GustavoLeao

Kelvin Timeline and Original Series Timeline Crossover

27 posts in this topic

I might actually check that one out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See...now unlike the Green Lantern crap...this is a more intriguing idea to me.  I'd read this!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm iffy.... depends on the execution.   I really wish the TOS versions of these characters would stop looming over the new versions.   I prefer to think of them as the parents who saw the kids off to college, not the parents who move into their kids' fraternity house...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that the Nu crew has to be seen as every bit as capable as their alt counterparts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is that the Nu crew has to be seen as every bit as capable as their alt counterparts.

******* MINOR SPOILER FOR ST BEYOND *******

 

 

STB was good in that regard because it was the first of the BR ST movies that didn't use the 'crutch' of Ambassador Spock in the story (he is an element to it, but not a player).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup...the cameo in STID was just "Maybe Spock will hold our hands and help us solve the problem."

 

Yeah, no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm iffy.... depends on the execution.   I really wish the TOS versions of these characters would stop looming over the new versions.   I prefer to think of them as the parents who saw the kids off to college, not the parents who move into their kids' fraternity house...

I feel that way for the movies, but seeing the counterparts meet in a comic is like "sure sounds like fun." 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm iffy.... depends on the execution.   I really wish the TOS versions of these characters would stop looming over the new versions.   I prefer to think of them as the parents who saw the kids off to college, not the parents who move into their kids' fraternity house...

I feel that way for the movies, but seeing the counterparts meet in a comic is like "sure sounds like fun." 

I could accept it better in a graphic novel a lot better than I could in the concrete reality of film.   IDW also did a funny alternate take on a gender swapped Enterprise crew with a Captain Jane Kirk and a "Ms. Spock."  Their ship and mission were the same, only the entire crew's genders were swapped.  It was cute.   But if it were the plot of a movie?  Audiences would be screaming at the top of their lungs, I'm sure... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks interesting, I might read it when it comes out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can wait for Shatner KIrk meeting Pine Kirk and going "Who are you, kid ? And why your ship is bigger than mine ???" LOL

Gus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, so I read the first one.  It's hard to judge it without part 2, but part one wasn't really that big of a deal.  SPOILERS....

 

 

 

 

 

You have various members of the crew switching places with their counterparts and they don't know why.  There is some anomaly that both crews are investigating in their respective universes. 

 

It's certainly an interesting concept, but some things made no sense.  Yes, we know they are played by different actors, but why would these characters see different faces?

For artwork and confusion purposes, it makes sense to have Kirk Prime drawn like Shatner and Abrams Kirk drawn like Pine.  But from within the fictional world, there should be no distinction.

A story like this needs to be better though.  If the second part is no longer than the first part, there's not going to be much meat to the story, and it will be a let down.  Read it for free if you can.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, so I read the first one.  It's hard to judge it without part 2, but part one wasn't really that big of a deal.  SPOILERS....

 

 

 

 

 

You have various members of the crew switching places with their counterparts and they don't know why.  There is some anomaly that both crews are investigating in their respective universes. 

 

It's certainly an interesting concept, but some things made no sense.  Yes, we know they are played by different actors, but why would these characters see different faces?

For the reader; that would be my assumption.   It's the author's way of helping the reader keep KT counterparts straight from their PT selves.  The same way Scott Bakula looks like Scott Bakula to the audience on Quantum Leap; so we know it's really "Sam." 

Not to mention that, as I've said before, the younger members of the crew (the ones born after the KT divergence) are not exactly the same people.   Their conceptions would've had to have had the EXACT same spermatozoa hit the EXACT egg of their mother's to make that so.   I could buy that conceit with McCoy, Scotty, Spock and even Kirk (who were born right before or at the point of the Kelvin divergence) but the rest?   Not so much.  They are different people born of the same parents, with common traits.   Variations on a theme. 

If one's mother had waited two hours earlier or later the night of one's predestined conception?  The result would be a slightly different person.   Maybe very similar to the 'original,' but biologically it would be impossible for that person to be the exact same person. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the reader; that would be my assumption.   It's the author's way of helping the reader keep KT counterparts straight from their PT selves.  The same way Scott Bakula looks like Scott Bakula to the audience on Quantum Leap; so we know it's really "Sam." 

For the READER, that makes sense.  But it was actually part of the story.  Kirk Pine recognized Spock Prime as a younger version of the older Spock he met at Delta Vega.

They talked about them having different faces. 

They are SUPPOSED to be the same people--same sperm hitting the same egg, and that would definitely be true for Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty, all of whom were conceived before Nero. 

That's the INTENT. 

So if these aren't the same people, why should we care?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the reader; that would be my assumption.   It's the author's way of helping the reader keep KT counterparts straight from their PT selves.  The same way Scott Bakula looks like Scott Bakula to the audience on Quantum Leap; so we know it's really "Sam." 

For the READER, that makes sense.  But it was actually part of the story.  Kirk Pine recognized Spock Prime as a younger version of the older Spock he met at Delta Vega.

They talked about them having different faces. 

They are SUPPOSED to be the same people--same sperm hitting the same egg, and that would definitely be true for Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty, all of whom were conceived before Nero. 

^
But that is biologically impossible for those people born AFTER the divergence; unless they were miraculously insulated from all of the changes to both the timeline and the Federation.    So they are SIMILAR people, but not the EXACT people.   Variations on a theme.   Close enough in biology and possible early childhoods as to be almost the same.    

As to why we should care?  Well, seeing ST09 and their adventure together made me care for them, that's why. 

They share many of the same traits that made their prime counterparts so beloved, that's why I cared. 

Take Demora Sulu in GEN for example; we, the audience, are told she is Sulu's daughter.  Therefore we care for her a bit more than say, the nameless guy at console #12.   The characters born after the KT divergence in ST09 (namely Sulu, Chekov and Uhura) are not exactly the same people (biology and random chance says so), but they have the names, they come from the same families and they arguably have a shared destiny (somewhat) with their prime counterparts.  

We don't really 'know' them at the start of ST09 like we did their TOS counterparts, so we have to get to know them during the course of the movie.  If the filmmakers did their job well, then we should.   Personally, I was won over.  The new cast had a lot of charm and charisma; it's not hard to see why their careers exploded after the movie (except for Cho, who was already something of a name with "American Pie" and the "Harold & Kumar" comedies).

Therefore, I care to see what happens to them in the sequel because they are close (but not exact) matches of their TOS characters and they are well-played by the actors.  It's the same pact an audience makes with any movie, book, or TV show; we are presented with a group of people and we are told to follow their adventure.    Sometimes we are rewarded for our investment, sometimes we are disappointed.  

But that initial promise of interest is the pact made between audience and entertainer.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are things that we the viewer have to suspend disbelief over.  For example, the mirror universe.  How could history be so divergent, yet the same people exist, on the same ship, but evil counterparts?

 

These are supposed to be the same people, and if it weren't, then they should have used different names.  I don't think for one second they are different.  Spock recognized Kirk instantly, and he also recognized Scotty. 

Spock's ship responded to young Spock, not a sibling. 

 

These are the same people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The two Kirk does not look exactly alike, the same way that the Earth-2 Superman does not looked like Earth-1 Superman who, in turn, does not looked like Post-Crisis Superman

Prime Kirk looks like BIll Shatner and Kelvin Kirk looks like Chris Pine. Thats how the multiverse works and it was actuallly explored in several DC comic books and IDW Star Trek comics.

Gus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Earth 2 Superman is older, and a different species than Earth 1 Superman and Post-Crisis Superman.  They came from different Kryptons that were similar, but not the same.

In Star Trek, these are the same people, and only the AUDIENCE can perceive them as different people.  Yes, we know in the real world the actors changed, but from the perspective of characters, they shouldn't notice a thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree. The IDW comic books actually came with the "they look different" concept years ago, when Roberto Orci was scripting them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree. The IDW comic books actually came with the "they look different" concept years ago, when Roberto Orci was scripting them.

^
This.

And I know we're supposed to suspend disbelief, but for me the story meets the viewer halfway.   Yes, they are similar people, but not exact.  Variations on a theme. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, if that were true, then they wouldn't be genetically the same.  They would at best, be siblings.  Yet Spock's ship responded to Quinto.  Nimoy recognized all the counterparts. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, if that were true, then they wouldn't be genetically the same.  They would at best, be siblings.  Yet Spock's ship responded to Quinto.  Nimoy recognized all the counterparts. 

Because Spock (younger Spock) and Scotty (whom Spock recognizes) were born before the divergence; so they ARE the same.  The rest is suspension of disbelief; you either buy it or you don't, really...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Except that in the COMICS, they were talking also about Kirk and Spock as if they looked different.  I really feel that unless we hear otherwise on screen, these people are the same people we followed physically. Same sperm hitting same egg. 

Any visual distinction is for the viewer, not for the character from within the world. 

It has to be that way, or there is absolutely no point in doing a reboot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Except that in the COMICS, they were talking also about Kirk and Spock as if they looked different.  I really feel that unless we hear otherwise on screen, these people are the same people we followed physically. Same sperm hitting same egg. 

Any visual distinction is for the viewer, not for the character from within the world. 

That's one opinion... not the opinion of IDW (who are licensed by Paramount).  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites