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Scotty

A possible therory about this lead?

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I like it better if the alien captain is just alien. The Captain is only one of 5 of his species on the ship. He makes decisions that make no sense to humans but makes perfect sense to the other members of his species. The aliens try to explain why he had to do what he did but their explanations don't make any sense. Is it prejudice if the humans want to get rid of a perfectly competent captain simply because they don't make any sense? 

I would like it a bit better if the captain were the ONLY one of his/her race aboard, and thus challenges the entire crew.   They have a hard time believing he/she earned their rank, given his/her seeming inscrutability.   The first officer would have the difficult task of being the captain's 'voice' for the crew, while trying to understand him/her as well.  And maybe the first officer might have to, at some future date, take command herself.    This could be an interesting arc for the first batch of episodes.   At the very least it's a situation we haven't seen before in a ST series. 

Scenario's idea doesnt strike me as workable because such a person--alien or not--would never be put in command of a ship. One of the sacred truths of Star Trek is that the captain's duty is a sacred responsibility that only "one in a hundred" can pull off. You can have a bad captain, but there needs to be a good reason that the institution of Star Fleet failed to catch them before they were promoted. Having a captain that cannot communicate his vision and orders to the crew strikes me as someone who should never be a captain in the first place. Also this: being a captain in a military is more important to their identity than their species heritage. 

And Sehlat's idea makes me wonder how such a captain would not evolve into the lead. Most of the stories would be centered around that person's identity, and all the other characters would be defined by how they deal with him.    

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I like it better if the alien captain is just alien. The Captain is only one of 5 of his species on the ship. He makes decisions that make no sense to humans but makes perfect sense to the other members of his species. The aliens try to explain why he had to do what he did but their explanations don't make any sense. Is it prejudice if the humans want to get rid of a perfectly competent captain simply because they don't make any sense? 

I would like it a bit better if the captain were the ONLY one of his/her race aboard, and thus challenges the entire crew.   They have a hard time believing he/she earned their rank, given his/her seeming inscrutability.   The first officer would have the difficult task of being the captain's 'voice' for the crew, while trying to understand him/her as well.  And maybe the first officer might have to, at some future date, take command herself.    This could be an interesting arc for the first batch of episodes.   At the very least it's a situation we haven't seen before in a ST series. 

Scenario's idea doesnt strike me as workable because such a person--alien or not--would never be put in command of a ship. One of the sacred truths of Star Trek is that the captain's duty is a sacred responsibility that only "one in a hundred" can pull off. You can have a bad captain, but there needs to be a good reason that the institution of Star Fleet failed to catch them before they were promoted. Having a captain that cannot communicate his vision and orders to the crew strikes me as someone who should never be a captain in the first place. Also this: being a captain in a military is more important to their identity than their species heritage. 

And Sehlat's idea makes me wonder how such a captain would not evolve into the lead. Most of the stories would be centered around that person's identity, and all the other characters would be defined by how they deal with him.    

Not necessarily.

The show could be centered around the person who is given the difficult task of acting as the liaison between the captain and the crew; the 'human link' to the alien skipper.   That person could be immensely interesting if written well enough.   It doesn't have to be a "Yessir, Nossir" kind of role.   What if the captain were a disembodied being, like Kollos in "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"   Then the first officer would NATURALLY rise to the role of audience surrogate.   They would also be the arms and legs in any action role.    The captain would be something of a wizened 'oracle' to consult for the top decisions, but the day-to-day minutiae of running the ship would be the XO's, and she would have to be up to the challenge. And perhaps the captain recognizes that quality in her, and she is promoted soon after (much as Ben Sisko eventually made captain in his own series). 

Maybe THIS is the very reason that captains have to be able-bodied by the time of Kirk & Picard; because Starfleet recognized (via Number One's experience on Discovery) that a captain needs to interact physically with the crew as much as possible in order to truly be an effective leader... 

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Yeah, I agree, I never felt the Xindi were a "canon violation". But then, I was always leaning to the side of a very lenient or creative canon interpretation.

But I did have an issue with the Xindi, because I felt they defied the purpose of the prequel premise. When you make a prequel, you're supposed to tell us how things we know fell into place.  When you tell us an entirely new story about entirely new races and people, you don't need a prequel.

It looked like admitting the decision for a prequel was a failure.

I mean, when I went watching the Star Wars prequels, I expected a story about Obi Wan and Anakin/Vader, and if they had made movies about entirely new characters totally unconnected to the OT, I'd have felt annoyed, too.

Likewise, I expected ENT to show us about Vulcans and other races we know from the other shows that take place later (which they did to some extent, with Vulcans, Andorians, to a lesser extent Klingons and Tellarites ... and at least in season 4, Tholians and Romulans too). I expected ENT to show us events like the Romulan War, the formation of the Federation, maybe the first contact with races that "later" are established, such as Trill or Betazoids or Cardassians.

If that's not what they're going to show us, but instead an entire season with an arc about a major war with a new race -- why on earth make it a prequel?

So the Xindi were absolutely not a canon violation ... but they didn't make sense storytelling-wise, IMO.

I completely agree with you about how the Xindi were used. I wasn't big on it either.

Even though some people would call season 4 nothing but fan service, I too expected ENT to be that. Showing the alliance with the "early aliens" of the Federation and how the UFP came to be. Not just another show copying VOY/TNG. It's not a coincidence that my favorite episodes were the ones about the transporter, the formation of the prime directive, the Vulcan alliance, etc. Things that set the stage for the Trek(s) that we all love.

But as you stated, the Xindi are hardly a canon violation for the reasons stated by purists. It is irrelevant that no Xindi popped up on Picard's Enterprise or that no Suliban drank at Quark's.

^
Very much this.

In a Federation that spans (by the 24th century) 1,000 light-years, there will be MANY areas of that massive region that aren't revisited often; or are perhaps only 'seen' via subspace.    Not to mention that some of those members and protectorates will probably value their relative isolation. 

Exactly right. I used to be a critic of ENT. Although, now I've come to appreciate it a lot.

But even me at my most stubborn and critical could not see how "new" aliens were a problem. Just the Alpha Quadrant alone is massive enough that we'd meet aliens and could conceivably never see them again for generations. Plus, who is to say in the background of crowds of aliens on Earth or at Quark's that Xindi weren't there? Imagination people. :P:P:P

Good point about isolation too. The denobulans seemed friendly and open-minded, but I don't expect to see them on the front lines of the Dominion War ....

Not necessarily.

The show could be centered around the person who is given the difficult task of acting as the liaison between the captain and the crew; the 'human link' to the alien skipper.   That person could be immensely interesting if written well enough.   It doesn't have to be a "Yessir, Nossir" kind of role.   What if the captain were a disembodied being, like Kollos in "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"   Then the first officer would NATURALLY rise to the role of audience surrogate.   They would also be the arms and legs in any action role.    The captain would be something of a wizened 'oracle' to consult for the top decisions, but the day-to-day minutiae of running the ship would be the XO's, and she would have to be up to the challenge. And perhaps the captain recognizes that quality in her, and she is promoted soon after (much as Ben Sisko eventually made captain in his own series). 

Maybe THIS is the very reason that captains have to be able-bodied by the time of Kirk & Picard; because Starfleet recognized (via Number One's experience on Discovery) that a captain needs to interact physically with the crew as much as possible in order to truly be an effective leader... 

I used to be the type that thought "The captain has to be an adventurous Kirk-esque character that wants to fight on away missions!"

After Battlestar Galactica and the wonderful portrayal of Bill Adama? I like the idea of a captain character that mostly stays on the bridge but can still be critical and important to plot lines. As you stated above, it is totally possible and has been done before in sci-fi.

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scenario   

I like it better if the alien captain is just alien. The Captain is only one of 5 of his species on the ship. He makes decisions that make no sense to humans but makes perfect sense to the other members of his species. The aliens try to explain why he had to do what he did but their explanations don't make any sense. Is it prejudice if the humans want to get rid of a perfectly competent captain simply because they don't make any sense? 

I would like it a bit better if the captain were the ONLY one of his/her race aboard, and thus challenges the entire crew.   They have a hard time believing he/she earned their rank, given his/her seeming inscrutability.   The first officer would have the difficult task of being the captain's 'voice' for the crew, while trying to understand him/her as well.  And maybe the first officer might have to, at some future date, take command herself.    This could be an interesting arc for the first batch of episodes.   At the very least it's a situation we haven't seen before in a ST series. 

Scenario's idea doesnt strike me as workable because such a person--alien or not--would never be put in command of a ship. One of the sacred truths of Star Trek is that the captain's duty is a sacred responsibility that only "one in a hundred" can pull off. You can have a bad captain, but there needs to be a good reason that the institution of Star Fleet failed to catch them before they were promoted. Having a captain that cannot communicate his vision and orders to the crew strikes me as someone who should never be a captain in the first place. Also this: being a captain in a military is more important to their identity than their species heritage. 

And Sehlat's idea makes me wonder how such a captain would not evolve into the lead. Most of the stories would be centered around that person's identity, and all the other characters would be defined by how they deal with him.    

If the Federation refused to make aliens captains because the crew refuses to adapt to their ways to some extent, doesn't that make humans look prejudice? Aliens should be more alien. I know that ST aliens have always stood in for human traits, but why not a truly alien captain that cannot be easily understood. That doesn't make them a bad captain. I'll admit it would be difficult to write. Very few writer can write believable aliens that aren't just a person with a rubber mask really.

One of the authors I like has an alien race that numbers are an important part of their language at a basic emotional level. Every conversation has to have an odd number of people unless they are sitting at a table and there is something that is there to change the numbers like a special flower arrangement. This is partly because if there is an argument there has to be an uneven number so the argument can be settled. The Captain trying to talk with just one other person its like a human having a conversation with someone who is standing way too close. It's uncomfortable and the urge to step back is instinctive. It's fingernails on a chalkboard to the Captain. This number instinct comes out in all sorts of ways. If you make a list, it has to be in odd numbers. If you give the captain options, there has to be three or five or some other odd number. Two choices just feels wrong. The Captain won't get openly angry but they will get annoyed at you. If you constantly give them lists with even numbers of things, it is like insubordination. If you have to give a list with an even number of things you add "and null" to the end of the list to make it an odd number.  If the captain has to have a conversation with just one other person, it is done in his ready room with a third chair and something in front of the chair on the table to symbolize a third person. 

 When the captain walks into the mess hall, he automatically sees how many tables, chairs and place settings there are. They don't have to count them, they just automatically, instantly see the number in their head. There had better be an odd number, preferably prime or there will be hell to pay. It's not an odd quirk of the captain, its a biological imperative. 

The crew gets really annoyed because they feel the Captain is too strict but they're not being strict, its an emotional imperative for their entire species. They're in Star Fleet because they are the best mathematicians in the galaxy. You could hand the Captain a math book with the most complicated math you've ever heard of and they've never seen it before and they would understand it instantly at first read within seconds. 

There are all sorts of cultural things that people do that they don't think about. People are flexible though. They can retrain themselves. Some alien species are not as flexible and cannot change their biological leanings. Spock and pon far sort of thing but on a day to day basis. 

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If the Federation refused to make aliens captains because the crew refuses to adapt to their ways to some extent, doesn't that make humans look prejudice?

Not necessarily 'prejudiced'; just recognizing that there are certain things some beings do better than others.   A Vulcan would make a terrible morale officer, for example.   Or a Horta might be the wrong choice for a chief engineer.   It's not prejudiced to admit that some forms of life are better acclimated to certain working conditions.   

The fact that Starfleet (by the 2260s) has a Federation starship entirely manned by Vulcans may have arisen from the fact that Vulcans felt less 'emotional pressure' (or potential harassment) working among their own kind.    Maybe Starfleet has other 'non-integrated' vessels for life forms that can't easily work with humanoid forms (?).

And I'm saying that a non-human captain WILL be on Discovery; I'm just saying that barring any new information, it remains a possibility.

 

^
Very much this.

In a Federation that spans (by the 24th century) 1,000 light-years, there will be MANY areas of that massive region that aren't revisited often; or are perhaps only 'seen' via subspace.    Not to mention that some of those members and protectorates will probably value their relative isolation. 

Exactly right. I used to be a critic of ENT. Although, now I've come to appreciate it a lot.

But even me at my most stubborn and critical could not see how "new" aliens were a problem. Just the Alpha Quadrant alone is massive enough that we'd meet aliens and could conceivably never see them again for generations. Plus, who is to say in the background of crowds of aliens on Earth or at Quark's that Xindi weren't there? Imagination people. :P:P:P

Good point about isolation too. The denobulans seemed friendly and open-minded, but I don't expect to see them on the front lines of the Dominion War ....

Not necessarily.

The show could be centered around the person who is given the difficult task of acting as the liaison between the captain and the crew; the 'human link' to the alien skipper.   That person could be immensely interesting if written well enough.   It doesn't have to be a "Yessir, Nossir" kind of role.   What if the captain were a disembodied being, like Kollos in "Is There In Truth No Beauty?"   Then the first officer would NATURALLY rise to the role of audience surrogate.   They would also be the arms and legs in any action role.    The captain would be something of a wizened 'oracle' to consult for the top decisions, but the day-to-day minutiae of running the ship would be the XO's, and she would have to be up to the challenge. And perhaps the captain recognizes that quality in her, and she is promoted soon after (much as Ben Sisko eventually made captain in his own series). 

Maybe THIS is the very reason that captains have to be able-bodied by the time of Kirk & Picard; because Starfleet recognized (via Number One's experience on Discovery) that a captain needs to interact physically with the crew as much as possible in order to truly be an effective leader... 

I used to be the type that thought "The captain has to be an adventurous Kirk-esque character that wants to fight on away missions!"

After Battlestar Galactica and the wonderful portrayal of Bill Adama? I like the idea of a captain character that mostly stays on the bridge but can still be critical and important to plot lines. As you stated above, it is totally possible and has been done before in sci-fi.

^
Right.

Bill Adama is a perfect example of a skipper who wasn't always in 'action mode' and not always the center of stories, but was more believable as a commander precisely BECAUSE he was in the CIC while his pilots and crew did the 'dirty work.'   And as a combat veteran himself, Adama had more than his share of empathy for their job.

 

I think the reason some of us are having a hard time imagining a non-captain centric version of Star Trek is simply because we've ever SEEN it on Star Trek.   It doesn't mean it's not possible.

I remember about 23 years ago, a lot of fans thought that a space station-based version of Star Trek wouldn't work either...;)

 

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I would by the way also argue that, at least on TOS, in many episodes the first officer equals and often even overtakes the captain's importance to the plot. It's not unheard of for a Trek show to have a very, very strong first officer character who can easily outshine the captain. ;) 

And now a general, maybe dumb observation concerning alien crew members: The show is set ten years before TOS, yes? And on TOS almost all the crews we see consist of humans (with the exception of Spock and that Vulcan-manned ship that's destroyed in an episode or something...?). It's often somewhat implied that the Vulcans have their own ships, as do the Andorians and the Tellarites and all. I'm just wondering if they're going to make the Discovery some kind of "experimental ship" that has more aliens than humans aboard (I'm aware that the idea of a ship that has a mostly alien crew isn't new, but the Titan novels aren't canon, so there). I mean on TOS Starfleet generally seems to equal "human", and since Fuller has stated that there will be lots of aliens (and re-imagined aliens etc), I'm just wondering if that's the way he'll go. It would fit nicely to the theme of discovering (see what I did there?) one's human self through other species and all. 

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I would by the way also argue that, at least on TOS, in many episodes the first officer equals and often even overtakes the captain's importance to the plot. It's not unheard of for a Trek show to have a very, very strong first officer character who can easily outshine the captain. ;) 

And now a general, maybe dumb observation concerning alien crew members: The show is set ten years before TOS, yes? And on TOS almost all the crews we see consist of humans (with the exception of Spock and that Vulcan-manned ship that's destroyed in an episode or something...?). It's often somewhat implied that the Vulcans have their own ships, as do the Andorians and the Tellarites and all. I'm just wondering if they're going to make the Discovery some kind of "experimental ship" that has more aliens than humans aboard (I'm aware that the idea of a ship that has a mostly alien crew isn't new, but the Titan novels aren't canon, so there). I mean on TOS Starfleet generally seems to equal "human", and since Fuller has stated that there will be lots of aliens (and re-imagined aliens etc), I'm just wondering if that's the way he'll go. It would fit nicely to the theme of discovering (see what I did there?) one's human self through other species and all. 

^
Well, to speak to that speculation, there was the USS Kelvin in ST09 (I know you don't watch the Bad Robot-produced films, but it has a relevant example in this case).   The Kelvin was seen in 2233 at the exact moment of the TOS/Kelvin-Timeline divergence (duh, right? It's the Kelvin...
:giggle:), so one can assume the Kelvin was staffed the same way in the prime timeline as well.   And we saw a couple of aliens aboard that ship we'd never seen before; an amphibious-lookign navigator of some kind and a large-eyed alien doctor (or nurse, I'm not sure).   We also see a lot more aliens on NuKirk's Enterprise in ST09 and STB (maybe more aliens signed up after the Kelvin incident?).

It's possible that the prime timeline's Starfleet was more diverse before it experimented with a brief period of 'self-segregation' (maybe a lack of alien enrollment, who knows) that soon ended. Hell, even the 22nd century's NX-01 had two senior staff positions that were filled by aliens (T'Pol and Phlox).  We know the 'real world' reason was that makeup FX were too expensive on TOS' budget (same reason the Klingons briefly experimented in smooth heads), but in-universe we can only speculate.  

The all-Vulcan starship was the USS Intrepid by the way (in TOS' "Immunity Syndrome").  

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I would by the way also argue that, at least on TOS, in many episodes the first officer equals and often even overtakes the captain's importance to the plot. It's not unheard of for a Trek show to have a very, very strong first officer character who can easily outshine the captain. ;) 

And now a general, maybe dumb observation concerning alien crew members: The show is set ten years before TOS, yes? And on TOS almost all the crews we see consist of humans (with the exception of Spock and that Vulcan-manned ship that's destroyed in an episode or something...?). It's often somewhat implied that the Vulcans have their own ships, as do the Andorians and the Tellarites and all. I'm just wondering if they're going to make the Discovery some kind of "experimental ship" that has more aliens than humans aboard (I'm aware that the idea of a ship that has a mostly alien crew isn't new, but the Titan novels aren't canon, so there). I mean on TOS Starfleet generally seems to equal "human", and since Fuller has stated that there will be lots of aliens (and re-imagined aliens etc), I'm just wondering if that's the way he'll go. It would fit nicely to the theme of discovering (see what I did there?) one's human self through other species and all. 

^
Well, to speak to that speculation, there was the USS Kelvin in ST09 (I know you don't watch the Bad Robot-produced films, but it has a relevant example in this case).   The Kelvin was seen in 2233 at the exact moment of the TOS/Kelvin-Timeline divergence (duh, right? It's the Kelvin...
:giggle:), so one can assume the Kelvin was staffed the same way in the prime timeline as well.   And we saw a couple of aliens aboard that ship we'd never seen before; an amphibious-lookign navigator of some kind and a large-eyed alien doctor (or nurse, I'm not sure).   We also see a lot more aliens on NuKirk's Enterprise in ST09 and STB (maybe more aliens signed up after the Kelvin incident?).

It's possible that the prime timeline's Starfleet was more diverse before it experimented with a brief period of 'self-segregation' (maybe a lack of alien enrollment, who knows) that soon ended. Hell, even the 22nd century's NX-01 had two senior staff positions that were filled by aliens (T'Pol and Phlox).  We know the 'real world' reason was that makeup FX were too expensive on TOS' budget (same reason the Klingons briefly experimented in smooth heads), but in-universe we can only speculate.  

The all-Vulcan starship was the USS Intrepid by the way (in TOS' "Immunity Syndrome").  

Yes, that's the one I was thinking about! I was too lazy to look it up. *hides*

It's only natural that we see more aliens on Nu!Trek, they have the bigger budget, haha. But then, Fuller seems to want to have his show completely independent from the Kelvin timeline, not sure if he'll pay much attention to it. He'll probably focus more on TOS as a basis, almost everything he's said so far points to that. Maybe he'll finally provide an answer to the whole in-universe "why is everyone in Starfleet - except Spock - apparently human" question.

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I would by the way also argue that, at least on TOS, in many episodes the first officer equals and often even overtakes the captain's importance to the plot. It's not unheard of for a Trek show to have a very, very strong first officer character who can easily outshine the captain. ;) 

And now a general, maybe dumb observation concerning alien crew members: The show is set ten years before TOS, yes? And on TOS almost all the crews we see consist of humans (with the exception of Spock and that Vulcan-manned ship that's destroyed in an episode or something...?). It's often somewhat implied that the Vulcans have their own ships, as do the Andorians and the Tellarites and all. I'm just wondering if they're going to make the Discovery some kind of "experimental ship" that has more aliens than humans aboard (I'm aware that the idea of a ship that has a mostly alien crew isn't new, but the Titan novels aren't canon, so there). I mean on TOS Starfleet generally seems to equal "human", and since Fuller has stated that there will be lots of aliens (and re-imagined aliens etc), I'm just wondering if that's the way he'll go. It would fit nicely to the theme of discovering (see what I did there?) one's human self through other species and all. 

^
Well, to speak to that speculation, there was the USS Kelvin in ST09 (I know you don't watch the Bad Robot-produced films, but it has a relevant example in this case).   The Kelvin was seen in 2233 at the exact moment of the TOS/Kelvin-Timeline divergence (duh, right? It's the Kelvin...
:giggle:), so one can assume the Kelvin was staffed the same way in the prime timeline as well.   And we saw a couple of aliens aboard that ship we'd never seen before; an amphibious-lookign navigator of some kind and a large-eyed alien doctor (or nurse, I'm not sure).   We also see a lot more aliens on NuKirk's Enterprise in ST09 and STB (maybe more aliens signed up after the Kelvin incident?).

It's possible that the prime timeline's Starfleet was more diverse before it experimented with a brief period of 'self-segregation' (maybe a lack of alien enrollment, who knows) that soon ended. Hell, even the 22nd century's NX-01 had two senior staff positions that were filled by aliens (T'Pol and Phlox).  We know the 'real world' reason was that makeup FX were too expensive on TOS' budget (same reason the Klingons briefly experimented in smooth heads), but in-universe we can only speculate.  

The all-Vulcan starship was the USS Intrepid by the way (in TOS' "Immunity Syndrome").  

Yes, that's the one I was thinking about! I was too lazy to look it up. *hides*

It's only natural that we see more aliens on Nu!Trek, they have the bigger budget, haha. But then, Fuller seems to want to have his show completely independent from the Kelvin timeline, not sure if he'll pay much attention to it. He'll probably focus more on TOS as a basis, almost everything he's said so far points to that. Maybe he'll finally provide an answer to the whole in-universe "why is everyone in Starfleet - except Spock - apparently human" question.

^
My guess is that Fuller, who champions diversity (my kinda guy!), will show more aliens and we can just assume that aliens were there on TOS' Enterprise as well, but were off-camera--er, off-duty whenever something important happened (or maybe they were all just camera shy?
:giggle:). 

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I would by the way also argue that, at least on TOS, in many episodes the first officer equals and often even overtakes the captain's importance to the plot. It's not unheard of for a Trek show to have a very, very strong first officer character who can easily outshine the captain. ;) 

And now a general, maybe dumb observation concerning alien crew members: The show is set ten years before TOS, yes? And on TOS almost all the crews we see consist of humans (with the exception of Spock and that Vulcan-manned ship that's destroyed in an episode or something...?). It's often somewhat implied that the Vulcans have their own ships, as do the Andorians and the Tellarites and all. I'm just wondering if they're going to make the Discovery some kind of "experimental ship" that has more aliens than humans aboard (I'm aware that the idea of a ship that has a mostly alien crew isn't new, but the Titan novels aren't canon, so there). I mean on TOS Starfleet generally seems to equal "human", and since Fuller has stated that there will be lots of aliens (and re-imagined aliens etc), I'm just wondering if that's the way he'll go. It would fit nicely to the theme of discovering (see what I did there?) one's human self through other species and all. 

^
Well, to speak to that speculation, there was the USS Kelvin in ST09 (I know you don't watch the Bad Robot-produced films, but it has a relevant example in this case).   The Kelvin was seen in 2233 at the exact moment of the TOS/Kelvin-Timeline divergence (duh, right? It's the Kelvin...
:giggle:), so one can assume the Kelvin was staffed the same way in the prime timeline as well.   And we saw a couple of aliens aboard that ship we'd never seen before; an amphibious-lookign navigator of some kind and a large-eyed alien doctor (or nurse, I'm not sure).   We also see a lot more aliens on NuKirk's Enterprise in ST09 and STB (maybe more aliens signed up after the Kelvin incident?).

It's possible that the prime timeline's Starfleet was more diverse before it experimented with a brief period of 'self-segregation' (maybe a lack of alien enrollment, who knows) that soon ended. Hell, even the 22nd century's NX-01 had two senior staff positions that were filled by aliens (T'Pol and Phlox).  We know the 'real world' reason was that makeup FX were too expensive on TOS' budget (same reason the Klingons briefly experimented in smooth heads), but in-universe we can only speculate.  

The all-Vulcan starship was the USS Intrepid by the way (in TOS' "Immunity Syndrome").  

Yes, that's the one I was thinking about! I was too lazy to look it up. *hides*

It's only natural that we see more aliens on Nu!Trek, they have the bigger budget, haha. But then, Fuller seems to want to have his show completely independent from the Kelvin timeline, not sure if he'll pay much attention to it. He'll probably focus more on TOS as a basis, almost everything he's said so far points to that. Maybe he'll finally provide an answer to the whole in-universe "why is everyone in Starfleet - except Spock - apparently human" question.

^
My guess is that Fuller, who champions diversity (my kinda guy!), will show more aliens and we can just assume that aliens were there on TOS' Enterprise as well, but were off-camera--er, off-duty whenever something important happened (or maybe they were all just camera shy?
:giggle:). 

Oh yes, absolutely. He has already said that there will be lots of aliens - if I remember correctly he also said that the ship's senior staff will have quite a few. I do like the idea myself quite a bit, yes. The idea of diversity (no matter in which regard) is one of the few things I can absolutely get behind when it comes to this new series. :) 

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I would by the way also argue that, at least on TOS, in many episodes the first officer equals and often even overtakes the captain's importance to the plot. It's not unheard of for a Trek show to have a very, very strong first officer character who can easily outshine the captain. ;) 

And now a general, maybe dumb observation concerning alien crew members: The show is set ten years before TOS, yes? And on TOS almost all the crews we see consist of humans (with the exception of Spock and that Vulcan-manned ship that's destroyed in an episode or something...?). It's often somewhat implied that the Vulcans have their own ships, as do the Andorians and the Tellarites and all. I'm just wondering if they're going to make the Discovery some kind of "experimental ship" that has more aliens than humans aboard (I'm aware that the idea of a ship that has a mostly alien crew isn't new, but the Titan novels aren't canon, so there). I mean on TOS Starfleet generally seems to equal "human", and since Fuller has stated that there will be lots of aliens (and re-imagined aliens etc), I'm just wondering if that's the way he'll go. It would fit nicely to the theme of discovering (see what I did there?) one's human self through other species and all. 

^
Well, to speak to that speculation, there was the USS Kelvin in ST09 (I know you don't watch the Bad Robot-produced films, but it has a relevant example in this case).   The Kelvin was seen in 2233 at the exact moment of the TOS/Kelvin-Timeline divergence (duh, right? It's the Kelvin...
:giggle:), so one can assume the Kelvin was staffed the same way in the prime timeline as well.   And we saw a couple of aliens aboard that ship we'd never seen before; an amphibious-lookign navigator of some kind and a large-eyed alien doctor (or nurse, I'm not sure).   We also see a lot more aliens on NuKirk's Enterprise in ST09 and STB (maybe more aliens signed up after the Kelvin incident?).

It's possible that the prime timeline's Starfleet was more diverse before it experimented with a brief period of 'self-segregation' (maybe a lack of alien enrollment, who knows) that soon ended. Hell, even the 22nd century's NX-01 had two senior staff positions that were filled by aliens (T'Pol and Phlox).  We know the 'real world' reason was that makeup FX were too expensive on TOS' budget (same reason the Klingons briefly experimented in smooth heads), but in-universe we can only speculate.  

The all-Vulcan starship was the USS Intrepid by the way (in TOS' "Immunity Syndrome").  

Yes, that's the one I was thinking about! I was too lazy to look it up. *hides*

It's only natural that we see more aliens on Nu!Trek, they have the bigger budget, haha. But then, Fuller seems to want to have his show completely independent from the Kelvin timeline, not sure if he'll pay much attention to it. He'll probably focus more on TOS as a basis, almost everything he's said so far points to that. Maybe he'll finally provide an answer to the whole in-universe "why is everyone in Starfleet - except Spock - apparently human" question.

^
My guess is that Fuller, who champions diversity (my kinda guy!), will show more aliens and we can just assume that aliens were there on TOS' Enterprise as well, but were off-camera--er, off-duty whenever something important happened (or maybe they were all just camera shy?
:giggle:). 

Oh yes, absolutely. He has already said that there will be lots of aliens - if I remember correctly he also said that the ship's senior staff will have quite a few. I do like the idea myself quite a bit, yes. The idea of diversity (no matter in which regard) is one of the few things I can absolutely get behind when it comes to this new series. :) 

Star Trek would be a very boring universe without it.  :thumbup:

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I remember about 23 years ago, a lot of fans thought that a space station-based version of Star Trek wouldn't work either...;)

 

Ahh.. true that. It's a perfect analogy for our current situation. Im not arguing it can't work. Im just speculating how it might, and the only way I think it can work is if the Captain is muffled in some way. Either by being a disembodied alien, as you suggest, or being somehow incompetent or un-heroic. No matter what the character is like, he or she will almost certainly have to be written as less interesting and less compelling than the lead "Number One." That's the basic definition of a lead TV character: the one the viewers expectantly waits to  pop onto the screen and move the story forward. Before DSC, the captains--Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, Archer--were the ones who did that for their respective shows.   

 

 

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Sim   

 

 

 

 

 

 

I remember about 23 years ago, a lot of fans thought that a space station-based version of Star Trek wouldn't work either...;)

 

 

Ahh.. true that. It's a perfect analogy for our current situation. Im not arguing it can't work. Im just speculating how it might, and the only way I think it can work is if the Captain is muffled in some way. Either by being a disembodied alien, as you suggest, or being somehow incompetent or un-heroic. No matter what the character is like, he or she will almost certainly have to be written as less interesting and less compelling than the lead "Number One." That's the basic definition of a lead TV character: the one the viewers expectantly waits to  pop onto the screen and move the story forward. Before DSC, the captains--Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, Archer--were the ones who did that for their respective shows.  

Perhaps a mere change of focus might achieve that, too: Maybe what the ship does or doesn't do, the bridge, isn't in the focus, and the action takes place not just during the duty, but also the private life of "Number One". Maybe the "ensemble" isn't the bridge crew, but just "Number One" and a couple of lower ranks and civilians she deals with in her private life. All the decisions are taken off-screen, and where the ship goes and what it does, serves as a mere frame for interpersonal drama.

That could work, but it would also shift away the show very deep into "drama" territory rather than sci-fi or the Star Trek we're supposed to recognize.

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scenario   

The captain doesn't have to be bad just busy. On many ships, the first officer does more of the day to day running of the ship. The Captain looks more at the big picture. If the series starts with a Journey to Babel type conference, the captain could be in meeting all day to try to hammer out a treaty. So the camera focuses on the First Officers day.  

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The captain doesn't have to be bad just busy. On many ships, the first officer does more of the day to day running of the ship. The Captain looks more at the big picture. If the series starts with a Journey to Babel type conference, the captain could be in meeting all day to try to hammer out a treaty. So the camera focuses on the First Officers day.  

The captain could just be one of those 'keeps-the-crew-at-arm's-length' types.   We've seen them before, and we know they exist.   Some are better at maintaining their professional distance than others.  I think Picard tried to be this sort of captain in "Encounter at Farpoint" and other early episodes of S1, but Sir Patrick Stewart's own personal charm and warmth as a human being came through and informed the character (not vice versa).   He warmed up to his senior staff; he wasn't 'buddies' with them as Kirk was, but rather adopting a more paternal vibe.   He would do anything for these people, even if he didn't always wear his feelings on his sleeve. 

So Discovery's captain may be someone who is not good at communicating warmth or feeling to his crew, but is good in the center seat nevertheless.  Personally I look forward to seeing if Fuller, Meyer and the rest of the DSC team can maintain the discipline to keep it a first officer-centric series.   And, as Sim noted upthread, that change alone could be more important than a new ship, or a space station-based format.  

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The captain doesn't have to be bad just busy. On many ships, the first officer does more of the day to day running of the ship. The Captain looks more at the big picture. If the series starts with a Journey to Babel type conference, the captain could be in meeting all day to try to hammer out a treaty. So the camera focuses on the First Officers day.  

The captain could just be one of those 'keeps-the-crew-at-arm's-length' types.   We've seen them before, and we know they exist.   Some are better at maintaining their professional distance than others.  I think Picard tried to be this sort of captain in "Encounter at Farpoint" and other early episodes of S1, but Sir Patrick Stewart's own personal charm and warmth as a human being came through and informed the character (not vice versa).   He warmed up to his senior staff; he wasn't 'buddies' with them as Kirk was, but rather adopting a more paternal vibe.   He would do anything for these people, even if he didn't always wear his feelings on his sleeve. 

So Discovery's captain may be someone who is not good at communicating warmth or feeling to his crew, but is good in the center seat nevertheless.  Personally I look forward to seeing if Fuller, Meyer and the rest of the DSC team can maintain the discipline to keep it a first officer-centric series.   And, as Sim noted upthread, that change alone could be more important than a new ship, or a space station-based format.  

I'd loooooove such a captain again, we haven't really seen many like that ever since Pike and Jean-Luc. (They have a very similar leadership style although Jean-Luc doesn't come with an "omg a woman on my bridge" attitude.) Sisko, Janeway and Archer are all more or less the "I love my crew so much and I show it daily" type. Each in a different way, of course, but they definitely all are more like Kirk in their style. 

The show would DEFINITELY make me interested if it had a grumpy captain who isn't bad at all but simply prefers to keep people at arm's length, even if that captain is NOT the main character. A regular guest character can be just as fascinating (Gul Dukat, anyone). Ah, who am I kidding - I'd probably be all over it. I absolutely ADORE characters like that. 

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The captain doesn't have to be bad just busy. On many ships, the first officer does more of the day to day running of the ship. The Captain looks more at the big picture. If the series starts with a Journey to Babel type conference, the captain could be in meeting all day to try to hammer out a treaty. So the camera focuses on the First Officers day.  

The captain could just be one of those 'keeps-the-crew-at-arm's-length' types.   We've seen them before, and we know they exist.   Some are better at maintaining their professional distance than others.  I think Picard tried to be this sort of captain in "Encounter at Farpoint" and other early episodes of S1, but Sir Patrick Stewart's own personal charm and warmth as a human being came through and informed the character (not vice versa).   He warmed up to his senior staff; he wasn't 'buddies' with them as Kirk was, but rather adopting a more paternal vibe.   He would do anything for these people, even if he didn't always wear his feelings on his sleeve. 

So Discovery's captain may be someone who is not good at communicating warmth or feeling to his crew, but is good in the center seat nevertheless.  Personally I look forward to seeing if Fuller, Meyer and the rest of the DSC team can maintain the discipline to keep it a first officer-centric series.   And, as Sim noted upthread, that change alone could be more important than a new ship, or a space station-based format.  

I'd loooooove such a captain again, we haven't really seen many like that ever since Pike and Jean-Luc. (They have a very similar leadership style although Jean-Luc doesn't come with an "omg a woman on my bridge" attitude.) Sisko, Janeway and Archer are all more or less the "I love my crew so much and I show it daily" type. Each in a different way, of course, but they definitely all are more like Kirk in their style. 

The show would DEFINITELY make me interested if it had a grumpy captain who isn't bad at all but simply prefers to keep people at arm's length, even if that captain is NOT the main character. A regular guest character can be just as fascinating (Gul Dukat, anyone). Ah, who am I kidding - I'd probably be all over it. I absolutely ADORE characters like that. 

^
Me, too.

I like the idea of a captain who is a bit more reserved.   My wife had a similar lesson in her almost 20 years of teaching; when she first started out, she tried really hard to be the 'buddy teacher' and she readily admits that was (in her words) "a rookie mistake."   You can't really BE a leader (whether it's managing a store, a courtroom, a classroom or a starship) if you're trying too hard to be everyone's buddy all of the time.   You can be genial, you can be polite, but there HAS to be an objectivity as well.   Picard clearly understood this.   

And having a more reserved & objective captain is also a good opportunity to let the secondary characters shine as well...

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The captain doesn't have to be bad just busy. On many ships, the first officer does more of the day to day running of the ship. The Captain looks more at the big picture. If the series starts with a Journey to Babel type conference, the captain could be in meeting all day to try to hammer out a treaty. So the camera focuses on the First Officers day.  

The captain could just be one of those 'keeps-the-crew-at-arm's-length' types.   We've seen them before, and we know they exist.   Some are better at maintaining their professional distance than others.  I think Picard tried to be this sort of captain in "Encounter at Farpoint" and other early episodes of S1, but Sir Patrick Stewart's own personal charm and warmth as a human being came through and informed the character (not vice versa).   He warmed up to his senior staff; he wasn't 'buddies' with them as Kirk was, but rather adopting a more paternal vibe.   He would do anything for these people, even if he didn't always wear his feelings on his sleeve. 

So Discovery's captain may be someone who is not good at communicating warmth or feeling to his crew, but is good in the center seat nevertheless.  Personally I look forward to seeing if Fuller, Meyer and the rest of the DSC team can maintain the discipline to keep it a first officer-centric series.   And, as Sim noted upthread, that change alone could be more important than a new ship, or a space station-based format.  

I'd loooooove such a captain again, we haven't really seen many like that ever since Pike and Jean-Luc. (They have a very similar leadership style although Jean-Luc doesn't come with an "omg a woman on my bridge" attitude.) Sisko, Janeway and Archer are all more or less the "I love my crew so much and I show it daily" type. Each in a different way, of course, but they definitely all are more like Kirk in their style. 

The show would DEFINITELY make me interested if it had a grumpy captain who isn't bad at all but simply prefers to keep people at arm's length, even if that captain is NOT the main character. A regular guest character can be just as fascinating (Gul Dukat, anyone). Ah, who am I kidding - I'd probably be all over it. I absolutely ADORE characters like that. 

^
Me, too.

I like the idea of a captain who is a bit more reserved.   My wife had a similar lesson in her almost 20 years of teaching; when she first started out, she tried really hard to be the 'buddy teacher' and she readily admits that was (in her words) "a rookie mistake."   You can't really BE a leader (whether it's managing a store, a courtroom, a classroom or a starship) if you're trying too hard to be everyone's buddy all of the time.   You can be genial, you can be polite, but there HAS to be an objectivity as well.   Picard clearly understood this.   

And having a more reserved & objective captain is also a good opportunity to let the secondary characters shine as well...

I fully support and agree with Jean-Luc's leadership style as well (even when it gets in the way, which it does sometimes, haha). But that probably goes without saying. ;) 

And... both "reserved" captains call their respective first officer "Number One". Maybe Fuller is dropping a hint with his character name revelation...? Maybe only "reserved" captains use this term? Heh.

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The captain doesn't have to be bad just busy. On many ships, the first officer does more of the day to day running of the ship. The Captain looks more at the big picture. If the series starts with a Journey to Babel type conference, the captain could be in meeting all day to try to hammer out a treaty. So the camera focuses on the First Officers day.  

The captain could just be one of those 'keeps-the-crew-at-arm's-length' types.   We've seen them before, and we know they exist.   Some are better at maintaining their professional distance than others.  I think Picard tried to be this sort of captain in "Encounter at Farpoint" and other early episodes of S1, but Sir Patrick Stewart's own personal charm and warmth as a human being came through and informed the character (not vice versa).   He warmed up to his senior staff; he wasn't 'buddies' with them as Kirk was, but rather adopting a more paternal vibe.   He would do anything for these people, even if he didn't always wear his feelings on his sleeve. 

So Discovery's captain may be someone who is not good at communicating warmth or feeling to his crew, but is good in the center seat nevertheless.  Personally I look forward to seeing if Fuller, Meyer and the rest of the DSC team can maintain the discipline to keep it a first officer-centric series.   And, as Sim noted upthread, that change alone could be more important than a new ship, or a space station-based format.  

I'd loooooove such a captain again, we haven't really seen many like that ever since Pike and Jean-Luc. (They have a very similar leadership style although Jean-Luc doesn't come with an "omg a woman on my bridge" attitude.) Sisko, Janeway and Archer are all more or less the "I love my crew so much and I show it daily" type. Each in a different way, of course, but they definitely all are more like Kirk in their style. 

The show would DEFINITELY make me interested if it had a grumpy captain who isn't bad at all but simply prefers to keep people at arm's length, even if that captain is NOT the main character. A regular guest character can be just as fascinating (Gul Dukat, anyone). Ah, who am I kidding - I'd probably be all over it. I absolutely ADORE characters like that. 

^
Me, too.

I like the idea of a captain who is a bit more reserved.   My wife had a similar lesson in her almost 20 years of teaching; when she first started out, she tried really hard to be the 'buddy teacher' and she readily admits that was (in her words) "a rookie mistake."   You can't really BE a leader (whether it's managing a store, a courtroom, a classroom or a starship) if you're trying too hard to be everyone's buddy all of the time.   You can be genial, you can be polite, but there HAS to be an objectivity as well.   Picard clearly understood this.   

And having a more reserved & objective captain is also a good opportunity to let the secondary characters shine as well...

I fully support and agree with Jean-Luc's leadership style as well (even when it gets in the way, which it does sometimes, haha). But that probably goes without saying. ;) 

And... both "reserved" captains call their respective first officer "Number One". Maybe Fuller is dropping a hint with his character name revelation...? Maybe only "reserved" captains use this term? Heh.

Pike and Picard... or maybe it's just captains whose last names begin with 'P'?  :giggle:

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If you read the Hornblower books, or any of the old naval books, the captain was seldom on deck. He was in his cabin reading charts. The story was pushed forward by the other crew. So I agree you don't have to have a bad captain, just one who is off screen a lot. I too like the idea of a grumpy anti social captain.  

[On Picard, to the extent that TNG had an arc it was the difference from Picard when he gave his first cold introduction to Riker and Picard in the final scene with him dealing cards at the poker table wishing that he had joined the game long ago. I often try to pin down what was so great about TNG and it probably has to do with the family of characters more than anything else.]

To Sims point, about solving the captain problem by having the perspective shifted away from the bridge. That could work if it was a lower decks set up, or departmentalized like an engineering team or medical team or science team. But we know the lead is the First Officer. She's going to be on the bridge at the captain's side. And I don't think the show will be mostly about ship life and interpersonal drama, as opposed to the show's namesake of discovery. This show is going to be about exploring but it will also get involved in some heavy duty Federation politics (my guess, based on the TUC references). So if the starship Discovery is primarily about those two missions, its captain will necessarily play a large role in the plot lines.

Maybe that political situation is a moral dilemma for the crew. The captain chooses one way, the first officer the other, and the audience is set up to think that the first officer is right. That would make her the lead.   

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kenman   

If you read the Hornblower books, or any of the old naval books, the captain was seldom on deck. He was in his cabin reading charts. The story was pushed forward by the other crew. So I agree you don't have to have a bad captain, just one who is off screen a lot. I too like the idea of a grumpy anti social captain.  

[On Picard, to the extent that TNG had an arc it was the difference from Picard when he gave his first cold introduction to Riker and Picard in the final scene with him dealing cards at the poker table wishing that he had joined the game long ago. I often try to pin down what was so great about TNG and it probably has to do with the family of characters more than anything else.]

To Sims point, about solving the captain problem by having the perspective shifted away from the bridge. That could work if it was a lower decks set up, or departmentalized like an engineering team or medical team or science team. But we know the lead is the First Officer. She's going to be on the bridge at the captain's side. And I don't think the show will be mostly about ship life and interpersonal drama, as opposed to the show's namesake of discovery. This show is going to be about exploring but it will also get involved in some heavy duty Federation politics (my guess, based on the TUC references). So if the starship Discovery is primarily about those two missions, its captain will necessarily play a large role in the plot lines.

Maybe that political situation is a moral dilemma for the crew. The captain chooses one way, the first officer the other, and the audience is set up to think that the first officer is right. That would make her the lead.   

That's true...Hornblower was clearly still the main character in the books which showed him as Midshipman and a Lieutenant...and they worked perfectly well. I could see this show working from that kind of perspective.

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If you read the Hornblower books, or any of the old naval books, the captain was seldom on deck. He was in his cabin reading charts. The story was pushed forward by the other crew. So I agree you don't have to have a bad captain, just one who is off screen a lot. I too like the idea of a grumpy anti social captain.  

[On Picard, to the extent that TNG had an arc it was the difference from Picard when he gave his first cold introduction to Riker and Picard in the final scene with him dealing cards at the poker table wishing that he had joined the game long ago. I often try to pin down what was so great about TNG and it probably has to do with the family of characters more than anything else.]

To Sims point, about solving the captain problem by having the perspective shifted away from the bridge. That could work if it was a lower decks set up, or departmentalized like an engineering team or medical team or science team. But we know the lead is the First Officer. She's going to be on the bridge at the captain's side. And I don't think the show will be mostly about ship life and interpersonal drama, as opposed to the show's namesake of discovery. This show is going to be about exploring but it will also get involved in some heavy duty Federation politics (my guess, based on the TUC references). So if the starship Discovery is primarily about those two missions, its captain will necessarily play a large role in the plot lines.

Maybe that political situation is a moral dilemma for the crew. The captain chooses one way, the first officer the other, and the audience is set up to think that the first officer is right. That would make her the lead.   

That's true...Hornblower was clearly still the main character in the books which showed him as Midshipman and a Lieutenant...and they worked perfectly well. I could see this show working from that kind of perspective.

^
With Nicholas Meyer aboard, I'm guessing Horatio Hornblower will (again) be a huge influence... 

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Another idea is that the captain is a really good, legendary captain, and Number One looks up to him and wants to do her best to live up to his example. One of the cool aspects of Kirk's character was his self doubt. He could get in his own head about failing, not measuring up to the task of being captain. This came from Hornblower. And it gave Kirk a bit of an edge. Maybe Number One will have the same character dynamic. 

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Maybe they will rework it by May and not make it a prequel.

It seems all of this guessing about Number One might be changed, and might not even be the case anymore. It's such an obscure reference ist seems of fan service more than an actual casting choice. Sure they do that, but if they want to make something new that still is Star Trek they should think outside the box. Yeah like Hollywood would ever do that.

We've had strong first officers, Kira, T'Pol, Number One, as female hero roles. Making it Number One just because she's a girl should not be their reasoning, but rather, is it interesting? Is it compelling beyond being a nod to The Cage/Menagerie? If they can do something with that, like Kira, then okay. Making it the future and they don't have to make it fan service though. 2394 has not been explored. (2017), 2255 we kind of know about, Pike, Garth, etc. 

I too liked some of the Titan novels with the aliens, (like the raptor CMO and the floating lady, and Vale the female 'number one') and New Frontiers with the alien captain, even though his name was an in joke to the author's friends (or relatives) McKenzie and Calhoun. It just doesn't make sense. But it's not canon, No worries.

Make it a good show. Make it Star Trek. They probably have little time to develop everyone it being 13 episodes each season, so making a breakout role might be harder than it looks.

A charismatic actor might 'steal the show' and it would become his or hers, not about the captain. A rising actor might become the breakout. (Not so much Pine or Quinto...but who would have thought...Carl Urban)?

And don't just make him or her have some form of a social hangup. So many shows are about that. It's boring. If he or she has risen to commander of a ship, those things are likely not an issue. An underling crewman maybe has those issues, but if you've come that far in starfleet and are command material, you don't. PSTD though could be interesting, if it's set in 2255. Could be that the commander was in a recent war and had to get back into command. That actually could jell with 'current issues' nicely.

Gender equality though should be treated like in Beyond, where Sulu has a husband. It's just a thing that happened. It's not treated as an issue. (I knew about that scene long ago, hinted before the movie, but could not say).

The captain should not be too distant. Picard was a diplomat. Kirk was a commander. Janeway was a scientist. Sisko was a warrior who faced the Borg and had trauma.

Actually a Sisko type commander would be more interesting. A copy of something we've seen before, not so much.

I like the idea of there being a more lower decks feel, and having them almost be a cobbled together crew.

More to Scenario's point, on alien diversity, I like the idea of the crew many not all being starfleet. Then you can have some of them have dramatic issues. Just don't overdo the issues on the show. Having them all be aliens might be hard on the makeup department. Ha.

And actually who's to say there weren't Suliban or Xindi at Quarks while we weren't looking? I think a Suliban could blend in at Quarks, or even a Xindi reptile.

I know Ent came later, but it could have happened.

I'm guessing part of why they're delaying till May is they have some post trailer stuff to work out, and that a lot of fans disliked it. (I didn't hate it but it was rather lackluster and said very little, except for that clearly MacQuarrie inspired ship, which I liked if they fixed it. TrekYards web site did another version that looked better., Maybe they will listen. They have contacts with Drexler and Probert and the folks from TNG.

They don't have to do nu BSG and shouldn't, nor should they do Renegades, but something like 'prime timeline ship that is not all starfleet' would be fine, and different.

A floating disembodied commander would be silly. I likw you liked Zordon from Power Rangers, but really, that's kind of silly. They're not going to do that.

 

 

Edited by Chimera82405

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