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Robin Bland

Definitely no more Bryan Fuller

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Sim   

The rest of the team is still solid, so I'm good.

Yes... no reason to call it a failure. It could still be amazing.

But Fuller just seemed to have the right ideas.

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The rest of the team is still solid, so I'm good.

Yes... no reason to call it a failure. It could still be amazing.

But Fuller just seemed to have the right ideas.

^
Well, this is a bit disappointing, but the reason is clear and pretty unassailable; he wants to give his primary series his full attention.   At any rate, if Nicholas Meyer is still aboard in an advisory capacity?  I'm still very curious to see what this new series has to offer (not to mention the fact that Fuller seemed to have set the course before he left). 

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Always the optimist - none of this is an indication of the show's potential eventual quality, but in an age where the smallest morsel of backstage disagreement gets blown up to vast proportions, it's definitely a PR blow.

But without context, or the full(er) story, it's impossible to know what's going on here. I'm sure we'll eventually find out, but CBS might want to reassure old-time fans sometime soon if they're serious about getting people to lay out cash for this new show.

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And I suspect the diverse casting ideas he had are also gone, including the commander who might be LGBT, but that doesn't mean the show would be awful because of that. It just means it likely will go more mainstream, and that might be not his vision, as he has nothing to do with it anymore. Yep, studio messed with the idea, and he just doesn't want to say. College age Fuller got a good gig with the DS9 he was involved in, as contemporary Ken Piller did with Voyager. Is Bad Robot just trying to sweep away the old guard and put in their own? Maybe a little. Meyer is probably next. The other two are also part of it, so maybe there's a chance with them it won't be awful. They claim to already be making money on the advertising.

American Gods looks to me like it's Assassin's Creed (killer must do jobs for his destiny in some other plane or something) meets Thor (well Odin) meets SHIELD (stark shadowy heroes, and similar to Heroes, have an organization) meets X Files (that ending trailer tease in the field with the old guy, Odin I guess, sounding like the Smoking Man about the future. with a little bit of Twin Peaks tossed in. It's based on a book apparently, a short one, so most of it is added. I can't see it being anything more than a miniseries, at least from the trailer.

Also Fuller gave up Star Trek for that from some 16 year old series adaptation of a novel cribbing from myths and a lot of Marvel basically? Really? If they offered any of us fan writers a gig like that, it would be, okay all bets are off, we are going to produce Star Trek. But that's just me.

Sure AG it might be good, but that teaser struck me as, hey it's a premise that's neat, like Firefly was, but just give it a season and it's gone. Miniseries would have been a better fit. A miniseries can be made of AG. Just an opinion.

So the studio likely made changes he would rather not discuss and he left. It would have been interesting to know what they did. But given how they have so far handled the 50th, I can make some educated guesses already, as have we all. If it comes out darker, has a hot cast of steamy straight people, a hot commander who fights, and some other weird aliens, it probably will be meh.

Edited by Chimera82405

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kenman   

Having read what he has said on it...it at least seems like he hasn't left the show in chaos, or that things have changed drastically without his leadership or hand guiding it.  So I am not worried about it become too whitewashed or anything. 

And I suspect the diverse casting ideas he had are also gone, including the commander who might be LGBT, but that doesn't mean the show would be awful because of that. It just means it likely will go more mainstream, and that might be not his vision, as he has nothing to do with it anymore. Yep, studio messed with the idea, and he just doesn't want to say.

You have no basis for this assertion.  I really doubt that have to much lauded publicity and excitement towards the idea of LGBT characters, that they will throw that out because they are afraid they might scare off what few viewers haven't seen a gay character in every other show that it is out now (which is far more prevalent and Trek is just far behind the curve on this one)...I doubt they will drop that idea.  And I don't think this was so much a manner of his ideas being tampered with (because again, this isn't network, it is a web-series), I really think he has contractual obligations to another show...and maybe the pressure of Trek was looming on a tight schedule...he took on too much, and then when the pressure and time limit on Trek began to mount he just thought...I need to let this one go.  He is still the Co-creator, so they haven't thrown out his script or his ideas...and he even made it clear that if there is a second season there is always a possibility he returns in some capacity or another.

I am only going off what has been said so far. I could be off base, but I don't think that they are gonna whitewash this show at this stage of the game.

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Having read what he has said on it...it at least seems like he hasn't left the show in chaos, or that things have changed drastically without his leadership or hand guiding it.  So I am not worried about it become too whitewashed or anything. 

And I suspect the diverse casting ideas he had are also gone, including the commander who might be LGBT, but that doesn't mean the show would be awful because of that. It just means it likely will go more mainstream, and that might be not his vision, as he has nothing to do with it anymore. Yep, studio messed with the idea, and he just doesn't want to say.

You have no basis for this assertion.  I really doubt that have to much lauded publicity and excitement towards the idea of LGBT characters, that they will throw that out because they are afraid they might scare off what few viewers haven't seen a gay character in every other show that it is out now (which is far more prevalent and Trek is just far behind the curve on this one)...I doubt they will drop that idea.  And I don't think this was so much a manner of his ideas being tampered with (because again, this isn't network, it is a web-series), I really think he has contractual obligations to another show...and maybe the pressure of Trek was looming on a tight schedule...he took on too much, and then when the pressure and time limit on Trek began to mount he just thought...I need to let this one go.  He is still the Co-creator, so they haven't thrown out his script or his ideas...and he even made it clear that if there is a second season there is always a possibility he returns in some capacity or another.

I am only going off what has been said so far. I could be off base, but I don't think that they are gonna whitewash this show at this stage of the game.

^
Yeah, I can'
t imagine them going retro with the casting because... well, NO ONE goes retro with series casting these days.  Honestly, I can't remember the last time I saw an all-whitebread cast show that wasn't a rerun from Nick At Nite. 

They will go with diverse casting.  Fuller certainly isn't the only producer promoting diverse casting.   Most do, in fact. 

Even Supergirl has a black James Olson, and a gay stepsister. 

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I don't know... why do we think this happened? I was never sold that Fuller was the Trek messiah (maybe I was a little)... but I wonder about the creative fall out. Was he fired because CBS did not approve of the direction of the show, and will now seek to change it? If so, will that make it better, worse, or a wash? Or is the creative direction of the show set, and he is handing over the reins for no other reason that other commitments? Fuller will have been leading  DSC for more than half of its lifespan. CBS has to start filming soon to meet its new premier. Whether he would have been good, bad or indifferent, losing the show runner weeks away from start of filming is concerning.    

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Sim   

And I suspect the diverse casting ideas he had are also gone, including the commander who might be LGBT, ...

If you don't have any sources unknown to us, all you write here is just speculation with no fact to support it.

All we know at this point is that Fuller is no longer involved in the show. Even the assumption that this was for a different reason than Fuller claims, like disagreement of the studio with his creative direction, is mere speculation at this point. Might well be the case that what Fuller said -- scheduling problems --  really is the sole reason.

Unless we get more info, we won't know.

And even if I was to speculate and indeed assume for a moment the studio fired him because of creative disagreement -- even then, I really doubt that LGBT characters were the reason for it. We're in 2016, and LGBT characters are no novelty on tv anymore, they're in every third show these days and on pay tv/streaming, that ratio is even higher.

In the end, the show is still in the hands of two showrunners who were mentored by Fuller in the past decade, Nicholas Meyer is still on board, so is Kirsten Beyer and all the others who excited us. And the three people who were cast by now suggest that they're looking for ethnically diverse character actors, which is a good sign.

So before we throw out the baby with the bathwater, why not wait for more information to emerge?

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Locutus   

To me, it seems fairly clear that CBS simply needed to get this product out fast to help relaunch their online platform.  Fuller was overcommitted and likely begged for more production time, but the studio would not agree.  He had to walk because he could not meet their time expectations.  

One could argue that CBS should have caved to Fuller and given him the time to flesh out the show according to his schedule because having Fuller as show runner is worth it.  However, Star Trek is also a business, and I do not entirely begrudge CBS because they have already made a lot of promises to investors that Star Trek has a big role to play in the coming year.  

As a Trek fan and a Fuller fan, I wish the studio had agreed with Fuller.  I am sure Fuller feels bitter about it.  But it does not mean the show is a creative mess.  It just means that Fuller did not have time to flesh out his ideas himself given his conflicting commitments.  I feel bad for Fuller, but I agree with others that this does not foretell DOOM.

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To me, it seems fairly clear that CBS simply needed to get this product out fast to help relaunch their online platform.  Fuller was overcommitted and likely begged for more production time, but the studio would not agree.  He had to walk because he could not meet their time expectations.  

One could argue that CBS should have caved to Fuller and given him the time to flesh out the show according to his schedule because having Fuller as show runner is worth it.  However, Star Trek is also a business, and I do not entirely begrudge CBS because they have already made a lot of promises to investors that Star Trek has a big role to play in the coming year.  

I can't quite agree. I understand the first delay, and I have no doubt CBS does, too. Things were not fleshed out as far as the series goes and in the end it's more critical for them that CBSAA be a successful platform with quality product than to slapdash a show. Fuller likely had solid reasoning.

More delays? How long? Another year? No. The platform has its own commitments to meet. Licensing agreements, for instance, would actually have to be renegotiated if the product didn't start within a set time of signing because those licensees have their own commitments, not including airtime to fill.

I like Fuller. He's talented and seemingly a nice guy having met him in Vegas a couple years back, but, if he overfilled his plate, that has to be his problem. Fuller isn't worth the tens of millions of dollars they stand to lose because he bit off more than he can chew. If Meyer is still there, I have confidence. Hell, Beyer, for me, single-handedly made the Voyager crew relevant.

That takes fracking talent.

I'm still feeling good 

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Exclusive: Bryan Fuller opens up about his departure from the new Star Trek series: "This is the best path"

He's now working on an adaptation of Neil Gaiman's fantasy American Gods.

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/star-trek-discovery/news/a816077/bryan-fuller-opens-up-about-his-departure-from-the-new-star-trek-series-this-is-the-best-path/

Gus

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Exclusive: Bryan Fuller opens up about his departure from the new Star Trek series: "This is the best path"

He's now working on an adaptation of Neil Gaiman's fantasy American Gods.

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/star-trek-discovery/news/a816077/bryan-fuller-opens-up-about-his-departure-from-the-new-star-trek-series-this-is-the-best-path/

Gus

He wanted more religion in his show? Wasn't DS9 about a religion, or at least addressed one, the Bajorans and their Prophets, even if it was alien?

American Gods looks like it might last one season. My earlier point is one doesn't simply give up the chance to helm a 50 year old reboot of a classic show, that makes money, for a completely new and far riskier project, a Marvel comics clone, or what it looks like from the trailer. Maybe AG will be amazing. Maybe the trailer is just not very good. Other high concept shows have had a good start, but been decimated by interference. (Firefly, Gravity the series).

If he wanted more religion, then he evidently wanted less bias. Some religions shun LGBT people. This does not make sense. In the past few months, did he get born again?

Yes they have cast a gay actor in a role, but was it Fuller's idea all along, or someone elses? I just do not want to see them make it a cliche, as Hollywood tends to do that.

I have not seen Supergirl, but hopefully the gay character is portrayed as a person, not just the person with a label. On TV they are usually given hyper excited roles and come off over the top.

Y'all do realize that the insider buzz and propaganda would report constantly the most positive spin on a creative difference with a producer, not so much with directors though. Directors get fired all the time. It looks like he wasn't fired. (A lot on your plate is a buzz term like 'i would rather not say'). The tabloids say he decided to leave because he had a lot on his plate. Okay. (Right now he can't say). That is what they're telling the press. He wasn't fired. Not like Orci. I never claimed he was fired. He left. You can bet there is something between the lines and we're not going to know what it is. It's just the way it works.

It's good they are keeping the character he put in, but he is not a female. He's a guy. Already there have been changes.

Well I do not wish the new show (or American Gods) any ill will. Any on of us would jump at the chance to be on Star Trek.

It is odd he seemed to want more religion. Any thoughts as to what he meant? Isn't that contrary to other statements?

This might be a little KM. But also take note that in Christianity, if the hyper 'don't like those other people' ones actually read about Jesus Christ, the emissary on Earth, Christ never said anything about homosexuality.

And we are all speculating. I believe the commentary earlier was a given. I could type 'IMHO' but I was sure you got that. But if I find out anything from other sites, like this fine scoop this morning, I will post it.

The other producers might do fine. It's not lie, as one of you implied, he will save Star Trek. So they might be fine.

Edited by Chimera82405

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Exclusive: Bryan Fuller opens up about his departure from the new Star Trek series: "This is the best path"

He's now working on an adaptation of Neil Gaiman's fantasy American Gods.

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/star-trek-discovery/news/a816077/bryan-fuller-opens-up-about-his-departure-from-the-new-star-trek-series-this-is-the-best-path/

Gus

He wanted more religion in his show? Wasn't DS9 about a religion, or at least addressed one, the Bajorans and their Prophets, even if it was alien?

He didn't say he wanted Star Trek to have more religion; he said he wanted to work on a show that could better comment on religion in modern society.   Difference.

If he wanted more religion, then he evidently wanted less bias. Some religions shun LGBT people. This does not make sense. In the past few months, did he get born again?

Yes they have cast a gay actor in a role, but was it Fuller's idea all along, or someone elses? I just do not want to see them make it a cliche, as Hollywood tends to do that.

I have not seen Supergirl, but hopefully the gay character is portrayed as a person, not just the person with a label. On TV they are usually given hyper excited roles and come off over the top.

Yes, some religions shun LGBT people; but ST isn't going to directly comment on present-day religion anyway.  Most likely it would simply comment on them (if it comments on religion AT ALL) via the metaphor of an alien culture somehow as it's always done. 

As for Supergirl, the gay character was only recently outed as gay on the show, and the whole subplot kind of feels more '90s than now;  frankly, it's kind of clumsily handled.  I've had (many) people come out to me in real life (friends and family) and it's never been done with any particular drama or any of the raised eyebrows we saw on Supergirl.   The show wasn't anti-gay but it was shown with more hubbub than I think it'd be in the real world (esp. in a major metropolitan city like the fictional "National City"; which seems to be an L.A. surrogate). 

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LA, (Los Angeles) and to more an extent, SF (San Francisco), has a very vocal LGBT community and many of them have worked in the industries, such a film and TV, for years. The producers though are still uneasy, even in 2016, about making a sympathetic gay character work, or so it would seem. They still see the dollar signs that might go away from the conservative watchers, and they don't want to do that.

It seems the new Star Trek may be one of the first not to make it a big issue, and that would be best. The person on the ship might just happen to be gay. It won't make him or her any more 'different' or unusual. They handled a little scene in Beyond well. Maybe though the older production heads might still be conservative and might balk, even though they likely have vocal LGBT people working under them in some capacity, production wise.

Well at least a show about Odin, or with him as a central figure, is not going to confound anyone about Christians. The Greek Gods aren't exactly that.

Yes, DS9 did handle religion through aliens, and this should do the same.

However, Nick Meyer hinted at in a recent article that TUC was too set in the 1990s and he didn't want to make the next show too set in the 2016 period either. This is a good isgn he is not going to write say, a story about the recent presidential race. It would be instantly dated. Or I was probably reading too much into his comments there.

It would be interesting to do an episode about a colony where a president, leader or some other important rich figure has taken over unfairly and is trying to destroy the prime directive, and it turns out he's a rogue from Starfleet, or something. It has been done. Maybe that's a way to make it topical without quoting from current events. It's better not to make a story with actual quotes from current events, as it is dated immediately.

Edited by Chimera82405

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It would be interesting to do an episode about a colony where a president, leader or some other important rich figure has taken over unfairly and is trying to destroy the prime directive, and it turns out he's a rogue from Starfleet, or something. It has been done. Maybe that's a way to make it topical without quoting from current events. It's better not to make a story with actual quotes from current events, as it is dated immediately.

^
Hasn't the rogue admiral/authority figure kind of been done to death on Star Trek, though?  I'd hope the new show has better ideas up its sleeves than that tired ST trope...

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