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prometheus59650

TNG announcement from the LA Times

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Clearly, at some point, England invades and occupies France.

After Brexit, England decided it just missed France too much... :P

Casting Sir Patrick was the single best decision Bob Justman (and a grudging Gene Roddenberry) ever made for the show; he set the tone, and helped TNG truly set itself apart from TOS' shadow.  

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Yeah, another 'Kirk' wasn't going to make it.

If they just copied TOS' characters, it would've never worked.   TNG had to find its own way (and its own fans).  It helped to make the Star Trek family a WHOLE lot bigger... 

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Yeah, another 'Kirk' wasn't going to make it.

If they just copied TOS' characters, it would've never worked.   TNG had to find its own way (and its own fans).  It helped to make the Star Trek family a WHOLE lot bigger... 

To Trek's credit, they never really tried to recapture Kirk. Or Spock for that matter.

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Yeah, another 'Kirk' wasn't going to make it.

If they just copied TOS' characters, it would've never worked.   TNG had to find its own way (and its own fans).  It helped to make the Star Trek family a WHOLE lot bigger... 

To Trek's credit, they never really tried to recapture Kirk. Or Spock for that matter.

One could argue that Riker was "Kirk-like" or that Data was "Spock-like", but I think such comparisons are as superficial as saying da Vinci's "Mona Lisa" and Munch's "The Scream" are alike because they're both paintings. 

Funnily enough, Riker and Data did have precedents in other Roddenberry works; Riker is closer to Decker in TMP and Data is a mix of Roddenberry's "Questor" android and of course... Pinocchio. 

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kenman   

Yeah, another 'Kirk' wasn't going to make it.

If they just copied TOS' characters, it would've never worked.   TNG had to find its own way (and its own fans).  It helped to make the Star Trek family a WHOLE lot bigger... 

To Trek's credit, they never really tried to recapture Kirk. Or Spock for that matter.

One could argue that Riker was "Kirk-like" or that Data was "Spock-like", but I think such comparisons are as superficial as saying da Vinci's "Mona Lisa" and Munch's "The Scream" are alike because they're both paintings. 

Funnily enough, Riker and Data did have precedents in other Roddenberry works; Riker is closer to Decker in TMP and Data is a mix of Roddenberry's "Questor" android and of course... Pinocchio. 

Well I would say they were more Kirk and Spock like in their earliest incarnations, but fell out of those molds early on.  The earliest episodes? Their characterizations were a bit similar, but they grew out of it and became more interesting characters as the show went on. 

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Yeah, another 'Kirk' wasn't going to make it.

If they just copied TOS' characters, it would've never worked.   TNG had to find its own way (and its own fans).  It helped to make the Star Trek family a WHOLE lot bigger... 

To Trek's credit, they never really tried to recapture Kirk. Or Spock for that matter.

One could argue that Riker was "Kirk-like" or that Data was "Spock-like", but I think such comparisons are as superficial as saying da Vinci's "Mona Lisa" and Munch's "The Scream" are alike because they're both paintings. 

Funnily enough, Riker and Data did have precedents in other Roddenberry works; Riker is closer to Decker in TMP and Data is a mix of Roddenberry's "Questor" android and of course... Pinocchio. 

Well I would say they were more Kirk and Spock like in their earliest incarnations, but fell out of those molds early on.  The earliest episodes? Their characterizations were a bit similar, but they grew out of it and became more interesting characters as the show went on. 

Riker yes, but Data was much more innocent and childlike than the aloof and sometimes brooding Mr. Spock.

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The "missing" Kirk and Spock dynamic also comes from the shift of character focus. You'll notice that, in the first two seasons in particular, the show tries to establish the same captain and first officer dynamic that TOS had. However, it doesn't exactly work that much because Data gets more and more into focus - the writers realized he was a LOT more popular than Riker and that he was quickly becoming the absolute fan favorite and therefore he basically replaces Riker (this is then taken to an extreme in the movies, especially the ones after First Contact which are basically The Picard and Data Show Featuring Guests). This is one big reason why TNG has such a different dynamic - you don't have a Kirk/Spock "opposite" relationship as the focus where one deliberately tries to NOT be human, you have one where one charavter desperately WISHES to know what it's like to be human and the other character being much older and guiding him in his quest.  

(This is btw also why there's actually more Picard/Data fan fic than Picard/Riker - more Kirk/Scott, who is the second officer after all, than Kirk/Spock fic would be UNTHINKABLE for TOS.)

Edited by Mr.Picard

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(This is btw also why there's actually more Picard/Data fan fic than Picard/Riker - more Kirk/Scott, who is the second officer after all, than Kirk/Spock fic would be UNTHINKABLE for TOS.)

^
Slightly off-topic, but I found this on Pinterest (regarding the 'lack' of Kirk/Spock fic...
:giggle: )

v

a7e74b000d8afd20ebc1b4a1cb38f2ee.jpg

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(This is btw also why there's actually more Picard/Data fan fic than Picard/Riker - more Kirk/Scott, who is the second officer after all, than Kirk/Spock fic would be UNTHINKABLE for TOS.)

^
Slightly off-topic, but I found this on Pinterest (regarding the 'lack' of Kirk/Spock fic...
:giggle: )

v

a7e74b000d8afd20ebc1b4a1cb38f2ee.jpg

A common phenomenon, yes. As soon as it's two guys the shippers are "reading things into" a relationship. But if it's a man and a woman? "Oh yes they're totally in love, or they at least COULD be, no question". (This goes back to the whole "straight as the default setting" that society drills into people from an early age.)

This is also why some folks will readily embrace 'uncommon' het ships like Picard/Troi "I can see it somehow, yes" but will throw ALL the hate at you for even IMPLYING there might be something going on between Jean-Luc and Q "Ewww that's just disgusting!". Even the most uncommon het ship is still treated with more enthusiasm than the glaringly obvious male/male one. It can be... frustrating. (Some - mostly older - TNG fans in particular are vicious about this sort of thing, my guess is that it's because the show tries so desperately to push its main two het pairings on people that they lose the ability to even CONSIDER that the characters just might NOT be straight after all.)

 

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nepr   

This post and recent ST:DSC developments sent me back to the Wikipedia TNG article which has some great links which I hope it's OK to share here, without hijacking this thread.

First, for context, a quote from the Wikipedia article, itself:

By 1986, 20 years after Star Trek's debut on NBC, the franchise's longevity amazed Paramount Pictures executives. Chairman Frank Mancuso Sr. and others described it as the studio's "crown jewel", a "priceless asset" that "must not be squandered". The series [TOS] was the most popular syndicated television program 17 years after cancellation...

I'm always impressed by the muscle that TOS had; chopped-up bad prints 20 year-old special effects and all.

Still, then as now, per the NY Times,  the big broadcast networks were timid and wary...

The relief that nearly everyone at Paramount felt when the negotiations [with the Fox network] fell through - ''We have to control our own destiny,'' says Lucie Salhany, president of television sales -implies that the studio would never have found any suitor who was good enough for ''Star Trek.''

But, according to the times, the local independent stations and affiliates were made of sterner stuff...

'' 'Star Trek' promises to be one of the most successful programs of the season, network or syndicated,'' said Paul La Camera, program director for WCBV in Boston.

also notable to those who feel sci-fi can't compete on broadcast TV...

Playing on independent stations in Los Angeles and Denver last Wednesday night, the new ''Star Trek'' beat all network programs from 8 to 10 P.M. Its competition included ''Highway to Heaven,'' ''Magnum P.I.,'' ''Perfect Strangers'' and the highly touted new ABC series ''Hooperman.'' In San Francisco, Detroit and Houston, ''Star Trek'' came in second. Last Monday, the program also defeated all three networks in Miami.

Gene Roddenberry whose skill as a nuts-and-bolts producer of content is not always recognized, seemed to have no trouble designing, casting or shooting his new creation.  Everything seemed in-place 7 months or so after the series was announced.  The first episode was on-schedule and (judging by the silence on the subject) on-budget.  I personally wasn't all that pleased with the initial results, but many, (kind of hard to read this micro-film) many, (end of season 1) many  people apparently were, in contrast to the way early TNG is often depicted in more recent critiques and reviews.  Of course, an LA Times flash-forward to season 6 kind of distorts the view...

Despite the death of "Star Trek" creator Gene Roddenberry one year ago, his humanistic vision of the future is being more widely embraced on television than ever before.

and...

The syndicated spinoff of the original "Star Trek," which was canceled by NBC in 1969 after three seasons, is averaging a 13.5 national rating (each point represents 931,000 households). While it's still early in the season, that represents a 22% increase in overall ratings from the 1991-92 season.

(note that the ratings cited are just for about 12.5 million households, not total viewers)

I like to re-visit this time and this show when the notion that there's something inherently limiting about Star Trek is thick in the air.  This all happened when the brand was 20 years old and the folks at Paramount had no idea how far it might go and for how long.  There were no apologies or self-imposed restrictions on what Star Trek could be or what it could accomplish.

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