GustavoLeao

When Shatner Speaks...................People Listen

44 posts in this topic

Yes, Shatner has played plenty of parts since Kirk.  He's done a pretty solid job doing things that kept him working.  Not too many people have had success in three different series', not to mention all the hosting and humor he does.  But in Star Trek, Shatner is James T. Kirk.  It's his most famous and most iconic role.  If they are setting Star Trek in the prime universe, and Shatner appears, it has to be as James T. Kirk.

^
And that makes the case for exactly why he CAN'T appear in the new show.   The show takes place 11 years or so before TOS.   James T Kirk would be about 23.   Even Pine would have a challenge playing 23 at this point in his career, let alone an 85 year old man.   And before you say that he could be fixed with CGI?   No, he can't.   CGI hasn't gotten to that point yet.   I just heard him in Vegas only a few weeks ago; even his voice is older.   You can't turn back the clock that far.   Even Adam West in the new Batman trailer sounds like an octogenarian.   I'm not being ageist or cruel.   I'm being factual.  I'm almost 50 and there's no way I could imagine being my 20 year old self at this point. 

It's really best if Shatner just puts his ego in the backseat and let this ship sail without him.   

As TNG, DS9 and the reboot movies have proved, you don't need William Shatner for Star Trek $uccess.   That is only a tired theory propagated by Shatner himself and/or Shatner-philes.   It's not the truth of the matter. 


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're trying to get people to shell out money to watch a show on a franchise that has provided 700 hours of free television and airs in rerun all the time.  It's also available on netflix.  Star Trek: Generic Crew might not do that.

 

Sure Adam West sounds older, but if Kirk is older, Shatner's age is not important.  Obviously they would have to do some creative writing to get him on the show.  That's their job.  I'm not holding my breath, but I'm also not really going to go out of my way to watch this show at this point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather wait until series 2.  If they jump forward in time it could be after Kirk's time on the Enterprise or at least after the first 5 year mission. They could come up with a decent plot then. Maybe Kirk's on leave to serve as a diplomat at the request of some new race when he has a relapse of the disease from Miri's world. There's a treatment but it would knock him out for too long so he suffers through it to complete his mission. They stabilize his condition but wait to complete the cure. Use clips from the original show to show him talking to Spock. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Shatner's name going to be thrown out there EVERY time a new Star Trek production comes into the light? Honestly, I feel like it's 2006 all over again.

Obviously they would have to do some creative writing to get him on the show.  

*Shoehorning is probably what you meant. If that is necessary then it should not be done. Not in 2009 and definitely not now.

Edited by Cdydatzigs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Shatner's name going to be thrown out there EVERY time a new Star Trek production comes into the light? Honestly, I feel like it's 2006 all over again.

Yeah, I'm fed up with that Shatner debate, too.

And I'm deeply disgusted by the public persona of this actor. I just can't stand him and his disgusting coquettery with his huge inflated ego. Can't this actor officially retire already, to end these pathetic debates once and for all?

Star Trek is so much more, so much bigger than just Shatner. And it has been since 1987. Ca. 80% of the Star Trek universe we know today was shaped without Shatner.

 

The new series does not need Shatner, and shouldn't destroy all its prospects for greatness and credibility by pandering to Shatner fanboys.

I'd be fine with a cameo that doesn't require a far-fetched or absurd explanation to make it work (or too much screentime that would better be spent making the new characters shine) -- Shatner as Jim Kirk's grandfather in a guest role or cameo, okay. But anything that goes beyond that would leave a moldy bytaste.

 

TNG stood on its own legs somewhen around season 2 or 3, and at very least with BOBW, it had surpassed its precursor IMO. Discovery should aim at doing the same.

Edited by Sim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Shatner's name going to be thrown out there EVERY time a new Star Trek production comes into the light? Honestly, I feel like it's 2006 all over again.

Obviously they would have to do some creative writing to get him on the show.  

*Shoehorning is probably what you meant. If that is necessary then it should not be done. Not in 2009 and definitely not now.

Shoehorning indeed. I love Kirk. I love Shatner's Kirk. But his contribution is over. He's too old to play that Kirk.

Never mind that that Kirk is dead and he took the check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I look at it strictly from the money situation. There are tens of thousands of fans that love Kirk who are not interested in ST Discovery. If the writers can come up with a good way that he can be a guest star in one episode, it might draw in some of those fans. If the episode is made during series two some of them might watch them and end up staying. Personally, I don't care if he's on the show but if the money people want it, I'd rather that Kirk is old because of some kind of temporary disease or have a funny episode with Grandpa Kirk and Grandpa Sulu bickering in a minor subplot.  What I don't want to see is some kind of lame time travel or alternate dimension ep. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I look at it strictly from the money situation. There are tens of thousands of fans that love Kirk who are not interested in ST Discovery. If the writers can come up with a good way that he can be a guest star in one episode, it might draw in some of those fans. . 

If they are fans, why would they need to be "drawn in" to begin with? For a new show to succeed, it must appeal to general audiences and finding a way to get the Priceline Negotiator guy into it makes no sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I look at it strictly from the money situation. There are tens of thousands of fans that love Kirk who are not interested in ST Discovery. If the writers can come up with a good way that he can be a guest star in one episode, it might draw in some of those fans. . 

If they are fans, why would they need to be "drawn in" to begin with? For a new show to succeed, it must appeal to general audiences and finding a way to get the Priceline Negotiator guy into it makes no sense.

This. It would appeal to a fraction of a fraction of the potential audience.

That's no reason to bend over backwards to try to make it work.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I look at it strictly from the money situation. There are tens of thousands of fans that love Kirk who are not interested in ST Discovery. If the writers can come up with a good way that he can be a guest star in one episode, it might draw in some of those fans. . 

If they are fans, why would they need to be "drawn in" to begin with? For a new show to succeed, it must appeal to general audiences and finding a way to get the Priceline Negotiator guy into it makes no sense.

To succeed businesses need customers. The easiest place to get customers is to draw in people who already have shown they like the product. That's why people buy mailing list. The first place companies advertise is to their existing customers. Star Trek is not going to draw extensively from a general audience. It is a niche product. They are going to draw from the subset of the general audience that likes science fiction. The easiest and cheapest customers to get will be Star Trek fans. Then branch out to fans of other series like Doctor Who.  

Fans need to be drawn in because they have to pay for it. It's not free. Many will need a nudge to get them to decide to pay. For most, it will be word of mouth. For others a cameo by Shatner might be that little extra that makes the difference.  A tiny fraction of the Star Trek audience might be significant to a new pay service. Will they make the difference, no but any extra helps.

If I ran the show would I go out of my way to get him or pay a lot of money? No. it would be foolish, Would I pay him scale for a cameo if I thought of a funny or interesting way to use him for a 5 minute segment, why not? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I look at it strictly from the money situation. There are tens of thousands of fans that love Kirk who are not interested in ST Discovery. If the writers can come up with a good way that he can be a guest star in one episode, it might draw in some of those fans. . 

If they are fans, why would they need to be "drawn in" to begin with? For a new show to succeed, it must appeal to general audiences and finding a way to get the Priceline Negotiator guy into it makes no sense.

To succeed businesses need customers. The easiest place to get customers is to draw in people who already have shown they like the product. That's why people buy mailing list. The first place companies advertise is to their existing customers. Star Trek is not going to draw extensively from a general audience. It is a niche product. They are going to draw from the subset of the general audience that likes science fiction. The easiest and cheapest customers to get will be Star Trek fans. Then branch out to fans of other series like Doctor Who.  

Fans need to be drawn in because they have to pay for it. It's not free. Many will need a nudge to get them to decide to pay. For most, it will be word of mouth. For others a cameo by Shatner might be that little extra that makes the difference.  A tiny fraction of the Star Trek audience might be significant to a new pay service. Will they make the difference, no but any extra helps.

If I ran the show would I go out of my way to get him or pay a lot of money? No. it would be foolish, Would I pay him scale for a cameo if I thought of a funny or interesting way to use him for a 5 minute segment, why not? 

Fair enough. DeForest Kelly did it.

But I have a hard time believing Shatner would show up to be filmed blowing his nose for scale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

But I have a hard time believing Shatner would show up to be filmed blowing his nose for scale.

Hey, when Shatner blows...........people listen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

But I have a hard time believing Shatner would show up to be filmed blowing his nose for scale.

Hey, when Shatner blows...........people listen. 

And he has blown as an actor on film more than once.

Ba-dum-bum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget that a LOT of die-hard TOS traditionalists who are already hating on Discovery are also rabid Shatner/Kirk fanboys. If Shatner really signs up for a cameo, it might indeed draw some of those fanboys in. (The question, of course... is it worth it?)

Edited by Mr.Picard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget that a LOT of die-hard TOS traditionalists who are already hating on Discovery are also rabid Shatner/Kirk fanboys. If Shatner really signs up for a cameo, it might indeed draw some of those fanboys in. (The question, of course... is it worth it?)

I can't imagine it would be. For those massively die-hard traditionalists Shatner can still be Kirk, therefore Shatner must be Kirk, and they must be the Kirk they remember.

That means he has to be gut-punching and commanding his way through the episode. It's like the Reeves-Stevens novels come to life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget that a LOT of die-hard TOS traditionalists who are already hating on Discovery are also rabid Shatner/Kirk fanboys. If Shatner really signs up for a cameo, it might indeed draw some of those fanboys in. (The question, of course... is it worth it?)

I can't imagine it would be. For those massively die-hard traditionalists Shatner can still be Kirk, therefore Shatner must be Kirk, and they must be the Kirk they remember.

That means he has to be gut-punching and commanding his way through the episode. It's like the Reeves-Stevens novels come to life.

Exactly my thoughts as well (and why I'm wondering if it's worth it). He would have to be Kirk, no one else, and he would have to be the center of ALL the attention, the still-youthful captain who, of course, also gets the "pretty lady" in the end and makes everyone else look utterly incompetent. The rabid Kirk fanboys wouldn't accept anything else. (Never mind that TOS Kirk isn't like that at all - what they worship is like a bad, exaggerated Kirk parody.) And neither would Shatner, probably. I can't see him and his massive ego being satisfied with five minutes of Trek screentime.

Edited by Mr.Picard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget that a LOT of die-hard TOS traditionalists who are already hating on Discovery are also rabid Shatner/Kirk fanboys. If Shatner really signs up for a cameo, it might indeed draw some of those fanboys in. (The question, of course... is it worth it?)

I can't imagine it would be. For those massively die-hard traditionalists Shatner can still be Kirk, therefore Shatner must be Kirk, and they must be the Kirk they remember.

That means he has to be gut-punching and commanding his way through the episode. It's like the Reeves-Stevens novels come to life.

Exactly my thoughts as well (and why I'm wondering if it's worth it). He would have to be Kirk, no one else, and he would have to be the center of ALL the attention, the still-youthful captain who, of course, also gets the "pretty lady" in the end and makes everyone else look utterly incompetent. The rabid Kirk fanboys wouldn't accept anything else. (Never mind that TOS Kirk isn't like that at all - what they worship is like a bad, exaggerated Kirk parody.) And neither would Shatner, probably. I can't see him and his massive ego being satisfied with five minutes of Trek screentime.

If rumors are to be believed, back when they were talking about Shatner possibly being in NuTrek, part of the reason it was abandoned was that he wanted more than Pine was getting.

Try as I might, I can't just dismiss that as all crazy talk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If rumors are to be believed, back when they were talking about Shatner possibly being in NuTrek, part of the reason it was abandoned was that he wanted more than Pine was getting.

It seems the reason was J.J. and company at most were willing to give Shatner a tiny cameo (in the form of old Spock's holographic Happy Birthday message) and the actor was not willing to do a cameo. That pretty much ended things right there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If rumors are to be believed, back when they were talking about Shatner possibly being in NuTrek, part of the reason it was abandoned was that he wanted more than Pine was getting.

It seems the reason was J.J. and company at most were willing to give Shatner a tiny cameo (in the form of old Spock's holographic Happy Birthday message) and the actor was not willing to do a cameo. That pretty much ended things right there.

Which really just tells me that all any of this is when Shatner does it is only attention-seeking. It's not about him wanting to still be a part of Trek. It's that he still wants to be a part of Trek so long as he can make it all about him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now