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Mr.Picard

30 Years in 2017

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I love the first 2 seasons of TNG. I dont think they are dated at all.

The late Maurice Hurley was a great producer and he produced some very interesting episodes in those early seasons.

My favorite first season episodes are WHERE NO ONE HAS GONE BEFORE, 11001001 and CONSPIRACY. Great, underated stuff.

Gus

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True. But there was always enough variation in the styles (hair and wardrobe) in TOS that it didn't feel stuck entirely in any one era. Somebody was thinking ahead on this alien dress or her do, so that you didn't completely fixate on the beehives...

2-17-2013+10-31-43+PM.jpg 

and miniskirts are timeless... :)

But for TNG, especially early on, they just riffed on whatever was already in fashion, almost to a fault.

It did get better though.

Later episodes of TNG (esp. when Troi started wearing an honest-to-goodness uniform) were a little more successful at achieving that 'timeless' look.    I do appreciate that much in the same way that TOS forecast the flip-phone and the personal computer, TNG also successfully forecast iPads/tablets and wearable tech (the com badge); that was kind of a big deal then.   It's everyday only 29 years later.    Still kind of blows me away...
 

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Sorry for the clutter...not sure how to kill this. Anyway... 

 

I love the first 2 seasons of TNG. I dont think they are dated at all.

The late Maurice Hurley was a great producer and he produced some very interesting episodes in those early seasons.

My favorite first season episodes are WHERE NO ONE HAS GONE BEFORE, 11001001 and CONSPIRACY. Great, underated stuff.

Gus

I'm not saying that some of the episodes don't hold up, but that bridge looks like a plastic surgeon's waiting room in 1985, and it does make for some snickering in this day and age. And the wardrobe was generally stuck in its era. never mind the racist tone of "Code of Honor," that guest wardrobe just screams, "Cheap breakdancing group, circa 1985. It's cheap and pretty terrible.

And if I wanna get super-nitpicky, the Bynar language sounds suspiciously like a 28.8 baud modem. ;) 

It did get better though.

It did. Season 3 onward and the show started taking itself a touch more seriously, the remodel in S5 (I think) helped a lot...and getting Troi out of her, quite frankly, a little bit trampy jumpsuits in S6 pretty much took care of the last of the big problems.

 

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Getting rid of Troi's beehive bunn after season 1 really helped. I never understood Berman's thing with women's hair. So if Troi and Janeway had to have a bunn, why didn't Crusher or Dax? I still can't believe they had to reshoot half of Caretaker all because Berman thought Janeway would look better with the bunn.

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Getting rid of Troi's beehive bunn after season 1 really helped. I never understood Berman's thing with women's hair. So if Troi and Janeway had to have a bunn, why didn't Crusher or Dax? I still can't believe they had to reshoot half of Caretaker all because Berman thought Janeway would look better with the bunn.

If I had been Berman's boss, there's no way in hell I would have greenlit the reshoots for that, as it's just stupid.

Dax didn't have one, I suspect because Berman never really cared about DS9 all that much, and, probably, because neither Crusher or Dax were the leads or being pushed out as these breakout characters. Back in the day, I remember a little bit of that for Troi because Betazoids were new, as was the idea of a ship's counselor.

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Getting rid of Troi's beehive bunn after season 1 really helped. I never understood Berman's thing with women's hair. So if Troi and Janeway had to have a bunn, why didn't Crusher or Dax? I still can't believe they had to reshoot half of Caretaker all because Berman thought Janeway would look better with the bunn.

If I had been Berman's boss, there's no way in hell I would have greenlit the reshoots for that, as it's just stupid.

Dax didn't have one, I suspect because Berman never really cared about DS9 all that much, and, probably, because neither Crusher or Dax were the leads or being pushed out as these breakout characters. Back in the day, I remember a little bit of that for Troi because Betazoids were new, as was the idea of a ship's counselor.

Getting rid of Troi's beehive bunn after season 1 really helped. I never understood Berman's thing with women's hair. So if Troi and Janeway had to have a bunn, why didn't Crusher or Dax? I still can't believe they had to reshoot half of Caretaker all because Berman thought Janeway would look better with the bunn.

I think Dax did have a bun for like one early episode though...I think the tried it and it just didn't work at all.  It wasn;t the pilot, maybe not even first season, but I know they tried out some different hairstyle for only an episode and dropped it pretty quick. 

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I only remember the pony tail, but you might be right. I'm starting through DS9 again, and have only made it through "Dax," so maybe I'll spot it.

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Getting rid of Troi's beehive bunn after season 1 really helped. I never understood Berman's thing with women's hair. So if Troi and Janeway had to have a bunn, why didn't Crusher or Dax? I still can't believe they had to reshoot half of Caretaker all because Berman thought Janeway would look better with the bunn.

If I had been Berman's boss, there's no way in hell I would have greenlit the reshoots for that, as it's just stupid.

 

Exactly. It was already added cost with the whole Bujold as Janeway thing, but to be halfway through shooting and the producer comes in and says he wants to reshoot everything so far because of a hairstyle thing?? And honestly, does anyone think Janeway (or Troi for that matter) was/looked any more professional with the bunn?

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You guys will have to wait for 455 FILMS (the producers for THE CAPTAINS and FOR THE LOVE OF SPOCK) upcoming DS9 documentary movie for  a lot of answers to these questions.

Gus

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Last night my wife and I went to a used record shop down by the beach, and I saw S1 and 3 of TNG on blu ray.   I impulse bought them, and after watching the hours of amazing documentary bonus content on S1 (fascinating stuff about the BR restoration and the show itself),  I am glad as hell that I did!  

Up till now, I've only owned TNG on DVD (S2, 3 and 6) and 5 of the single-disc blu rays (Next Level, Best of Both Worlds, Unification, Chain of Command and All Good Things).   I've also owned some of the collector DVD sets (the Picard set, the Borg and Klingon sets).

I gotta say, I'm developing a whole new appreciation (and affection) for TNG S1.

I'll let my initial comments about my 'rediscovery' speak for themselves (cut and pasted from the Last ST I Watched thread):

The bonus features alone are worth the purchase, but after watching a few TNG S1 episodes on Netflix recently?  I really wanted to listen for the ones with audio commentaries as well.   And for $20, it was hardly a fiscal deal breaker.   

But yeah, I gotta admit; as a former non-fan of S1, I am really warming up to it in a big way.   Maybe it's nostalgia, but I really think it's deeper than that.   There's sort of an 'anything goes' quality to it that is so sadly lacking in S4 onward.   Much more risk-taking and experimentation.    I mean, a talking head gift box.   Engineer Shimoda playing with control chips like they were dominos, or (best of all) Picard telling Wesley to just balls-out "Shut up."   It's definitely eccentric, yet; but also wildly unpredictable.   Even the dialogue has sort of an odd cadence to it that later episodes never quite recaptured.

TNG S1 is almost like its own 'bubble' of Star Trek; separate from what came before and what came afterward.   I just had to own it! :thumbup:

And if enjoying S1 is bad?  I don't want to be good... :P

 

... and this morning I discovered a word-perfect essay about S1 from our own Mr.  Picard:

It's one of the wildest seasons in all of Trek. If not THE wildest. I mean you have cannibalism (first Jean-Luc's Ferengi remark in the pilot episode and later you have Anticans asking the ship's cook to prepare one of the Selay delegates and it's hilariously brushed off by Jean-Luc in an"whatever, YOU deal with this Number One, I need a rest" way - LMFAO!) and you have flying hairdryer things chasing the away team, badmiral with terrible ageing makeup, 80s hair and fashion galore, Jean-Luc cosplaying on the holodeck with a romantic parting scene at the end that looks like as if it's straight - or rather, gay, haha - out of Brokeback Mountain, you get crab-like things trying to take over the Federation and an exploding head all in one episode... I could go on and on. It's something that people just need to ACCEPT instead of banging on and on how this and that sucked. Of course a lot of it sucked, they had no idea what they were doing, neither the actors nor the writers. But they created their own piece of artwork here. It took me a while to appreciate season 1 as well but I never hated it before. I was fine with it. Maybe it's because I didn't grow up with Trek. To me, season 1 was always just season one, not something I felt was terrible. I never even realized it was hated so much, and I'm glad no one told me back then. I went into it without any opinions and it looked alright to me. And then, the more the fandom started to try and tell me how much they all hate it, the more attached I became to it until it became my second favorite season. Because why not. It's so unfair to give it all that hate - they had NOTHING to go on back then, only TOS. No one knew what 24th century Trek would be like and had to look like. Add to that all the behind the scenes bickering and problems and you actually realize that what they DID come up with is actually not that bad. But nah, it's easier to sit there and be like "the first season is so terrible, what were they thinking". TNG is always held to these high standards of "Darmok" and "The Inner Light", it creates its own impossible goals to match in later seasons and people are upset that the first season doesn't match these goals, but given the circumstances back then, there was no way it COULD. Other Treks and their first seasons are never hated as viciously. They did better because they all had TNG to draw from for their stories and settings, and TOS had had nothing like it before, it didn't have to have anything. TNG had to match the balance between TOS and creating the future universe for the TOS one. It had to draw in new fans AND keep the anger of the Kirk fanatics at bay. And it had problems behind the scenes. And it had actors who didn't think the show would last because everyone had assured them that no one would be able to replace Kirk and his crew. It's a whole bunch of problems, and a whole bunch of baggage, it's no wonder season 1 is so wild. But I guess it's easier to sit there and say "ugh it's terrible" than to consider WHY that is so. Not saying the fandom should fall in love with season 1, ain't gonna happen, I'm just saying it might help to consider the REASONS why season 1 is season 1. And then perhaps become a little more lenient towards most of it (there ARE inexcusable things, such as "Code Of Honor"). And not tell new fans to "just skip it". It belongs to the show, it sets a lot of foundations, it was needed the way it was.

I literally COULD NOT have put it better myself.  

Yes, S1 was an admittedly troubled season; the bonus features talk all about that.  It had a rough start.   But considering the audacity of what they were undertaking?  I give them serious kudos for succeeding as they did.   And the restoration job on the BR set is just gorgeous.   Nice to see an underdog of ST get such treatment.  

Yes, at $100 a pop, I couldn't justify getting these to be honest; but in getting a used copy for $20, I'm finally able to sit back and really appreciate S1 for boldly going where no ST had gone before, and for giving a high middle finger to 'conventional' Star Trek and for NOT playing it safe week-after-week.

To ST-TNG S1...

haven_hd_217.jpg

... may its 30th anniversary bring it some of the respect and appreciation it deserves.   Succeed or fail, they never played it safe. ;)

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I also remember firsthand a lot of the negative PR before TNG came out; a lot of people (most of them TOS cast members) saying that they couldn't do it; that you can't capture 'lightning in a bottle' (Nimoy), or that calling it Star Trek is 'bad business' (Doohan), and that ST is all about their characters (Kelley), etc. etc. blah blah blah.  

Ironically, many of those same detractors (ALL of them, in fact) later came back for appearances on either TNG episodes ("Relics" "Farpoint" "Unification") or the TNG movies (GEN).   On that show that 'wouldn't work.'   But damned if TNG didn't hang in there and keep trying.
And 7 seasons and 4 movies later... ;)

But I clearly remember all of the pundits who were dooming it before it even premiered.   That TNG made it to a third season at all (let alone a 7th) was a mini-miracle.   It wasn't just the brand name carrying it (as I used to think); the ratings were impressive too.   It was the top-rated syndicated drama for most of its 7 year run.   That's not small potatoes for a show that 'wouldn't work.'   It finally blossomed with the mass audiences with BoBW in 1990.  By then, it was starting to eclipse TOS in popularity (and anyone who says differently can stuff it; I was there).   I remember a LOT of new fans to Star Trek coming aboard in those days; people who hated Kirk and 'the guy with the ears' and the paper mache rocks.   TNG had a sophistication about it that earned it a whole new base.

It stands on its own now.  There are fans (like our own Mr. Picard) who are fans almost exclusively of this one faction of Star Trek.   Just as I know fans who only like TOS, or the JJ Abrams' Bad Robot movies.  

But TNG did the single most valuable service to the Star Trek franchise, one that every incarnation since has owed their livelihoods to: it proved (hands down) that ST can survive and thrive) without any ONE group of actors or any ONE spaceship.   It's no longer a cult of a trio of personalities.   It's a brand.  A brand that can survive reinvention and continue to attract new fans to the fold, perhaps ad infinitum

Thank you, TNG. 

48b550b728cd5c6b01d125a5dae01891.jpg

Take a slice... :happy:

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I also remember firsthand a lot of the negative PR before TNG came out; a lot of people (most of them TOS cast members) saying that they couldn't do it; that you can't capture 'lightning in a bottle' (Nimoy),... and that ST is all about their characters (Kelley), etc. etc. blah blah blah.  

To an extent, I think they were right. I think that if the show had tried to ape TOS, especially in the way some of those season one episodes did, it would have failed miserably.

But what I think the likes of Nimoy and Kelly didn't anticipate was that TNG found its own voice and caught its own lightning in a bottle. It's own unique characters found something to say and how to say it in a way that resonates even today.

The above commentary shows me that even decades later the likes of Nimoy and Kelley thought Trek's success was something of a fluke. 

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I also remember firsthand a lot of the negative PR before TNG came out; a lot of people (most of them TOS cast members) saying that they couldn't do it; that you can't capture 'lightning in a bottle' (Nimoy),... and that ST is all about their characters (Kelley), etc. etc. blah blah blah.  

To an extent, I think they were right. I think that if the show had tried to ape TOS, especially in the way some of those season one episodes did, it would have failed miserably.

But what I think the likes of Nimoy and Kelly didn't anticipate was that TNG found its own voice and caught its own lightning in a bottle. It's own unique characters found something to say and how to say it in a way that resonates even today.

The above commentary shows me that even decades later the likes of Nimoy and Kelley thought Trek's success was something of a fluke. 

A 'fluke' repeated by DS9, and (arguably) VGR and even the short-lived ENT, which is gaining something of a new cult following in recent years.

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I also remember firsthand a lot of the negative PR before TNG came out; a lot of people (most of them TOS cast members) saying that they couldn't do it; that you can't capture 'lightning in a bottle' (Nimoy),... and that ST is all about their characters (Kelley), etc. etc. blah blah blah.  

To an extent, I think they were right. I think that if the show had tried to ape TOS, especially in the way some of those season one episodes did, it would have failed miserably.

But what I think the likes of Nimoy and Kelly didn't anticipate was that TNG found its own voice and caught its own lightning in a bottle. It's own unique characters found something to say and how to say it in a way that resonates even today.

The above commentary shows me that even decades later the likes of Nimoy and Kelley thought Trek's success was something of a fluke. 

A 'fluke' repeated by DS9, and (arguably) VGR and even the short-lived ENT, which is gaining something of a new cult following in recent years.

This is true. For me, DS9 has always struck as the closest to TOS; a group of imperfect people simply trying to do the right thing more often than not. And, even though I get the feeling sometimes that DS9 gets treated like a fifth wheel of the franchise, the loyalty of its fans is particularly fierce. When it grabs one, it doesn't let go.

I accept that a lot of younger generations like Voyager, but it never quite clicked with me. Garak was more interesting and had more depth in 30+ episodes than Janeway did in 170.

And ENT? They have that "crew as a family' vibe down in a way that I haven't seen since TOS and that goes a long way for me.

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First of all, I merged this topic with the one I created for the same purpose. (As awesome as the show is, we really don't need two topics about TNG's anniversary.)

Secondly... I'm still a bit annoyed that there have been no real merchandise announcements regarding the show's anniversary, but then, ThinkGeek just threw an awesome TNG jacket at me that I had to have, so I guess I should simply focus on them for my merchandise fix.

Thirdly... as for the show in general: Prepare for one of my dreaded speeches. I learned from my husband, the best. :P

I'm actually kinda glad I didn't grow up with TNG. Sometimes I miss growing up with it and think I might have become a more decent person sooner, but then I also think nah, it came to me when it had to, at a crucial and sad point in my life, and it pulled me away from walking down a very wrong path, so, it saved me.

Another reason why I'm kinda glad that I didn't grow up with it is that I sincerely doubt I'd have appreciated it as a child. I did love space and astronauts (like a lot of lil boys do I guess) and I adored my Playmobil Space Station (I still have it, it's missing a lot of pieces, but I love it anyway)... but I had no further interest. I liked going to the moon in my mind and being in space, around Earth, but I had no interest BEYOND that. I didn't want to meet aliens or explore the galaxy. Therefore I sincerely doubt I'd have liked TNG much. I preferred watching stuff like Remington Steele. (I ADORED private investigators. The trenchcoats and the fedoras... THAT was my thing. Yes I know, Dixon Hill, but really, he hardly ever appears, I'd have lost patience waiting for him to show up again.) Considering all that, it's probably for the better that I never really ran into TNG when I was a kid. No one introduced me to it, no one cared about it in my immediate vicinity, and therefore kiddo me didn't KNOW about it either.

And as a teenager... NO. Liking Trek was the EMBODIMENT of being uncool at my school. I hung out with a rather nasty bunch of people, and liking Trek of all things would have completely destroyed my reputation AND it would have made me a TARGET. No way. I also really thought it was totally uncool, the pajamas, the starships, how ridiculous could things GET? What kind of loser watched this kind of thing? TV shows like "X Files" were where things were at. THAT was cool. Mulder was cool. Scully was cool. Picard? Star Trek? YAAAAAWN. Outta my way. So, my teenage years were NOT a good time for TNG either. I'd have brushed it aside as "stupid". I'd have laughed at it, too.

18 was the best age for it for me to run into it, really. Or rather, for being nagged into watching it. Entering the fandom then, seeing all the message boards (I was a bit shocked recently when I saw that I've been here on Trekcore since 2005 haha, and also even much earlier since I was a member of Trekcore's predecessor's board as well, Trekpulse it was called, I believe, ahahahaha good times) and encountering all those people who welcomed me and shared my enthusiasm - that was very special to me. I could not have had this as a teenager (there were no message boards yet and I wasn't the type who enjoyed having pen pals).

But, at first, I did not join any boards - I wanted to watch all of TNG and be knowledgeable enough to be able to compete in discussions (my nagging ex boyfriend had warned me about the love for details the Trek fandom has and how casual knowledge wouldn't "suffice in a conversation"). And THAT was the BEST decision I ever made. Because NO one told me what to like and what to watch and what to expect. My ex just said "watch the show, I'm not gonna spoil anything". He NEVER said "don't watch the first season" or "stay away from this and that stupid episode". He just let me WATCH it. I walked into a re-run of the show during its 5th season, "Cause And Effect" was my first episode, and I finished watching the show, but, naturally, the whole beginning was missing. They did re-run it soon after again and I watched, but by now I was REALLY fed up with the German dubbing, it annoyed me, especially since I had entered the fandom by now (first German boards but they weren't as active as the US ones) and always had to look up the English episode titles.

So I got the show on DVD (I remember how I spent ALL my graduation money on the DVDs, I walked into the store and bought all the expensive silver boxes they had back then, all seven seasons on one day, I carried them all home from the city and I was so proud and happy and I had this stupid grin on my face and my mother was SO mad and YELLED and YELLED at me for spending my graduation money haha) and that's when TNG really grabbed me a SECOND time because the English version was SO much better and until this day I have literally never watched the German version again. I even remember how I put in "Encounter At Farpoint" for the first time... I watched it on my laptop, it had a fancy new DVD drive (I didn't have a DVD player yet, I was a stubborn VHS lover) and I remember how I sat down and watched it in English and how I had trouble understanding anyone except Jean-Luc, haha. (No wonder, I had mostly been taught British English in school.) Good old times. But even then NO one interfered. NO one told me "skip season 1". I was entirely free to explore the show on my own, in my own way  - which I think this is a thing that gets lost these days. People who are new to TNG (it's often those who were pulled in by Nu!Trek and who then watched TOS and now want to try TNG) walk in and ask others for advice on what to watch - and that's when things get troubling. I see SO many fans telling others not to watch this and that episode, to skip the first two seasons, to not bother with season 7, etc, etc. If people just LET others explore the show, it would be MUCH easier. Focus on which episodes TO watch. Tell them to watch the first season but NOT take it too seriously. Watch season 7 but under the aspect that the show was slowly running out of fuel. Just provide more insight instead of "this sucks, skip it". Part of why I love TNG the way I do these days is definitely because I explored it freely, and because no one told me to skip anything. (This went TOO far when I ran into a message board and declared that I LOVED Nemesis, of course, haha, but I was clearly too biased then. I had just realized I was in love. Of COURSE I'd loved every second of Jean-Luc on that big screen.) In other words: I was free to fall in love with it. I value this greatly. Until this day I actually avoid TNG podcasts, favorite episode articles or blogs, simply because I'm pretty much a walking unpopular opinion when it comes to the show, which is also a result of me exploring the show on my own. And a result of my stubbornness - I hardly EVER like what everyone else likes. "The idea of fitting in just... repells me."

Anyways. TNG is very, very special to me, for a number of reasons, the biggest being, of course, Jean-Luc. It changed my life 100%, and it changed ME. No other TV show has EVER done this. I owe it a lot. I may not be the biggest STAR TREK fan in the fandom's history since TNG is the only show I care about, but I MIGHT just be one of the biggest TNG fans. The love that other Trekkies have for all of Trek I simply focus on just ONE show. And ONE character. (However, I am not oblivious to the show's faults. I realize it has problems, most notably its treatment of its female characters and its terrible and awkward dances around LGBT issues. It was written by mostly straight men for straight men, and it shows.)

Because I'm such a late fandom arrival, I probably can't properly appreciate TNG's 30th anniversary... I mean I wasn't there when the show was announced and I didn't watch the first episode when the show premiered (I was only 4 years old in 1987, even if I had watched it I don't think I'd have understood much of it)... but I have my own "in the beginning" memories. They just start somewhere around 2001, not in 1987. ;) 

 

Edited by Mr.Picard

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^
That's what I love!  Hearing other perspectives on TNG's anniversary.   Each person's discovery of it is unique.  

And yes, ST wasn't 'cool' when I was growing up either (and I DID like it, so I was a total closet-case when it came to ST worship in those days).   Saying you liked Star Trek, or wearing a ST shirt was pretty much the same as wearing a giant bull's-eye on your backside saying 'KICK HERE PLEASE.'   I had a small cadre of friends who were all fellow geeks (and ST lovers) and we just kept it under our hats till we were away from campus (this is probably where much of my empathy for my gay friends came from; I very much knew what it was like to be 'in the closet', especially since I was an atheist as well).

Even in my 20s, on those lucky few occasions when I had dates and we came back to my place, I'd hide all of my ST books or turn them around so that the spines weren't readable.  I didn't really 'come out' (out and proud!) till I met Mrs. Vie (a fellow geek!).

This line of yours brought a great big smile to my face:

"The idea of fitting in just... repells me."

^
For some reason, I picture these faces when I read it:

gen0586.jpg

"Human conformity is so repulsive..."  :giggle:

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That's what I love!  Hearing other perspectives on TNG's anniversary.   Each person's discovery of it is unique.  

And yes, ST wasn't 'cool' when I was growing up either (and I DID like it, so I was a total closet-case when it came to ST worship in those days).   Saying you liked Star Trek, or wearing a ST shirt was pretty much the same as wearing a giant bull's-eye on your backside saying 'KICK HERE PLEASE.'   I had a small cadre of friends who were all fellow geeks (and ST lovers) and we just kept it under our hats till we were away from campus (this is probably where much of my empathy for my gay friends came from; I very much knew what it was like to be 'in the closet', especially since I was an atheist as well).

Even in my 20s, on those lucky few occasions when I had dates and we came back to my place, I'd hide all of my ST books or turn them around so that the spines weren't readable.  I didn't really 'come out' (out and proud!) till I met Mrs. Vie (a fellow geek!).

This line of yours brought a great big smile to my face:

"The idea of fitting in just... repells me."

^
For some reason, I picture these faces when I read it:

gen0586.jpg

"Human conformity is so repulsive..."  :giggle:

It's actually not a line of mine, it's from Guinan, my bartender role model. ;)

I get weird looks and reactions sometimes today as well in real life when I walk around with my TNG shirts or hoodies or jackets or whatever else there is. The difference is that I don't CARE anymore now. I'm proud of my love for TNG. And Jean-Luc, although I'm a little more careful with showing that one, it could be dangerous in the wrong place. But I do admit, I really threw a few nasty words into my ex' direction when he tried to nag me into watching TNG back then. "Not the bald dude again! Shut up, I don't want to hear about him anymore!" "Oh please no, not the starship again... jfc..." I swear I really watched that TNG episode just to MAKE HIM SHUT UP ALREADY. Things then obviously did NOT turn out the way I had planned them to, though. :P 

I guess what made TNG so uncool when I was a teenager was the whole "nerd sign" that was attached to it. The whole "guy with thick glasses who lives in the basement and puts starships together and wears weird ears and goes to conventions" stereotype. NO one wanted to be associated with "that type of person", and so people also avoided the shows that were typically associated with such types. I do remember seeing TNG show up on my TV from time to time when I looked for something to watch, but I always quickly moved on because "ewww, the pajama people again". Oh, self. Haha.

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That's what I love!  Hearing other perspectives on TNG's anniversary.   Each person's discovery of it is unique.  

And yes, ST wasn't 'cool' when I was growing up either (and I DID like it, so I was a total closet-case when it came to ST worship in those days).   Saying you liked Star Trek, or wearing a ST shirt was pretty much the same as wearing a giant bull's-eye on your backside saying 'KICK HERE PLEASE.'   I had a small cadre of friends who were all fellow geeks (and ST lovers) and we just kept it under our hats till we were away from campus (this is probably where much of my empathy for my gay friends came from; I very much knew what it was like to be 'in the closet', especially since I was an atheist as well).

Even in my 20s, on those lucky few occasions when I had dates and we came back to my place, I'd hide all of my ST books or turn them around so that the spines weren't readable.  I didn't really 'come out' (out and proud!) till I met Mrs. Vie (a fellow geek!).

This line of yours brought a great big smile to my face:

"The idea of fitting in just... repells me."

^
For some reason, I picture these faces when I read it:

gen0586.jpg

"Human conformity is so repulsive..."  :giggle:

It's actually not a line of mine, it's from Guinan, my bartender role model. ;)

I get weird looks and reactions sometimes today as well in real life when I walk around with my TNG shirts or hoodies or jackets or whatever else there is. The difference is that I don't CARE anymore now. I'm proud of my love for TNG. And Jean-Luc, although I'm a little more careful with showing that one, it could be dangerous in the wrong place. But I do admit, I really threw a few nasty words into my ex' direction when he tried to nag me into watching TNG back then. "Not the bald dude again! Shut up, I don't want to hear about him anymore!" "Oh please no, not the starship again... jfc..." I swear I really watched that TNG episode just to MAKE HIM SHUT UP ALREADY. Things then obviously did NOT turn out the way I had planned them to, though. :P 

I guess what made TNG so uncool when I was a teenager was the whole "nerd sign" that was attached to it. The whole "guy with thick glasses who lives in the basement and puts starships together and wears weird ears and goes to conventions" stereotype. NO one wanted to be associated with "that type of person", and so people also avoided the shows that were typically associated with such types. I do remember seeing TNG show up on my TV from time to time when I looked for something to watch, but I always quickly moved on because "ewww, the pajama people again". Oh, self. Haha.

^
But these days, 'geek is chic.'   Man, I wish that were the case 25-30 years ago... 
:laugh:

And yes, I got the Guinan quote (Guinan is who I want to be when I grow up... someday;  I'm only 49 :P), but for some reason that image of the repulsed Duras sisters popped into my head when I read it.   Just one of those things... :giggle:

I very much remember (c. 1992) my then-girlfriend (luckily for me we broke up that same year) who treated my love of Star Trek the way other girlfriends would act if they caught their significant others watching bestiality porn.   Honestly, I remember ONE time she 'agreed' to give ST a try.   It was a first season episode (can't remember which one) and all she could do was laugh aloud, and mock how "childish" it all was.   She wasn't exactly the most open-minded person.   She made me feel so ashamed for liking it.   I wasn't even about to introduce her to TNG at that point; that would've been like asking her if she wouldn't mind setting her hair on fire for a little while.   

TNG became my closest 'porn' during the 8 months or so we were together.   If we were together on the nights it was on TV,  I'd just have to quietly tape it and hope she didn't notice the 'record' light on the VCR.   It was suffocating.

I remember very vividly the night we broke up; she picked up her stuff from my place, and after she left?  I put in a tape of TNG episodes and felt a HUGE sigh of relief.   It sounds insensitive on my part, but I vowed that I'd never be so deeply 'closeted' in my love of ST ever again.  

I wasn't quite ready to embrace conventions just yet in those days (that would come after I met my now-wife, who in fact, INSISTED that we go to conventions), but I could at least watch TNG without feeling like the cops were going to kick in my door and take me downtown to be booked on suspicion of practicing Nerd-craft. 

 

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^
That's what I love!  Hearing other perspectives on TNG's anniversary.   Each person's discovery of it is unique.  

And yes, ST wasn't 'cool' when I was growing up either (and I DID like it, so I was a total closet-case when it came to ST worship in those days).   Saying you liked Star Trek, or wearing a ST shirt was pretty much the same as wearing a giant bull's-eye on your backside saying 'KICK HERE PLEASE.'   I had a small cadre of friends who were all fellow geeks (and ST lovers) and we just kept it under our hats till we were away from campus (this is probably where much of my empathy for my gay friends came from; I very much knew what it was like to be 'in the closet', especially since I was an atheist as well).

Even in my 20s, on those lucky few occasions when I had dates and we came back to my place, I'd hide all of my ST books or turn them around so that the spines weren't readable.  I didn't really 'come out' (out and proud!) till I met Mrs. Vie (a fellow geek!).

This line of yours brought a great big smile to my face:

"The idea of fitting in just... repells me."

^
For some reason, I picture these faces when I read it:

gen0586.jpg

"Human conformity is so repulsive..."  :giggle:

It's actually not a line of mine, it's from Guinan, my bartender role model. ;)

I get weird looks and reactions sometimes today as well in real life when I walk around with my TNG shirts or hoodies or jackets or whatever else there is. The difference is that I don't CARE anymore now. I'm proud of my love for TNG. And Jean-Luc, although I'm a little more careful with showing that one, it could be dangerous in the wrong place. But I do admit, I really threw a few nasty words into my ex' direction when he tried to nag me into watching TNG back then. "Not the bald dude again! Shut up, I don't want to hear about him anymore!" "Oh please no, not the starship again... jfc..." I swear I really watched that TNG episode just to MAKE HIM SHUT UP ALREADY. Things then obviously did NOT turn out the way I had planned them to, though. :P 

I guess what made TNG so uncool when I was a teenager was the whole "nerd sign" that was attached to it. The whole "guy with thick glasses who lives in the basement and puts starships together and wears weird ears and goes to conventions" stereotype. NO one wanted to be associated with "that type of person", and so people also avoided the shows that were typically associated with such types. I do remember seeing TNG show up on my TV from time to time when I looked for something to watch, but I always quickly moved on because "ewww, the pajama people again". Oh, self. Haha.

^
But these days, 'geek is chic.'   Man, I wish that were the case 25-30 years ago... 
:laugh:

And yes, I got the Guinan quote (Guinan is who I want to be when I grow up... someday;  I'm only 49 :P), but for some reason that image of the repulsed Duras sisters popped into my head when I read it.   Just one of those things... :giggle:

I very much remember (c. 1992) my then-girlfriend (luckily for me we broke up that same year) who treated my love of Star Trek the way other girlfriends would act if they caught their significant others watching bestiality porn.   Honestly, I remember ONE time she 'agreed' to give ST a try.   It was a first season episode (can't remember which one) and all she could do was laugh aloud, and mock how "childish" it all was.   She wasn't exactly the most open-minded person.   She made me feel so ashamed for liking it.   I wasn't even about to introduce her to TNG at that point; that would've been like asking her if she wouldn't mind setting her hair on fire for a little while.   

TNG became my closest 'porn' during the 8 months or so we were together.   If we were together on the nights it was on TV,  I'd just have to quietly tape it and hope she didn't notice the 'record' light on the VCR.   It was suffocating.

I remember very vividly the night we broke up; she picked up her stuff from my place, and after she left?  I put in a tape of TNG episodes and felt a HUGE sigh of relief.   It sounds insensitive on my part, but I vowed that I'd never be so deeply 'closeted' in my love of ST ever again.  

I wasn't quite ready to embrace conventions just yet in those days (that would come after I met my now-wife, who in fact, INSISTED that we go to conventions), but I could at least watch TNG without feeling like the cops were going to kick in my door and take me downtown to be booked on suspicion of practicing Nerd-craft. 

 

That sounds really terrible...! I'm so sorry you had to go through that! I wasn't like that, I swear! That's just SO no, being so horrible to someone who's trying to introduce you to their favorite show! I did throw a few remarks but ONLY when he REALLY got on my nerves with his "did you finally watch an episode?" nagging. (For one thing, I hardly ever saw my ex, we talked on the phone mostly. There was no chance of us clashing over TV show choices.) I just saw no point in watching something whose genre didn't interest me. Sci-fi wasn't - and isn't - something that holds a great deal of fascination for me, and TNG just SCREAMED sci-fi at me. My ex tried to tell me that it's more than that, that "it's about humanity and philosophy and morals and ethical choices" and I was like "yeah but PAJAMAS and SPACESHIPS, no". I can't thank him for many things, but I'm grateful that he remained stubborn and kept telling me "I promise you'll like it, please, give it a chance, please, I want you to meet Picard, the man who influenced my life so much, look at him just once, please?" When I sat down to finally watch the damn episode I did have the intention of telling him on the phone afterwards how much I thought the show sucked, that much is true, but it so didn't work because the show hooked me right there after the first few scenes. I don't know if it was open-mindedness... I think it was more a feeling of knowing that somehow, this show was different from anything I had ever seen and there was this feeling coming from it, that sense of "I belong to these people on that ship" that later turned into "this is the family I never had but always wanted". It felt like as if the show was TELLING me something and I really had no choice other than watching and listening. 

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TNG became my closest 'porn' during the 8 months or so we were together.   If we were together on the nights it was on TV,  I'd just have to quietly tape it and hope she didn't notice the 'record' light on the VCR.   It was suffocating.

I remember very vividly the night we broke up; she picked up her stuff from my place, and after she left?  I put in a tape of TNG episodes and felt a HUGE sigh of relief.   It sounds insensitive on my part, but I vowed that I'd never be so deeply 'closeted' in my love of ST ever again.  

I wasn't quite ready to embrace conventions just yet in those days (that would come after I met my now-wife, who in fact, INSISTED that we go to conventions), but I could at least watch TNG without feeling like the cops were going to kick in my door and take me downtown to be booked on suspicion of practicing Nerd-craft. 

 

 

 

csllzmhva8kkoloxoxla.gif

Seriously though, that's messed up. The Duchess is not a huge Trek fan either. She likes it well enough, but, for a ton of reasons she's never going to go to a convention or other expressions of fandom because we're just not the same people and aren't going to like the same things. She's into scrapbooking and other things...and that's cool. We might tease each other about this or that related to our mutual hobbies, but it's never toxic.

There are some episodes she'll watch, but, for the most part, if I want to watch in the living room she'll find something else to do and she's okay with that. When you have to literally hide something you like and stealth-record something no one should have to stealth-record because, otherwise, someone who is supposed to care about you will make you feel like %$#* for it, that's a red flag, let me make sure I know where the nearest exit is moment.

Edited by prometheus59650

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Seasons 1 and 2 of TNG problems are greatly explored in Shatner's CHAOS ON THE BRIDGE documentary, priceless stuff about Roddenberry and his lawyer. But even with all those problems and egos, they managed to deliver two very good and underrated seasons of STAR TREK. Roddeneberry and DC Fontana's ENCOUNTER AT FARPOINT remains a favorite of mine because it was my teenage self falling in love with STAR TREK again. I love seasons 1 and 2 and makes no apology for that, the work was tremendous. And of course, it became even more great with the arrival of the late Michael Piller in Season 3. Michael Piller was for THE NEXT GENERATION what Gene Coon was for THE ORIGINAL SERIES.

cast_tng_roddenberry_s1.jpg

But it was still gold latinuum stuff, much better thana ny 1980s sci-fi series. TNG brought back cerebral sci-fi on TV and I will forever be glad I saw every episode of those awesome 7 years (favorite episodes - YESTERDAY'S ENTERPRISE, RELICS, INNER LIGHT and ALL GOOD THINGS....)

Gus

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Season 1 is pretty weak all around. There are good episodes of course, like "1101001" and "Where No One..." despite it wasting even more episode time pushing Wesley Crusher: Wunderkind at me.

"We'll Always Have Paris" is the first real glimpse at what the show could be. Season 2, its own stumbles notwithstanding, shaped up consistently over the season, probably because Roddenberry himself was pulling back from it.

Edited by prometheus59650

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Writer/Producer Maurice Hurley was a genius. I cant imagine how he created the Borg while Roddenberry was watching. Q-WHO, one of my favorites Season 2. Same for MEASURE OF A MAN, CONTAGION, TIME SQUARED, THE CHILD, PEAK PERFORMANCE and so many others. Great stuff, and yeah, season 1 and 2 have its bad episodes too, but in my opinion, they were in the minority, and this is true for all seven seasons. Just saying, of course.

Gus

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S1 is growing on me.  
Just bought it on blu ray (used) for $20, and I gotta admit; I'm really enjoying the hell out of it.

Mr Picard gave me some valuable advice; don't watch it for 'great storytelling' or great television.   Watch it for the kitsch, the fun.   On that basis?  It's a hoot.  I can't explain exactly what I find so fun about it, but it's so wonderfully unhinged that I can't help but enjoy it.  :thumbup:

I dunno... don't ask; don't tell. :P

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I've had shocked new fans who (naturally) start with season 1 ask me "They have cannibalism on this show? And how can Picard be one of the fan favorites when he's so incredibly rude to everyone? What IS this show? How can this be something fans enjoy?" Poor folks were taking it absolutely seriously - it's the young folks these days, they aren't used to a show being completely weird for an entire season because, obviously, TV environment today hardly allows for a show to find itself. If it doesn't match expectations - boom, cancelled. They're used to top quality right from the start, so it comes as a bit of a shock to them that there are so many episodes (they aren't used to THAT either mostly) that are so... wild. But once you've explained? They understand. It's all in the broader context. I've also had young folks tell me "this is absolutely brilliant, I love this show". And, believe it or not, I've seen folks who said "this show gets boring from season 3 onwards". It's all a highly subjective thing, this 'early seasons of TNG' issue. For some, it's actually a 'season 3 onwards' issue. ;)

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