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StillKirok

The Borg-Picard's fault?

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Am I the only one that heard Spock's sarcasm when he noted how much Khan was using the ship's library?   Or that snarkasm, "Khan was very thorough in his study of our technical manuals."  Clearly Spock didn't agree with Kirk's decision, but he wasn't in the room when Kirk gave Khan access.  THAT'S why he didn't object.  

Yeah, there was some "Maybe that wasn't the hottest idea" in there.

Edited by prometheus59650

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"Tell me, computer, where are all the weaknesses on the ship and where is life support, engineering, and auxiliary control", which should have alerted the guy running the database,

And that's just ridiculous that  you could ask that and get an answer. I know that Khan has to get this info to propel the episode, but there's no realistic way, in the episode, for him to get them other than making Kirk an idiot.

McGivers shouldn't have been an Historian and I'm not sure that that's necessarily a position you need on a starship. Now, if she were an Engineer with a minor in History, I could buy the rest of it. In that case, then the basic schematics gave him ideas and she filled in the rest. That makes sense and works.

Now one might suggest maybe she minored in Engineering? I doubt it. She didn't seem like the sharpest knife in the drawer beyond her expertise, and she had to essentially guess how to work a 4 or 5 button panel to release Kirk.

This was written in the 1960's. 20 years before personal computers. No one involved with Star Trek at the time had ever used a word processor or a spread sheet. Very, very few people in the audience had anything to do with computers.  Computers were huge thing that required a whole room. Data security was not really thought about. Computers were, for most people, a science fiction idea. Very few people had any clue what they were really like in the real world. I wonder what kind of internal security there was on military computers in the middle 1960's. Probably not much. They certainly weren't hooked to the internet. It didn't exist. They might be hooked to a university computer or two.  The bad guy's somehow tricking the computers into giving them the information had a kind of truthiness for a 1960's viewer that just sounds naive today. 

The way it was shown in the show it was like someone asking the captain of a nuclear submarine for the specs of the ship and the captain gave them the web page for the ship. Then the person asked the web page, "How do I break into the weapons locker?" And the computer told him exactly what he wanted to know. 

I don't think it really shows Kirk as a fool. It show's writers who never spent one minute of their lives thinking about computer security.

To Kirk, giving access to the library to a person from the 1990's was like someone today giving internet  access to a time traveler from the 1700's. How much should we expect them to learn in just a few hours? 

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Ultimately, we will never know what Q would have done had Picard reacted with less arrogance, because he reacted with such arrogance.

I would say maybe with the Kelvin timeline, but we'll never get that answer.  For all we know, Earth is going to get destroyed by the Probe.

 

Again, nothing indicates Kirk did anything wrong in Space Seed.  TWOK, when he didn't put the shields up, is another story.  But Space Seed?  No.

And even if that was all Kirk's fault, which it wasn't, it's nothing compared to bringing the Borg to the Federation.

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Ultimately, we will never know what Q would have done had Picard reacted with less arrogance, because he reacted with such arrogance.

I would say maybe with the Kelvin timeline, but we'll never get that answer.  For all we know, Earth is going to get destroyed by the Probe.

 

Again, nothing indicates Kirk did anything wrong in Space Seed.  TWOK, when he didn't put the shields up, is another story.  But Space Seed?  No.

And even if that was all Kirk's fault, which it wasn't, it's nothing compared to bringing the Borg to the Federation.

^
I cry foul. 

You can't just overlook the tech manuals snafu (from a guy who just held the CMO at knifepoint; he wasn't 'fatigued' enough to steal a knife) just because you prefer Kirk to Picard; that's bias, not a valid argument.   Kirk clearly screwed the pooch in Space Seed.   He left sickbay without even posting an armed guard (again, this was AFTER poor McCoy was attacked).   And worse of all; he let Khan and his 72 followers to settle a planet and kept it off the books... thus CREATING the entire framework for the events of TWOK.   It is ALL on Kirk's head.

As for bringing the Borg to the Federation?  Picard didn't.   Q did.  And I'm pretty sure couching a rejection in flowery language wouldn't have prevented that either.   Q was reacting just as much to Picard and Riker's rejection.   Remember, it was initially Riker's 'smug' remark (not Picard's) of "We'll just have to do the best we can without you."  That was the remark that sent Picard to defend his first officer.  When Q said, "What justifies that smugness?  That arrogance?"   Picard then interjected (as any captain would), "Not smugness, not arrogance.  We are determined, we are resolute... and your help is not required."

Seriously, any more polite a rejection and the ship's manicurist would be doing Q's nails.

NOTHING Picard said was atypically cruel or mean-spirited.   He rejected Q because he didn't trust him, and because (as every starship captain we've seen believes) he didn't think he needed his help.   The Borg were coming anyway; as ENT and GEN proved.   All Picard did was reject Q's offer to take him aboard (which no one in their right mind would do), and that sent Q into a hissy fit.  End of story.

Picard is hardly the negligent rogue captain that Kirk was; if Kirk were a by-the-book officer Khan and his people would never see daylight again.   And even if he were legally within his rights to have exiled them on Ceti Alpha V, he should've put it on the books and maybe a marker buoy around the planet to warn others away (the fact that the Ceti Alpha system wasn't quarantined was proof enough that he didn't; as was the fact that Capt. Terrell didn't know Khan or his people). 

 

Again I ask (and no one has satisfactorily answered): If Picard's response to Q was 'wrong', what would've been 'right'?   The only thing Q wanted was a permanent seat on the Enterprise, and Picard (wisely) wasn't going to allow that, so again I ask: what should be the correct response to that no-win scenario?  Any takers?

I've offered a potential solution to the Khan problem, but I've yet to hear any recommendation that would've changed Picard's circumstances beyond 'he coulda been more polite when he rejected him.'   That's not a SOLUTION. 

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The Borg were coming anyway, as I don't know any other great force that could scoop the outposts off the surface of the planet as in "The Neutral Zone." Even in all the years since the Federation never encountered another force that worked that way.

I cry foul. 

You can't just overlook the tech manuals snafu (from a guy who just held the CMO at knifepoint; he wasn't 'fatigued' enough to steal a knife) just because you prefer Kirk to Picard; that's bias, not a valid argument.   Kirk clearly screwed the pooch in Space Seed.   He left sickbay without even posting an armed guard (again, this was AFTER poor McCoy was attacked).   And worse of all; he let Khan and his 72 followers to settle a planet and kept it off the books... thus CREATING the entire framework for the events of TWOK.   It is ALL on Kirk's head.

Not too tired to threaten to slit someone's throat, but too tired to give his name is what normal people refer to as a "red flag." 

Edited by prometheus59650

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If Kirk did not violate Starfleet regulations, and there's nothing to indicate that he did, then he did not screw the pooch in Space Seed.  He did nothing wrong.

And there's also nothing to indicate that Kirk's sentencing of Khan to Ceti Alpha V was off the books either.  In fact, it was a formal inquiry which would have been on the record.  He gave Khan a plea bargain.

Khan took it.

Picard of course is responsible for Riker's comment, since he is the captain, and he chose to back him up, and boom.  Borg.

Picard's rejection of Q was not what caused Q to send him to the Borg.  If that were the case, then Q would have waited until Picard asked him to join the crew to get him out of there.  But Q was satisfied that Picard begged him for help and admitted there was something humans couldn't do at that point.

So maybe handling the situation without coming off arrogant would have done the job.

 

Picard isn't the only person to screw up with Q.  Janeway was so dumb that Q owed her a favor and she didn't ask him to send her home, even when he offered.  THAT is an idiot.  But that only affected the lives of her crew, not all the people that died as a result of the Borg.

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If Kirk did not violate Starfleet regulations, and there's nothing to indicate that he did, then he did not screw the pooch in Space Seed.  He did nothing wrong.

Except common sense. Who hands out active military secrets to strangers?

And there's also nothing to indicate that Kirk's sentencing of Khan to Ceti Alpha V was off the books either.  In fact, it was a formal inquiry which would have been on the record.  He gave Khan a plea bargain.

And Kirk clearly expunged the entire record. How do I know? Because Starfleet knew nothing about it. How do I know?

- Ceti Alpha V was not under quarantine. Given the laws and paranoia that exists in the Federation even 100 years later about the prospect of genetic supermen, there is no way Starfleet would have risked anyone getting near that world so that those people might escape. Starfleet knew nothing about Khan or what Kirk did.

So maybe handling the situation without coming off arrogant would have done the job.

 So what would you have done? What's the right response?

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Yes, simply put the writers had no idea how computers worked and didn't think some 50 years later people would be discussing the minutia of Kirk's decision later. It is still a boneheaded thing to do, as Spock eluded to. But yes, then Space Seed never would have happened had Kirk followed protocol as a military commander. He would have not allowed Khan any access, except for non classified records.

Even in the 1960s, on say a military battleship, or more accurately a UN science ship, one did not let a guest look through operational records, and surely not a then known previous villain from another era. Let's say this science ship finds a former Nazi (because they were the threat  years prior) commander, which would be possible in the 1960s, (as he would be likely around and alive). They would not gleefully give him access to the operational records, regardless of technology of the time. Files in a drawer for instance. The ship commander would have to radio to command about it, (and Kirk did not even tell anyone). (I am using this as an example, and also a few TOS episodes even dealt with rogue commanders from their own time doing stuff on planets, including one about a captain who patterned a planet after the Nazis, as they sure a heck would not do that for real, so it's fantasy).

Some might say, well we created the US rocketry program with former Nazis, but (in the fictional universe) Khan was not a rocket expert, and they knew he was a bad guy, and yet they let him hang out in sick bay and look over their files. That does seem kind of insane.

This is weird because several producers and writers of the time served in WW2 and would have known that the scene was silly. I still chalk this up to 'nobody is going to obsess over that. They're just going to watch it'. Oh little did they know. Ha.

 

Edited by Chimera82405

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Yes, simply put the writers had no idea how computers worked and didn't think some 50 years later people would be discussing the minutia of Kirk's decision later. It is still a boneheaded thing to do, as Spock eluded to. But yes, then Space Seed never would have happened had Kirk followed protocol as a military commander. He would have not allowed Khan any access, except for non classified records.

Even in the 1960s, on say a military battleship, or more accurately a UN science ship, one did not let a guest look through operational records, and surely not a then known previous villain from another era. Let's say this science ship finds a former Nazi (because they were the threat  years prior) commander, which would be possible in the 1960s, (as he would be likely around and alive). They would not gleefully give him access to the operational records, regardless of technology of the time. Files in a drawer for instance. The ship commander would have to radio to command about it, (and Kirk did not even tell anyone). (I am using this as an example, and also a few TOS episodes even dealt with rogue commanders from their own time doing stuff on planets, including one about a captain who patterned a planet after the Nazis, as they sure a heck would not do that for real, so it's fantasy).

Some might say, well we created the US rocketry program with former Nazis, but (in the fictional universe) Khan was not a rocket expert, and they knew he was a bad guy, and yet they let him hang out in sick bay and look over their files. That does seem kind of insane.

This is weird because several producers and writers of the time served in WW2 and would have known that the scene was silly. I still chalk this up to 'nobody is going to obsess over that. They're just going to watch it'. Oh little did they know. Ha.

 

But these are the new more perfect more trusting humans of the future. The world is a utopia with no problems. Of course Kirk trusted Khan. The old style cold war paranoia is gone and the perfect world has begun. Of course, the world is a perfect as the script of the week demanded. 

I think that they just made Khan so incredibly smart that he could just look over non-classified ordinary stuff and figure out how to use them instantly. He didn't need detailed plans, just a good hint. 

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But these are the new more perfect more trusting humans of the future. The world is a utopia with no problems. Of course Kirk trusted Khan.

Not buying that one.

He wasn't handing command of the ship over to Harry Mudd when he met the man in this Utopia before he knew who he was.

Khan? Threatens to slit my CMO's throat, won't give me his first name or answer a basic question and comes from a ship named after an old penal colony from a time of massive political upheaval and bloodshed.  But, hey, sure, study every inch of my ship.

I think that they just made Khan so incredibly smart that he could just look over non-classified ordinary stuff and figure out how to use them instantly. He didn't need detailed plans, just a good hint. 

And I don't think that's how intelligence works. Einstein couldn't figure out how to work the Hadron collider in order to perform experiment X without a manual. With a detailed manual? Sure. But you can't just correctly intuit massive gaps in specific knowledge,

Edited by prometheus59650

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But these are the new more perfect more trusting humans of the future. The world is a utopia with no problems. Of course Kirk trusted Khan.

Not buying that one.

He wasn't handing command of the ship over to Harry Mudd when he met the man in this Utopia before he knew who he was.

Khan? Threatens to slit my CMO's throat, won't give me his first name or answer a basic question and comes from a ship named after an old penal colony from a time of massive political upheaval and bloodshed.  But, hey, sure, study every inch of my ship.

I think that they just made Khan so incredibly smart that he could just look over non-classified ordinary stuff and figure out how to use them instantly. He didn't need detailed plans, just a good hint. 

And I don't think that's how intelligence works. Einstein couldn't figure out how to work the Hadron collider in order to perform experiment X without a manual. With a detailed manual? Sure. But you can't just correctly intuit massive gaps in specific knowledge,

I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think that the writers took shortcuts like they always do. Its like the universal translator. How does that work? How could Khan even understand Kirk. Language change over several hundred years can be pretty extreme.  It's easy to pick apart any episode. I just feel that the writers intended that Kirk didn't break any rules but was probably a little sloppy since Spock objected. They did a poor job of showing it because they took the genius shortcut. Genius's can do anything. You see this short cut all the time in shows. Machines that find stuff in seconds that should take hours or weeks. 

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And it's still a great episode, but it's one of the ones that strains credibility more than most.

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If Kirk did not violate Starfleet regulations, and there's nothing to indicate that he did, then he did not screw the pooch in Space Seed.  He did nothing wrong.

Except common sense. Who hands out active military secrets to strangers?

And there's also nothing to indicate that Kirk's sentencing of Khan to Ceti Alpha V was off the books either.  In fact, it was a formal inquiry which would have been on the record.  He gave Khan a plea bargain.

And Kirk clearly expunged the entire record. How do I know? Because Starfleet knew nothing about it. How do I know?

- Ceti Alpha V was not under quarantine. Given the laws and paranoia that exists in the Federation even 100 years later about the prospect of genetic supermen, there is no way Starfleet would have risked anyone getting near that world so that those people might escape. Starfleet knew nothing about Khan or what Kirk did.

So maybe handling the situation without coming off arrogant would have done the job.

 So what would you have done? What's the right response?

^
This.

And yes, once again SK quickly pointed out that Picard was wrong... yet fails to offer any alternative that would've averted the outcome of "Q Who." 

 

And yes, Kirk DID screw up all over Space Seed.   It's one of the reasons why that episode never even cracks my top 25.  Kirk acts like someone replaced the gutsy, intuitive and compassionate leader we saw in "Corbomite Maneuver" and "Doomsday Machine" with the straw-brained Scarecrow from "Wizard of Oz."

As soon as Khan threatened McCoy's life (by feigning unconsciousness and pulling a stolen knife on him), he should've been placed under guard.  

Once his ID was confirmed, Kirk was OBLIGATED to contact Earth AT ONCE (Khan was a wanted criminal despot; it'd be like a South American president failing to tell the UN that Adolf Hitler is alive and well, and relaxing on a beach somewhere).   He didn't.  

Did he imprison Khan and his men for trying to suffocate both himself and the bridge crew, or for assaulting Lt. Kyle in the transporter room?   NO.  

Did he imprison Joaquin for assaulting a member of his crew, namely Lt. Uhura?  NO.

Did he try McGivers for mutiny?  NO.  

Did he report the whole Khan exile decision to Starfleet?  Obviously not, or TWOK wouldn't have happened and the Ceti Alpha system would've never been considered for Genesis (esp. since there was a human colony there).

^
This is textbook screwing of the pooch.

 

Picard's refusing the offer of the being who'd just abducted him moments earlier is hardly comparable; it's not as if Picard had his crystal ball handy and knew what Q would do (esp. given Q's unpredictable nature).   But seriously, I ask again: What would ANYONE have done differently?  Accept Q at his word?  Take him aboard as a member of the crew with his powers intact (because that worked out so well with Charles Evans a century earlier...). 

So I ask; rather than just say Picard screwed up because he 'wasn't polite enough' (which wouldn't have changed anything), what would YOU have done that would change the outcome of the episode.   I'm not singling out StillKirok, I'm asking anyone who has an answer.... 

 

But these are the new more perfect more trusting humans of the future. The world is a utopia with no problems. Of course Kirk trusted Khan.

Not buying that one.

He wasn't handing command of the ship over to Harry Mudd when he met the man in this Utopia before he knew who he was.

Khan? Threatens to slit my CMO's throat, won't give me his first name or answer a basic question and comes from a ship named after an old penal colony from a time of massive political upheaval and bloodshed.  But, hey, sure, study every inch of my ship.

^
I don't buy the 'Kirk was too trusting because he grew up in utopia' scenario either.   Otherwise he'd have been dead in 5 minutes many times.  

Not to mention that Spock and company already noted the ship was from a 'strange and violent period in Earth's history.'   And that the name was picked from a former penal colony.  There was already suspicion that it might be some kind of penal deportation ship (which it isn't quite, but close).  Flags should've gone up if Kirk in Space Seed were the same Kirk we saw in other episodes. 

Not to mention that Kirk met other people from other savage eras and planets in other episodes, and he usually deals with them accordingly (his distrust of Col. Green in "Savage Curtain", for example).  

 

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If Kirk did not violate Starfleet regulations, and there's nothing to indicate that he did, then he did not screw the pooch in Space Seed.  He did nothing wrong.

Except common sense. Who hands out active military secrets to strangers?

And there's also nothing to indicate that Kirk's sentencing of Khan to Ceti Alpha V was off the books either.  In fact, it was a formal inquiry which would have been on the record.  He gave Khan a plea bargain.

And Kirk clearly expunged the entire record. How do I know? Because Starfleet knew nothing about it. How do I know?

- Ceti Alpha V was not under quarantine. Given the laws and paranoia that exists in the Federation even 100 years later about the prospect of genetic supermen, there is no way Starfleet would have risked anyone getting near that world so that those people might escape. Starfleet knew nothing about Khan or what Kirk did.

So maybe handling the situation without coming off arrogant would have done the job.

 So what would you have done? What's the right response?

^
This.

And yes, once again SK quickly pointed out that Picard was wrong... yet fails to offer any alternative that would've averted the outcome of "Q Who." 

 

And yes, Kirk DID screw up all over Space Seed.   It's one of the reasons why that episode never even cracks my top 25.  Kirk acts like someone replaced the gutsy, intuitive and compassionate leader we saw in "Corbomite Maneuver" and "Doomsday Machine" with the straw-brained Scarecrow from "Wizard of Oz."

As soon as Khan threatened McCoy's life (by feigning unconsciousness and pulling a stolen knife on him), he should've been placed under guard.  

Once his ID was confirmed, Kirk was OBLIGATED to contact Earth AT ONCE (Khan was a wanted criminal despot; it'd be like a South American president failing to tell the UN that Adolf Hitler is alive and well, and relaxing on a beach somewhere).   He didn't.  

Did he imprison Khan and his men for trying to suffocate both himself and the bridge crew, or for assaulting Lt. Kyle in the transporter room?   NO.  

Did he imprison Joaquin for assaulting a member of his crew, namely Lt. Uhura?  NO.

Did he try McGivers for mutiny?  NO.  

Did he report the whole Khan exile decision to Starfleet?  Obviously not, or TWOK wouldn't have happened and the Ceti Alpha system would've never been considered for Genesis (esp. since there was a human colony there).

^
This is textbook screwing of the pooch.

 

Picard's refusing the offer of the being who'd just abducted him moments earlier is hardly comparable; it's not as if Picard had his crystal ball handy and knew what Q would do (esp. given Q's unpredictable nature).   But seriously, I ask again: What would ANYONE have done differently?  Accept Q at his word?  Take him aboard as a member of the crew with his powers intact (because that worked out so well with Charles Evans a century earlier...). 

So I ask; rather than just say Picard screwed up because he 'wasn't polite enough' (which wouldn't have changed anything), what would YOU have done that would change the outcome of the episode.   I'm not singling out StillKirok, I'm asking anyone who has an answer.... 

 

But these are the new more perfect more trusting humans of the future. The world is a utopia with no problems. Of course Kirk trusted Khan.

Not buying that one.

He wasn't handing command of the ship over to Harry Mudd when he met the man in this Utopia before he knew who he was.

Khan? Threatens to slit my CMO's throat, won't give me his first name or answer a basic question and comes from a ship named after an old penal colony from a time of massive political upheaval and bloodshed.  But, hey, sure, study every inch of my ship.

^
I don't buy the 'Kirk was too trusting because he grew up in utopia' scenario either.   Otherwise he'd have been dead in 5 minutes many times.  

Not to mention that Spock and company already noted the ship was from a 'strange and violent period in Earth's history.'   And that the name was picked from a former penal colony.  There was already suspicion that it might be some kind of penal deportation ship (which it isn't quite, but close).  Flags should've gone up if Kirk in Space Seed were the same Kirk we saw in other episodes. 

Not to mention that Kirk met other people from other savage eras and planets in other episodes, and he usually deals with them accordingly (his distrust of Col. Green in "Savage Curtain", for example).  

 

 

It just boils down to, if Kirk doesn't go full derp, the episode as written can't happen

And, really, as we've seen in episodes like "The Omega Glory" "The Naked Time" and "The Tholian Web" 'space crazy' happens and Sickbay's going to be ground zero so I have to ask....

...why in God's name do you have what amounts to a weapon's display just hanging on the wall in Sickbay?

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If Kirk did not violate Starfleet regulations, and there's nothing to indicate that he did, then he did not screw the pooch in Space Seed.  He did nothing wrong.

Except common sense. Who hands out active military secrets to strangers?

And there's also nothing to indicate that Kirk's sentencing of Khan to Ceti Alpha V was off the books either.  In fact, it was a formal inquiry which would have been on the record.  He gave Khan a plea bargain.

And Kirk clearly expunged the entire record. How do I know? Because Starfleet knew nothing about it. How do I know?

- Ceti Alpha V was not under quarantine. Given the laws and paranoia that exists in the Federation even 100 years later about the prospect of genetic supermen, there is no way Starfleet would have risked anyone getting near that world so that those people might escape. Starfleet knew nothing about Khan or what Kirk did.

So maybe handling the situation without coming off arrogant would have done the job.

 So what would you have done? What's the right response?

^
This.

And yes, once again SK quickly pointed out that Picard was wrong... yet fails to offer any alternative that would've averted the outcome of "Q Who." 

 

And yes, Kirk DID screw up all over Space Seed.   It's one of the reasons why that episode never even cracks my top 25.  Kirk acts like someone replaced the gutsy, intuitive and compassionate leader we saw in "Corbomite Maneuver" and "Doomsday Machine" with the straw-brained Scarecrow from "Wizard of Oz."

As soon as Khan threatened McCoy's life (by feigning unconsciousness and pulling a stolen knife on him), he should've been placed under guard.  

Once his ID was confirmed, Kirk was OBLIGATED to contact Earth AT ONCE (Khan was a wanted criminal despot; it'd be like a South American president failing to tell the UN that Adolf Hitler is alive and well, and relaxing on a beach somewhere).   He didn't.  

Did he imprison Khan and his men for trying to suffocate both himself and the bridge crew, or for assaulting Lt. Kyle in the transporter room?   NO.  

Did he imprison Joaquin for assaulting a member of his crew, namely Lt. Uhura?  NO.

Did he try McGivers for mutiny?  NO.  

Did he report the whole Khan exile decision to Starfleet?  Obviously not, or TWOK wouldn't have happened and the Ceti Alpha system would've never been considered for Genesis (esp. since there was a human colony there).

^
This is textbook screwing of the pooch.

 

Picard's refusing the offer of the being who'd just abducted him moments earlier is hardly comparable; it's not as if Picard had his crystal ball handy and knew what Q would do (esp. given Q's unpredictable nature).   But seriously, I ask again: What would ANYONE have done differently?  Accept Q at his word?  Take him aboard as a member of the crew with his powers intact (because that worked out so well with Charles Evans a century earlier...). 

So I ask; rather than just say Picard screwed up because he 'wasn't polite enough' (which wouldn't have changed anything), what would YOU have done that would change the outcome of the episode.   I'm not singling out StillKirok, I'm asking anyone who has an answer.... 

 

But these are the new more perfect more trusting humans of the future. The world is a utopia with no problems. Of course Kirk trusted Khan.

Not buying that one.

He wasn't handing command of the ship over to Harry Mudd when he met the man in this Utopia before he knew who he was.

Khan? Threatens to slit my CMO's throat, won't give me his first name or answer a basic question and comes from a ship named after an old penal colony from a time of massive political upheaval and bloodshed.  But, hey, sure, study every inch of my ship.

^
I don't buy the 'Kirk was too trusting because he grew up in utopia' scenario either.   Otherwise he'd have been dead in 5 minutes many times.  

Not to mention that Spock and company already noted the ship was from a 'strange and violent period in Earth's history.'   And that the name was picked from a former penal colony.  There was already suspicion that it might be some kind of penal deportation ship (which it isn't quite, but close).  Flags should've gone up if Kirk in Space Seed were the same Kirk we saw in other episodes. 

Not to mention that Kirk met other people from other savage eras and planets in other episodes, and he usually deals with them accordingly (his distrust of Col. Green in "Savage Curtain", for example).  

 

 

It just boils down to, if Kirk doesn't go full derp, the episode as written can't happen

And, really, as we've seen in episodes like "The Omega Glory" "The Naked Time" and "The Tholian Web" 'space crazy' happens and Sickbay's going to be ground zero so I have to ask....

...why in God's name do you have what amounts to a weapon's display just hanging on the wall in Sickbay?

Yeah, surgical tools on the walls next to your patients... not the brightest idea. :giggle:

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