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GustavoLeao

Takei Slams TAS And New STAR TREK Movies

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B-b-but what about Arex and M'Ress...? :ohmy:

George, you're spoiling our fun! :P

There's some terrible typos in that article. "Refusion" That's some sort of futuristic energy souce, but I think they mean "refusal." "Their" for "they're" united states [sic] no caps. Just coz you reed comic books duzzent meen you shouldnt try to geddit write.

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B-b-but what about Arex and M'Ress...? :ohmy:

George, you're spoiling our fun! :P

There's some terrible typos in that article. "Refusion"

Maybe it was a reference to Star Trek III's "fal tor pan" (aka 'the re-fusion')? :laugh: :P

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He's entitled to his opinion just as I'm entitled to say that it's only worth about as much as mine in the grand scheme.

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B-b-but what about Arex and M'Ress...? :ohmy:

George, you're spoiling our fun! :P

There's some terrible typos in that article. "Refusion"

Maybe it was a reference to Star Trek III's "fal tor pan" (aka 'the re-fusion')? :laugh: :P

I think you're being overly generous to the writer of that feature. :P;)

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Interesting--wasn't he praising the Abrams movies when they first came out?  Maybe now that he realizes sucking up to Abrams won't get him work, he is getting bitter.

 

As for his comments on TAS, it sounds like he hadn't watched them in a long time, or may have forgotten that animation wasn't so easy back then.  They did have aliens you wouldn't see in live action though.  I wouldn't call his comments "slamming" though. 

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Interesting--wasn't he praising the Abrams movies when they first came out?  Maybe now that he realizes sucking up to Abrams won't get him work, he is getting bitter.

 

As for his comments on TAS, it sounds like he hadn't watched them in a long time, or may have forgotten that animation wasn't so easy back then.  They did have aliens you wouldn't see in live action though.  I wouldn't call his comments "slamming" though. 

^
Think you're reading a bit too much into Takei's reaction.   And despite your supposition, Takei's feelings on the JJ Abrams' Trek movies are consistent.  Even back in 2011 he said that he wished the movies wouldn't use the ST name:  http://trekmovie.com/2011/05/13/george-takei-unhappy-with-jj-abrams-star-trek-using-name-star-trek/

There's no evidence that he's bitter because he failed to successfully 'suck up.'  I'm not sure where you even got that.  It's not as if he were a contender to play Hikaru Sulu again in the new movies (?).  Takei has always applauded the BR ST movie's visuals and action (even today) but he feels they lack that special something that makes it Star Trek.   His attitude is pretty consistent, even 5 years ago.

I don't entirely agree with him, but as prometheus says above, he's entitled to an opinion.  

 

And I agree with you on TAS.  

There were sweeping alien landscapes, episodes taking place underwater and in zero gravity and all kinds of things that couldn't be done in live action (at that time).  That the animation was subpar was largely due to the show being done on the cheap.  If it were done (or reworked) today with modern CGI (even for cartoons), it could be terrific.   I still say they could take the vocal tracks, add some real TOS music tracks and remake the stories with modern CGI, but I doubt the studio would put that kind of money or effort into such a little-loved, relatively obscure chapter of ST history.

A shame, really...

tumblr_mr22jivVaF1r2p3x5o4_250.gif

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I agree. I'm actually surprised Paramount has never done that with TAS, I think sales would make it worth the effort.

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I agree. I'm actually surprised Paramount has never done that with TAS, I think sales would make it worth the effort.

I agree. How much does it cost to do 20 minutes of animation. The animation doesn't have to be perfect, just really good. A little surfing and it looks like it would cost about a half a million dollars per episode for TV quality animation. There are 22 episodes so it could be done for about 11 million dollars, maybe less. I think that it could easily done for a profit. Since the network owns the show it doesn't have to make a profit on the first viewing. Networks shows cost 3 million per episode so the entire animated series could be done for the cost of 3 to 4 episodes of a regular series. It seems like a good fit for CBS online. 

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TAS is just the type of animation Filmation was doing in the mid-1970s. Check TARZAN LORD OF THE JUNGLE, LASSIE, FANTASTIC VOYAGE, BATMAN, AQUAMAN and so forth. All have the same type of animation and character designs. For Filmation lovers like me, I recommend the excellent book Lou Scheimer: Creating the Filmation Generation

81-ny3DyFqL.jpg

Gus

 

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I actually wondered if remastering and releasing the original TAS episodes wasn't a way of gauging interest in them before a greater 'remastering' effort was begun. CBS/Viacom seem to be behind TOS/TNG all the way. Enterprise was filmed in hi-def and a modern standard ratio so isn't an issue, but DS9 and VOY are problematical for long term exploitation, precisely because of the remastering difficulties and the costs involved.

But TAS represents an unmined resource. In a sense, it's a much more straightforward job and the costs are likely not nearly as high. You already have the vocal tracks, which could be cleaned up with modern tech. Imagine if these episodes were marketed "As you've never seen them before...!" There are some little gems of storytelling among those animations, and if they were given a glossy CGI treatment akin to shows like Star Wars Rebels (albeit with a more realistic style in keeping with other iterations of Star Trek) they could look fantastic. They could look more like Takei imagined.

I think they'd connect with a generation of fans who previously dismissed them, maybe even find a new audience. Hey, they could air them "first run" on CBSAA in a similar way to how the remastered versions of TOS were released.  

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I actually wondered if remastering and releasing the original TAS episodes wasn't a way of gauging interest in them before a greater 'remastering' effort was begun. CBS/Viacom seem to be behind TOS/TNG all the way. Enterprise was filmed in hi-def and a modern standard ratio so isn't an issue, but DS9 and VOY are problematical for long term exploitation, precisely because of the remastering difficulties and the costs involved.

But TAS represents an unmined resource. In a sense, it's a much more straightforward job and the costs are likely not nearly as high. You already have the vocal tracks, which could be cleaned up with modern tech. Imagine if these episodes were marketed "As you've never seen them before...!" There are some little gems of storytelling among those animations, and if they were given a glossy CGI treatment akin to shows like Star Wars Rebels (albeit with a more realistic style in keeping with other iterations of Star Trek) they could look fantastic. They could look more like Takei imagined.

I think they'd connect with a generation of fans who previously dismissed them, maybe even find a new audience. Hey, they could air them "first run" on CBSAA in a similar way to how the remastered versions of TOS were released.  

^
You and I have long advocated for this, and goodness knows I would buy 
them in a Vulcan heartbeat, but I wonder just how much genuine interest there is throughout the general public.   Among ST fans, it'd be like having 22 new mini-episodes of TOS, but would there really be a market worth the effort?  I would hope so.  

When I was at the Vegas convention 2 months ago, it was nice to see an exhibit of original cell artwork & sketches from TAS, as well as a handful of TAS cosplayers (the most inventive being a giant "Glommer" from "More Tribbles, More Troubles").   There is still some love for TAS (myself included) but overall, that's still a very niche market for such a relative expense.   However, I love your pitch of "as you've never seen them before..."  (sounds vaguely suggestive of  'where no man has gone before...'  :thumbup: ).   I must admit, that pitch of yours actually quickened my pulse a bit.   Even if the animation were just a bit more realistic (not photo-realistic, but something akin to the missing Doctor Who episodes; which are fairly unobtrusive with the live-action elements).

I could imagine a future remastered release offering both versions of each episode perhaps (?).    

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There is a big difference between today's world and 10 or 20 years ago. Animation has gone down in price. A big difference is the many different ways that companies can make money on a show. In say 2000, you can show it on tv, cable or sell dvd's. The internet was running but buying on line was no where near as big. For a company to be interested in redoing TAS, they would either have to make their money back with one or two televisions showing each or with DVD sales over just a few months. Physical stores can't keep things on the shelf that their not going to sell for months.  

Now they can rely more on a long term profit stream. Showing it on CBSAA and it might help draw in some new subscribers. You could put it on Netflix etc. You could sell it in physical stores for a while and then sell it on line as either discs or as a download. I could see it making its money back in a year or so and then providing a steady revenue stream for the next 20 years.  

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There is a big difference between today's world and 10 or 20 years ago. Animation has gone down in price. A big difference is the many different ways that companies can make money on a show. In say 2000, you can show it on tv, cable or sell dvd's. The internet was running but buying on line was no where near as big. For a company to be interested in redoing TAS, they would either have to make their money back with one or two televisions showing each or with DVD sales over just a few months. Physical stores can't keep things on the shelf that their not going to sell for months.  

Now they can rely more on a long term profit stream. Showing it on CBSAA and it might help draw in some new subscribers. You could put it on Netflix etc. You could sell it in physical stores for a while and then sell it on line as either discs or as a download. I could see it making its money back in a year or so and then providing a steady revenue stream for the next 20 years.  

^
CBSAA would be a good idea; good potential for synergy with ST: Discovery, too... 
;)

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There is a big difference between today's world and 10 or 20 years ago. Animation has gone down in price. A big difference is the many different ways that companies can make money on a show. In say 2000, you can show it on tv, cable or sell dvd's. The internet was running but buying on line was no where near as big. For a company to be interested in redoing TAS, they would either have to make their money back with one or two televisions showing each or with DVD sales over just a few months. Physical stores can't keep things on the shelf that their not going to sell for months.  

Now they can rely more on a long term profit stream. Showing it on CBSAA and it might help draw in some new subscribers. You could put it on Netflix etc. You could sell it in physical stores for a while and then sell it on line as either discs or as a download. I could see it making its money back in a year or so and then providing a steady revenue stream for the next 20 years.  

^
CBSAA would be a good idea; good potential for synergy with ST: Discovery, too... 
;)

I'm sure I could put together a convincing business plan if I had the time.

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Hand-drawn animation went out of fashion in the early 90's. I remember getting up super early in the late 80's on Saturday mornings to watch cartoons. This generation (born late 90's and later) didn't grow up with hand drawn animation which is too bad. 

There were sweeping alien landscapes, episodes taking place underwater and in zero gravity and all kinds of things that couldn't be done in live action (at that time).  That the animation was subpar was largely due to the show being done on the cheap.  If it were done (or reworked) today with modern CGI (even for cartoons), it could be terrific.   I still say they could take the vocal tracks, add some real TOS music tracks and remake the stories with modern CGI, but I doubt the studio would put that kind of money or effort into such a little-loved, relatively obscure chapter of ST history.

I think it would be too small of an audience, playing to TOS fans that would be willing to watch animation while having the nostalgia of the original voice acting. Another problem would be if it was successful, there would be no way to make new episodes without replacing Spock, Bones and Scotty's voices, let alone trying to coax William Shatner, Nichelle Nichols and Takei into the same room to work together again. Star Wars Rebels went with new characters, they didn't trot out Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill for voice acting. I think that a CGI animated Star Trek show could work, but it would have to be new voice actors and probably new characters and settings. Then the question is, who are you aiming to entertain, adults or children? I'd love to see such a show, but I think that the brand is too weak to support it right now. The 2000's hiatus was too long.

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There is a big difference between today's world and 10 or 20 years ago. Animation has gone down in price. A big difference is the many different ways that companies can make money on a show. In say 2000, you can show it on tv, cable or sell dvd's. The internet was running but buying on line was no where near as big. For a company to be interested in redoing TAS, they would either have to make their money back with one or two televisions showing each or with DVD sales over just a few months. Physical stores can't keep things on the shelf that their not going to sell for months.  

Now they can rely more on a long term profit stream. Showing it on CBSAA and it might help draw in some new subscribers. You could put it on Netflix etc. You could sell it in physical stores for a while and then sell it on line as either discs or as a download. I could see it making its money back in a year or so and then providing a steady revenue stream for the next 20 years.  

^
CBSAA would be a good idea; good potential for synergy with ST: Discovery, too... 
;)

I'm sure I could put together a convincing business plan if I had the time.

I'd bet you could.  :dance:

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Hand-drawn animation went out of fashion in the early 90's. I remember getting up super early in the late 80's on Saturday mornings to watch cartoons. This generation (born late 90's and later) didn't grow up with hand drawn animation which is too bad. 

 

There were sweeping alien landscapes, episodes taking place underwater and in zero gravity and all kinds of things that couldn't be done in live action (at that time).  That the animation was subpar was largely due to the show being done on the cheap.  If it were done (or reworked) today with modern CGI (even for cartoons), it could be terrific.   I still say they could take the vocal tracks, add some real TOS music tracks and remake the stories with modern CGI, but I doubt the studio would put that kind of money or effort into such a little-loved, relatively obscure chapter of ST history.

I think it would be too small of an audience, playing to TOS fans that would be willing to watch animation while having the nostalgia of the original voice acting. Another problem would be if it was successful, there would be no way to make new episodes without replacing Spock, Bones and Scotty's voices, let alone trying to coax William Shatner, Nichelle Nichols and Takei into the same room to work together again. Star Wars Rebels went with new characters, they didn't trot out Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill for voice acting. I think that a CGI animated Star Trek show could work, but it would have to be new voice actors and probably new characters and settings. Then the question is, who are you aiming to entertain, adults or children? I'd love to see such a show, but I think that the brand is too weak to support it right now. The 2000's hiatus was too long.

In today's world they don't have to make their money back as quickly as before, if you own the product. And with animation, why do the actors have to be in the same room? I've heard that Scotty's son sounds a lot like him.  It really depends on cost. As cost of animation goes down, the possibilities goes up,

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Hand-drawn animation went out of fashion in the early 90's. I remember getting up super early in the late 80's on Saturday mornings to watch cartoons. This generation (born late 90's and later) didn't grow up with hand drawn animation which is too bad. 

 

There were sweeping alien landscapes, episodes taking place underwater and in zero gravity and all kinds of things that couldn't be done in live action (at that time).  That the animation was subpar was largely due to the show being done on the cheap.  If it were done (or reworked) today with modern CGI (even for cartoons), it could be terrific.   I still say they could take the vocal tracks, add some real TOS music tracks and remake the stories with modern CGI, but I doubt the studio would put that kind of money or effort into such a little-loved, relatively obscure chapter of ST history.

I think it would be too small of an audience, playing to TOS fans that would be willing to watch animation while having the nostalgia of the original voice acting. Another problem would be if it was successful, there would be no way to make new episodes without replacing Spock, Bones and Scotty's voices, let alone trying to coax William Shatner, Nichelle Nichols and Takei into the same room to work together again. Star Wars Rebels went with new characters, they didn't trot out Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill for voice acting. I think that a CGI animated Star Trek show could work, but it would have to be new voice actors and probably new characters and settings. Then the question is, who are you aiming to entertain, adults or children? I'd love to see such a show, but I think that the brand is too weak to support it right now. The 2000's hiatus was too long.

In today's world they don't have to make their money back as quickly as before, if you own the product. And with animation, why do the actors have to be in the same room? I've heard that Scotty's son sounds a lot like him.  It really depends on cost. As cost of animation goes down, the possibilities goes up,

If they are targeting millennials, their 'Kirk and Spock' would be Pine and Quinto. Yes, I agree that they could find a way to recast some/all of the roles, I really wonder if the image of the original TOS actors would still sell. If you remember the original run of the cartoon, you were probably born in the 60's. 

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I would absolutely be in favor of redoing TAS, or better yet, using the original actors to do stories in the prime universe.  If Discovery is bringing the prime universe back, it's far more appropriate than it was before.  And anyone dumb enough not to know that Shatner and Nimoy originated Kirk and Spock, in this world, isn't worth catering to.  Millennials know.  Hell, if they saw the movies, then they know Nimoy was in them. 

 

In cartoon form, the characters could be any age, set in any era, and meet any character.

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I would absolutely be in favor of redoing TAS, or better yet, using the original actors to do stories in the prime universe.  If Discovery is bringing the prime universe back, it's far more appropriate than it was before.  And anyone dumb enough not to know that Shatner and Nimoy originated Kirk and Spock, in this world, isn't worth catering to.  Millennials know.  Hell, if they saw the movies, then they know Nimoy was in them. 

 

In cartoon form, the characters could be any age, set in any era, and meet any character.

^
You can't do a new animated series with only the surviving TOS actors, since Nimoy, Kelley and Doohan are irreplaceable.   It'd be jarring to suddenly hear an aged Uhura with a younger body, or same with Sulu or Chekov.   Contrary to myth, voices age too; albeit slower.   I've heard these actors in person very recently; their voices can't pass for their 30-something selves anymore.

 

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I would absolutely be in favor of redoing TAS, or better yet, using the original actors to do stories in the prime universe.  If Discovery is bringing the prime universe back, it's far more appropriate than it was before.  And anyone dumb enough not to know that Shatner and Nimoy originated Kirk and Spock, in this world, isn't worth catering to.  Millennials know.  Hell, if they saw the movies, then they know Nimoy was in them. 

 

In cartoon form, the characters could be any age, set in any era, and meet any character.

^
You can't do a new animated series with only the surviving TOS actors, since Nimoy, Kelley and Doohan are irreplaceable.   It'd be jarring to suddenly hear an aged Uhura with a younger body, or same with Sulu or Chekov.   Contrary to myth, voices age too; albeit slower.   I've heard these actors in person very recently; their voices can't pass for their 30-something selves anymore.

 

This.

They all sound like the old people that they are. It's not a knock; time waits for no one, but it just is. Nichols had a stroke, and that's affected her as well.

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I would absolutely be in favor of redoing TAS, or better yet, using the original actors to do stories in the prime universe.  If Discovery is bringing the prime universe back, it's far more appropriate than it was before.  And anyone dumb enough not to know that Shatner and Nimoy originated Kirk and Spock, in this world, isn't worth catering to.  Millennials know.  Hell, if they saw the movies, then they know Nimoy was in them. 

 

In cartoon form, the characters could be any age, set in any era, and meet any character.

^
You can't do a new animated series with only the surviving TOS actors, since Nimoy, Kelley and Doohan are irreplaceable.   It'd be jarring to suddenly hear an aged Uhura with a younger body, or same with Sulu or Chekov.   Contrary to myth, voices age too; albeit slower.   I've heard these actors in person very recently; their voices can't pass for their 30-something selves anymore.

 

This.

They all sound like the old people that they are. It's not a knock; time waits for no one, but it just is. Nichols had a stroke, and that's affected her as well.

Even suspension of disbelief has some limits. 

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If its a success, hire new actors. If the current actors want a part, make one for them. Its a cartoon, you could make a story line where the current living actors characters get into a time warp and get stranded in the past. They are hired by current Star Fleet.  There is now Admiral Kirk and Captain Kirk, etc.  Or the character gets split (Tom Riker) and one ages and the other doesn't. The older characters take a different path and are not the focus of the series but show up here and there.

 The original actors become part time characters and the new actors full time. Voice work is not as physically demanding and can be done anywhere with a good sound system. They can be in some episodes and not in others. 

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