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prometheus59650

The problem with starting a show post-Nemesis.

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I've never had a problem with writing post Nemesis stories. Nothing ends here. There is no "ending" to the Federation or its principles or the stories that can be told. Why would there be? There are so many moments in TNG, so many loose ends, so many characters, so many possibilities for new plots and new environments (also meaning: Going back to exploration, not "which enemy of the week threatens the fabric of the Federation again this time - bleh -)... I don't see the issue. Okay, I'm coming from a strictly TNG character-centered fan fic viewpoint, but still. 

Besides, no one's really asking for a show set directly after Nemesis. That would indeed be somewhat unwise due to constraints and canon limitations (it is something for the fan fic faction tho!) - what people seem to want the most is a show set quite a few decades or even a century after Nemesis. See how the Federation does in that far away future. It offers new players, new pieces/players on the intergalactic chess board... I don't see how it's a problem and I don't see how any of it could make anyone run into a brick wall. Besides, ENT clearly showed that doing a prequel is NOT the way to go. Television Trek has always been about going FORWARD. Of course you need new ideas and new writers, that goes without saying - and I really don't think Berman, who was at the helm of Trek for FAR too long, is the right person to ask or cite as an example here. He and his writers ran out of ideas so badly that they re-hashed older plots over and over again on VOY and ENT. This is not the fault of Trek as a franchise though. It's the fault of the same guy being in charge for far too long.

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My only problem with the era has only been the technology. There's too much wizardry for my taste, but that's about it for me.

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My only problem with the era has only been the technology. There's too much wizardry for my taste, but that's about it for me.

Yeah, the temptation to just write miracle technology that solves everything is high. However, if you put the characters and the story in front of it all and don't allow for too much technobabble in the first place, things work out just fine usually. :) 

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It would be difficult to have a series in a post nemesis world with the same overly optimistic viewpoint of humanity as the original Star Trek. TV and the U.S. culture has changed. You could have a series that looks to the past as a kind of golden age that they are striving to get back to. 

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It would be difficult to have a series in a post nemesis world with the same overly optimistic viewpoint of humanity as the original Star Trek. TV and the U.S. culture has changed. You could have a series that looks to the past as a kind of golden age that they are striving to get back to. 

If you want to look to the bookverse or ST:O, that would be sort of what it has to be. I don't think the largely settled and chill TNG universe would play today at all.

Edited by prometheus59650

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Why not tell all the stuff that lead to the temporal cold war? Sure, it may have seemed out of plce on a prequel such as ENT, but the idea actually is pretty fascinating. 

 

 

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I read the article and the comments and agree only with the writers having bee pushed into a corner. It is so many years past, Nemesis, 14 years later, that they could hire on new writers that would bring something new. Hollywood studios though seem to be more about 'can we make it like last year's hit show" instead of can we make it good. They might not do the 'original narrative' only because it is much harder to be creative than be a committee of people telling each other to write it like some other show. It's a weird business.

(We've been over Nemesis and why it did not work, from a weak script that needed at least another rewrite, to an actually boring 'evil twin' idea that they never should have done, to it being essentially Wrath of Khan but with Data dying, and no 'search for Data' afterward because it ended the timeline. The relaunch novels went on from there. It has been continued, Just not on TV. They've been trying to trash and destroy an Enterprise for every film since. They succeeded in the last one. Trek 2009 was essentially Nemesis but slicker, and Into Darkness was everything TWOK but backward (Kirk not Spock) about that same story, (Kirk is healed like B4 has Data's memories) only it really is Khan, or not. Beyond was something different).

How about for the next film they drop the 'we need a black hat villain of the week' and 'we need to blow up the ship' and do some freaking exploring. That is how to attract both fans and non fans.

I think we 'need and optimistic future' now more than ever. Isn't the dark brooding world ending stuff getting tedious? I find TNG refreshing and classic TOS also. If I want to see dark and fear mongering stories, the national news will do. I do not want to see that on my entertainment! Sure I can pretend it's not there, but isn't that the poiont of fantasy? You want an escape from the mundane, not to live in it.

Over stimulation although is not so thrilling either. You don't want a series that just tosses weird pretty visuals at you for 45 minutes. Not saying they need some glum procedural show idea. Not saying they need to have some over written drama show. They just need something that isn't high camp melodrama, isn't dreary, and is written excellently and creatively.

A dreary post Sept 11 show already got made. It was called Battlestar Galactica. Fine. Not Star Trek, but fine. Don't do that.

The Online game is probably not the way to go either, as it is too much like a strategy and war thing. Must we be at war with everyone?

Production and writers tend toward long war story arcs when they don't have a solid idea of what the characters are, (or they miss the point) and who they are, and all they want to do is shoot something. It is a cheat, although visually stunning to have space battles, and it gets tedious too, because all you are doing s showing the glossy space battles and not the characters and how they relate.

It is much easier to take the Game of Thrones route and kill off main characters. (So what I've heard. I've never watched it).

It was easier for Enterprise to do the made up temporal war and Xindi than do the actual Romulan conflict because it would have been hard to write around that whole 'we never got to see them' thing.

But I totally think a post Nemesis idea could work, maybe as an animated series or as a miniseries movie, reuniting the best of the TNG to VGR era characters doing something cool.

Edited by Chimera82405

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I agree that ST shouldn't go as dark as Battlestar G. But it can't be over the top hopeful either. I'd like to see an optimistic crew in a universe that is dark at times. People that stick to their ideals even when it is difficult. 

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It's not really a problem. There are solutions to everything that essay posits as one - it's just whether the studio or a showrunner will want to do it. Fuller's frankly disappointing direction of making a prequel is not the only way, for sure.

I believe you could make a Star Trek for a modern audience that is still gritty and dramatic without sacrificing the optimism and overall spirit of the show, as everyone above attests. The novelists do it, gamers do it, fan-fic writers like Mr.PIcard do it. It's whether the studio will decide to do it - it is simply the decision of extending the canon as it exists, but setting it in a situation that new storytellers don't have to feel hidebound by all that continuity. (And, indeed, all the wizard-magic-tech.) There are a lot of ways of doing that.

 

 

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It's not really a problem. There are solutions to everything that essay posits as one - it's just whether the studio or a showrunner will want to do it. Fuller's frankly disappointing direction of making a prequel is not the only way, for sure.

I believe you could make a Star Trek for a modern audience that is still gritty and dramatic without sacrificing the optimism and overall spirit of the show, as everyone above attests. The novelists do it, gamers do it, fan-fic writers like Mr.PIcard do it. It's whether the studio will decide to do it - it is simply the decision of extending the canon as it exists, but setting it in a situation that new storytellers don't have to feel hidebound by all that continuity. (And, indeed, all the wizard-magic-tech.) There are a lot of ways of doing that.

 

 

This. It all comes down to creative freedom and the studio's willingness to go along with it. And to writers who know their Trek BUT are willing to expand it to make it fit into modern television times and yet preserve the essence of what it was once supposed to be. Making a show that is set quite a bit of time after Nemesis allows for this kind of setting, just like TNG did back then. 

Also, you'll face the problem of repetitiveness in EVERY era, no matter which one you set the series in, it's a constant danger due to the huge amount of episodes that are already there. You are bound to repeat concepts, it's just a matter of HOW you do it, you CAN make your audience like your stuff anyway if you're creative enough. I would even go as far as to say that a prequel is a LOT more confining creativity-wise than a way-post-Nemesis show because you have only a VERY narrow window of what kind of stories you can tell. (Another reason why I will never understand why they all seem so obsessed with making prequels. It's extremely limiting, for both creativity and storytelling.... at least if you want to stick to canon and not create "new interpretations" of it. That one worked well on ENT already. Not.) 

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It's not really a problem. There are solutions to everything that essay posits as one - it's just whether the studio or a showrunner will want to do it. Fuller's frankly disappointing direction of making a prequel is not the only way, for sure.

I believe you could make a Star Trek for a modern audience that is still gritty and dramatic without sacrificing the optimism and overall spirit of the show, as everyone above attests. The novelists do it, gamers do it, fan-fic writers like Mr.PIcard do it. It's whether the studio will decide to do it - it is simply the decision of extending the canon as it exists, but setting it in a situation that new storytellers don't have to feel hidebound by all that continuity. (And, indeed, all the wizard-magic-tech.) There are a lot of ways of doing that.

^

 You-Got-It-Dude-Michelle-Reaction-Gif-On

Very much agree.

The ability is there; it's up to studios to have as much imagination & vision as the fans and the community of storytellers who could do post-NEM ST justice.  And yes, judging by the works of our own Mr. Picard?  I can tell you that it CAN be done. ;)

 

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"Regarding Enterprise, longtime Star Trek executive producer Rick Berman once explained: “to go forward didn’t really offer us very much. To go forward meant spaceships that were a little sleeker and ships that were a little shinier, but there wasn’t that much to invent that we hadn’t invented already.”"

This is proof this idiot understands nothing. I enjoyed ENT, but I won't play dumb. ENT "reinvented" (rehashed) episodes/plots/techs/characters like crazy. So what was the point of retreating into a prequel to escape this if you were going to do it with the prequel anyways?

This is simply laziness. Period. There is plenty to be said about the post-TNG era. As for canon violations - Memory Alpha will take care of you.

The biggest reason I want a post-TNG era show is .... what was the point of creating this rich universe with incredible events and characters throughout TNG, DS9, and VOY only to say "Ok... well ... we'll never go back to that again. We'll never truly see an end to all that."

I'm not saying I want a show where it's nothing but explanations to the end of TNG/DS9/VOY but it would be nice to see the franchise continue beyond on that time period.

The problem with Trek, as others have pointed out, is it got too advanced too fast. Between the above three shows, the way the UFP pumps out super advanced tech of the week? It makes story writing so hard. It's why I don't like writing Trek stories on Earth because I simply cannot conceptualize a planet with no money and everyone sharing. Plus, it's boring.

The one good thing I will say about Abramsverse is humans are a bit rough around the edges again and probably much easier to write.

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