened, or to have some convoluted time travel explanation. It's the whole Generations thread over again, but instead of it being Shatner Kirk coming back, well into his 80s, it's his alternate Dad coming back, too young to play him.

I suspect this idea had started out merely as a desire to work with bankable Hemsworth again on something. Maybe he was going to be in MI:6? Maybe he will cameo on Star Wars 8? It might have nothing to do with George Kirk, and it probably shouldn't.

A mirror universe set comic book is fine, but a movie wouldn't work. What If comics are going there.

They don't have a story yet for Trek 4, or 14.

Edited by Chimera82405

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it hard to believe that a mirror story will happen.  Movies only come out once every few years, so they can't do stories you would see on TV.  When those stories come out, we want to see the characters we know, not doppelgangers.  Plus, the mirror universe has been done too many times already.  If this were a TV show, I would say go for it.  But it isn't. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it hard to believe that a mirror story will happen.  Movies only come out once every few years, so they can't do stories you would see on TV.  When those stories come out, we want to see the characters we know, not doppelgangers.  Plus, the mirror universe has been done too many times already.  If this were a TV show, I would say go for it.  But it isn't. 

The mirror universe has never been tackled in the movies before; this would still be a first.  And you assume it'd be a mirror story just like the others.   It's really up to the skill of the writers.

Besides, how many times have the movies done revenge stories?   That hasn't stopped them from repeating that formula steadily since 1982...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, but it's been done enough times on TV that it's not really original.  And yes, revenge stories are old too.  As for the skill of the writers, they were competent, but didn't do anything special.  Get me an established writer that has done good things with Star Trek and there would be something to be excited about.  Pegg?  Not so much for me.  His movie wasn't BAD, but it wasn't GREAT. 

We get it--the mirror universe has evil versions of our characters.

And would it even be the same mirror universe?  Or a mirror universe that is the one we followed, and would be a mirror of the prime timeline, not the Kelvin timeline?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kenman   

Well they dont have to full on go Mirror Universe do they...just have Mirror George Kirk come through and disrupt Jim Kirk's life. He just came to terms with himself and his dad's death in Beyond...now a test of himself and his psyche as he meets a versioj of his father who is not the noble hero he has built up in his head, but an evil counterpart from another universe. 

See? That could be an interesting story. Probably not going to be anything like that...but there is potential to an interesting story, that can have action yet focus on character, and uses the mirror universe in a new way. Always possible to put a new spin on an old idea.

My problems with JJ Trek only stemmed from when they didn't really indulge in taking the new route (it looked like they might with Khan and then just went "nope, heres the evil guy out for revenge you know and love!")

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the thing--why would Mirror George come to the Kelvin timeline, and do evil things?  Who would he be?  What would his motivation be?

George Kirk was a good man, but was he that out of the ordinary for a starfleet officer?  Bravery and heroism kind of go with the territory.  It's just how these people are wired.

He did what anyone in his position would do--which is why he was where he was in the first place.  A hero yes, but many starfleet officers would have done the same thing. 

Would he be anyone special in the mirror universe?   So let's say no.  You're Joe Evil in the mirror universe.  Somehow, maybe by accident, you find yourself in the Kelvin timeline.  Now what?

And what are the odds that he meets up with his son?

I do think there are interesting stories involving George Kirk, but I don't see him being a villain as one of them. 

I also am of the belief that there doesn't even need to be a villain in a good Star Trek story.  How about a story about a father and son, a la The Visitor?  Could such a story, with sci-fi elements added in, somehow fill 2 hours?  Assume you can work in the requisite effects. 

The Visitor was an hour that focused on the love of a father and son, and it was chillingly good. 

Anyone with a good father could relate to that.  I don't know if a story like that may gross as much, but grosses are on the downside anyway, and a story like that could be made with a smaller budget and make it up on that end.

But if they pull off a story on that level, word of mouth might make it do a lot better.

In this mirror universe scenario, George Kirk would have to be 20 years older, because otherwise, you have to have time travel AND evil universal travel.

I still say that they could use George Kirk PRIME, which would add an element of familiarity to the audience.  Another prime universe inhabitant in the Kelvin Timeline.

Similar themes that you talked about could be explored here.  Jim just came to terms with his father's death and now is confronted by an alternate version of him--one that raised a legend.  George would be confronting a version of his son that never knew him.  Why does he have to be a villain?

That's compelling.

OR, if you don't want to age George, then pick up the story on the Kelvin, and come up with a way for George to not only survive, but end up 35 years in the future.  Have this be the actual father Jim never knew, and you have a reverse Back to the Future style story that finds two men--the same age, dealing with situations they never thought they'd have to deal with.

There's a lot of the human condition that can be explored here without the mirror universe.

Of course, we will likely get a cameo where the 2 Kirks never meet (ie a flashback), or this version of George will some alien in disguise like Abraham Lincoln.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well they dont have to full on go Mirror Universe do they...just have Mirror George Kirk come through and disrupt Jim Kirk's life. He just came to terms with himself and his dad's death in Beyond...now a test of himself and his psyche as he meets a versioj of his father who is not the noble hero he has built up in his head, but an evil counterpart from another universe. 

See? That could be an interesting story. Probably not going to be anything like that...but there is potential to an interesting story, that can have action yet focus on character, and uses the mirror universe in a new way. Always possible to put a new spin on an old idea.

My problems with JJ Trek only stemmed from when they didn't really indulge in taking the new route (it looked like they might with Khan and then just went "nope, heres the evil guy out for revenge you know and love!")

At least it would bring some freshness to George Kirk's return, because KT Kirk has already made his peace with his father's passing; that was his character's arc in STB.   They've covered that already.   Seeing his normal, prime (or KT) dad again would just undo all of that character growth and put James Kirk back at square one.   We've already had Kirk take two steps forward, one step back in STID (his stupid promotion/demotion/promotion mini-arc that lasted all of 15 minutes).

Personally I wish they weren't doing a George Kirk story, but if they have to do it?  I'd at least like them to do a fresh spin on it than father and son having a "Cats in the Cradle" moment.   Make them antagonists.  

Oh, and to those who think they've done too many mirror universe stories?  I have to wonder; how many character-out-of-time stories have we seen?   Just in the movies alone we've had two: "The Voyage Home" (Gillian Taylor) and "Generations" with Kirk.  Not to mention "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" TNG's "Relics" DS9's "Accession" "Yesterday's Enterprise," etc.   The list is too long for this post.  But we've never had a mirror universe movie, and these movies aren't just made for the rabid fan who's gobbled up every episode 50 times each; they're also made for newbies as well.   

But I think a mirror universe movie (esp. in the rougher, grittier KT timeline) could be a lot of fun.   More fun than George and Jim sipping a couple of beers together. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kenman   

Well they dont have to full on go Mirror Universe do they...just have Mirror George Kirk come through and disrupt Jim Kirk's life. He just came to terms with himself and his dad's death in Beyond...now a test of himself and his psyche as he meets a versioj of his father who is not the noble hero he has built up in his head, but an evil counterpart from another universe. 

See? That could be an interesting story. Probably not going to be anything like that...but there is potential to an interesting story, that can have action yet focus on character, and uses the mirror universe in a new way. Always possible to put a new spin on an old idea.

My problems with JJ Trek only stemmed from when they didn't really indulge in taking the new route (it looked like they might with Khan and then just went "nope, heres the evil guy out for revenge you know and love!")

At least it would bring some freshness to George Kirk's return, because KT Kirk has already made his peace with his father's passing; that was his character's arc in STB.   They've covered that already.   Seeing his normal, prime (or KT) dad again would just undo all of that character growth and put James Kirk back at square one.   We've already had Kirk take two steps forward, one step back in STID (his stupid promotion/demotion/promotion mini-arc that lasted all of 15 minutes).

Personally I wish they weren't doing a George Kirk story, but if they have to do it?  I'd at least like them to do a fresh spin on it than father and son having a "Cats in the Cradle" moment.   Make them antagonists.  

Oh, and to those who think they've done too many mirror universe stories?  I have to wonder; how many character-out-of-time stories have we seen?   Just in the movies alone we've had two: "The Voyage Home" (Gillian Taylor) and "Generations" with Kirk.  Not to mention "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" TNG's "Relics" DS9's "Accession" "Yesterday's Enterprise," etc.   The list is too long for this post.  But we've never had a mirror universe movie, and these movies aren't just made for the rabid fan who's gobbled up every episode 50 times each; they're also made for newbies as well.   

But I think a mirror universe movie (esp. in the rougher, grittier KT timeline) could be a lot of fun.   More fun than George and Jim sipping a couple of beers together. 

I agree.  I'd much rather George Kirk be something antagonistic then just "gee dad! glad to meet you!"  I too would rather they just left George Kirk dead in this universe (since it is the catalyst for this universe and all), but if they are going to do it for the Hemsworth star power, do it in an interesting way at least. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well they dont have to full on go Mirror Universe do they...just have Mirror George Kirk come through and disrupt Jim Kirk's life. He just came to terms with himself and his dad's death in Beyond...now a test of himself and his psyche as he meets a versioj of his father who is not the noble hero he has built up in his head, but an evil counterpart from another universe. 

See? That could be an interesting story. Probably not going to be anything like that...but there is potential to an interesting story, that can have action yet focus on character, and uses the mirror universe in a new way. Always possible to put a new spin on an old idea.

My problems with JJ Trek only stemmed from when they didn't really indulge in taking the new route (it looked like they might with Khan and then just went "nope, heres the evil guy out for revenge you know and love!")

At least it would bring some freshness to George Kirk's return, because KT Kirk has already made his peace with his father's passing; that was his character's arc in STB.   They've covered that already.   Seeing his normal, prime (or KT) dad again would just undo all of that character growth and put James Kirk back at square one.   We've already had Kirk take two steps forward, one step back in STID (his stupid promotion/demotion/promotion mini-arc that lasted all of 15 minutes).

Personally I wish they weren't doing a George Kirk story, but if they have to do it?  I'd at least like them to do a fresh spin on it than father and son having a "Cats in the Cradle" moment.   Make them antagonists.  

Oh, and to those who think they've done too many mirror universe stories?  I have to wonder; how many character-out-of-time stories have we seen?   Just in the movies alone we've had two: "The Voyage Home" (Gillian Taylor) and "Generations" with Kirk.  Not to mention "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" TNG's "Relics" DS9's "Accession" "Yesterday's Enterprise," etc.   The list is too long for this post.  But we've never had a mirror universe movie, and these movies aren't just made for the rabid fan who's gobbled up every episode 50 times each; they're also made for newbies as well.   

But I think a mirror universe movie (esp. in the rougher, grittier KT timeline) could be a lot of fun.   More fun than George and Jim sipping a couple of beers together. 

I agree.  I'd much rather George Kirk be something antagonistic then just "gee dad! glad to meet you!"  I too would rather they just left George Kirk dead in this universe (since it is the catalyst for this universe and all), but if they are going to do it for the Hemsworth star power, do it in an interesting way at least. 

I'm sure it'd be a lot more fun for the actor as well.   And it'd probably make a convincing argument for him to return to the franchise after his runaway post-ST09 success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this