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Locutus   

I just wanted to chime in on one aspect to the Mudd character.  I read some argue that Mudd is backward looking and mysoginistic, and that episodes like "Mudd's Women" seem dated.  I agree on all counts, although I think "Mudd's Women" was more of a reference to the mail order bride industry that emerged on the American frontier in the 1800s than "sex trafficking."  Also, I always got the sense that Mudd fancied himself the "loveable rogue," but no one particularly Kirk and company was really buying it.

That said, perhaps where TOS sent the wrong message about women's rights, Discovery can right the ship.  If a story involving Mudd tackled sex trafficking, for example, with modern progressive sensibility, it could be impactful and meaningful.  I think it could work, and I love the casting choice.  It might even redeem that little piece of backward TOS storytelling.

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Sim   

Yes I'm pretty excited, too. Though not quite as much as back then, when I first heard of TNG, or prior to DS9. Maybe that's simply because I'm older now. Or it is because these days, my tv interests are much more widespread, and there is much more than just Star Trek/SF I watch (I tell myself, even if DSC disappoints, that won't be terrible, because there are several others shows running which I like -- in that case, I'd just place more of my hopes on the new Doctor Who incarnation, for example. Or I'd focus more on the new ST novels).

But yeah, Star Trek is special. It's "in my DNA", as Sehlat coined it. It's definitely much more than "just another cool show". I want it to be good.

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On 4/6/2017 at 9:54 PM, Explorer3 said:

I'm definitely curious about how Star Trek will work on television in 2017. I don't see something like TNG working, to be honest, because I feel that mainstream viewers will reject the idealism at its heart. (Although that's actually one of the reasons why I like it.) The DS9 style is probably the way to go, but even that seems out of place amongst the disturbing, graphic stuff that is so popular these days. Then again, shows like Flash and Supergirl seem to do well, and from what I've seen they seem to have quite a light tone, so I guess it might work.

Yeah - I don't think they'll go too dark with it. They'll probably make it feel a bit more grounded though. And the morality tales will hopefully be done through the crew rather than the lessons through the aliens.

On 4/6/2017 at 11:17 PM, Sehlat Vie said:

^
I'm sincerely hoping that it the case.

I don't know if I could ever truly be 'sick' of ST for good: It's kind of in my DNA at this point (I know... pathetic :P).  But I have gone through times when I'm just a wee bit burned out from it.  Usually a break of a few weeks to a month is enough to get back my Star Trek mojo.  

And yes, new stories, a new ship/crew and a (possibly?) updated format might be just the ticket to make it all seem fresh again. 

 

Well that's poor choice of words on my part. I don't think I'll ever be sick of it either. There is a reason I keep coming back here. :P haha.

On 4/7/2017 at 10:16 PM, kc1966 said:

I hope so.  I probably will give it a try but I sure am not excited like I was when TNG was coming out.

You might be in for a surprise. :D We all might be.

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3 hours ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Gosh Dorn it... that's too bad.  :P

 

 

Well, like the announcements about Sarek and Harry Mudd, it smacks of something conceived of as very deliberately crowd-pleasing.

Was it a cameo, which is why they lowballed the offer? Or something more substantial? I mean, the fanboy in me would like to see Dorn as Worf again, but it's not as if his character wasn't explored in TNG and DS9.

Either way, it seems like chasing former glories, rather than marking out new territory.

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27 minutes ago, Robin Bland said:

 

Well, like the announcements about Sarek and Harry Mudd, it smacks of something conceived of as very deliberately crowd-pleasing.

Was it a cameo, which is why they lowballed the offer? Or something more substantial? I mean, the fanboy in me would like to see Dorn as Worf again, but it's not as if his character wasn't explored in TNG and DS9.

Either way, it seems like chasing former glories, rather than marking out new territory.

Yeah, frankly I'm a bit more excited when I hear tidbits about the new characters.

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I'm glad Dorn turned it down, I don't see how this would have been "cool" in ANY way - this series appears to be doing enough fanboy service with all its Original Series guest character announcements (which I think is a BIG mistake but hey, I don't have to watch the show). He's in a stage play version of Antony and Cleopatra at the moment I believe, so it's not that he's doing badly. I also understand his reasoning - I wouldn't have agreed either if I had been offered so little money. Actors have to pay their bills, just like everyone else.

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19 minutes ago, Mr.Picard said:

I'm glad Dorn turned it down, I don't see how this would have been "cool" in ANY way - this series appears to be doing enough fanboy service with all its Original Series guest character announcements (which I think is a BIG mistake but hey, I don't have to watch the show). He's in a stage play version of Antony and Cleopatra at the moment I believe, so it's not that he's doing badly. I also understand his reasoning - I wouldn't have agreed either if I had been offered so little money. Actors have to pay their bills, just like everyone else.

^
I very much agree that I think the new series might be shooting itself in the foot with all of the TOS characters; this was a mistake that TNG wisely avoided for a long time.  Long enough to become its own thing (a position that became clear by the worldwide reaction to the "Best of Both Worlds" cliffhanger; it was the 'Who Shot J.R?' of Star Trek).

It was only later on, after TNG had established itself, that it began to welcome the parents to the party.

I really think DSC should focus more on establishing itself and its mythos first.  I mean, it's already under the handicap of being a prequel; it really needs to prove itself to be something truly new.   The first officer-focus is an interesting start, but what else?  

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

^
I very much agree that I think the new series might be shooting itself in the foot with all of the TOS characters; this was a mistake that TNG wisely avoided for a long time.  Long enough to become its own thing (a position that became clear by the worldwide reaction to the "Best of Both Worlds" cliffhanger; it was the 'Who Shot J.R?' of Star Trek).

It was only later on, after TNG had established itself, that it began to welcome the parents to the party.

I really think DSC should focus more on establishing itself and its mythos first.  I mean, it's already under the handicap of being a prequel; it really needs to prove itself to be something truly new.   The first officer-focus is an interesting start, but what else?  

 

 

It's not just that they have TOS characters... it's also the fact that they have to re-cast them. This also alienates people. This is the prime timeline, set ten years before TOS, there's no way that either Harry Mudd or Sarek look this different from what they looked on TOS. This might not be irritating to some fans, but to others it is. (I'd be very much among them. I don't like re-casting. Bring in new characters, why this need to mess around with canon characters? I don't WANT to see someone else playing Harry Mudd, I don't CARE what Harry Mudd was doing ten years before TOS, I don't like the character at all, but I do like Sarek and yet I also don't care what HE was doing ten years before TOS.) This kind of thing belongs into the same category of mistakes that ENT made. I don't understand why they make it AGAIN. The fandom made it clear back then that it wants to go FORWARD. Boldly go where no one has gone before, not where we have been already.

And yes, TNG was wise to have McCoy in its pilot episode to hand the series over to the next crew (so, where's the ENT character to hand over the franchise? Are they going to ignore this tradition as well, or...?) but to then wait for QUITE a while to bring in established characters. TNG did have it easier since it's set after TOS, so it was logical for the characters to have aged and the original actors could be brought in. ANOTHER reason why Discovery's prequel idea is BAD BAD BAD - set the show in the future and open spots for guest characters that way. They could have had THREE crews to pick guest characters from - TNG, DS9 and VOY, and I can only speak for TNG, but folks like Marina Sirtis and Jonathan Frakes would be SO up for a guest appearance. But no. It has to be a prequel not because the fans wanted it but because the TOS time frame is the franchise's cash cow these days - but I for one think the fandom's patience can only be stretched SO far. This isn't 1987 - these days there are SO many alternatives to watch, so much other stuff, so many choices. Trekkies focus on other things if they don't like something, stuff like fan films, and as much as CBS tries to suffocate the fan films (Axanar was the perfect excuse to finally do so), they ARE what the fans turn to when canon Trek doesn't please them anymore.

At this point I think the only thing that can salvage this show somewhat concerning its canon mess-ups is if they set it in a third timeline, neither Prime nor JJ.

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I have to admit, even though he turned it down, finding out about the Dorn appearance has made my lukewarm anticipation for DIscovery turn a little more tepid.

It'd be nice to hear something about this show soon that is a genuinely exciting development.

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I know I'm repeating myself, but I really wish it'd been set AFTER the events of of the VGR timeline.  So much opportunity...

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On April 13, 2017 at 9:49 PM, Sehlat Vie said:

I know I'm repeating myself, but I really wish it'd been set AFTER the events of of the VGR timeline.  So much opportunity...

I totally understand this argument: Trek should be forward looking, etc. But from a storytelling perspective, it's not necessary to move forward in canonical time in order to be forward looking. Trek writers need to tell stories that speak to today's issues and that can be done on the Discovery just as well as it can be done on Riker's Titan or the Enterprise J. Now if the new show is pure fan-service and just about paying homage to TOS, then sure that would be unfortunate but I don't think that is what DSC will be (Sarek and Mudd not withstanding).

One of the things I am learning in my re-watch of TOS (which I explore on my podcast) is that show runners make important choices early on about world building that sets the tone for the entire series. TOS felt like a show about the final frontier because all the early episodes cemented the idea that this one little ship was out there in a vast expanse of unexplored space visiting desolate worlds and mysterious aliens. TNG, on the other hand, was much more about politics than exploration because so many of the early episodes (and much of the series) was about Picard having to navigate Federation politics (by the way, while eschewing Kirk's cowboy diplomacy). DS9 tried to mix both of these formulas by dealing with the politics of one solar system in depth and also the unknown frontier of the other side of the wormhole. VOY and ENT tried (successfully or not) to get back to the TOS ideal of exploring the frontier. Suffice to say no one did this better than TOS. Im biased against the last two series and heavily in favor of DS9, so I should have some credibility when I say all three series failed to capture the TOS spirit of exploration. 

All of this to say, DSC will chart its own course. It certainly sounds like it is going more in a political direction than a frontier direction. That is fine with me so long as they take us along on SOME kind of story direction. Human adventures need not go into the future or even out into space to work on Star Trek.     

 

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Sorry Gus, Robin scooped you.

 

~ le sigh ~ 

 

Once again;  PLEASE check and make sure a 'new' article isn't already posted in another forum before reposting it and/or starting a new thread.

Much thanks.

 

 

Now, onto the pic?   Looks like the tricorder and communicator are being kept 'old school'; not sure how that's going to fly in this day and age.  I still remember the stinging snickers that ST Continues' got when they used old TOS tech in "White Iris" (which was screened at a DW convention two years ago; I was sinking a bit in my seat when some of the technology got laughs...).

A minor nit, but we'll see how it plays.  Maybe DSC is going to be more 'fan film' in flavor than its more traditional TV series' predecessors (?).

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Reactions, a summary:

- "This looks like Star Wars!" (Never mind that desert uniforms ARE a thing on Star Trek.)

- "I wanted a picture of the bridge crew, not THIS!"

- "That's ALL?"

- "Why is her name Michael? I still don't understand."

- "This is bad CGI!" (I believe the articles all mention that this was shot on location. lol)

 

In short: People aren't hating on the communicator, they're busy with hating on the uniforms and/or the setting. ;) Personally... I'm actually pleased to see the pre-TOS "Cage" communicator. First thing that stands out for me that I actually like (aside from their choice to cast a British actor as the captain, of course).

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30 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:


Sorry Gus, Robin scooped you.n flavor than its more traditional TV series' predecessors (?).

"I am old....not obsolete." LOL

Yay ! I am a fan of DUNE !

Gus

Edited by GustavoLeao

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13 minutes ago, GustavoLeao said:

"I am old....not obsolete." LOL

Yay ! I am a fan of DUNE !

Gus

Just look before you post, okay? ;)

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Those old school communicators and tricorders really look BIG now... I'm wondering how this blatantly anachronistic tech will work for younger audiences unfamiliar with the show, or are the producers only preaching to the faithful? 

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kenman   
1 hour ago, Sehlat Vie said:


Sorry Gus, Robin scooped you.

 

~ le sigh ~ 

 

Once again;  PLEASE check and make sure a 'new' article isn't already posted in another forum before reposting it and/or starting a new thread.

Much thanks.

 

 

Now, onto the pic?   Looks like the tricorder and communicator are being kept 'old school'; not sure how that's going to fly in this day and age.  I still remember the stinging snickers that ST Continues' got when they used old TOS tech in "White Iris" (which was screened at a DW convention two years ago; I was sinking a bit in my seat when some of the technology got laughs...).

A minor nit, but we'll see how it plays.  Maybe DSC is going to be more 'fan film' in flavor than its more traditional TV series' predecessors (?).

Are you sure the snickering wasn't a nerd excitement giggle at seeing the old school Trek tech they love? 

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10 minutes ago, Sehlat Vie said:

Those old school communicators and tricorders really look BIG now... I'm wondering how this blatantly anachronistic tech will work for younger audiences unfamiliar with the show, or are the producers only preaching to the faithful? 

I haven't seen any of the young folks complain about them yet (to be honest, the only ones complaining and hating at the moment are the old & bitter fans). They know it's a TOS prequel, my guess is that they're expecting the communicators to be like that. Most of the newer fans Abrams brought in have watched TOS by now and loved it. From that point of view, setting Discovery before TOS was a good idea - young people will recognize the communicators. I'd even say they'd have been confused if the communicators HADN'T looked like that. As for new audiences - I doubt there will be much of that (sorry, but I can't see a Star Trek series appealing to a mass audience, Netflix-anywhere-but-in-the-US-and-Canada or not) and those who check it out will probably be most familiar with Kirk's era anyway - it IS the most iconic one - and will therefore probably also expect those communicators.

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2 hours ago, kenman said:

Are you sure the snickering wasn't a nerd excitement giggle at seeing the old school Trek tech they love? 

No, it was all-out laughter at times, especially with the tabulating noises of the computer... I sunk in my seat a bit. 

2 hours ago, Mr.Picard said:

I haven't seen any of the young folks complain about them yet (to be honest, the only ones complaining and hating at the moment are the old & bitter fans). They know it's a TOS prequel, my guess is that they're expecting the communicators to be like that. Most of the newer fans Abrams brought in have watched TOS by now and loved it. From that point of view, setting Discovery before TOS was a good idea - young people will recognize the communicators. I'd even say they'd have been confused if the communicators HADN'T looked like that. As for new audiences - I doubt there will be much of that (sorry, but I can't see a Star Trek series appealing to a mass audience, Netflix-anywhere-but-in-the-US-and-Canada or not) and those who check it out will probably be most familiar with Kirk's era anyway - it IS the most iconic one - and will therefore probably also expect those communicators.

Probably, but I'm wondering if this is a show that is even trying to appeal to a broader audience.   Say what one will about ENT, but at least there was an attempt at compromise...

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