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prometheus59650

Why Star Wars Beats Star Trek.

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Why is Star Wars more popular?

Because even retards can fully understand Star Wars, while many Star Trek episodes will always remain unintelligible for them. :P

Same goes for ethically challenged people.

Simple as that.

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Ouch.

That said, I'm increasingly of the mind that it's apples and oranges. Star Trek is science fiction. It uses the future as a platform to examine the human conditions of today.

Star Wars is fantasy. It's Lord of the Lightsabers. It has swords and knights and a ton of pseudo-religious lore, set in a past future. It's science fiction in only the sense that there's futuristic tech.

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Star Wars aims for the heart. Star Trek aims for the mind.  There are many more people looking for a rah rah good feeling story than a story that makes you think.

Star Wars is Space Opera. Star Trek is Science Fiction.(Verging on Science Fantasy at times.) 

Intelligent stories never do as well as emotional ones, Its basic human nature. The problem is that when every story aims at the heart, it can wear thin and everyone loses. 

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Intelligent stories never do as well as emotional ones

Sadly true.Just once in a while I'd wish the opposite were so. 

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Star Trek is meant for television.  Star Wars is meant for movies.  They couldn't pull off a full fledged weekly live action Star Wars series.  It would cost too much, and/or it wouldn't be about the characters that made the franchise famous.  The cartoon works in part because animation allows you to do things similar to the movies, but much cheaper.  It also allows for using major characters like Vader.

Star Wars goes all in for 2 hours.  Star Trek, a TV show, is used to going for the long haul.

Plus, Star Trek didn't hit the theaters until it had 79 hours of TV, constantly in rerun, and when it did, it was the number 2 grossing film of the year it was released.

 

The first 4 movies ended up in the top ten that year.

I think intelligent stories can work, but you also need those larger than life characters.  The original crew fit the bill.  I don't think the replacement actors have really captured that larger than life magic.  Pine's Kirk is not the badass Shatner's Kirk is.

Trying to make Star Trek into Star Wars hurt I think.  You lose your diehard fan base, you're not doing right.  At best, you'll have a decent box office one, maybe 2 times.  I think Beyond was hurt by that, and really, really lousy promotion.

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I love both! (Awaits volley of rotten fruit.)

But I love Trek more. Just that little bit. 

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I love both! (Awaits volley of rotten fruit.)

But I love Trek more. Just that little bit. 

I love both as well except I love Star Wars a little more.

 

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I love both! (Awaits volley of rotten fruit.)

But I love Trek more. Just that little bit. 

^
This.

Star Wars is the big, splashy party.   Star Trek is the deep thoughtful conversation. 

I love the original trilogy (and Force Awakens) but I find I re-watch Star Trek a lot more; there's more to chew on. 

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1 - I used to like lightsabers, now I can't see them as anything more than just glowing swords with noise. Really, what's with all the "OMG LIGHTSABERS" thing? It's a sword... that glows... There have been many movies with swords before... This one glows, so, it's more awesome than a regular sword? Yeah... I... I can't see that...

2 - The force? You mean the superpowers? With no logical explanation whatsoever? I much rather watching "The Matrix" than SW in that case. The Matrix had at least a good explanation as for why Neo could push people around and avoid bullets. It was all a computer generated fantasy. That makes sense! But a force that simply "exists" in the entire godamn universe, and some people can use it like magic because of their blood and training? Ha, no, not with me, sorry.

3 - The lore? YOU KIDDING ME? Star Trek lore is like, a hundred times more rich than SW. The number of differents cultulres is so more well explored on ST than SW. Gee, SW is suppose to be happening galaxy-wide, DO YOU HAVE IDEA OF THE DIZE OF ONE GALAXY? SW lore is pretty poor for something as big as a galaxy, ST at least happens in PARTS of OUR galaxy.

4 - Style and gender? Yeah sure, because your opinion of what style is best diffines what IS and what is NOT best. Purely personal choice. A lot of people see SW as too childish.

5 - Score?

giphy.gif

That's again, a purelly personal choice, you can't use it as argument to "why it's good". And ST scores are pretty damn good, and they are far more richer than SW's scores that all look the same to me. ST had a different theme for each movie. Much more refreshing than all the old same from SW.

6 - Top talent? What do you mean by top talent? WE HAD AN ENTIRE SHOW WITH PATRICK STEWART. P A T R I C K  S T E W A R T.

Go fight somewhere else, with solid arguments instead of this tipically emotional outburst. It's because of people like this that Earth has such a bloody history. Because yeah, We can't coexist, I have to say my way of life is better than yours because, you know, it feels better to me. The american civil war happened because of people who thought that having slaves was more natural and it feelt better than not having slaves, after all, slaves aren't people. It just feels wrong to have a negro walking freely wherever he wants to go. Just like lightsabers feels more "awesome" than phasers.

I like both, I'm not trying to take from SW everything it has ( and it has a lot ). It's just simple as that: Don't mess with me, and I won't mess with you. I did not fire the first shoot. That guy did when he wrote that article no one asked for.

Sorry If I crossed the line in any of my comments. I just somewhat tiresome to hear this Wars-Trek fight over and over again. Star Wars fans wait no time to shame any fans of other science fiction that is not their precios SW. I never see this happening with Babylon 5 or Stargate. It seems like the fans of Stargate are just cool with coexisting with Trek fans, as are the fans of BSG, Firefly and so on. 

I know though, that there are many SW fans who DO NOT react like this to fellow science fiction fans, as it is the case of everyone on this forums, that's part of the reason I love it so much. And for you all I say: You are an example of what being a fan means, none of my comments apply to any of you, I was directing them DIRECTLY to the guy who wrote the article.

Edited by Garak the spy

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I love both franchises for different reasons.  I can't understand why people (fans, ironically) always insist on comparisons.    Why do they have to size up to each other? I think there is plenty of room (at least in my old fanboy heart) for both. ;)

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I love both franchises for different reasons.  I can't understand why people (fans, ironically) always insist on comparisons.    Why do they have to size up to each other? I think there is plenty of room (at least in my old fanboy heart) for both. ;)

That is how everyone should feel. :thumbup:

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I love both franchises for different reasons.  I can't understand why people (fans, ironically) always insist on comparisons.    Why do they have to size up to each other? I think there is plenty of room (at least in my old fanboy heart) for both. ;)

That is how everyone should feel. :thumbup:

I think Star Wars and Star Trek should just kiss and make up...

Star-Wars-Star-Trek-Kiss.jpg-1111.jpg  :giggle:

SaveSave

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:lol:

I enjoy both, for different reasons. Just as well I didn't read the article, as I'd probably have gone on a rant like Garak. :P

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I think Star Wars and Star Trek should just kiss and make up...

Star-Wars-Star-Trek-Kiss.jpg-1111.jpg  :giggle:

This is good photoshop work. It also works on an another level as Fisher and Shatner hate each other.

 

Edited by Space Elf

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I think Star Wars and Star Trek should just kiss and make up...

Star-Wars-Star-Trek-Kiss.jpg-1111.jpg  :giggle:

This is good photoshop work. It also works on an another level as Fisher and Shatner hate each other.

 

She's too young for him anyway... :giggle:

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I wonder how their kids would be like

I doubt Kirk would hang around long enough to find out; as dads go, he's a bit of a deadbeat.... :S

Image10.jpg

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Better than Worf ever was. Personally I'd rather have my dad not around at all, then to pawn me off on my grandparents, be forced to take responsibility for me by my grandmother. Then, after mostly a grumbling while, he sends me off to them again. Then, I apparently don't see him for years and, when I do, he just tells me to suck up his ****ty parenthood.

But that's just me. 

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Better than Worf ever was. Personally I'd rather have my dad not around at all, then to pawn me off on my grandparents, be forced to take responsibility for me by my grandmother. Then, after mostly a grumbling while, he sends me off to them again. Then, I apparently don't see him for years and, when I do, he just tells me to suck up his ****ty parenthood.

But that's just me. 

^
True.

Especially since Alexander's mother was killed (and he saw her bloodied body, for goodness' sake!).   So yeah, what does Worf do?  Pawn him off on his aged parents.   Even when he got a relatively stable assignment on DS9, did he get Alexander to live with him?  Nope.   In fact, Alexander is pretty much MIA on DS9 until he shows up as a young adult serving in the Klingon Defense Force (!).

Kirk was never around, and Worf is a terrible dad.  
Hate to judge, but as fathers go?  Both of those men are horrible.

Sisko, on the other hand; exemplary father.   Makes homemade meals for his son, helps him with his studies, takes him solar sailing, and still finds time to run one of the busiest space stations in the quadrant.   Probably the single best father (or the best single father) we've ever seen on Star Trek...

Arguably Star Wars fathers weren't much better...

giphy.gif

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Vader's hand slipped.

Then, technically, so did Luke's.

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Vader's hand slipped.

Then, technically, so did Luke's.

^
Give the Skywalker boys a hand, ladies and gentlemen... they need one (or two).   Ba-dum-tsss! 
:giggle:

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Better than Worf ever was. Personally I'd rather have my dad not around at all, then to pawn me off on my grandparents, be forced to take responsibility for me by my grandmother. Then, after mostly a grumbling while, he sends me off to them again. Then, I apparently don't see him for years and, when I do, he just tells me to suck up his ****ty parenthood.

But that's just me. 

^
True.

Especially since Alexander's mother was killed (and he saw her bloodied body, for goodness' sake!).   So yeah, what does Worf do?  Pawn him off on his aged parents.   Even when he got a relatively stable assignment on DS9, did he get Alexander to live with him?  Nope.   In fact, Alexander is pretty much MIA on DS9 until he shows up as a young adult serving in the Klingon Defense Force (!).

Kirk was never around, and Worf is a terrible dad.  
Hate to judge, but as fathers go?  Both of those men are horrible.

Sisko, on the other hand; exemplary father.   Makes homemade meals for his son, helps him with his studies, takes him solar sailing, and still finds time to run one of the busiest space stations in the quadrant.   Probably the single best father (or the best single father) we've ever seen on Star Trek...

Arguably Star Wars fathers weren't much better...

giphy.gif

As someone who has a "bit" of childhood/adolescence experience in these matters, I can safely say that a father like Kirk who isn't really there much is STILL way better than a father like Worf who ACTIVELY pushes his own kid away over and over again and makes no effort whatsoever to understand him because he doesn't want him/doesn't care about him and royally screws him up that way, making him feel unloved, unwelcome and basically like nothing but garbage (or the Klingon equivalent of it).

Besides, if I remember correctly, Kirk was explicitly told by Carol Marcus to stay away from David. And she also never told David that Kirk is his father. I mean what was Kirk supposed to do? I believe he even expresses anger at her for forcing him to stay away, I think he makes a remark about what his life could have been if he had been allowed near David. Therefore... why assume he'd be a bad father? Of course he wouldn't reach Sisko levels (or Jean-Luc/Kamin "Inner Light" levels), he doesn't live on a space station with his son and he would have had to rely a lot on just messages and all, but I believe he still would have tried to be there, in whichever way he could.

Also, he was all over Miramanee when she told him she was pregnant. I mean really. Why think he'd be so bad at it? I'm just wondering. He seemed to love David very much - after all, his death made him so bitter that he hated the Klingons for killing him for years and years.

tl;dr: I'd say Worf is about a ZILLION times worse as a father than Kirk could have ever been.

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Better than Worf ever was. Personally I'd rather have my dad not around at all, then to pawn me off on my grandparents, be forced to take responsibility for me by my grandmother. Then, after mostly a grumbling while, he sends me off to them again. Then, I apparently don't see him for years and, when I do, he just tells me to suck up his ****ty parenthood.

But that's just me. 

^
True.

Especially since Alexander's mother was killed (and he saw her bloodied body, for goodness' sake!).   So yeah, what does Worf do?  Pawn him off on his aged parents.   Even when he got a relatively stable assignment on DS9, did he get Alexander to live with him?  Nope.   In fact, Alexander is pretty much MIA on DS9 until he shows up as a young adult serving in the Klingon Defense Force (!).

Kirk was never around, and Worf is a terrible dad.  
Hate to judge, but as fathers go?  Both of those men are horrible.

Sisko, on the other hand; exemplary father.   Makes homemade meals for his son, helps him with his studies, takes him solar sailing, and still finds time to run one of the busiest space stations in the quadrant.   Probably the single best father (or the best single father) we've ever seen on Star Trek...

Arguably Star Wars fathers weren't much better...

giphy.gif

As someone who has a "bit" of childhood/adolescence experience in these matters, I can safely say that a father like Kirk who isn't really there much is STILL way better than a father like Worf who ACTIVELY pushes his own kid away over and over again and makes no effort whatsoever to understand him because he doesn't want him/doesn't care about him and royally screws him up that way, making him feel unloved, unwelcome and basically like nothing but garbage (or the Klingon equivalent of it).

Besides, if I remember correctly, Kirk was explicitly told by Carol Marcus to stay away from David. And she also never told David that Kirk is his father. I mean what was Kirk supposed to do? I believe he even expresses anger at her for forcing him to stay away, I think he makes a remark about what his life could have been if he had been allowed near David. Therefore... why assume he'd be a bad father? Of course he wouldn't reach Sisko levels (or Jean-Luc/Kamin "Inner Light" levels), he doesn't live on a space station with his son and he would have had to rely a lot on just messages and all, but I believe he still would have tried to be there, in whichever way he could.

Also, he was all over Miramanee when she told him she was pregnant. I mean really. Why think he'd be so bad at it? I'm just wondering. He seemed to love David very much - after all, his death made him so bitter that he hated the Klingons for killing him for years and years.

tl;dr: I'd say Worf is about a ZILLION times worse as a father than Kirk could have ever been.

^
Good point.

Better an absentee dad than an abusive one. 

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Better than Worf ever was. Personally I'd rather have my dad not around at all, then to pawn me off on my grandparents, be forced to take responsibility for me by my grandmother. Then, after mostly a grumbling while, he sends me off to them again. Then, I apparently don't see him for years and, when I do, he just tells me to suck up his ****ty parenthood.

But that's just me. 

^
True.

Especially since Alexander's mother was killed (and he saw her bloodied body, for goodness' sake!).   So yeah, what does Worf do?  Pawn him off on his aged parents.   Even when he got a relatively stable assignment on DS9, did he get Alexander to live with him?  Nope.   In fact, Alexander is pretty much MIA on DS9 until he shows up as a young adult serving in the Klingon Defense Force (!).

Kirk was never around, and Worf is a terrible dad.  
Hate to judge, but as fathers go?  Both of those men are horrible.

Sisko, on the other hand; exemplary father.   Makes homemade meals for his son, helps him with his studies, takes him solar sailing, and still finds time to run one of the busiest space stations in the quadrant.   Probably the single best father (or the best single father) we've ever seen on Star Trek...

Arguably Star Wars fathers weren't much better...

giphy.gif

As someone who has a "bit" of childhood/adolescence experience in these matters, I can safely say that a father like Kirk who isn't really there much is STILL way better than a father like Worf who ACTIVELY pushes his own kid away over and over again and makes no effort whatsoever to understand him because he doesn't want him/doesn't care about him and royally screws him up that way, making him feel unloved, unwelcome and basically like nothing but garbage (or the Klingon equivalent of it).

Besides, if I remember correctly, Kirk was explicitly told by Carol Marcus to stay away from David. And she also never told David that Kirk is his father. I mean what was Kirk supposed to do? I believe he even expresses anger at her for forcing him to stay away, I think he makes a remark about what his life could have been if he had been allowed near David. Therefore... why assume he'd be a bad father? Of course he wouldn't reach Sisko levels (or Jean-Luc/Kamin "Inner Light" levels), he doesn't live on a space station with his son and he would have had to rely a lot on just messages and all, but I believe he still would have tried to be there, in whichever way he could.

Also, he was all over Miramanee when she told him she was pregnant. I mean really. Why think he'd be so bad at it? I'm just wondering. He seemed to love David very much - after all, his death made him so bitter that he hated the Klingons for killing him for years and years.

tl;dr: I'd say Worf is about a ZILLION times worse as a father than Kirk could have ever been.

I agree with this all around. They might have both ended up as absentee fathers, even if Kirk could have known, but, to Worf, Alexander was an obvious, bitter weight around his neck. All Worf ever cared about is Worf. For all his talk about personal honor and the likelihood that he'd snarl and threaten to kill you if you questioned his feelings for K'ehlyr, he sure as hell dishonored her memory by repeatedly treating their child like garbage.

Hell, the most fatherly time he ever had with young Alexander was "A Fistful of Datas," and even then he spends the cold open almost literally begging Picard for something to do so he doesn't have to spend time with the kid.  

Worf was, frankly, an abusive, trash father, and it's one of the reasons I hate the character.

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